Anti-Gay Church Protests at Funerals, Drawing Counterprotesters

[NNN0LHI]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB2C6RRWCE.html

SMYRNA, Tenn. (AP) - Members of a church say God is punishing American soldiers for defending a country that harbors gays, and they brought their anti-gay message to the funerals Saturday of two Tennessee soldiers killed in Iraq.

The church members were met with scorn from local residents. They chased the church members cars' down a highway, waving flags and screaming "God bless America."

"My husband is over there, so I'm here to show my support," 41-year-old Connie Ditmore said as she waved and American flag and as tears came to her eyes. "To do this at a funeral is disrespectful of a family, no matter what your beliefs are."

The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist in Kansas, contends that American soldiers are being killed in Iraq as vengeance from God for protecting a country that harbors gays. The church, which is not affiliated with a larger denomination, is made up mostly of Phelps' children, grandchildren and in-laws.

[blue sky at night]

1. that last paragraph says it all.........

thank god the only way they can spread their vicious lies and hate is through inbreeding.

[Patchuli]

2. These knuckledraggers have a hellovanerve

calling themselves a "church" of any sort, except the Satanic variety.

A$$holes! :nuke:

[NYC]

3. Phelps ought to be in prison for threatening

to kill the King of Sweden.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Judi Lynn]

5. Anti-gay church protests at funerals, drawing counterprotesters

August 28, 2005 3:09 AM
Anti-gay church protests at funerals, drawing counterprotesters


SMYRNA, Tenn. (AP) - Members of a church say God is punishing American soldiers for defending a country that harbors gays, and they brought their anti-gay message to the funerals Saturday of two Tennessee soldiers killed in Iraq.

The church members were met with scorn from local residents. They chased the church members cars' down a highway, waving flags and screaming "God bless America."

"My husband is over there, so I'm here to show my support," 41-year-old Connie Ditmore said as she waved an American flag and as tears came to her eyes. "To do this at a funeral is disrespectful of a family, no matter what your beliefs are."

The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist in Kansas, contends that American soldiers are being killed in Iraq as vengeance from God for protecting a country that harbors gays. The church, which is not affiliated with a larger denomination, is made up mostly of Phelps' children, grandchildren and in-laws.
(snip/...)

http://www.fox23news.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=75DDD578-290A-4B8D-8FE3-466D0AE971F0

[wli]

6. it would be such a relief to be rid of Phelps

Hopefully someone can prosecute him for some form of harassment and get him thrown in jail for it.

[Iris]

20. Or Robertson could make a pronouncement about HIM?

[maddezmom]

7. those signs are very disturbing

why isn't this guy locked up...seems he's incited violence?

[saigon68]

22. Look at how he educates children

[Chipper Chat]

44. Does anyone else see child abuse here?

Where is the welfare department? These kids should be taken away from their parents immediately and placed in foster care for their own safety.

[Judi Lynn]

63. They don't look all that happy in those 2 large photos. Not a bit.

They are unable to deny their consent. Victems, too.

[belle]

66. If nothing else, they must be exhausted. And when the hell do they go

to school? It sounds like PhelpsCo does nothing but race from one hateful protest to the next.

[belle]

65. Oh, I'm sure there's far more blatant abuse there.

If you ever read the unoffical bio of Phelps, "Addicted to Hate" (it's free online, forget the link but you can google), he horrifically abused his own wife and children--emotionally, physically, every way you can think of. I'm sure at least some of that got handed down to the grandkids and greatgrandkids. especially since they're all still living in the same little compound. A couple of the Phelps children got away (they no longer have contact, they were the main sources for the book), and one of them said that they were in a support group for PTSD along with Vietnam vets, and more than one vet said something to the effect that given a choice between their year of hell and the eighteen yeras of hell the Phelpses were describing, they'd take Vietnam, hands down.

[calimary]

41. He is a Domestic Terrorist. And he should be referred to as such.

In fact, we need to epoxy the term "TERRORIST" or "Domestic Terrorist" to this asshole, so that's what comes automatically to people's minds when they hear of him.

If "terrorist" is a bad word and a bad thing, it should be associated directly with this minion of Satan. fred phelps: you are going to go to Hell when you die.

[maveric]

8. We need to stop these assholes. n/t

[Kurovski]

10. Maybe it will come to creating laws around funerals.

Common decency once made such laws unnecessary, but decency grows less common as the Right-Wing gains ascendancy in this nation.

And history shows that always to be the case with Right-Wing movements in every nation, during every era.

[Buns_of_Fire]

13. It probably won't come from laws. It'll probably come from the survivors.

The day will come when he and his Merry Band of Bigots decide to trash the wrong funeral at the wrong time, and the bereaved relatives/friends will decide to take him out*. Eventually, there will be bloodshed, thanks to the "good" :puke: "reverend."

Personally, if I were unfortunate enough to have my son killed in Bush's War, and he showed up at the funeral trying to disrupt it, I'd be the first one in line to have my fingers around his throat, trying my damnedest to choke the life out of the slimy bastard.



* And certainly not in the sense that Pat Robertson would like everyone to think he meant by "taking him out."

[frankly_fedup2]

17. I wonder why other churches do not condemn "publicly" this kind of

stupid insensitivity using the name of Christianity for their own bigoted agendas like most everyone in this country calls for the Muslim leaders to come out against terrorist attacks.

Of course, no one was murdered (in Tennessee that is. Those soldiers were murdered though) due to these stupid protests, but like you said one day they are going to push their bullshit to the wrong people.

They have a right to free speech . . . or do they . . . do we?

Whenever Bush has a public speech, his secret service clear the crowd to make sure there are no anti-Bush people in the crowd. Plus, don't they make sure they are not even within hearing distance if they are protesting? That's not free speech.

OMG, I almost forgot, Bush and his cronies wipe their butts with the Constitution, it means nothing to them. They follow their Patriot Act and the principles of PNAC. Oh yeah, they use Christianity and twist it when they feel it fits their agendas.

I can now understand how the Muslim's feel about their religion being hijacked by a bunch of extremists.

[FourStarDemocrat]

62. I would too, and would not think twice about knocking them all off..

except for their kids. So, it's a good thing that I don't possess a weapon, heh.

[belle]

67. I think there should be laws, too. Protest, whatever, but do it somewhere

that doesn't force the attendees to be exposed to your hate. It's just beyond vile.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. The hideous Mr. Phelps has the right to spew his hatred

in public. That is what free speech is all about. These nutcases have been around forever and hopefully they will continue to be able to exercise their right to utter vile idiocy.

What is wrong here is the media attention given to Mr. Phelps and his Church of the Phelps Family. You have to read to the end of the article to figure out (as it is only implied) that this isn't a church, this is Fred and his family.

[Kurovski]

31. Yes, but he is infringing on other's privacy.

There must certainly be a constitutionally sound law waiting to be created by finer minds than mine.

I know there are many things we can not do in public when we protest.
We don't just do whatever we want.

If you can't fuck in public to protest sexual repression because of decency statutes, or whatever, why can't anything like that be made to apply to this brand of indecency?

If you think like the Phelch folks do, then a president's funeral is the perfect time to protest. And I mean right outside the church door.

Maybe it's time for the press to completely ignore these folks, save for the following:

Perhaps there is a story for an investigative reporter or better yet, a newspaper, in the investigation of Phelps' finances. Most of all, WHERE the financing comes from.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. You don't have privacy in a public space.

If the funeral service was on private property then of course the property owners can eject the idiot and/or have him arrested for trespassing. On the other hand if the idiot is out on the sidewalk - that is his right.

"If you can't fuck in public to protest sexual repression because of decency statutes" - hmmm... extending freedom speech to sex acts is a bit of a stretch. That is a different discussion. Mr. Phelps is not performing indecent acts, he is inarguably exercising his freedom of speech. I'm sure you understand that it is of course OBJECTIONABLE speech that is and was intended to be protected by the 1st amendment.

[Kurovski]

39. *sigh* Yes, I do understand. And you are correct.

A funeral is such a private, deeply felt event. It's so hideous, truly monstrous that anyone would think to do this. And to what purpose? To promote and encourage yet more hate. Well, God bless America.

On a lighter note, I think fucking as a form of freedom of speech is less of a stretch than saying money is a form of speech to be protected, after all, not everyone has money. ;-)

[Warren Stupidity]

47. So actually I think the idiot Phelps

does more to help the side of tolerance and strengthens support for keeping this a secular republic rather than a theocracy. People who might otherwise not support equal rights for gay folks are confronted with this vile lunatic. I'm thinking that at least one person at that funeral changed his position on this issue because of Phelps.

I agree with you about fucking as a form of free speech. One could imagine a society where tolerance and freedom were such that this were so, but the reality is we are headed in the other direction.

[Kurovski]

49. Free speech in action. Its benefit; It all comes out in the wash.

Good points, no, great points you've made here.

Well, exhibitionists rapidly grow tiresome, but I think using fucking as an example served its purpose.

[genieroze]

61. Mr. Phelps is not performing indecent acts? Bullshit, every word out of

his nasty mouth is indecent, he's also inciting a riot which IS illegal.
What's next, weddings, baptisms, a bris, and bar mitzvahs?

[Warren Stupidity]

69. Obviously if we permit the state to shut up the vile Mr. Phelps

then they will turn around and use the same authority to shut you up.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

46. It'll be hard

Since the hate Phelps spews in the public domain isn't too far from what's preached in a lot of seemingly mainstream churches across the nation. I spent most of the 80s attending an independent Baptist church where we were taught that AIDS was a punishment from God, mental illness doesn't really exist, interracial marriage is a sin, the poor are just lazy, etc.

[Kurovski]

9. This is what happens when a nation ignores the mentally ill

and cuts funding for services and education.

But seriously, those folks are beyond the pale and approaching the ends of the stratosphere.

"Thank God for 9/11"? That's a sign you'd expect Halliburton's Dick Cheney to be carting around.

[leesa]

26. Or Bush. Bush basically said the same thing when he laughed and

jubilated that he had "won the trifecta" when 9-11 happened.

[Kurovski]

32. Agreed, with one minor addition:

Bush is Cheney's meat puppet.

[Brightmore]

11. Is that Laura Bush on the sign?

And WTF does he mean by fag pimp???

[Judi Lynn]

12. You know, I think you're right. I could Not imagine whose face that was.

Now it connects to the words is another mystery.

[Prodemsouth]

15. These idiots think Bush and even the Southern Baptist Convention

are "pro-Gay."

[Kurovski]

33. Laura probably has spoken out on AIDS issues.

Maybe she has gay friends. In fact I'll bet she does, George too.

There must be some reason why he chose Laura's and not George's image.

[wickerwoman]

14. We should start organizing protests in front of some of these churches.

Some signs I'd like to see, include:

"It's thou shalt NOT kill, dumbfuck!"

"Vengeance is MINE sayeth the lord."

"Honor thy neighbor, mind thy own damn business" etc. etc.

[Meldread]

16. I didn't see this much outrage...

...when he was protesting gay funerals. You hardly heard about it except through gay media. Now that the gay community, by and large, have decided to ignore him apparently he can't get his attention fix. So now he's focusing on other folks, most likely straight, and now they are crying foul.

It's unfortunate but apparently he has the first amendment right to protest funerals, and there isn't anything anyone can do about it. Even if a law was passed to prohibit such, his ENTIRE family is made up of lawyers and they will fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. Once there it'll be overturned as it will easily be argued that it is against the first amendment.

Personally, I have no problem with having limits to freedom of speech provided those limits are clearly defined. Such as folks don't have the right to propagate hate speech. Unfortunately that law would never see the light of day as it would shut down the last remnants of the KKK, Neo-Nazi's, and most likely 90% of the extreme religious right.

[Kurovski]

37. I recall that the Chicago Tribune has covered Phelps for years.

I recall seeing reports on the local news as well.

Most people are fairly outraged, or disturbed, by doing something like this at any funeral.

Most people are disgusted by such a hideous action, no matter their ideas on homosexuality.

America doesn't have as many sick crackpots as we sometimes imagine it does. Certainly not with this depth of depravity and exhibitionism.

[Vogon_Glory]

18. Watch The Right-Wing Propaganda Organs ReLabel Phelps

Watch the right-wing propaganda organs re-label Fred Phelps, a right-wing extremist who only differs from the rest of the pack in that he doesn't worship the golden calf of "W," as a "liberul."

How many of our deluded fellow-citizens would be stupid enough to buy into such a crock?

[fasttense]

19. I'm glad it was Tennessee folks that showed the nation

how to treat these disrespectful slime.

[Iris]

21. Why didn't the anti-war/pro-Bush folks redirect themselves HERE?

That, I could understand.

[rateyes]

23. IMHO, it will stop when he stops getting press...

he thrives on publicity. Take it away, ignore him, and he blows away like a feather in the wind.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. You are 100% correct

The Topeka press and the KC press ignore him. He is only 60 miles from me and the only time I hear anything about him is here on DU. He picketed a funeral at a church right up the street from me and I had no idea till I read about it here on DU a few weeks later.

[Peace Patriot]

42. The Bush Cartel has unleashed a Pandora's Box of bigotry. Can you

imagine people yielding to such low instincts--and thinking to advertise their gutter-level hatred--in a decently run country?

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. As much as I hate the BFEE,

Phelps has been around since the 70s. He used to be a registered Dem. He was a big contributor to Al Gore and was a guest at Clinton's inauguration in '92.

So we really can't blame the bu$h cartel for creating Fred Phelps.

[Greylyn58]

24. I wish everyone would stop referring to this whack-job

as an Anti-Gay church! He and his "family" are not a church. They are simply a Cult.

As was noted in the article, the only members are his children, grandchildren and in-laws. That's a cult, and the epithet "church" shouldn't be given to him and his family. He has no more to do with God then Jim Jones or David Koresh did.

This dead, dried-up, shell of a man and his family should be put on permanent ignore so they will ultimately shrivel up and blow away. Talking about him or putting him in the news gives this ghoul what he wants---publicity. Take it away and he will go away!!

[warrior1]

27. Pretty Doggy

Aren't these 'americans' terrorist?

[Greylyn58]

30. If they aren't

they damn well should be. IMHO!

[splat@14]

25. This group has been the subject of interest before here on DU and

rightly so. They aren't neocon but are way out there. This group, IMO, is extremely dangerous in the same context as Jones "group suicide" followers and Branch Davidians (sp?). They seem capable of unfathomable lunacy.

Check out their web page for a good scare;


http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/

[anotherdrew]

36. check out their ZIP code! 66601 anyway here's a phone number and PO box

Westboro Baptist Church
P.O. Box 1886
Topeka, KS 66601
US

Domain Name: GODHATESFAGS.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Phelps, Benjamin [e-mail]
PO Box 1886
Topeka, KS 66601
US
785-233-4162

[rodeodance]

29. Church: God Punishing GIs Over Gays

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1074716

Church: God Punishing GIs Over Gays

Anti-Gay Church Demonstrates at Tenn. Funerals for GIs Killed in Iraq, Drawing Counterprotesters

By BETH RUCKER Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press
SMYRNA, Tenn. Aug 28, 2005 — Members of a church say God is punishing American soldiers for defending a country that harbors gays, and they brought their anti-gay message to the funerals Saturday of two Tennessee soldiers killed in Iraq.

The church members were met with scorn from local residents. They chased the church members cars' down a highway, waving flags and screaming "God bless America."

"My husband is over there, so I'm here to show my support," 41-year-old Connie Ditmore said as she waved and American flag and as tears came to her eyes. "To do this at a funeral is disrespectful of a family, no matter what your beliefs are."

The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist in Kansas, contends that American soldiers are being killed in Iraq as vengeance from God for protecting a country that harbors gays. The church, which is not affiliated with a larger denomination, is made up mostly of Phelps' children, grandchildren and in-laws........

[Just Me]

35. Someone really should take out a mental hygiene petition on this,...

,...delusional wacko. He is a danger to himself and the community.

[mbperrin]

38. He has no public speech right to disrupt a funeral.

A movie theater is a public place. Scream out all during the movie, and you will be ejected and ticket not refunded.

Go to a Bush* speech, certainly a public event, wave signs and scream out, and you will be ejected.

Go to any public place, like a high school football game in a public stadium and wave threatening signs and see where you end up.

Free speech in no way gives anyone the right to prevent a public event from proceeding. Please note that no one in Crawford who is propeace claims that they have the right to stop the * caravan from coming and going. Their presence is to work on his conscience and there is no particular event being disrupted there, just a journey hither and thither.

I can assure you that these folks whose loved ones are being dishonored by Phelps, who is patently mentally ill, are much better people than I am. I do not pretend to any religious beliefs at all, and the truth is, if he were to show up at a funeral where I was in attendance, I would collar him, remove him from the area, and beat the hell out of him out of sight and sound of the funeral.

And he and I are not that far apart in age. But I still have some of my humanity, and he doesn't, obviously.

Where DOES he get the $$$$$$$$$$$$ to do what he does? Find THAT, and you find his protection.

[Kurovski]

40. Actually, I've just nominated this thread for greatest page

in the hopes that it is seen by some fine News folk who might feel inclined to investigate that very thing.

Only a few hours left for recommendations.

[mbperrin]

45. I just did the same! Thanks!

Here's hoping!

[Warren Stupidity]

52. Fire in theater not applicable.

The theory behind the limit on free speech iconified by 'you can't yell fire in a crowded theater' is that the speech in this case (assuming that there is no fire) would present a clear danger to public safety. Also note that the theater is private property and thus the theater owners can of course remove patrons they deem disruptive.

Protests in truly public places are another matter. You give two examples: a high school football game and the Crawford Coward's public appearances. In both cases the suppression of peaceful protest would be dubious. The fact that free speech has been routinely suppressed around The Coward is an outrage, not a good example at all of appropriate restrictions. The suppression of protest at a public sports event is equally dubious, especially as people routinely display signs at sports events. Hopefully the courts would not agree that this sign is permitted but that one is not because of content, as that would be a clear and obvious suppression of political speech, exactly the sort of state action that the 1st amendment is supposed to prohibit.

[Zorro]

43. Phelps runs a risk doing this in Tennessee

There's a distinct possibility he and his family might experience a revelation from and by the buckle of the Bible Belt.

[splat@14]

48. Does anyone know if this church enjoys tax free status?

[Princess Turandot]

51. Pity they did not come to NYC for the funeral of the NYPD reservist..

truly a pity. At a minimum, the bagpipers would have drowned out anything they were yelling, including calls for assistance.

[Kurovski]

53. I think NYC scares them. They usually hit suburbs and such

--places where a crowd won't rapidly amass to kick their ass.

But that is merely my impression based on past readings. They may well have been in Manhattan.

[PaganPreacher]

55. I spoke at a soldier's funeral a few weeks ago......

and Phred Phelps' Phreaks were outside the church. It upset the family of the soldier very badly, which was the Phreaks' intention. I didn't acknowledge them in the service, but the Christian pastor did, indirectly; he condemned them in the sweetest words I have ever heard used to consign people to hell, without mentioning them directly.

Two bright spots were the presence of the counter-protesters from the Combat Veterans Riders Association bikers, and the VFW (including the state commander). Great guys, and I was proud to shake their hands. I may just join the VFW and take some time to go to a few funerals (I don't own a motorcycle, so joining the bikers is out).

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[howmad1]

56. Hmmmm......

....wonder if the whole friggin family are registered rethuglicans? Ya think?
}(

[PaganPreacher]

60. No, they're Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev._Fred_Phelps

Phred Phelps ran for the office of Governor of Kansas no less than three times, as a Democrat.

Phred Phelps was a floor delegate for Al Gore to the 1988 Democratic National Convention.



(Photo taken inside the Phelps home)

Granddaughter Jael Phelps, who ran for Topeka City Council last spring (and came in dead-ass last) is registered as a Democrat.

These assholes fall outside the liberal-conservative spectrum. Liberals, conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, Christians, Pagans, secular people, and good people of all persuasions repudiate Phelps and his message.

The Phreaks are mentally ill and dangerous, the whole damned lot of them.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[FourStarDemocrat]

64. Well, how do ya like that...

I learn something new every day. I agree, they're absolutely insane, the whole family. How did they ever get close enough to Gore for the photo? Something must have gone mighty wrong in the phelp's heads since that time.

[arwalden]

57. Why Do People Follow Him? What Is WRONG With Them? -- FREAKS!!

[belle]

68. More than half of them are his extended family. A built-in cult.

[genieroze]

58. Inbred wackos.

[BrightKnight]

59. Disrupting a funeral should be a crime. -n/t

[Lars39]

70. Wouldn't it be a shame...

if the get a way car couldn't? O8)

[DemBones DemBones]

71. It's quite common for off-duty police to be hired by

funeral directors to direct traffic and lead the funeral procession.

Couldn't these rent-a-cops also have a word with Phred and his Prheaking clan? Tell them to move on down the road?