Sunnis Reject Draft of Iraqi Constitution

[Mark E. Smith]

AP 8/28/05

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi negotiators finished the country's new constitution Sunday without the endorsement of Sunni Arabs who helped prepare it, dealing a blow to the Bush administration and setting the stage for a bitter campaign leading up to an october referendum.

The 15 members of the Sunni panel said they rejected the document because of disagreements over such issues as federalism, Iraq's identity and references to Saddam hussein's Sunni-dominated Baath Party.

Sunni Arab negotiators also said in a joint statement that they had asked the United Nations and Arab league to intervene.

The document, which included last-minute changes aimed at easing Sunni concerns, was read to lawmakers. it was not out to a vote in the assembly, where the Shiite-Kurdish bloc has an overwhelming majority.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Hundreds of millions of dollars, thousands of U.S. casualties, all so the Iraqi people can empower Shiite fundamentalists under the aegis of Iranian-born Grand Ayatollah Ali al Sistani?

Bush has failed America.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. This means the Sunnis will have to be "eliminated", of course.

[Mark E. Smith]

2. My suspicion is that after al Sistani asks the U.S. to leave...

...he will bring in Iranian forces to do the job of eradicating the Sunnis.

Civil war? Hell, this could get Biblical.

[MadisonProgressive]

14. The Sunnis are in the vast majority in the Middle East

Trying to "get rid of them" would not be a great idea.

[enigma000]

17. That is correct

I would agree MadisonProgressive - any attempt by the Iraqi Shiites, allied with Iran, to escalate the conflict with the Sunni Arab population to a point of open civil war would lead to other Sunni populated nations (Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt) to come to the aid of their Sunni and Arab brethren. That would be a general middle east war.

However al Sistani has never shown any intent of taking such an action and I like to believe a religious man of his stature would not start a religious crusade involving mass-murder.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6920460/site/newsweek/

[MadisonProgressive]

28. I like to believe that too!

[PurityOfEssence]

16. The Saudis are gonna love that...

It's an incredible balancing act when you think of it. Although they're only somewhere around 20% of the country and live where there's no oil, Sunnis are well over 80% of Muslims, and the Wahabbis next door aren't going to take kindly to us stomping on their brothers. Meanwhile, we have this Kurdish problem: if they get too uppity, Turkey and Iran are going to have a thing or three to say. (Syria'd like to too, but they're justifiably scared to death of us at the moment...)

If there was ever a part of the world that called for deft and intelligent handling, this is it. Sadly, though, we're run by a bunch of tone-deaf neo-con thugs who think the world is black and white because they've never bothered to even examine other cultures. Our Secretary of State is an expert on a country that hasn't even existed for 15 years.

I just wonder when the Saudis are going to yank Junior's chain about all this.

[nankerphelge]

3. In defense of the administration...

They always told us that the goal in Iraq was to spend hundreds of millions of dollars, and have thousands of U.S. casualties, so that the Iraqi people can empower Shiite fundamentalists under the aegis of Iranian-born Grand Ayatollah Ali al Sistani. Oh wait a minute... maybe I'm not remembering that correctly.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. You were reading between the lines... Reading the invisible writing.

[Prodemsouth]

5. LOL, that sound like something the news reporter(-uhh name

escapes me) from the Daily Show would say.

[cal04]

6. Iraq delegates reject 'US' constitution

A SUNNI Arab delegate on the committee drafting Iraq's constitution said all his colleagues on the panel objected to a draft presented to parliament overnight and would campaign against it in an October referendum.

"We have not agreed on this constitution. We have objections which are the same as we had from day one," Hussein al-Falluji said, saying he was speaking for all Sunni delegates and denying suggestions the group was split.

"If there is no forging of the results, I believe the people will say "No" to the American constitution," he said, in reference to an expected referendum in October.

"This is an American constitution and we will not accept it no matter what," he said. Referring to French and Dutch referendums this year that sank a draft constitution for the European Union, he said: "The Iraqi people will be the third after the French and Dutch to say 'No' to a constitution."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16416217%255E1702,00.html

[napi21]

7. I wish the MSM would get their stories traight on this!

I watched MTP and some female reporter in Iraq said about 5 of the Suni members agreed with this ammended constitution, on FTN they said the members adjourned without signing anything, but they were going to meet tomorrow and are still hoping the majority of Suni's will sign, and on This Week, George said there were no Suni's who agreed, and Biden said he heard there was some newer info that some had.

And they wonder why the American people are confused??????

[Mark E. Smith]

8. The confusion of the American people will dissipate

... when all hell breaks loose over this. I fear for our people over in Iraq more than ever.

[rodeodance]

9. oh, but Bush is going to set us all straight in a news conference. coming

up within an hour.

[rodeodance]

10. bush will once again tag it to 9/11--

[Zhade]

26. Sure - if Americans even KNOW all hell breaks loose.

We live in a country where a shocking percentage of people think Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - unless more and more people turn to the internet and thus foreign news services, it'll take a long time for them to notice.

[pfitz59]

11. What a surprise!

NOT! Condi assured Boy George that all was well. (Just like Kevin Bacon in "Animal House"!)

[Eloriel]

12. A billion a week $$$$ n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

13. Perhaps the Iraqis are more advanced than Americans

It took the US over eighty years after the adoption of the Constitution to go to civil war.

Iraqis are going to civil war before the ink is dry on theirs.

This is a much the fault of Bush and his advisers as it is of any recalcitrant Iraqis. In order to claim another mission accomplished, Bush wanted that constitution done in the worst way and that's how it's been done.

[enigma000]

15. Its up to the Iraqi people now.

Now it gets interesting. The campaigning for and against the new constitution will be very interesting to watch. The constitution will be discussed, dissected, analyzed and scrutinized. You can bet there will be demonstrations both for and against it.

As for the Sunnis, their "leaders" may have rejected this constitution but the question is: will they act like compliant "sheepeople" and do as their slave-masters command or will they think for themselves.

In fairness, if they reject the constitution in October, that's not a disaster because then they have the opportunity to try again, this time with elected Sunni officials.

[IndianaGreen]

18. How can it be up to Iraqis when they live under the US jackboot?

The drafters of the constitution were living in the safety of the heavily fortified Green Zone, getting three square meals a day, while outside the Iraqi people suffers.

This constitution strips away rights that women have enjoyed in Iraq for decades. It should be defeated on just those basis!

Civil war is now highly possible...

Iraq takes yet another step closer to civil war

A deal on a new constitution was announced and greeted with joy by the Shias yesterday, but the rejoicing was premature - the Sunnis still say no

Rory Carroll in Baghdad, Peter Beaumont in London and Paul Harris in Washington
Sunday August 28, 2005
The Observer

As last week wore on, however, it was clear that the Sunnis were growing angrier, claiming they had been sidelined while Kurds and Shias cooked up a deal that would be presented as a fait accompli. Exasperated by yet another rumour about consensus, one Sunni, Hussein al-Falluji, said it was quite simple: 'They hate us and we hate them.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1557954,00.html

[enigma000]

19. civil war after the referendum

I agree, this is a dangerous time for Iraqi and Iraqis. However, I would argue that a civil war is more likely to escalate AFTER the referendum and not before - if the constitution is approved over Sunni objections or rejected even with the heavy support of the Shia Arabs and Kurds communities.

Iraqis will be able to read this draft constitution, discuss it among themselves and freely vote for or against it, even under an American jackboot. The limitations of American power are for all to see.

[bobbieinok]

31. will women be able to vote?? or do they lose vote after constitution??

[enigma000]

33. I believe they can vote on this draft constitution

Women also, under the proposed constitution, get 25% minimum of the seats in parliament.

Article 151

No less than 25 percent of Council of Deputies seats go to women

http://www.democrats.com/node/5790

[Roland99]

20. But the Propagandist still tried to sell it as good during his press conf.

He should have just talked about Katrina and Louisiana/Mississippi but had to get in his little bit of pro-war propaganda. He's gotta be pissed that this hurricane will steal his limelight.

[rat618]

21. Bush Press Conference

Wasn't at all surprised when at the end of the press conference re:Katrina, Bush spewed his "isn't this wonderful" dribble about the Constitution. He has no shame as this storm has the potential to kill more people than 9/11.

People who don't live in hurricane areas always assume that everyone can just pick up and evacuate, but thousands in the NO area have no means to do anything but to stay and pray. Don't thinks so? Where do you go when the city could get 20 ft or more storm surges and the city sits at below sea level? People will find themselves in their attics trying to stay above the water just as they did after Camille...that is if there shelter survives.

And after the hurricane what about all those National Guard troops who help out? Well if the hurricane shifts to Iraq then they will be able to do something. Leaving US citizens with reduced help after Katrina to justify his vision (or is it his druken haze?) almost borders on criminal.

[Chipper Chat]

22. Bush lives in a parallel universe

where pollyanna abounds. You are perceptive about the indigent population. They have no where to go / no means of transportation / no money / mostly black or hispanic. But hey, they are probably democrats so Dubya couldnt give a rat's ass about them. God, this is going to be a major disaster for the US. Maybe Louis Armstrong in his grave can pick up his horn and start playing "Amazing Grace."
Oh, and welcome to DU rat618.

[Fla4kerry]

23. Bush's lame Iraq speech

Here he fooled all the TV stations again, saying Bush to speak about the dangerous hurricane, he gave it all of 3 sentences right into lying about Iraq..Unbelievable!! So much for the people in La about to loose everything..it's all about him.

[Chipper Chat]

25. His fixation on Iraq is surrealistic.

Can there be a more timely image than "Nero fiddled while Rome burned."

[Zhade]

24. It'll be a campaign, alright...

...a MILITARY campaign.

More death coming. Damn all those who led the Iraqis to this point!

[glendavis77]

27. Hey look at this guys

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1472400/posts

ok they pulled my thread. never mind.
It was about the Iraqi woman who flaunted her blue finger for Bush in the elections. She changed her mind now.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article308604.ece

[BrklynLiberal]

29. Heard about that on the radio yesterday. Somehow it seems she is

disillusioned with the "Democracy" that America has brought to Iraq. She said that while Saddam was not the best friend that women had, they were better off under his regime than they are now, and that women's rights are being dragged back 50 years by the current regime.
Women's rights advocates are being assassinated in Iraq every day.

[The_Casual_Observer]

30. Too much truth for fr?

Welcome to DU!

[bpilgrim]

32. ...as for the Sunnis, "It's hard to identify anything they got"

Knight Ridder

Shiites may benefit from a proposal that gives the biggest say in most matters to the numerical majority.

"The constitution places fairly weak checks on the majority," Brown said....

Islam will have a strong role in Iraqi government. It's the official religion of the state and no law can be passed that contradicts the "undisputed laws" of Islam, according to the constitution. And the Supreme Federal Court, which is given the job of interpreting the constitution, will include Islamic law experts.

"It there are losers, it's secularists, particularly secular and religious minorities," such as the Sunnis, Morrow said.

...

Revenue from oil fields developed in the future will be controlled by regions, said Jonathan Morrow, an adviser to the drafting committee from the United States Institute of Peace, a nonpartisan conflict-resolution group. Regional control helps Kurds in the oil-rich northern part of the country. Shiites who dominate southern Iraq have considerable oil too, but not Sunnis who are in the middle.

_The draft sets a 2007 deadline for settlement of the fate of Kirkuk, the oil-rich northern city that Sunnis, Kurds and Turkmen each claim.

"My guess is they'll get Kirkuk that way," Morrow said, meaning the Kurds.

source...
http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/world/12500977.htm

i know they got 'NO-ONE' to blame but themselves (according to conventional wisdom (M$MWs) but we surely realize that ain't gonna work, cept for the divide and conquer strategy.

how many dem leaders will go along with this strat?

at what point will china, india & russia get more heavily involved... after Iran?

shouldn't we be working to ensure human rights in international law and getting future world powers to sign on, instead of stripping then from proposals (BOLTON) and threating the world with our military and 'diplomatic' aggression?

can we get our leaders to get behind this and actually speak OUT and stand UP for it?

or is it way past time for that kinda optimism :shrug:

BTW: here is an interesting article that sparked this question posted by one of DU's old-timers, Jack Rabbit...

Stagger on, weary Titan

The US is reeling, like imperial Britain after the Boer war - but don't gloat

Timothy Garton Ash in Stanford
Thursday August 25, 2005
The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1555819,00.html

peace