Pope meets Catholic rebel group (Ultra-conservative)

[NNN0LHI]

http://ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2005-08-29_1118138.html

(ANSA) - Vatican City, August 29 - The pope and the head of an ultra-conservative rebel Catholic group agreed on Monday that they should seek an end to the schism that has divided them for 17 years .

Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the renegade Society of St Pius X, met Benedict XVI at the pontiff's summer residence in Castel Gandolfo outside Rome. There was clearly a desire on both sides to avoid the media spotlight .

The Vatican refused to confirm the meeting before it happened and Fellay avoided speaking to journalists, using a side entrance to the pope's residence . snip

Vatican observers said the meeting could be a crucial step towards reconciliation between the Vatican and the Society of St Pius X, which was set up in 1970 and which has about 450 priests worldwide. The Society's late founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, was excommunicated in 1988. He caused a schism in the Catholic Church after he contested the way some of its modernising reforms in the early 1960s had been interpreted and applied .

According to the Society, the Catholic Church has become too liberal in several areas over the last 40 years and risks losing its identity .

[Grandma Hat]

1. Conservative? Or Traditionalist?

I'm not sure I'd want to conflate the terms "Conservative" and "Traditionalist."

In the USA, "Conservative" has strong political connotations including pro-Iran-war, pro-nuclear-arms, relaxation of ethical rules on detention and torture, pro-death-penalty, pro-free-market or laissez-faire economics, etc.

Not one of these would be a "traditionalist" Catholic position. Traditionalist Catholics would be rather strict on the rules of "JUst War" (and both John Paul II and Benedict XVI took VERY strong anti-war positions)---anti nuclear arms (Vatican II called counter-city bombing --- like at Hiroshima -- murder), anti-torture and anti-death penalty, very sceptical of laissez-faire economics, etc.

Conservative is one thing. Traditionalist is quite another. This is a useful distinction!

[CatholicEdHead]

9. How about "pre-traditionalist"

SSPX is like the second poster said, living in the "Catholic utopia" of pre-Vatican II. These people hold onto the myth that that part of the Catholic Church's dogma should be held onto beyond all else. While they often consider it to be the "true" mass, they are only just stuck in the traditions of the 1800's.

If you think they are bad on other Catholics, try being a non-Catholic (espically Protostant).

http://www.sspx.org/catholicfaqs.html

Here is a link to their only US Seminary (they have two others) in southeast Minnesota:
http://www.stas.org/

http://www.sspx.org/links.html

[SharonAnn]

13. Church now so conservative that there's no long a need for schism.

[CatholicEdHead]

15. True, some parts are going back towards the SSPX dogma

but that is still a small part of the US Church. There are still many moderates and liberals in the church who are not going away anytime soon. The church has gone through cycles like this in the past centuries, espically the 1800's-early 1900's.

For every SSPX there is a Call to Action, or for every Opus Dei there is a Pax Christi.

[JVS]

14. How about reactionary?

Pius X was beyond traditionalist. When you set up a secret network of informants against "modernists", you've gone beyond traditional.

[napi21]

2. I never heard of this group before, but I think I attended one of their

Sunday Masses several years ago.

I was in the process of relocating to San Antonio, and getting to know the city. I looked in the phone book and found one church that still did their mass in Latin. Since that's what I had grown up with, I decided to attend one of their Masses. YEEEEEOOOWWWW! Was I surprised!

At first, it was like stepping back in time about 35 years or so, and everyone stared at me because I had dress slacks on and a tailored jacket. I guess I should have realized, WOMEN should always wear skirts!

Then, because It had been so long, I forget that I was supposed to wear a head cover. A scarf, a hat, or something! Well, I didn't, and boy did I get the glares!

What shocked me the most was when the priest had his sermon, and said all those other Catholics out there who had stopped saying the Latin Mass, and (OH MY GOD!) some even play guitars during mass instead of an organ, were all going directly to HELL!!!

Needless to say, I never returned to that little church. I wonder if it is part of this Society of St Pius X?

[Grandma Hat]

3. Hope not! Probably Sedevacantists

I hope it wan't SSPX (Society of St. Pius X). Sounds to me like one of the tinier break-off groups that beleve that there hasn't been a valif Pope since the early 1960's. There are some out there who believe that JohnXXIII (or maybe Paul VI) was kidnapped and replaced by a body double by some very clever conspirators. They tend to be --- in my opinion --- fairly whacky.

SSPX-ers would maybe give you a funny look, but I don't (ahem) think that a SSPX priest wiuld say trousered unveiled females and liturgical guitarists are goin to hell!

[hunter]

5. I think we should turn this into a Mel Gibson thread, "Grandma Hat..."

You wanna rumble?

[SharonAnn]

12. Or an Opus Dei church

[hunter]

4. There is quite a bit of "identity" in the Church that needs to be lost...

There are still too many rotten apples in our basket.

Sadly, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was one of these rotten apples. In my opinion fascism is just another way of molesting children.

But there is hope in this world. I wasn't barred from Mass yesterday, and I don't expect I will be anytime soon.

The Church will evolve, at a snail's pace, but it will evolve.

Our Good Lord has all the time in the world.

[MisterP]

6. Lefebvrists!

Dan Brown has a sequel to write

[Xithras]

7. I've always found the SSPX churches to be quaint.

Personally, I prefer the latin mass...it imbues the church with a sense of history that is lost in the English translation. When I hear a latin mass and realize that my ancestors heard and spoke these exact same words a millenia ago, it creates a connection.

Of course, they'd have tossed me out on my ear if they'd known I was bi :)

[Lefty48197]

10. You mean bi-lingual right?

:evilgrin:

[FlemingsGhost]

8. How accepting of pedophilia is the "Society?" (n/t)

Flem.

[Lefty48197]

11. I can think of a couple of other schism's that I'd like the Pope to workon

.