NYT -- Wal-Mart, Driving Workers and Supermarkets Crazy

[Bozita]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/19/weekinreview/19GREE.html


October 19, 2003

Wal-Mart, Driving Workers and Supermarkets Crazy

By STEVEN GREENHOUSE


-snip-

Another big factor is Wal-Mart's relatively low wages. Its sales clerks average about $8.50 an hour, or about $14,000 a year, while the poverty line for a family of three is $15,060. In California, the unionized stockers and clerks average $17.90 an hour after two years on the job. Mr. Flickinger said wages and benefits for Wal-Mart's full-time workers average $10 to $14 per hour less than for unionized supermarket workers.

"The strike out here involves workers who enjoy decent wages, vacations and health benefits," said Kent Wong, director of the Center for Labor Research and Education at the University of California at Los Angeles. "These things were taken for granted, they made them part of the middle class, but now these workers are threatened with having these things taken away."

A big savings for Wal-Mart comes in health care, where Wal-Mart pays 30 percent less for coverage for each insured worker than the industry average. An estimated 40 percent of employees are not covered by its health plan because many cannot afford the premiums or have not worked at Wal-Mart long enough to qualify.

"What this means is, if I'm a Wal-Mart employee and I hurt my hand and go to the emergency room, who's going to pay for it? The taxpayer is," said Mr. Brown, the supermarket executive. "Wal-Mart's fringe benefits are being paid by taxpayers."

more...

-snip-

[Lindacooks]

1. I will not shop at that store.

Period.

[kalian]

19. I haven't for 1.5 years....

and I am DAMNED PROUD to be boycotting that POS store.

[Mountainman]

2. I'm 57 and at times I'm glad. I don't know what younger people will do.

Companies keep driving down wages, cutting benefits and sending jobs overseas. What happens when full employment means 12% unemployment? And the rethugs are driving up the deficit so medicare and social security will be memories.

I think that I would not want to live in the brave new world of our grandchildren.

[alexwcovington]

3. It is important

To effect change while you can. Me, I'll be around at least another 60 years. But that doesn't mean you should leave all the work to me :P

[StClone]

4. The Thing is

There is still plenty of wealth, just a distribution problem. Kinda like the old U.S.S.R cabbage, wheat and potato harvest.

"Mr. Bush tear down that gated community wall."

[Bozita]

13. "What will we tell the children?" ... about career preparation

Medicine, law, or business school. Anything else?

Where else will they find careers that allow them to afford decent housing, medical care, food?

Manufacturing jobs are fleeing overseas. Information technology jobs are on the same road.

What do you tell an incoming high school freshman?

[CheshireCat]

33. I'm 51 and feel that young people today are screwed

I have no idea how they will get by. I feel so bad for my nephews and nieces. They are facing a tough future.

[david_vincent]

47. On the other hand...

many countries have points-based immigration programs and the rules are set up so that the younger the applicant, the more points they get on that count. Someone who is under 30 and otherwise qualified will find it easier to get into another country of his/her choice than an applicant who is in other respects equally qualified, but older.

[SharonAnn]

59. I feel bad for the younger generation until I remember, they're

voting for this stuff and supporting the looting of the American middle-class.

It's very disapointing to me to see their belief that you can cut taxes, hold schools accountable, make people get their own health care, eliminate unions, and still have a decent society.

They'll probably find out but I wonder if they'll realize their part in all of it?

P.S. I know that there are those who vote Democratic but lots of the ones I talk to are voting Radical Republican.

[Jackpine Radical]

41. The kids had better wake up, get off their asses,

turn off the goddam MTV, find other sources of information besides Leno and Letterman, develop some kind of a sense of responsibility, and join us in the fight if they want any chance at a decent life. I've been fighting for liberal and radical causes ever since I got back from Vietnam, and at this point I'm doing it purely for the next generation, but the battle is getting old and so am I. The time will come when I have to sit down and rest, and they had better be ready to pick it up.

I look at the county Dem meetings, at the Dean meetups, at the Women in Black and other peaceworkers, and I see mostly old, gray (in my case bald) heads. Not entirtely, but mostly. How do we involve the people we're trying to protect? Do they care? Does any of what people llike me have done in the past 35 years matter?

[PlanetBev]

43. I'm with you, Mountainman

Turning 53 next month is looking better and better. I remember America when journalists did their job before we had a 24 hours tabloid news cycle and when you didn' have to die of embarrasment when your President went overseas. Now all fading memories.

[RandomKoolzip]

5. I don't think this is LBN, guys...

But anyways, yes, Wal-mart is evil. Hopefully this information getting into a mainstream media oragn like the NYT will shake some people up...add the striking supermarket workers to the mix...and voila! Living wage! (Well, a guy can dream, right?)

[benddem]

6. Don't shop there

and convince 100 other people not to either. Walmart put my store out of business. These are really mean nasty people.;(

[karlschneider]

14. They have no competition here (Wagoner county, OK) the nearest other

grocery store is 30 miles away. :grr:
If I have other reasons to go to Tulsa I will shop for groc. there but it's just too much hassle generally. They drove the only other store (Homeland) out of business, then leased the empty bldg. for 5 years so nobody like Save-a-lot could move in. Despicable bastards. But since they're one of the few remaining large employers left in this area...well, you get the picture.
:-(

[bluestateguy]

7. I have not shopped at Wal-Mart in over a year

I am willing to pay a little more somewhere else.

[tom_paine]

16. I have not shopped at Wal-Mart in more than 8 years

I never liked the. I saw (at least some of) what they were up to years ago.

Now they turned out to be worse and up to more than what I first thought.

[barbaraann]

8. Here's a great way to support small businesses:

www.holidaygiftshows.com

I'm going to the one in Tacoma this week.

[MaineDem]

9. These are important facts!

Good article!

I haven't shopped t WalMart for years. Irefuse to even set foot inside their store. I cringe when people say they're off to WM/Sam's but sometimes it's not appropriate to educate them at the time. I wish people could see how bad that corporation is to so many people.

[DuctapeFatwa]

10. That $8.50 will be dropping fast

As more tech jobs are outsourced, empowering American workers to lower their hourly wage expectations to a more globally competitive rate, once the savings accounts are gone, the credit cards maxxed out, the house sold and proceeds spent, those Wal-Mart jobs, even when they drop to minimum, will start to look a lot better!

[Ernesto]

11. Hold it right there! Sam Walton is a HERO

He was awarded the highest US civilian decoration possible, the "Presidential Medal of Freedom". He received it from St. Ronnie, himself, on March 17, 1991 ....... It seems Mr. Walton was a pioneer @ not providing a living wage or health insurance for millions of workers. He was also a "great leader" in the field of exporting US manufacturing jobs............ I PISS ON HIS GRAVE!

[Mika]

20. Bill Clinton loved Walmart

Didn't Bill C call Walmart a new American business model?

[demdave]

24. I know Hillary was on the board of Wal-Mart for 6 years,

maybe that is why she does book signings there, but I never heard Bill say that. Do you have a link? Thanks

[dax]

36. Bush calls it the model and his commission is using it to redo the PO

On one of his many vacations, Bush visitted a WalMart with Elaine Chao, the anti-union labor secretary who is married to a Repuke Senator or Congressman who's name I have forgotten. Any way he(Bush) wanted to thank WalMart for providing the kinds of jobs America needs and Ms Chao held up the price tag on a washer made in China for some low price and said "this is real competition American workers are going to have to take notice!

Then one of my Postal Supervisors informed me that the Postal Commission appointed by Bush is comparing Postal Jobs (including supervisors) to jobs at WalMart to determine what our pay scale should really be. Now you may not get the full significance of this but next to WalMart, the Post Office is the largest Employer and if they bust it up and decimate its unions, the rest of the workers in this country will have no security wall, we will become the Palestinians begging for permission to work for food. Organizing WalMart a central focus of the Labor Movement now but like the old cartoon (I forgot to have CHILDREN) they forgot to organize for so long people are ignorant and don't know how and why to support unions. WalMart spends MORE than the cost of health care hiring attorneys and union busters to remove any possibility that a union could win. In Las Vegas (a strong union town) the WalMart shut down and left when the union won. They really are fascists and their leadership is now in power-going after the air traffic controllers again as well so much for fatherland security...

[Art_from_Ark]

52. She's the wife of a Repup senator from KY

Mitch McConnell

[Recordhound]

38. Wal Mart?

Mr. Walton has created jobs for millions of people worldwide, through a vast superstructure of buying and distribution. In many communities, a new Wal Mart is welcomed as providing jobs for people. In the free-market system in which we live, businesses are constantly clawing each other. That's just the way it is.

So tell me, Ernesto, how many jobs have YOU created lately?

[dax]

42. suspicious first post, recordhound-you work for low wages/no benefits?

If you have ever lived BELOW THE POVERTY LINE and actually tried to choose between medicine for the baby, heat, phone, gas for the car or food for the older children-maybe you might have some basis to praise Sam Walton for building a security fence around his employees to keep wages down in his little bantulands. This is the kind of corporate toadyism that is destroying the so-called "freedom" we say we are fighting for. On Walton's payroll, you would have to fight for your very LIFE. No one has come up with the mortality rates of WalMart employees, but I could bet they are dying younger without health care and adequate basic necessities at an age equivalent to farmworkers, or maybe the workers in chinese sweatshops who make the stuff!

[david_vincent]

49. Yes, recordhound seems to be having difficulty

in distinguishing a job worth having from a job at Walmart. It seems to be a common failing among Republicans to be unable to distinguish one type of job from another, as if all "jobs" are identically worthwhile, fulfilling, and remunerative. You could take this sort of approach just a little bit further and claim that the slaveholders in the Old South were creating jobs, too, since without them, all of those slaves would have been just left to their own devices, to hunt, fish, pursue cultural activities, and live by their own lights as "savages".
If all jobs are equal - that is, if all jobs allow the worker to live at a decent standard and take his place, chin up, as a member of society - then why don't Denny Hastert and Trent Lott give up their jobs and go to work at Walmart? Oh, I see - Walmart jobs are only for "vicious" or "lazy" people, who should be damn glad to have the chance to help make the Waltons indescribably rich.
Hey, recordhound, have you ever lived in a car while employed full time? I have. It's especially fun in winter. You should try it -- THIS winter. And make it a subcompact; mine was.

[NickB79]

48. And how many small businesses did they put out of business?

Wal-Mart isnt expanding into a vacuum; there were stores in those communities before Wal-Mart came to them. There were many small stores, each employing many people and providing income to other stores and businesses throughout the community. They even paid their employees enough to live on. Wal-Mart's drove most of those small businesses out of business and created a net LOSS of jobs. Mr. Walton has contributed to more job losses than he has to job creation.

You know how Wal-Marts run those small businesses out, which you call the free-market system where its "just the way it is"? When they move into an area, they sell their products at no profit or even a loss until they drive their small competitors to bankrupcy. Since the Wal-Mart corporation has billions to back it up, they can absorb the losses, while an independent businessman or woman can't. When the competitors are crushed, they jack up prices, often ABOVE what the small businesses charged! I personally saw this happen in our community, as did a college friend of mine who's family lost their business when a Wal-Mart moved into town. Free-market system my ass!

Anyone see Alien: Resurrection? One of the scientists asks what "The Company" was that Ripley referred to (the corporation that Ripley worked for that sent her off to be killed by the aliens before she was resurrected 200 yrs later), and the other scientist says "Oh, they were bought out by the Wal-Mart Defense and Bio-weapons Department years ago." Just had to laugh at that.

[revcarol]

51. Our hound seems to have been scared off.

Cut-and-run tactic.

We MUST get single payer health care SOON!!Public hospitals are taking on a tremendous tax burden to support all those who come into the emergency room with severe conditions that could have been treated at a less severe stage or with preventive or ameliorative medication.

Why is WalMart allowed to get away with this s***? Because we don't insist it be UNIONIZED and don't insist on SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE!!

NOW IS THE TIME!! (One of the main reasons I support Kucinich!!)

[mhr]

12. Wal-Mart - Driving America To The Bottom One Worker At a Time

eom

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. Damn. in another 20 years, Walmart will be the equivilant of the

National store.
All your bases now belong to us."

The Repugs keep talking about how important the small businessman is while at the same time they are doing everything in their power to destroy him.

[tom_paine]

17. Customary Bushevik hypocrisy--say one thing do the eaxct opposite

These people make me sick.

[benfranklin1776]

22. Good analogy. This is the old company store phenomenon in reverse.

In the old, pre-union, pre-stringent labor law days, which Junior would like us to return to as soon as possible, the large monopolistic coporations, steel makers and coal mines for example, literally owned the towns in which their workers lived and their governmental structures. The workers bought their goods at ridiculously inflated prices from the company store since there was nowhere else. Not surprisingly given the meager pay and low wages and no competition, the workers were virtual slaves to the corporation. Many workers owed so much to the company store that come paycheck time they received empty pay envelopes.

Virulently anti-worker Wal Mart is gradually returning us to those days. In many areas it comes to town, gets ridiculous tax breaks from local government, drives most local businesses under and then people are forced to work there because there is nowhere else. Once working there they are subjected to low wages, long hours, minimal benefits, all of which conditions are constantly under threat of further deterioration from their already putrid levels. As Wal Mart is the biggest employer in 21 states more and more workers who have nowhere else to turn are being forced to work and shop there. So it is the return of the company store except now the store is both the employer and the seller.

Three things need to happen. Consumers need to shop elsewhere to the extent possible even if it entails some sacrifice, municpalities have to stop giving this hugely profitable corporation a free ride with tax breaks that are discriminatory to local businesses who receive no such benefits and the unions need to penetrate it and organize it.

[Art_from_Ark]

53. Not only that, but most of those miners were paid in scrip

That is, IOUs from the company that were ONLY redeemable at the company store. So even if they wanted to shop somewhere else, they couldn't.

[cyclezealot]

18. That's the reason why I am for Kucinich.

I have been to Wall Marts, maybe three times in my life. I despise that chain. When they refuse to pay workers health benefits, they are really not caring for the health of their workers, but eventually shift their costs to American taxpayers-when workers are eventually found in hospital Emergency rooms. Then the costs shift to either taxpayers, or results in raised hospital costs shifted to those remaining with insurance coverage. Why can not the American people figure this out!!!? It is amazing,really.
Not only the economics of our redicilious system, but the discontent with HMO's and their control over the independence of doctors... I just had shoulder surgery. Took ten weeks of get everything apporoved,meanwhile my shoulder was attrophying.
Poor coverage and redicilious coverage. The cost to our two employers, spouse and myself..About 1500 dollars wasted each month.
What do we get for dual coverage. Well, the extra policy picks up some of the other's deductibles..That is all.Probably what would result,if one of us needs major surgery, them fighting each other to see how much costs one can get out of, and probably costs me more grief,while neither payed nothing..
Also,my policy won't allow me to go to a local doctor. I have to go out of town 15 miles to find a doctor on my plan. Can I use my wifes to find a doctor locally. No. I must use my primary plan for my needs. Then after those guidelines are satisified, then they will fight each other over what each will pay, but an increase in coverage to me is not possible. This is a waste of 1500 dollars a month to the US economy.
The American health system is broke beyond fixing. The only thing that will get us to another system, its complete financial collapse.
The whole system is just *u**e*.
No other candidate other than Kucinich will offer anything but bandaids to get us out of this morass.\
If a candidate does not solve our problems, what good are they.

[ima_sinnic]

21. Waltons richer than Bill Gates yet can't pay a living wage

. . . they control more wealth than many small countries. The greed is obscene, unfathomable. I detest them. I haven't set foot in there except to leave deposits in their toilets for years.

[brainshrub]

29. For 1 billion less, everyone could get a living wage

I read that is each member of the Walton family (five of them) got 1 billion less a year, everyone in the Wal Mart system could get paid ABOUT 40 Grgand w/ full health benefits. (Looking for the link right now)
And for the record, each of these spoiled bratts "earn" about 3 billion a year.
The ubber-rich have no sence of empathy or kindness.

[T Bone]

45. A wal-mart worker with 2 children cannot afford to shop at WalMART

I was told by a couple of women (not DUers not even heavy news watchers) that a single mother of two who worked at WalMart full-time could not afford to buy all her most basic needs for that family at the WalMart !!!!! So word and awareness is SPREADING.

Now, even a fascist like Henry Ford made sure in the early days that his workers could afford to buy his cars. These capitalist pigs won't even let a single mom meet all her needs in-store with the salary they pay. Despicable.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

54. They have such sense. In reverse.

This is the kind of people who'll gladly pay $500 to prevent a single mom to putting her filthy socialist hands in a $100 bill. Class warfare at its finest.

[Bozita]

31. Yeah, and they want to eliminate the estate tax permanently.

America must need its own aristocracy.

BTW, Bill Gates' father was one of the leaders of the movement to leave the "death tax" alone. Not all rich folks are like the Waltons.

[xxqqqzme]

23. I think it was a

bumper sticker - wal-mart...where U can buy plastic crap U don't need real cheap

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

25. Need to organize a few days of a NATIONAL WALMART SICK-OUT

Hell, let's organize the WalMart workers.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

26. Schedule it for the week before Xmas... Flyers, set up a toll free

number, a little newspaper advertising... Maybe a billboard or two?

Nawww. I'm just pipe dreaming.

[brainshrub]

27. If you claim to be a Democrat, stop shopping at Wal Mart.

If you claim to be a vegetarian, don't eat meat.
If you claim to be a Democrat, stop shopping at Wal Mart. That company is evil, evil, evil!!! They symbolize everything wrong with American-style capitalism.

I have been boycotting all things Wal Mart for two years now. It ain't easy, but it can be done.

Every dollar you spend at Wal Mart represents another bullet in the head of a Chinese union leader, or another single-mom who will never earn enough money to spend time with her children, or another mom-and-pop store going broke.

Boycott Wal Mart as if your life as a middle-class American depended on it...because it does.

[Gemini Cat]

28. Walmart is a bane to the world.

So is McDonalds for simular reasons.
As far as Walmart is concerned, don't forget about the exploitation of the Chinese workers and others for Walmart.

I hate Walmart and I hope that I will never have to shop there.

[michaud]

30. i hate walmart

now im not going to say i havent been there in a while, but each and every day i get more and more hardend against them.

obviously i dont like walmart for the reasons said so far.

they built a "super" walmart here in my town about 2 years ago. along with it came a strip mall. what is funny is the stores next to walmart in the strip mall dont make any money. ie they are really never that buzy as seen where the cars are parked. right in front of walmart.

as far as people saying (not the readers in here) that walmart bring economic activity to some extent there is truth. they bring low wage paying jobs every where they go.

thank god my wife now shops at k-mart and thank god we have more choice here than some of the folks have said above.

[MaineDem]

32. Welcome to DU

:hi:

They built a Super WM half an hour from me. It's the only "department store" with an hour's drive. It's sucking the life from all the little shops around (college town). Even my hairdresser, who owns her own shop, fears that the salon in WM will draw customers and employees away. Thankfully, her customers have stayed pretty loyal.

Keep up the good fight. We'll win one every so often. :)

[NashVegas]

34. Wal-Mart "Neighborhood" Grocery Store

One of those just opened about 1/4 mile away from me, in a building that had previously been an Albertsons.

I went in just to check it out when it opened. It looks like it's half-owned by Tyson foods. Cheap prices, hardly any variety. And none of the people I saw shopping there looked like anyone I'd ever seen in the building when it had been Albertsons.

I know it sounds snobby and elitist, but .. the area I live in is comprised of single professionals and lower-middle class families. If redneck Wal-mart patrons want to come shop here, I'm not bothered by that. What I would be bothered about is if the wine stores nearby switch from Stag's Leap to Boonesfarm to accomodate them, or have to move further into the 'burbs as low-end competitors come in, which they will if this Wal-Mart succeeds in becoming an "anchor."

[CheshireCat]

35. Haven't shopped at WalMart in over 10 years

and haven't missed a thing.

Their refusal to sell certain books and records was the last straw with me. The incident concerned a children's book about a little girl who wanted to be president or a ceo. They felt it should have been balanced with her wanting to be a wife and mother.

I have also seen them move into a small town and shut down the Main
Street stores that couldn't under sell them. Their threatment of their employee's were disgusting.

[shanti]

37. i refuse to shop at wally mart

if anyone gets my $$$, target does...

[Isere]

39. Take the pledge

"I will never shop at Wal-Mart."

I read that article this morning and made a solemn vow never to set foot in one of their stores. Up until now California has been Wal-Mart-free. When they do arrive, I will not cross their doorstep. Furthermore, I have torn up my Costco card, even though they are a union shop, or so I am told. I have had it with the impersonal, sterile warehouse experience. Give me real stores in real neighborhoods with real employees who are part of the community.

Just say NO to Wal-Mart!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. WalMart came to the little town where I was teaching

I walked in to look around after it opened to much hype, decided it was just another big store, and walked right back out. I have not entered one of those places since.

The WalMart was the first step in destroying that community's attractive, locally owned downtown. Suddenly, the center of commercial activity moved to the area of the WalMart.

WalMart is a leech that sucks the life out of communities and destroys small businesses that once provided their owners with a middle class lifestyle.

[Pale Blue Dot]

44. Walmart is at the bottom of the house of cards propping up the economy

Think about it:

1) The economy contiues to chug along because low interests rate are keeping the housing market booming;

2) Unlike any other time in our history, these low interests rates are NOT causing major inflation;

3) Walmart enters a market and drives more expensive competitors out of the market because the competitors can't buy in bulk to the degree that Walmart has;

4) What happens when Walmart has saturated the market? Be afraid, be very afraid :scared:

[T Bone]

46. Finn you are going to have to explain number 2

Low interest rates are indicative of deflation, and would never CAUSE inflation. Huge deficits and debts will eventually cause inflation. Defense spending that causes the deficits always leads to inflation at some point.

Can you name a time in our history when low interst rates 'caused' inflation? They will necessarily precede it just by definition, but I think there is no direct causative effect.

Just my nit-picking point for the night.

[Art_from_Ark]

55. The Japanese model, at least, supports your argument

Low rates (practically 0) + deflation

However, if you want to take out a loan from a consumer loan company in Japan, that's another story.

[Mari333]

50. WalMart moved a super center here

and I lost my job at the only decent supermarket we had...wasnt Union wage, but at least I got some bonus pay and OT pay..I sure as hell wont work at WalMart.
Our store closed, and now we have been left with no choices.
I wont go to Wallyworld. I shop in bulk out of town .

[kayell]

56. The small town I lived in successfuly fought off a Wal-mart

despite the collusion of the county council with the mega-corp. It was a long, hard battle. Wal-mart even sued the tiny city of Clemson. From the site established to fight Wal-mart.
http://www.saveclemson.org/

The overwhelming majority of sales tax revenue from a Wal-Mart is not net new. One study shows that 84% of Wal-Mart's sales come from existing local businesses.

Between Wal-Mart's arrival in Iowa in 1983 and 1995, 50% of clothing stores, 30% of hardware stores, 25% of building materials stores, 42% of variety stores, 29% of shoe stores, and 26% of department stores closed.

Researchers who have investigated the impact of a Wal-Mart's entry into a retail market have often found negative effects on the level of employment. One study found that for every job Wal-Mart created, one-and-a-half jobs were lost in other businesses.

Want to keep an eye on the evil corporation?
http://www.walmartwatch.com/

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

57. Exactly Right...

Wal-Mart's fringe benefits are being paid by taxpayers

When somebody tells you that we can't afford a Living Wage in the United States, remind them that we're already paying a Living Wage because taxpayers subsidize low-wage, no-benefit employers like Wal-Mart.

I'm betting the every non-supervisory employee of Wal-Mart, if they have kids, are getting Earned Income Credit, Food Stamps and (depending on where you live) taxpayer supported housing and child care.

[RebelOne]

58. I don't shop at Wal-Mart

and there is one about a mile from my house. The main reason that I don't shop there is because you can't find a parking place unless it's way out in never, never land.

[OldSoldier]

60. Wal-Mart isn't just a threat to small stores

It's a threat to all stores. Every year Home Depot, the second largest retailer in America, gathers all its managers, store manager level and above, in Atlanta for three days of serious training. The first morning is an overview of what the company is going to do in the next year. The first afternoon is "how to fight Wal-Mart." The CEO of the company presents that one--that's how seriously they take it.

Right now, Wal-Mart is the world's largest seller of light bulbs, power tools, paint and garden supplies. Four of any home improvement store's greatest cash cows are light bulbs, power tools, paint and garden supplies. Add to that the lumber departments (yes!) that some Wal-Marts are opening...do you think we're worried? Do you think Lowe's and Menard's are worried?

My favorite Wal-Mart trick: Say your community is targeted by Wal-Mart. Further say your community somehow manages to fight them off. Wal-Mart has been known to go right outside the city limits, where they won't have to pay city taxes, and set up a nice big store. After they manage to run all the small businesses out of business, they then announce that if the city annexes Wal-Mart's property, they'll pull out of the area.