BBC: Shots fired at NG helicopter evacuating Superdome.

[bigworld]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4205074.stm

The evacuation of stranded hurricane victims from New Orleans' Superdome stadium has been suspended after shots were fired at a rescue helicopter.

A spokesman for the Louisiana ambulance service told the BBC the crowd had grown unruly and he was concerned for the safety of his staff.

He said a national guard had been shot, but he had not been seriously injured.

[shapiro]

1. This is ludicrous

Don't these people want help? Why aren't they identifying the criminal element around them? This is serious evidence of a society in decline when people refuse to act like civilized people in an emergency.

[LisaL]

5. What do you propose they do after they identify criminal

element? Considering criminal element is armed and they are not?
:eyes:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BillZBubb]

29. Enjoy your short stay!

[mccoyn]

34. I'd hate to be that national gaurdsmen.

The guy who has to ration out the water (knowing there is not enough to go around) while every person in the stadium has a handgun. That'll make his job easier, because after someone shoots him to get some water someone else will shoot that guy.

[Arkana]

41. Uh, yeah, cause we all know that the idea

of gun control is to take everyone's guns away. :sarcasm:

[uppityperson]

42. Don't Bother Responding-it's gone

[Liberal Isti]

8. That is a good point...

Look how quickly New York came together on 9-11. We were in such a better place as a society at that time. Now, we're disintegrating into a dog-eat-dog country. Lord have mercy on us all. :cry:

[Eloriel]

16. The people in NYC had food and water, weren't trapped in toxic

water knee deep or higher, weren't suffering all that in 90+ degree extremely humid weather, weren't without power and communications, didn't feel the whole rest of the world had abandoned them, had their emergency basically isolated in one spot, AND had adequate emergency and other support in the aftermath. BIG difference.

[NorCalDem]

71. It's hard to act civilized

when you're own government won't recognize you as such...

[bluestateguy]

2. Who would be so sick as to shoot at a resuce helicopter?

n/t

[mom cat]

3. Somebody who is a crack shot...wonder where they were trained.

[mccoyn]

35. Maybe there is some water on that helicopter?

You can't drink gun powder, after all.

[TahitiNut]

39. I don't buy that 'story' for a second.

Supposedly, it was 'reported' that a Chinook was shot at. A military spokesperson was on the tube and his skepticism matches mine. No bullet hole. There's no way anyone on a flying Chinook could hear a 'shot' - Chinooks are LOUD.

There's more bullshit and misinterpretation being spread around than the sewage in the flood waters. CNN played and replayed and replayed a video of a family (black, of course) loading up their SUV with what were obviously (to me) the things a family carries on vacation. When I first saw it, it was in a split screen while the voiceover droned on about looting. That's just one of at least a half dozen videos that were like racial Rohrschach -- 99% eye of the beholder.

[bushisanidiot]

4. The story doesn't make sense at all.. There's no proof that any of

these "stories" are anything other than rumours..

[bluestateguy]

7. You may be right

After 9/11 and on 9/11 there were a lot of urban legends going around. That tends to happen in a chaotic situation when a large segment of the populace is cut off from civilization. Among those I remember from 9/11 were:

1) A car bomb went off at the State Department.

2) Air Force One had been threatened.

3) 8 planes had been hijacked.

4) A man "surfed" down the collapsing World Trade Center building to safety.

[karynnj]

33. That Air Force One had been threatened

was a story perpetuated by the WH to explain the flight to Nebraska - rather than to DC.

[shapiro]

10. So I should not believe the videos of the looting?

Because there are miles of film on it.

[bushisanidiot]

14. Oh, are you saying there is film of the supposed gunman shooting

at the helicopter??

[niceypoo]

44. So, if there isnt footage of the guy shooting it didn´t, happen?

The Natn´l guard is making it up.......right? The gangs want to be able to loot in peace.

[bushisanidiot]

48. Why are you talking about looting? the alleged gunfire that was

heard near the helicopter was an unconfirmed report.. yes, there are people with guns all over the city, but that doesn't mean that every whack story someone comes up with about "gangs" and such is true.

the gunfire near the helicopter could have come from anyone, cops, military personnel, etc.. and it makes NO sense that they would be firing ->AT<- the helicopter.

people should try using their brains a little bit before running off half-cocked over a rumour..

[skypilot]

11. I was just talking to a coworker about that.

At first I accepted all the reports of roaming bands of armed thugs as fact but the more I watch reports on TV without seeing any footage of these armed thugs the more skeptical I get. Maybe I've just missed it. Has anyone else seen footage of these guys?

[quaoar]

12. Maybe these people are just hallucinating, ya think?

Zeuschlag said paramedics were calling him and crying for help because they were so scared of people with guns at the Superdome. He also said that during the night, when a medical evacuation helicopter tried to land at a hospital in the outlying town of Kenner, the pilot reported 100 people were on the landing pad, some with guns.

[skypilot]

13. "Maybe these people are just hallucinating, ya think?"

First of all there's no reason to be all pissy. Second, those are written reports and I specifically asked if anyone had seen footage of these armed thugs. I don't doubt that there are some jerks and criminals out there but I'm not going to accept everything that I read when I can't see it with my own eyes.

[quaoar]

23. Maybe you'd like to accompany the film crew

to go get that footage, maybe walk up to someone looting a hospital or setting fire to a building or raping someone in a feces-covered bathroom at the Superdome.

If you think a TV crew is going to get that close to it, you're nuts. I damn sure wouldn't.

[skypilot]

26. OK, obviously you don't know how to answer...

...a simple question but I'm going to wade through all your snark and sarcasm and assume that the answer to the question I asked is NO--at least where you're concerned. Film crews get footage of dangerous situations all the time. All I asked about was whether any of them had footage of roaming bands of armed gunmen. They could have shot the footage from a distance (from a helicopter maybe). I never asked about footage of looting, arson or raping.:eyes: Get a grip.

[niceypoo]

45. Your position is rediculous

If its not on camera it didn´t happen. Where is the footage of the Manson family doing the killings?

[skypilot]

47. I didn't say it didn't happen.

I'd just like to see any footage at all since reporters keep bringing it up. There's a difference between being skeptical about a report and denying it altogether. You'd do well to learn that difference as well as how to spell "ridiculous".

[bushisanidiot]

49. uh, there was mass evidence of the manson murders

and it's quite laughable you would make that comparison in this situation.

[bushisanidiot]

38. I heard that AWOL Bush was giving Jeff Gannon a blow-

job during his fly-by over N.O...

so where's the press coverage of that?

[High Plains]

59. That's why you're not a journalist

[quaoar]

65. LOL

I am a journalist. Have been for 25 years. I have covered hurricanes. I've been to murder scenes. But I won't wade into anarchy.

Even journalists know when to exercise a little common sense.

[Sterling]

He meant good journalist, I think.

A good one gets the story, period. I know they don't make many of those anymore.

[Sterling]

70. He meant good journalist, I think.

A good one gets the story, period. I know they don't make many of those anymore.

[bushisanidiot]

19. There are people with guns all over the city. Does that mean the report

that someone shot ->AT<- the helicopter is true? no, it doesn't..

people are starving, dirty, sick and desperate.. i'm sure there are a few crazies mixed in there with everyone else.. and i'm sure there are also military people with their military issued weapons.. who knows what these people are using their guns for?? but, at this point, these stories about rape and shooting at the helicopter are just rumours and i think the MSM has shown extreme recklessness in reporting every rumour they hear. they should be getting confirmation.. it's called journalism.. what they are doing is reporting tabloid stories for people who want to see the worst in people come to fruition..

[spooked911]

37. I don't think it is a rumor-- people are fucking desperate down there

[FightinNewDem]

20. Screw the looters

There's plenty of looting footage. That's not in question.

Further, New Orleans has a long-standing problem with violent crime. There are housing projects that have had more murders in a year than all of the New England states combined.

These aren't frustrated or desperate people. The looters are filth who have forefeited their rights to be part of a relatively civilized society. When people around you are dying, and all you can do is rip off a case of Heineken, a 50 Cent CD, and some jewelry, you deserve whatever violent response you eventually encounter.

[skypilot]

22. Looters and roaming bands of armed gunmen...

...are too different things. And lots of cities have long-standing problems with violent crime and dangerous housing projects. None of that answers my question which was: has anyone seen footage of these roaming bands of armed gunmen?

[quaoar]

6. Superdome evac halted

http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/nationworld/katrina/stories/090105ccwcKatrinaCoptershot.14dc330e.html

Superdome evacuation halted amid gunfire
09:07 AM EDT on Thursday, September 1, 2005

Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS – The evacuation of the Superdome was suspended Thursday after shots were reported fired at a military helicopter and arson fires broke out outside the arena. No immediate injuries were reported.

The scene at the Superdome became increasingly chaotic, with thousands of people rushing from nearby hotels and other buildings, hoping to climb onto the buses taking evacuees from the arena, officials said. Paramedics became increasingly alarmed by the sight of people with guns.

Richard Zeuschlag, chief of the ambulance service that was handling the evacuation of sick and injured people from the Superdome, said it was suspending operations "until they gain control of the Superdome."

[niceypoo]

46. Arson fires??

Did anybody see the footage of the arsonists? No footage = no arson apparently

[Roy]

60. why not mention that the vast majority of folks...

affected by this horrific act of God are peaceful, law abiding people?

Rather than focus on the few and mostly unconfirmed hearsay incidents.

Isn't this the argument that is waged when a police officer shoots an unarmed, innocent 'suspect'.

Is there a double standard here, or is there another factor involved, blinding some of these looter shooters and steering them away from their usual arguments? Hmmmmmm.....

Can we send in the Minutemen now? They will know how to get this situation under control?

[NNN0LHI]

15. Insurgents? n/t

[bribri16]

17. Whatever the situation on this story I can understand shooting at

a helicopter if you think it is flying over you, ignoring your plight. If you haven't had any information about your situation, no food, no water, no shelter. These people are desperate and believe the rest of the world and country is ignoring them.

[Eloriel]

21. Man, I can remember being thirsty and very distracted and cranky

and I can remember being hungry (low blood sugar) and cranky, or not thinking clearly. I can remember being frightened just enough that the thought of the kind of fear and anxiety these people are going through makes me crazy to contemplate.

I don't think any of us who haven't been thru this ourselves really has much ability or right to pass judgment.

[Yupster]

27. You can?

I would hope regardless of my condition, I'd never become so self-centered to think that there are no higher priorities in the world than me.

[brentspeak]

53. Oh, good grief

Bottom line: Nobody can blame the rescuers from not wanting to continue their rescue mission if people are firing upon them. Period.

[Roland99]

18. Hattiesburg, Miss. Man Fatally Shoots Sister Over Bag of Ice

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/12533177.htm

Tempers also were starting to flare. Police said a man in Hattiesburg, Miss., fatally shot his sister in the head over a bag of ice. Dozens of carjackings were reported, including a nursing home bus and a truck carrying medical supplies for a hospital. Some police officers said they had been shot at.

[shockingelk]

24. (Superdome) Evacuation Halted As Order Breaks Down

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-09012005-535412.html

NEW ORLEANS - The evacuation of the Superdome was suspended Thursday because of growing lawlessness outside the arena, as National Guardsmen in armored vehicles poured into New Orleans to help restore order across the increasingly desperate city.

[JanusAscending]

50. SO MUCH BULLSHIT!!!

I want to know what the hell everyone is thinking out there? I just saw live coverage on CNN of the Superdome, and LINES AND LINES of buses just sitting there empty!!! People are lined up outside waiting to board the buses, in that heat, and what the hell do helicopters have to do with evacuating the Dome? Just check them for weapons as they board the bus, and get them the hell out of there!! WHat a freakin' FIASCO!! Rescuers are freakin cowards! Our guys in the service rescue people in battle zones, taking gunfire, so that "no man is left behind"!!!! Now I just heard on CNN that Fema has ordered a "stand down" because "they are in danger" rescue operations to CEASE!!! Why doesn't Bush just shoot them all and put them out of their misery!:sarcasm: Like you'd kil an injured ANIMAL!! That's what these people feel about how they are being treated!! What a JOKE we have for a leader. Jesus help them all!!!

[brentspeak]

55. I guess what the rescuers are thinking

is that they'd rather not be shot and killed while trying to perform a hurricane rescue mission. Who can blame them?

[High Plains]

61. I think the rescuers want to go in...

It is their law and order bosses (FEMA) that is pulling them back.

I'm listening to the Chertoff press conference, all they're talking about is law and order, not rescue.

[Igel]

57. In the LA 'disturbances' fire trucks were shot at.

There was outrage by most.

A few defended them: firemen represented the 'authority'. It was at least understandable, if not excusable, but hardly justifiable.

Another view was that those shooting didn't want the building that an arsonist had set on fire to be saved.

Yet another was that the arson was to attract the firemen.

The real problem: do you want your civilian firemen going into a situation in which they might get shot? They didn't feel like being shot like deer.

[Contrary1]

25. Is Smirk still planning on a personal appearance tomorrow?

He best bring Laura to stand behind.

[hunter]

31. I think they should hand Bush a rifle and parachute him into NO...

Oh, Bah...

Forget the parachute and toss him into the floodwaters.

He's so full of shit he could plug the gap in a broken levee.

:grr:

[I Have A Dream]

56. All he's going to do is get in the way and interfere with the...

rescue efforts. There is going to have to be so many people taken off of the real work that needs to be done so that he can be protected. He does not belong there -- it's just another photo op.

(I understand that he really can't win here. He'd be criticized if he didn't go. However, bottom line: he's going to get in the way of saving lives.)

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

28. Why does "Mad Max" spring to mind?

Looks like it may have been more prophetic than we thought!

[mountainvue]

30. I was just thinking the very same thing. n/t

[NorthernSpy]

62. Mad Max beyond Superdome

Life imitates art.

:(

[Toots]

32. I wonder if they suspend their operations in Iraq if they get shot at?

I thought the National Guard was supposed to stop this sort of thing not run from it.

[Bridget Burke]

36. Their choppers are probably not armed.

They need the weight for the rescue operations.

The National Guard is supposed to start rescuing & patrolling right after a disaster. They are NOT supposed to be fighting the rich men's war overseas.

[David__77]

40. This is a fiasco.

In China, they periodically have flooding in the south that kills thousands. That is why they are building the massive Three Gorges dam to put a stop to it. But my point is that when the flooding happens, they mobilize many thousands of army soldiers and all available government employees to mount rescue efforts. It's a truly massive effort that makes this "superpower's" disaster response look truly horrible.

[DemBones DemBones]

43. It was not a National Guard helicopter, but one

belonging to Acadian Ambulance. I don;t know why BBC got the NG in the headline when they quote the ambulance service chief in the story.

Here's another link:

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/weather/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1125581340216341.xml&storylist=hurricane

It includes more stories of violence:


"In a sign of growing lawlessness, Tenet HealthCare Corp. asked authorities late Wednesday to help evacuate a fully functioning hospital in Gretna after a supply truck carrying food, water and medical supplies was held up at gunpoint."


I've been reading nola.com for days and there are many stories of armed looters trying to break into hospitals, breaking into a nursing home and robbing the old people, stealing the nursing home bus at gunpoint, etc.

[bushisanidiot]

64. The helicopter in question was a chinook military helicopter..

the story is a rumor and a bad one at that as it has many holes.. the biggest hole being that a military helicopter pilot is trained to pick up casualties amidst enemy fire.. why would he cut and run after hearing just ONE shot? sorry.. it doesn't add up at all.

[Gregorian]

51. In Bush's America, authority is seen with hatred.

Even if this copter isn't anything other than a private ambulance service.

[Peace Patriot]

52. Remember what Rumsfeld said about the looting of Baghdad?

Welcome to BushWorld.

[Peace Patriot]

54. "Rumsfeld: Looting is transition to freedom"

By Pamela Hess
UPI Pentagon Correspondent
Published 4/11/2003 5:53 PM


"WASHINGTON, April 11 (UPI) -- U.S. forces should not be blamed for the lawlessness and looting in Baghdad as it is a natural consequence of the transition from a dictatorship to a free country, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Friday at the Pentagon.

"'The task we've got ahead of us now is an awkward one ... It's untidy. And freedom's untidy. And free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here,' Rumsfeld said."

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030411-010551-6382r

[Kaylee]

58. FAA saying there were no shots fired...

Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard said other evacuations were continuing and were not affected by trash fires burning outside the Superdome. Law enforcement officers will ride with the school buses, he said.

"At the Superdome, we have a report that one shot was fired at a Chinook helicopter," Schneider said, adding that the Chinook is "an extremely large aircraft."

Laura Brown, a Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman in Washington, said she had no such report.

"We're controlling every single aircraft in that airspace and none of them reported being fired on," she said, adding that the FAA was in contact with the military as well as civilian aircraft.

Link: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1087205

[bushisanidiot]

63. That story never held water, but people desperately wanted to believe

it was true..

think about it.. a MILITARY helicopter pilot hears ONE gunshot and he abandons ship?

uh.. I don't think they're trained to cut and run quite so easily..

[MisterP]

66. like the "Palestinians taking Red Cross ambulances and filling them

with missiles" story that didn't hold water either

[NorthernSpy]

68. these stories are the inventions of guilty consciences

We left tens of thousands of poor people to die in Hurricane Katrina. For our own sake, we need to justify this after the fact.

[MetaTrope]

67. Remember the wedding party in Afghanistan that shot at an American jet?

Remember?

[bin.dare]

69. these stories are disinfo to prepare ...

... people to accept the eventual shooting of many poor blacks by the "authorities". By the tone of many responses on this thread, they are succeeding handsomely.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

72. Within any segment of the population there are serial killers & murderers

who just enjoy killing. Considering the fact there are tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of people stranded in New Orleans, it stands to reason that a very small number of them will be sick in the head, including perhaps escaped mental patients and convicts. We shouldn't let the actions of a very few be used to characterize the vast majority of the people who are suffering. Unfortunately, that's what some right wingers seem to be doing.

[chomskysright]

73. experiment to see effect of martial law in US explain re: tardinessof help

experiment to see effect of martial law in US explain re: tardinessof help
"It was suggested to me by someone that it seems like the lack of assistance in New Orleans was meant to provoke people to extreme violence and chaos. It certainly looks that way to me... but what if new orleans is being used as a test case to see, in a real world setting, how easily a motivated, angry populace (and the military personnel forced to do the dirty work) could be subdued and controlled to create a working model of how to impose endless Martial Law throughout the country while keeping those who might resist under the lid... and those in the armed forces in line. It's a thought... because I find it absolutely incredible how inept the response has been... to the point of criminality on the part of the federal government." --c., CLG reader.
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