Army Genl Stresses Military Law Enforcemt Aiding Civil Power After Katrina

[TaleWgnDg]

Army General Stresses Military Law Enforcement Aiding Civil Power After Katrina

Law Professor Bernard Hibbitts at 8:00 PM ET,
Thursday, September 01, 2005

(JURIST NEWS) The Chief of the US Army National Guard Bureau (official website) said Thursday in Washington that the National Guard was deploying over 4000 military police to support civilian law enforcement officers around New Orleans and elsewhere in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. "This is not martial law," said Lt. Gen. H Steven Blum (official profile), referring to some erroneous media reports. "This is helping a police force that is overstretched with the extraordinary challenge that it’s facing." Despite its use by local officials, most recently the mayor of New Orleans (JURIST News report) on Wednesday, "martial law" - technically, emergency government by military authorities - is http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/08/update-louisiana-martial-law.php">not recognized in Louisiana state law (JURIST News report), according to a clarifying statement issued Tuesday by the Louisiana Attorney General's office. Assistant Secretary of Defense Paul McHale similarly insisted that all law enforcement would be on the National Guard side operating under control of state governors; some 7000 active duty federal troops would also be involved in rescue and recovery operations, but federal law in the form of the Posse Comitatus Act (Wikipedia backgrounder) prohibits (federal troops) from conducting domestic law enforcement. The American Forces Press Service has more; the New Orleans Times-Picayune provides additional coverage.

National Guard Bureau historian Renee Hylton meanwhile told the Navy Times Thursday, "The Guard has been sent in many times to maintain law and order. But just to maintain law and order is not automatically martial law.” "'Ruled by military’ is not part of the British-American tradition," she explained. Actual impositions of martial law within the United States are rare; in recent times, the governor of Indiana declared martial law during a labor strike in the 1950s and Phoenix City, Alabama was made subject to a similar declaration around the same time as part of an effort to tackle organized crime. The Navy Times has more.

8:50 PM ET - The security and law enforcement situation in New Orleans continues to deteriorate. The current headline on the New Orleans WWL-TV website is a a single word: "Anarchy".

9:55 PM ET - In a late Baton Rouge press conference Thursday, Governor Kathleen Blanco said she was sending 300 heavily-armed Arkansas National Guard troops just back from Iraq into New Orleans to help restore order.
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(bold-faced type added by TaleWgnDg)
. . . more at . . . http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/09/army-general-stresses-military-law.php
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I believe it is very important for us, the American public, to understand what authority the New Orleans police have, what authority the federal troops have, what authority the National Guard has. Let's not confuse them. Some have police power while on American soil while others have absolutely NO POLICE POWER while on American soil (off military bases). DUers should be aware of the distinctions, and not many do after reading many DU threads about the tragedy in New Orleans and surrounding areas. I suggest a careful read of this news item together with a comprehensive read of the hyperlinked urls is important to fully understand who has what power under law.

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[Kagemusha]

1. I'm sorry, I refuse to blame myself for being fooled by officials.

When the mayor of New Orleans says martial law, it's not my obligation to go find a copy of the state constitution to find out if it fits the fine legal definition of martial law or not.

The fact is, the normal understanding of the term 'martial law' doesn't have much to do with the fine legal definition anyway. What people consider martial law is emergency power to enforce curfew and maintain order by force of arms without such enforcement being considered murder under American law.

But don't blame people for using the vernacular if government officials of the state concerned can't be bothered to make fine legal distinctions themselves.

[Eloriel]

8. Good point. And how often have the Bushies hid behind such

legalisms anyway. Anyone remember some memos from Bush Admin attorneys re torture, for example?

[snot]

2. I agree it's important for us to understand those distinctions--

and not to accept any label or characterization offered by anyone connected with this administration without independent scrutiny and verification as to what's actually happening.

[BiggJawn]

3. So, if I have a soldier standing in the street outside w/a loaded M-16...

What the fuck would you CALL it?

This reminds me of the late Dr. Gene Scott bemusing over bible scholars "Arguing over a diddly-damn dipthong in the Greek...".

Have you forgotten Rumsferatu's policy of "Shoot first, let me confuse the press while explaining it later"?

[TaleWgnDg]

4. The law reads . . .

that federal military personnel cannot enforce law while on American soil except while on a military base, period. There are certain excepts to that rather broad rule. However, NONE OF THE EXCEPTIONS APPLY in this Katrina devastation.

On the other hand, National Guard if authorized by a Governor has enforcement (including arrest) authority, period. However, a president may "call up" the National Guard and "federalize" them as this *sshole named Dumbya has done to our National Guard in, e.g., Afghanistan and Iraq.

Hey, I don't presently write the laws. Don't *blame* me. However, I've studied and have license(s) to practice law. Uuummm, but this isn't legal advice.


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[BiggJawn]

5. OK, the "Posse Commitatus" Law....

I got you now. I was confused by your original post.

But I could just hear Rumsferatu..."Posse Committus? Good Golly, Miss Molly! Is THAT old law still on the books? Do I think it's outmoded and quaint in this Age of Terror? Why of COURSE I think we ought to focus on the Job at Hand, this 'War against Terror' that's grabbing all our attention....Next Question?"

[TaleWgnDg]

6. Well, you are correct. Very correct. By that I mean there are

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Well, you are correct. Very correct. By that I mean there are federal laws, e.g., The Patriot Act of 2001, that can over-ride the Posse Comitatus Act and there are other exceptions too. Such as if the mayhem gets too much in New Orleans or wherever then "martial law" may be declared which would allow federal troops to enforce laws including arrest people. However, up until now -- the present -- these exceptions have not occurred. But think about the politics of it all. And the ease with which this may occur. Sad.

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[BiggJawn]

9. Yeah, we're on the same page with this.

Someone mentioned Posse Commitatus at work the other day and i came back with "you REALLY think the same bunch who's killed 2,000 of our young people and who knows how many Iraqis all because 'Saddam tried to kill muh Daddy' is gonna let something like THAT stop 'em when they decide it's time to close down this little "experiment in Democracy" we've had going for the last 200-odd years?"

I've been very uneasy this week watching things fester in NOLA.

And i just read Maddy's report from 90 miles north of NOLA. Sounds like it's getting pretty grim there. Straight out of Mad Max w/o the 'Strylian dialects.

[me b zola]

7. They have locked the survivors in the convention center & superdome

If they don't have the authority to do that, they need to let those people go, NOW!!!

[Sgent]

10. While all of this is

theorhetically true, there is an easy answer....

You can detach various military units from the regular army/marines, etc. You then attach them to the LA National Gaurd, under command of Govenor Blanco, and the Adjuct General of LA.

[Pachamama]

11. I'm betting that the Bush Administration & GOP Congress starts trying to

get the Posse Comitatus Act repealed within the next month....

Wanna wager anyone? I've been betting that was on their list a long time ago....Now they will use Hurricane Katrina and the inability to respond (and ofcourse to all the "lawlessness") that they will try to argue that Military troops need to be given the ability to act on US soil for our "security"....

Of course, none of this would necessary if our NATIONAL GUARD was here to do its job instead of being in Iraq...but never fear, the Bush Neo-cons have been eyeballing this opportunity for awhile...and now they will go for it...

Mark my words and bookmark this thread....they want to get rid of that "pesky" Posse Comitatus Act...:eyes: