Castro Talks With U.S. Tour Operators

[Osolomia]

Monday October 20, 2003
By ANITA SNOW
Associated Press Writer

HAVANA (AP) - Cuban President Fidel Castro told American tour operators Sunday that if U.S. restrictions on travel are lifted, visitors will find Cuban tourism workers to be well-educated.

Tourism workers must have good knowledge of a broad range of subjects, Castro told the group during the surprise encounter at Havana's convention center.

``If not, how will they speak with the tourists?'' he said.

On Sunday, about 40 U.S. tour operators visited Cuba, ignoring the Bush administration's crackdown on American travel to the communist island.

... ``We are now asking when - and not if'' the U.S. restrictions on travel to Cuba will be eliminated, said Matt Grayson, government affairs director for the National Tour Association.

U.S. travel companies have been fighting for an end to the restrictions, even as President Bush has pushed to tighten them.

More...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3284809,00.html

[Judi Lynn]

1. Time to end the travel ban now

before this nonsense can continue much longer!

About 185,000 U.S. residents and citizens visited Cuba last year, island officials said.

Of those, perhaps 40,000 came illegally through third countries such as Jamaica, Canada or Mexico to disguise their trips. Bush administration officials recently vowed to dedicate anti-terrorism resources to restrict that practice.

Oh, bite us!

[dax]

2. Did I miss the American tourist in Cuba who participated in 9/11?

That anti terrorism budget is just going to get bigger and bigger if it is supposed to cover muzzling all the tourists... I mean democracy might break out somewhere if we dont keep funding the mercenaries in wars that aren't declared and the CIA so-called journalists in Cuba who are so lame they keep getting caught-or maybe that is part of their "cover" as jailed "political dissidents"?
I wonder if some of them were contacts of the outed CIA agent...Do their families get special danger pay? The travel ban crackdown is just more proof that the truth will lock the Bushiviks UP and set us FREE. That crap about the sex trade really makes me mad-we have a system where a pimp can get a woman on drugs and she will never live in Bush's public housing or get welfare because of her drug charge, her kids won't get care either, and now the Bush solicitor general is filing a friend of court brief that if an employer fires someone for drug use, they don't even have to consider hiring them EVER again even if they successfully complete treatment. So we take away Head Start, deny services to anyone with a drug problem, and deny them jobs for the rest of their lives which kind of leaves terrorism as the only option... "Is our children learning?"(Bush quote)

[Say_What]

3. 40 tour operators--another group saying F*ck You to the Bushies

First the farm and ag folks, now the travel industry folks thumbing their collective noses at Washington and Miami. Related article says they were fully hosted and did not spend one dime--therefore the Bushistas can't do a thing.

From a related article:

...U.S. Travel Execs Visit Forbidden Cuba

... The group, whose industry stands to gain the most from the lifting of a U.S. ban on travel to Cuba currently being debated in the U.S. Congress, was welcomed with a champagne breakfast to the strains of salsa music and a tour of the city's hotels.

... "It has simply been spectacular," said Matt Grayson, director of the National Tour Association, whose members send 1 million American tourists a year on Caribbean holidays.

"There is a tangible feeling in Cuba that you are in a very different place," he said.

Grayson said Cuba had everything Americans tourists were looking for after the September 11, 2001, attacks: It was close, it was safe, it had culture and history, and boasted colonial architecture, sunny beaches and diving.'

<http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=791895&tw=wn_wire_story>

[Mika]

4. There are still horses in Cuba??

I thought that Castro forced Cubans into malnourishment and starvation, and they had to eat all of the horses. ;-)

[Say_What]

5. Lots of editorials on the tin-pot dictator Bush--even at the GOP USA site

From GOPUSA.com

<clips>

Cuba a Threat or an Opportunity?

...Now, Bush wants to point the finger at a defiant tyrant, not because he is a cruel despot; but because he is not on the same page of the long term program. Has the Monroe Doctrine evolved to such an extent that the prevailing fear is that another Mariel boat invasion is the most effective flanking move for an opposing enemy? In a world where the nexus of a continuous foe drives policy, one must find a fresh adversary or reinvent an old one. Castro may well hang on to the reigns of power longer then his true antagonist the Pope. However, John Paul II won't be offended because of being passed over for the Nobel Peace Prize. If such awards were meaningful, the legacy of Bush II could never be considered . . .

Most staunch Yanks, true believers in their government as a substitute for country, refuse to deal with reality. Without national outrage, the policy of pre-emption has become and will remain routine. Connecting the dots to encircle a genuine national security defense is counter to the master plan. Cuba should be for Cubans. Hopes for a massive exodus back to their homeland are illusory. Osiel has too many cousins named Gonzalez, playing dominos. South Beach may be the dream export for developers, after Castro; but Havana has already arrived in Dade County. Expatriation means electing Republican Representatives. Miami has become a foreign trade zone, where Yankees require a visa and a pocket translator.

All this is just fine with the Bushes as brother Jeb wants to retain the title of viceroy. Elian Gonzalez was sent home, while next of kin Osiel remains angry at electioneering. Cuban-American legal scholar Dr. Alberto Luzarraga said: "It is the Clinton administration that is violating the rule of law with regularity and seeming impunity". What Cuban will now speak out against their adopted Republican Party monarch? Continuation of Janet Reno oppression under John Ashcroft doesn't make the DoJ just. Castro has never ruled with justice, so why should America vote for our own homemade version of a tin horn dictator? A true conservative won't listen to radio Marti with a Spanish speaking Sean Hannity want-a-bee, praising Bush.

http://gopusa.com/sartre/sartre_1020.shtml

---

From the Boston Globe

<clips>

Cuba's needless isolation

PRESIDENT BUSH, unwilling to tackle the difficult issues between the United States and Cuba, has imposed new restrictions on Americans' travel to the island. This will do nothing to loosen Fidel Castro's grip, but it will diminish the contacts that might, in time, lead to better Cuban-American relations.

"I've instructed the Department of Homeland Security to increase inspections of travelers and shipments to and from Cuba," Bush said in a speech this month. But Cuba does not pose a threat of terrorism to the United States. Bush's speech was a sop to Cuban-Americans in Florida, a likely swing state in the 2004 election, as of course it was in 2000.

The number of people violating travel restrictions is small compared to the thousands of Cuban-Americans who visit the island and who will still be permitted once-a-year trips to help out their relatives. For the last six months, however, the Bush administration has been cutting back on the "people-to-people" tours first allowed by the Clinton administration in 1999. Alumni associations and other groups of like-minded people are now denied an opportunity to interact with Cubans. Some participants, to be sure, were mainly interested in sampling Cuban cigars, but even the Greater Boston Chamber of Commerce could not get government approval to go to Havana for its annual city-to-city goodwill mission.

Last month, as it has for two previous years, the House approved a proposal that would effectively allow travel to Cuba by preventing the Treasury Department from enforcing the restrictions. This proposal was pushed forward by a bipartisan coalition led by Jeff Flake, Republican of Arizona, and William Delahunt, Democrat of Massachusetts. The US Senate has never endorsed an end to travel restrictions, and Bush has promised a veto should that ever reach his desk.

<http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2003/10/20/cubas_needless_isolation/>

[Mika]

6. Castro forced them to grow organic produce for that market you know

See how thin all of those Cubans in the market are? Look at the filthy rags they are wearing. Castro forces Cubans to wear filthy rags ya know. Look at the armed military forcing those Cubans to buy the produce they don't have money for.

Like the education and health care Cubans are forced to get, Castro forcing open air organic farmers markets on Cubans is a sure sign of the brutality he singlehandedly doles out. I mean.. look at the picture.. they are exchanging money in Castro's commie "utopia".. this must be stopped by an American liberation, post haste.

<sarcasm off>

[Osolomia]

7. The steady stream of editorials across the country continues

Careless talk
President Bush's promises to Cuban exiles are no service to the country.

The Hawkeye, Iowa
Octover 20, 2003

President Bush traveled to Florida recently to mine votes for next year's election.

With his brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush at his side, the president kowtowed to 400,000 Cuban–American voters by talking regime change and promising to get tougher on Cuba's communist government.

... That will include a crackdown on Americans who travel to Cuba for pleasure or spend U.S. money there, which will entail fines and/or jail.

Cuban–Americans, however, are exempt from punishment for visiting or sending money to Cuba.

More...
http://www.thehawkeye.com/daily/stories/co1_1020.html

[Judi Lynn]

8. His vote lust has him acting silly!

(snip) Bush's most worrisome promise was his pledge to launch a new public relations program to encourage Cubans to migrate to the United States. The means and the goal are couched in more obtuse language, but the meaning is the same.

It is an irresponsible promise, an invitation to repeat another debacle: The 1980 Mariel Boatlift that damaged Jimmy Carter's presidency and burdened U.S. taxpayers for the care of 125,000 Cuban immigrants.

President Bush may need Cuban votes to win election, but the nation is not served by his careless talk. (snip/)

Thanks for the article. Loved the tone employed in describing _Bush as "mining votes" in the "exile" community. Wooo hoooooo!

[Say_What]

10. Sex in Cuba?

<clips>

At a recent briefing, President Bush announced he was cracking down on travel to Cuba because of the government's "brutal oppression" and to thwart what he called a "rapidly growing illicit sex trade" that is " encouraged by the Cuban government."
Click here!

CoGo was surprised to hear the latter. On a trip last spring, there was no evidence of an open sex trade, let alone anything like the markets in downtown Bangkok. In fact, Cubans complained to CoGo that they had to have a date to go to the best clubs -- a rule they said was to keep sex hustlers from seeking partners at clubs that attract foreigners. Plus, advocates of the U.S. travel ban have long complained that Cubans are prohibited from hotels and beaches frequented by foreigners.

So what's the evidence? The State Department's 2003 "Trafficking in Persons" report, said White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan. The report lists 80 countries as having a human exploitation problem. Cuba is on the list, as is the host of next summer's Olympics, Greece.

CoGo turned to the World Wide Web and found that while sex is for sale everywhere, including Cuba, sex tour operators most frequently extoll Thailand and Brazil. In the pedophile category, Brazil, India and Thailand lead the pack; Brazil alone has a half-million kids in the sex trade, according to the group ECPAT, whose full name describes its mission: End Child Prostitution, Child Pornography and the Trafficking of Children. Cuba, ECPAT said, has fewer underage kids in the sex trade than any country in the region.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42038-2003Oct17.html

[Say_What]

9. Food and agricultural trade from U.S. to Cuba soars

drip, drip, drip...

<clips>

HAVANA - One year after a historic U.S. agricultural trade fair in Havana, U.S. food and agricultural sales to Cuba are soaring even as relations between the two countries are at their lowest point in years.

Archer Daniels Midland Co., the Decatur, Ill.-based food giant, along with dozens of other U.S. companies, have sold more than $125 million in wheat, rice, poultry and other products to Cuba in the first six months of 2003, according to the U.S.-Cuba Trade and Economic Council. That compares to $138.6 million for all of 2002, according to the council.

Diplomats and experts said Cuban officials are increasing their purchases of U.S. products because shipping and other costs are far cheaper for American goods than those from Europe, Asia and other distant regions.

But Cuban officials also are trying to boost U.S. agricultural trade — which several years ago was exempted under the decades-old U.S. economic embargo against the Caribbean island — as a way to build pressure in the United States to further ease longstanding economic sanctions, experts said.

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/Business/Story/73395.html

[Judi Lynn]

11. Cuba foots bill to teach Kiwis literacy

Cuba foots bill to teach Kiwis literacy

22.10.2003
By AINSLEY THOMSON and HELEN TUNNAH
Cuba is sending education advisers to New Zealand to improve literacy rates.

The Cuban advisers are working at the Te Awamutu-based Te Wananga o Aotearoa (the University of New Zealand) - the country's largest tertiary institution - where they are helping develop a literacy programme called Greenlight.

Cuba pays the advisers' wages, and Te Wananga picks up the bill for their living costs.

The video-based programme uses Cuban and Maori teaching practices.

A pamphlet describes the Cuban teaching process as moving from "the idea to the word, from the word to the phoneme, from the phoneme to the new word, from the new words to new ideas and those new ideas transform student's thoughts, words and actions." (snip/...)

~~~~ link ~~~~

[Say_What]

12. Cuba travel hypocrisy (Letter to the MH)

MIAMI HERALD
October 22, 2003

Cuba travel hypocrisy

It's a shame that in your Oct. 14 editorial Unite in push for Cuba's
freedom supporting tighter embargo measures against Cuba, you didn't
reiterate your earlier position opposing the existing travel
restrictions.

These restrictions aren't about the embargo -- they aren't even about
Cuba or Fidel Castro. What they are about is the constitutional right
of every American to travel freely, except to nations with which we
are at war. This point has been made repeatedly by Jeff Flake, a
conservative Republican congressman.

It never ceases to amaze me how the supposedly conservative and
liberty-loving trio of Reps. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Lincoln and
Mario Díaz-Balart continues to support the continuance and tightening
of a measure that historically has been the province of communist and
other dictatorial regimes.

This is pure hypocrisy.

RICHARD ROSICHAN, Miami Beach

[Osolomia]

13. But Dems support the travel ban with their own hypocrisy!

And therein lies the problem. No one to blame but themselves for their silent complicity with the Bush Doctrine.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=567082

[Judi Lynn]

14. We shouldn't be held prisoner by our right-wing power freaks

ACLU Questions Need for Cuba Travel Ban; Cites Constitutional Right to Travel


February 11, 2002




FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

WASHINGTON -- The American Civil Liberties Union today commended a Senate subcommittee for holding an oversight hearing into the need and effectiveness of the current ban on American travel to Cuba.

"There is no reason why Americans shouldn't be able to practice their constitutional right to travel freely to Cuba," said Timothy Edgar, an ACLU Legislative Counsel. "Contact between our two countries would be mutually beneficial, demonstrating to Cubans the desirability of democracy and freedom and further informing us about our nearest neighbor in the Caribbean."

The oversight hearing was held today by the Senate Treasury and General Government Subcommittee to examine the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), the Treasury Department office responsible for enforcing the Cuba travel ban.

The Supreme Court has found that the ability to travel freely across the borders of the United States is a right protected by the First and Fifth Amendments of the Constitution. Former Supreme Court Justice William Douglas described freedom of movement as "the very essence of our free society, setting us apart.... it often makes all other rights meaningful." (snip/...)

http://www.aclu.org/NationalSecurity/NationalSecurity.cfm?ID=9693&c=109

[Osolomia]

15. Hey, spewing facts about Cuba policy is considered bashing on DU

Around here we much prefer to wallow in our ignorant bigotry and spew cold war propaganda as if it’s gospel and anyone who dares to challenge our lies and bullshit is considered a basher, hence good DUers ignore posts that contain any documented facts about US-Cuba policy from credible sources. Wouldn’t want the Dem party to come up with a better policy of our own especially with a presidential election campaign on the go now would we!

[Judi Lynn]

16. It's a real chore

trying to grasp how Democrats, from the same party which nominated and elected Jimmy Carter, who removed the travel ban, only to have Ronald Reagan reinstall it, and Bill Clinton, who eased travel ban restrictions, only to have _{George W. Bush} tighten them up worse than they were before, can cast their lots with the right-wing extremists and identify as travel ban advocates.

I ALWAYS believe those people are only posing as Democrats, as they are pursuing a right-wing ONLY agenda. Couldn't be clearer.

[Chovexani]

37. A lot of people are just ignorant

I know that before DU I used to believe all the Keystone Cuban spin about the issue. You and the other DUers who routinely post "Just the facts, ma'am" have really opened my eyes on this issue.

:hug:

[Say_What]

17. Cuba, China enhance scientific and technological cooperation

Havana, Oct. 22 (VNA) - Cuba and China have agreed to cooperate on scientific and technological studies on a wide range of areas such as biotechnology, pharmacy, agriculture, environment, natural resources, and information technology between now and 2005.

The agreement was reached during the sixth meeting of the joint committee for scientific and technological cooperation which ended in Havana on Tuesday.

On this occasion, the Chinese Ministry of Science, Technology and Environment donated 20 sets of computers to its Cuban Counterpart.-Enditem

<http://www.vnagency.com.vn/NewsA.asp?LANGUAGE_ID=2&CATEGORY_ID=34&NEWS_ID=28278>

[Say_What]

18. US entrepreneurs seek opportunities in Cuba

<clips>

Havana, Oct. 20 (VNA) - Representatives from around 40 US businesses arrived in Havana on Sunday in a bid to seek business opportunities in anticipation of the lifting of the US embargo on Cuba.

The US entrepreneurs visited tourist, cultural and historical sites in Havana and met with Cuban senior officials.

According to Cuban and US experts, once the US removes its embargo on Cuba, an estimated 1 million US visitors will go to Cuba in the first year. The number is predicted to surge to 2.5-3 million in five years.

According to Cuban Minister of Tourism Ibrahim Ferradaz, Cuba is capable of hosting over 1 million US travellers annually, citing that the country has over 40,000 hotel rooms.

<http://www.vnagency.com.vn/NewsA.asp?LANGUAGE_ID=2&CATEGORY_ID=34&NEWS_ID=27847>

[Judi Lynn]

19. This has to be accurate

(snip) According to Cuban and US experts, once the US removes its embargo on Cuba, an estimated 1 million US visitors will go to Cuba in the first year. The number is predicted to surge to 2.5-3 million in five years.
(snip)

So many Americans have already gone there, ILLEGALLY, while the travel ban was in place!

Very interesting.

[Osolomia]

24. 242,000 Canadians went to Cuba in January-March 2003

a 66.1% increase since the same period in 2002

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/030827/d030827c.htm

332,000 Canadians went during 2002
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/030528/d030528b.htm

The US population is 10 times Canada’s and has 40 years of pent-up demand and curiosity, you do the math!

[Judi Lynn]

20. Cuba Controversy At Travel Agent Convention

Cuba Controversy At Travel Agent Convention
ASTA Members Debate Cuban Travel Embargo

POSTED: 5:13 PM EDT October 21, 2003
UPDATED: 6:15 PM EDT October 21, 2003

MIAMI -- Travel agents, in Miami for a convention, have strong opinions on allowing Americans to travel to Cuba, and some say their bottom line is out of line with many South Floridians.

Popular opinion among a majority of South Floridians is that the Cuban embargo should stand until Cuba becomes a Democratic country.

But members of the American Society of Travel Agents say they are often asked why Americans are not allowed to travel Cuba.

This past weekend a group of travel agents violated the embargo and traveled from Cancun, Mexico, to Cuba, and said they were "welcomed with open arms." (snip/...)

http://www.click10.com/news/2570851/detail.html

[Osolomia]

21. How many Americans does it take to figure out that if we can hear them

then the people in Cuba can hear our radio stations too?!

Transcript
Station Break

With Paul Farhi
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 21, 2003; 1:00 PM

(snip/..)

The Airless Cubicle: Just a quick reminder: with the nights getting longer, it's more feasible to listen to radio stations around the country if you're fed up with the hash around here. I recommend the talk show host on WBZ-1030-Boston at 7:00 p.m. He's lively and has interesting guests, and WBZ is a clear channel (not Clear Channel) station. WGN-720-Chicago isn't bad, either. I can't speak very well of the New York talkers, though WOR-710 comes blasting in on the 270-495 spur as if it were local.

The saddest loss was when Canada closed down the CBC Radio One outlets in Toronto and Montreal. They were a source of interesting news with a perspective different from the U.S. networks. However, CHMO, which took over Toronto's slot on 740, is a great big band station. WSAI-1530-Cincinnati and WKBW-1520-Buffalo are fantastic oldies stations and make WBIG sound like WGAY used to.

On good days you can even get Cuba's Radio Rebelde on 690, and even Venezuela on 780 if the solar conditions block out Chicago.

So, you may not like DC radio, but in winter, there's nothing that prevents a change of venue. You don't even need a satellite dish on your car--just your AM radio.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9265-2003Oct10.html

So why are US taxpayers still financing the Miami Batistianos’ Radio/TV Marti and giving shortwave radios to the “dissidents” in Cuba again? And at how much $$$$ a year? Add in Homeland Security enforcement of the travel ban against Americans and what is the annual budget of the USA's anti-Cuba industry in 2003?

[DUGA]

22. Question

Since I do not have much knowledge on this topic I'm curious if someone with a better understanding could answer my question. Why is the Cuban community in Florida still supporting the travel ban? I realize they oppose Castro, but do they fear that the massive influx of tourist dollars would only go in to Castro's pocket and not benefit the people? Is that the reasoning behind it?

[Osolomia]

23. That is the rationale that's given by everyone

including the 2004 Democratic presidential candidates. Meanwhile the fact that the "exiles" have been freely travelling back and forth and spending as much as $1 billion a year there for several years now is ignored.

Remember, the whole purpose of US policy against Cuba for 40 years now is to economically cripple the island and overthrow Castro, hence the trade embargo and travel ban.

[DUGA]

25. Thanks

I appreciate the answer. I could probably go so far as to understand why Reagan re-instituted the ban during the Cold War, however I'm at a loss as to why politicians see the need for it now.

[Osolomia]

26. I don't get it either that's why I keep prodding

There's lots of excuses but no good reasons for the ban or the politicians pandering to the "exiles" in Miami to this day.

Why not admit that 40 years of trying to oust Castro and return the Batistianos to power has failed and get off the Cuba's back?

You should know that a bipartisan majority in the House of Representatives voted 227-188 last month to lift the travel ban and the Senate is expected to do so too in the next week or so but Bush has threatened to veto any easing of the sanctions against American-Americans.

[Mika]

28. The majority of Cuban Americans DO NOT support the travel ban

The majority of Cuban Americans DO NOT support the travel ban.

Just because the propaganda for profit networks in the US have Americans believing that the entire Cuban-American community is represented by the very vocal extremist minority doesn't meant its true.

Most of the Miamicuban community feels that the extremism and support for the embargo and sanctions is hindering the average Cuban in Cuba. They know this because, as pointed out earlier, they can go to Cuba.

Understand that most of the Cuban immigrants that have come to the US have come here for the same reasons that immigrants from all over the Caribbean and Latin Americas come to the US.. jobs. Jobs that help them earn enough money to send some back to their family in their homeland. The majority of Cuban immigrants don't have an all consuming hatred of Fidel Castro, and the USA offers Cubans many avenues and a wealth of exclusive perks for immigrating here.. plus they can travel back to their homeland and take or send money.. just like almost all other immigrants do.


The reasoning for maintaining the extremist positions against Castro is for political gain, at the expense of the ignorant taxpayers who are brainwashed into thinking that Cubans are "fleeing" Castro, instead of understanding the actual Cuban-American community's immigration experience.

Consider this.. If there were to be no Castro, then there would be no VERY profitable taxpayer funded anti Castro foundations and programs. If there were to be no Castro, who the F would Ileana Ros and the Diaz Balart brothers run against? They need Castro. Everything these so called "anti Castro" factions do, from taunts to threats of war to sanctions to embargoes, only unites the Cuban people behind their fearless and successful leader. This is what the "anti Castro" politicians and "free Cuba" foundations need - in order to continue to profiteer on the backs of the US taxpayers.


These hard core anti Castro factions (mainly the ex Cuban Batista oligarchy and their offspring) have a LONG history of violence and intimidation against anyone who dares not toe the virulent anti Castro line. This violence and intimidation against anyone who dares not toe the virulent anti Castro line includes murder and assassinations, fire bombings and car bombings.

The violence and intimidation has done a good job at muting the more rational and reasoned voices in the Cuban-American community in Miami, but, there are a few very brave people and a few small pro-normalization groups in Miami daring enough to speak for the majority & take on the intransigent and violent anti Castro profiteers. They get little, if any, media attention in the USA.




Don't ask questions!

[Judi Lynn]

29. Excellent comments, Mika

I would like to add as someone who knew absolutely NOTHING about the US-Cuba relationship before Elián Gonzalez was seized by his distant relatives in Miami, that I have discovered most Americans were in the same boat, also.

Elián Gonzalez focused us all on Miami, and as we heard and saw the spokespeople of the Cuban "exile" community in Miami speaking on tv day after day for months, we were able to start recognizing there was a whole lot more going on than we had understood.

Why did that community believe it could actually rage against the government like that, and pitch fits when things didn't go its way, and riot at the end? I noted that they had a peculiar "take" on life in America, and literally expected to be treated with a kind of deference not EVER extended to any other group.

In those months no doubt thousands and thousands of Americans started looking into Cuban-American issues, and starting to read everything possible on Cuban/American history. I would suggest that anyone who has resisted the impulse to find out more should dive right in now, and get busy. It's a complex subject, isn't it?

We haven't been given the truth, as it doesn't support anti-Cuba propaganda, and whatever facts are available have to be deliberately uncovered.

I've heard that this one event broke the "spell" in Miami, when the leadership of the Cuban American National Foundation actually did NOT prevail. I've heard that more people felt safer in publically having a different opinion from the official, acceptible attitude there. Do you think this is true, or is it actually too simplistic?
Thanks.

[9215]

36. Great post!

Very good points.

[9215]

35. A number of anti-Castro Cubans

hate Castro because of personal business losses they incurred when he came to power. Gambling casinos in particular. But also Havana was a hub of the illegal drug trade and the Cuban Mafia really took a hit when Castro stopped that trade.

Castro should get a medal for his work in this area. One thing about socialists, they know how to handle the drug problem. Mainland China nearly eradicated their drug problem after WWII. The Nationalist Chiang Kai-Shek was involved heavily in drug trafficking, even to the Japaneze Army in WWII. He was booted and the Southern Chinese opium growing was halted and addicts put in detox.

Then Chiang Kai-Shek linked up with the corrupt Diem of South Vietnam and the CIA and ........

Hope I didn't get to far off topic. I am researching this most interesting topic.

[Judi Lynn]

27. Surely you jest!

This article would be hilarious, if it weren't actually a little too scary.

» More From Today's Mobile Register
Cuba conference in Mobile opens amid controversy

State Department links Society Mobile-La Habana to expelled Cuban diplomat

10/11/03

By GEORGE TALBOT
Business Reporter


An air of conspiracy mixed with the Cuban artwork and rum cocktails Friday as the Society Mobile-La Habana opened its 10th anniversary conference in Mobile.

The fraternal organization, established in 1993 to promote cultural exchanges between Mobile and Havana, was linked by U.S. State Department officials Friday to a Cuban diplomat expelled from the U.S. earlier this year under suspicion of espionage.

(snip) A State Department official who asked not to be identified said the Mobile society "may have strayed from its stated mission as a sister cities group" during some of those visits. Robert Schaefer, the president of Mobile-La Habana, said members of the group were friendly with Redondo but never had any inkling that he was doubling as a spy.

"If Oscar was a spook, he certainly neglected to tell me about it," said Schaefer.

(snip) The comments from the State Department were made just hours after President Bush, in a morning speech at the White House, announced an aggressive initiative to identify and punish Americans who visit Cuba in violation of U.S. laws.

(snip) The Bush speech, and the State Department's decision to block the travel of Cuba's top U.S. diplomat to Mobile for this weekend's conference, gave a charge to what organizers expected to be a low-key, if festive, gathering at the Radisson Admiral Semmes hotel.

Schaefer said in a series of media interviews that the society "would not and has not" worked on behalf of the Cuban government, nor did it make any conditional agreements in establishing its sister-city partnership. He called such allegations "absurd and sad," and said the society includes among its 225 members a number of prominent Mobilians, among them doctors, lawyers and religious leaders representing a spectrum of political and social viewpoints. (snip/...)

http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1065863951126911.xml

[Judi Lynn]

30. Senator Byron Dorgan is on C-Span II right now discussing Cuba

Just turned it on. Looks as if they are going to tackle the Cuba travel ban today.

Please go to www.c-span.org and click on c-span 2 to listen online.

[qwertyMike]

31. Been to Cuba Many times

on Vacation starting in 1974.

Popular spot with Canadaians. Sorry, but one of the attractions is - <ahem> no American Tourists </ahem>.
My sister has been a few times too (from the UK) and in 2004 a group from my daughter's high school graduating class is going down for a Fling.
My daughter (18)is hinting that she may 'become a woman' there :(
Hope his name's Che

Feeling old

[Judi Lynn]

32. Outstanding, qwertyMike!

Your comments would TOTALLY welcome here. There are some other Cuba travellers here, too, and they have a very different attitude from those of us who have never been there, to be sure.

Welcome to D.U.! :hi: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[qwertyMike]

33. Thanks JudiLyn

Cuba's very old world. Awesome place. I dread th US tourist invasion - I already have images of sleek hotels and burger joints :(

I love the people there.
A lot of people I knew in the '70's used to go down to help cut sugar cane. Sort of alt.peace.corps - lot of draft-dodgers did that.
We weren't really much help, except with morale (OUR morale!)

Great RUM

[Judi Lynn]

34. qwertyMike, a lot of Americans feel similarly protective

of Cuba's blissful lack of blighted commercialism.

I have read that Cuba intends to follow its own course, regardless of how any travel ban or no travel ban developes. Really hope they can maintain their integrety.

[Judi Lynn]

38. For anyone who recalls Bush's unexpected, odd charges against Cuba

as being a country involved in sex trafficking, here's an article:

(snip) Sex in Cuba?

Washington Post
October 19, 2003
COMINGANDGOING

At a recent briefing, President Bush announced he was cracking down on travel to Cuba because of the government's "brutal oppression" and to thwart what he called a "rapidly growing illicit sex trade" that is " encouraged by the Cuban government."
CoGo was surprised to hear the latter. On a trip last spring, there was no evidence of an open sex trade, let alone anything like the markets in downtown Bangkok. In fact, Cubans complained to CoGo that they had to have a date to go to the best clubs -- a rule they said was to keep sex hustlers from seeking partners at clubs that attract foreigners. Plus, advocates of the U.S. travel ban have long complained that Cubans are prohibited from hotels and beaches frequented by foreigners.

So what's the evidence? The State Department's 2003 "Trafficking in Persons" report, said White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan. The report lists 80 countries as having a human exploitation problem. Cuba is on the list, as is the host of next summer's Olympics, Greece.

CoGo turned to the World Wide Web and found that while sex is for sale everywhere, including Cuba, sex tour operators most frequently extoll Thailand and Brazil. In the pedophile category, Brazil, India and Thailand lead the pack; Brazil alone has a half-million kids in the sex trade, according to the group ECPAT, whose full name describes its mission: End Child Prostitution, Child Pornography and the Trafficking of Children. Cuba, ECPAT said, has fewer underage kids in the sex trade than any country in the region. (snip/...)

http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/cuba/1189.html

Any time you slap down a lie with these people, they invent a new one, and when you slap that one down, they go back the the first one, etc., etc. They never admit they lied, they continue to push the very same, tired lies YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR. Jeeez.

That's why it's good to post all related articles anytime you find'em. Thanks.