A cruel irony (Marine who helped save Jessica Lynch shot at home)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~21474~1712373,00.html

LONG BEACH Family members, friends and fellow Marines gathered Monday to mourn the death of a decorated Marine who survived a land mine explosion during Operation Iraqi Freedom only to be shot dead while on a weekend leave in Long Beach.

Lance Cpl. Sok Khak Ung, a 22-year-old combat engineer who participated in the rescue operation of Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch in April and was awarded the Purple Heart for taking shrapnel to the leg two weeks later, died early Sunday after a gunman opened fire as he and several friends were barbecuing oysters behind his father's home.

"It's a real shame to think that he went to hell and back in Iraq and sacrificed so much only to come back here and get killed like this,' said Gunnery Sgt. Graham Hilson, who served alongside Ung in Iraq. "It just goes to show you that sometimes it's more dangerous over here than it is in war.'

<snip>

U.S. Marine Corps records also show that Ung was part of the diversionary force during the April 1 rescue of Lynch at the Saddam Hospital in Nasiriyah, where his military unit the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit was stationed through much of April.

Isn't this the 2nd Marine associated with rescue that has been killed? I seem to remember 1 died in a car accident days after returning home.

[GainesT1958]

1. Yes, he is...

Kind of eerie, isn't it?

B-)

[trotsky]

2. Spoooooky

The rest of her rescuers had better be very careful.

But note how the quote plays right into Republican spin about the war: "It just goes to show you that sometimes it's more dangerous over here than it is in war."

Sure, downplay the brave men & women who are being killed and maimed in *'s oil war. Hey, since it's so dangerous over here, shouldn't we have troops protecting us?

[kayell]

38. Be very careful what you wish for

It may become "necessary" for the Bushites to assign troops to guard areas known to be full of brown people and liberals to protect us from the wrath of loyal 'murkins. Possibly to build walls to that will protect us by keeping the ever more angry loyal 'murkins from dragging us off. Maybe some curfews and guards... :tinfoilhat:

[demnan]

3. Let me get that tin foil hat on before I read stuff like this

:tinfoilhat:

[theivoryqueen]

4. very odd "coincidence".

The rate of serendipitous convergences of convient concidences is rather high with this admin.

[theivoryqueen]

5. oops - convenient.

[Minstrel Boy]

18. well said, even with the typo n/t

[qanda]

6. You are right.

I'll look for the story, but it was a one vehicle car accident. I believe he was on his way to visit his fiance.

[CarlosNH]

10. Yes

It was a one-car accident. The rest had better be very very careful.

[CO Liberal]

43. Wasn't Karen Silkwood Killed in a One-Car Accident?

:tinfoilhat:

[niyad]

46. I had exactly the same thought

[Must_B_Free]

47. And Lady Di?

?

[Brotherjohn]

7. Creeeeeppppyy!

nt

[TheLastMohican]

8. The witnesses are being taken out

Sooner or later some of these guys will start talking and telling the truth while Jessica collects on her best-seller. Not a convinient neo-con stunt.

[amish_enforcer]

25. Of course.....

....we can't have them on talk-shows and radio talking about what was the real deal, as it may conflict with the "what really happened" version of the upcoming NBC tv-movie "Saving Private Lynch"....huh? How does NBC know the real story? BullShit with a capital B

[Guaranteed]

27. Naaahh....

You really think PNAC would start taking people out over the stupid Jessica Lynch story?

[amish_enforcer]

29. No....

actually I was saying it's NBC ! :7

Could it be PNAC, not likely, but hey, if they can cover their loose-ends.....why not?

[Guaranteed]

35. I don't think it's likely this is anyone.

This isn't the kind of thing people get killed over. It's totally spinnable in either direction, and, on top of it all, no one really cares.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. Long Beach really isn't that much different than Baghdad

We have simply exported our "culture" to them.

[Stupdworld]

11. Just another bush murder

wellstone, hookers in hotel rooms, marines who could blow the cover of his vicious lies. Bush will kill anyone he wants at any time in any way possible. check your brake lines people! the bush gestapo is everywhere!!!!!!!

[bluedog]

12. anybody know

off hand what the name and state oof the other soldier who was killed?
I suggest we keep a list of this.....way too strange...

[bluedog]

20. GOT the Story....Josh Speer ..SC .....7/7/03

GREENVILLE, S.C., July 7, 2003



(AP) A U.S. Marine who was part of the unit that helped rescue Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch died in a car crash on his first weekend home since returning from Iraq.

Josh Speer was killed when his car veered off the road in Greenville County, S.C., overturned several times and ran into a tree at about 8 a.m. Sunday morning. The 21-year-old soldier was heading to see his fiancee.

Capt. Shawn Turner, a Marine Corps spokesman, said Speer served in the Marine unit that aided in Lynch's rescue. Turner said details of what Speer's unit did to help Lynch, the Army private captured by Iraqis, were unavailable.

Speer was wearing his seat belt, state Highway Patrol Lance Cpl. Dan Marsceau said.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/09/iraq/main562365.shtml

[Guaranteed]

45. Welp, that is odd.

Gimme one more and we'll have a legitimate conspiracy.

[Wickerman]

13. Interesting - two dead, and just this morning on Today

they had the Iraqi "hero" who risked life and limb to offer up the information on little Jessica. He snuck across the no man's land to find Americans as he was so appalled by the treatment Jessica was receiving. He saw an Iraqi Colonel SLAP her! US soldiers grilled him for hours. Then, he had to sneak back into Iraqi territory. There, he had to use his Kung Fu to fight off his neighbors who wanted to turn him into Iraqi authorities. This was followed by a car chase, bombs falling near him, etc. He was actually blinded in one eye by shrapnel. He did this all for Jessica, never thinking of himself.

Oh, he has a new book out, and a movie to follow.

[theivoryqueen]

14. I saw that

and it seemed like Katy Courick (sp?) was gritting her teeth.

[tlcandie]

68. Why didn't they bother to interview the doctor and nurse who cared

for Lynch while in the nice Baghdad hospital where she was treated royally?

[Wickerman]

69. I think it was more of an effort to prop up Bush* and to

plug Mr. Kung Fu hero's new book and movie deal. But I understand your delimna, its so easy to confuse "the news" with News.

[Brotherjohn]

15. Statistically speaking, what are the chances of this?

If the mortality rate from unnatural causes of men in their 20's is X (say 0.5% in a year), and two men from the same limited group die within a few months, wouldn't that make this death rate from unnatural causes astronomically high compared to the average?

In other words, can someone better than me run the stats generate the following conclusion:
1) The death rate from unnatural causes for young men in the U.S. is X.
2) The death rate from unnatural causes for young men who participated in the Jessica Lynch rescue is Y times X (probably several, if not hundreds or thousands, of times greater).

It seems the chances of two men from the same limited group dying of unnatural causes within the same year are pretty remote, if not astronomical.

[northzax]

22. not neccesarily

think of it this way. This Marine obviously came from a less er, affluent area of Long Beach. He most likely was related to people involved in Gang activity, since the level of gang activity in this part of LB is really quite high. and he got shot. do you know what the odds are for a young man, especially a minority, in this country to get shot before the age of 25? in urban areas? really pretty damn high. we go to war with Iraq claiming a tentative connection to 9/11, which killed 3,000 people (a bullshit connection, but one was claimed none the less) meanwhile, three times that many people are killed every year with guns in this country. the same people who wanted to disarm the Iraqis based on the threat to Americans will fight tooth and nail to avoid the disarmament of Americans, a much greater threat to the lives of certain Americans.

I would wager that this Marine was, statistically, only margianally less likely to be shot in Long Beach than in Baghdad.

[Brotherjohn]

24. I accept that he had an elevated risk of homicide if he lived in a ...

lesser affluent area.

Nevertheless, his chance of being gunned down within a few months of returning to the U.S. was still probably less than 1%.

And the chance of the other guy dying in a car crash within a few months (I think it was days) of returning was likewise small.

The chances of BOTH of these things happening in a group of perhaps only a few dozen soldiers involved in the Lynch resuce seems to me to be very remote indeed.

Again, I don't have the know-how to do the stats, but if you were trying to figure out the chance of them happening to the same person, you'd multiply the two probabilities together (1/100 chance of gunshot times 1/100 chance of auto accident = 1/10,000 chance of both). It gets more complicated, though, since these were two individuals. But, however elevated due to circumstances, I'd still guess the risk of either of these men dying in the ways they did would be much less than 1% within the first few months of returning.

[northzax]

32. anybody's chance of being killed at any time

is very low. until it actually happens to you.

read the story, this guy was an engineer. attached to the group that 'rescued' Pfc Lynch. that probably describes a thousand men.

take any thousand young men. expose them to high levels of stress for months on end. return them home. what do you think the odds that one of them will get in a car crash eager to get over to his girlfriend's house and get laid? hell, if you separated me from my girlfriend for a year, and then set me loose, I'd be speeding like a mutherfucker to get over there and see her. add fatigue from months of over stress, and eh voila! a car accident waiting to happen.
As for this ppor guy in Long Beach, we have no idea what the context was. was his brother a Gang member? was he a former gang member? is there a gan war going on right now? (there is in DC, for instance) all these contribute. What if we learn that the guy he was killed alongside of was the largest dealer on the block? would that raise his odds enough to you to dispose of the tin foil? two relatively non-suspicious deaths out of a thousand or so young men, living violent, high stress existences, does not a statistical cluster make.

[Brotherjohn]

48. Call it just another shooting if you want. But...

... by any definition, this was a hit. A hooded gunman reached over the fence and killed this man. While it is not known if this particular man (the soldier) was the target, it is obvious that someone in the yard was a planned target of a hit. By whom, we do not know. The police have no known motive. This death is, by definition, suspicious.

It is not "just another shooting", as you imply in another reply. Most shooting deaths are people who know one another (family arguments, etc.) or suicides. This was an anonymous, planned hit. Likewise, the other man's accident was not "just another accident". It was the one kind of accident that could result in suspicion being cast (single driver, empty road, no witnesses).

Again, I accept that both men may have been at an elevated risk of early death for various reasons (although most of what you present to suggest this is also mere conjecture). I also accept, and was going to point out myself, that there may have been 1000 soldiers connected to the Jessica Lynch rescue.

However, I still believe even 2 of 1000 men dying unnatural (and yes, suspicious) deaths within months of returning home is WAY above average based on known murder & accident rates. I am not even saying there is a conspiracy, or that both of these men were offed by PNAC. I was initially posting to ask if anyone had the know-how to run statistics and probabilities on something like this, to try to quantify just how unlikely these events were. As you point out in another thread about "bad" statistical analysis, I was simply asking if anyone had the know-how to run "good" statistics to quantify the chances of two men in a group of, say, 1000, suffering such deaths in such a time period. Conspiracy or not, bad neighborhoods or not, I believe it is VERY unlikely. You are right to point out that the chance of ANYONE dying such a death is unlikely, yet it happens. But if I understand the laws of probability correctly, the chance of TWO such events is much, much more unlikely (in a multiplicative or exponential way).

I agree with much of what you have posted elsewhere in this thread, but I also think you are dismissing the potentially suspicious circumstances around both deaths. Yes, we should not "cry wolf", and there is a risk of conservatives using stuff like this to say "so you say Bush has ruined the economy? You also say Bush ordered hits on ex-soldiers in CA!" and laughing us off. But this is a board for discussion of these things. It is not a formal press release by the Democratic Party. Such discussions are going to occur. I tend to lean with you, that these deaths are unrelated. But it does make me go "Hmmmmnn".

[northzax]

54. let me expound

on your thoughtful comments. This has all the rings of a gang shooting. And yes, innocent people are killed every day in gang style shootings, people with no direct connection to gangs whatsoever, who are in the wrong place at the wrong time. I wish to cast no aspersions on this Marine in particular.

BUT. when I hear about a shooting that fits a gang profile, in an area known for gang activity, I tend to think: "hmm, gang related" until someone demonstrates differently. Ockham's Razor requires it.

[Brotherjohn]

56. I agree, as an ISOLATED incident, that this would be the most likely...

... explanation.

It still may be. But the fact that another soldier involved in the Lynch rescue also died a sudden, unnatural death at the very least raises a flag. It is as some others have suggested here: what if another soldier associated with the Lynch operation dies an untimely death? It is merely that a second death puts us closer to that, and we are keeping our eyes peeled.

If, as you and I both suggested, there were maybe 1000 (or more) soldiers "involved" in the rescue, it becomes more likely that it is just coincidence. But if, say, there were 10, 20 or even 50 soldiers "involved", and these were two of them, then this connection becomes more relevant simply because it becomes a tighter connection between the two.

[northzax]

72. well obviously,

as the numbers of potential subjects diminish, the greater the likelihood of a causal relationship between incidents occurs. But I would wager that if an 'engineer' was listed as being involved, then the numbers are really much higher than 10-50. I don't see an engineer toting a weapon sliding down a static line onto the roof of a hospital, do you?

[absolutezero]

75. I've got your stats

On Edit; sorry wrong numbers...I'm gonna redo the math

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. Sounds like too many people know the real story.

[devinsgram]

17. Another one for the Bush Body count,

the others in the group had better be very careful.

[terrisel]

19. How Many People Considered in The Group

How many people are considered in the group involved in the rescue ? Are they using the term loosely or were both of these men actively involved-either in communications or in-person?

[terrisel]

21. Anyone in contact with the angry father of soldier killed

I recall that the parent of a soldier who was killed (I think in the reported ambush) has objected in public to the Lynch publicity ? Is anyone here in contact with him ? I wonder what he thinks?

[Nihil]

23. Probably along the lines of ...

"Oh sh*t ... I think I'd better keep my mouth shut for a few days ..."

[american_mutt]

26. rescue? what rescue?

Oh, you mean that PR photo-op, ok...

[Guaranteed]

28. Come on, guys.

The GOP doesn't care THAT much about the Jessica Lynch story.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

31. No, GOP doesn't. The people who staged it do though.

There is a lot of face to be lost if the originators of the lie are brought to light.

IMHO, it's either a high level Admin Black-Ops group comparable to Liddy et. al. with Nixon or a Renegade Military action.

[Guaranteed]

37. Man, it's just a story.

Most people already know that it at least wasn't entirely legitimate. Whether or not there's money to be made, it's not going to be enough to form a conspiracy over and start knocking off witnesses. This is just a stupid story that no one really cares that much about. It's not the JFK assassination. Coincidences happen.
I bet if you looked into the guy getting shot it would turn out there was some kind of typical reason for it.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

39. Wasn't ENTIRELY legitimate? It was ENTIRELY fabricated.

And if that is so, it's not about the money, it's about the exposure of a person or persons involved in the fabrication of the story.

The JL story was created at great expense to provide Americans with a hero to rally around and nelp further negate war opposition as "fringe" and "unpatriotic." They had no intention of the Iraqi Dr. ever becoming involved, they blanched when Lynch's father and mother denied the existance of their daughter's amnesia... In short, the whole operation brought new meaning to the anacronym SNAFU.

Just my opinion.

[Guaranteed]

42. Yes, I know that.

But not everyone does. What they DO know is that there was some "funny business" going on behind the scenes- yes, because of those very things you mentioned.
I know that PNAC has done and is doing plenty of extremely underhanded, nasty, unAmerican things. But they're not gonna kill people over the stupid Jessica Lynch story. No one cares about it!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

41. Care about Lynch? Their most visible war PR story? Hell yes!

Seems to be a lot of 'knowledgable losses' in the connect-the-dots department lately. One would have to be naive to not have serious suspicions about potential dirty tactics when the stakes involved are CONQUERING THE WORLD FOREVER.

There is such a thing as a tipping point for negative public opinion.

The petro-nazi cabal is feeling mighty close to that point of losing enough statistical credibility with their hardcore base of "support our prez, jesus and troops"-types to threaten the '04 (s)election or at least make it less certain than big money would like. This could be a road bump in the economic war against Europe and Asia.

Retired AF col. Sam Gardiner compiled 50 instances of lying spin about the war for publication with the help of Los Angeles Times reporter Mark Fineman. Fineman, 51, just died of an 'apparent heart attack' 9/23/03 on assignment in Baghdad.

Check out the number of expert micro-bioligists who have just died mysterious deaths in the last year.

AND SO MUCH MORE.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. Two down, how many to go? Lynch's family who denied the amnesia?

I'm sorry, the odds are a little too outrageous here.

<snip>
Police do not have a motive for the shooting, which occurred just after 1 a.m. Sunday when a hooded gunman reached over a wooden fence in the 1200 block of East Seventh Street and fired six to eight bullets. Ung, Tho and three others were in the back yard and a carport, enjoying barbecue and beer
<snip>

PNAC wil not take a chance and leave loose strings about to fuck up their designed hero... Or at least their involvement.

[northzax]

33. what odds?

please, save your conspiracy theories for the real thing. Making these types of spurious arguements makes us all look like whacko fringe types. think about it. If this Marine hadn't been there, this shooting, in a high crime, high drug area, probably wouldn't have even made the LA Times. welcome to urban America. people die by gun fire every fucking day. There were nine fatal shootings in DC last week alone. two people hit worked for Metro. Does this mean someone is taking out city bus drivers?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

34. Call me a fringe whacko, then.

This is a possibility that I am seriously considering at the moment. People in power seem to have a way of shifting morality of actions for the "greater good." This admin, being "appointed by God" would have no compunction against taking care of a potential leak if it felt that it would do harm to their planning or image.

I'm as entitled as you are to an opinion. The difference is, if I disagree with yours, I promise to try and not make it quit as personal.

Play nice, dude.

Listen to Greg Palast's latest: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/22/1529206&mode=thread&tid=29

While it doesn't speak of Lynch, he does touch on strange deaths and other "tin foil" subjects.

[northzax]

40. ok. you're a fringe whacko.

you are so eager to believe in evil that you find conspiracies under every stone, and satan in every accident. You are the same as the people convinced Bill Clinton was masterminding a drug smuggling ring from Mesa Arkansas. You have taken two completely unrelated events and projected your own biases onto them to make a connection. There is none.

And yes, it is personal. because simply by being on the same thread as you, we are now linked. and someone who may be reading this will think that DU is a home for tin foil wearing grassy knoll seeing black helicopter types. And then when we point out how Bush is looting the treasury, they can say "you mean like he was killing soldiers in Long Beach?" and laugh.

Wake up. you are letting your obsession with the omnipresent evil of the BFFE distract you from what's important: showing the American people what the Bush Clan is doing to America. And until there is some evidence, what they are not doing is sending hooded thugs into gang ridden areas and killing people. show some evidence besides bad statistical analysis. There isn't any, except your belief that somehow, the government is killing people, one by one. oookay.

Have you ever read the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf? I heartily reccomend it. In fact, here's an Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/014054612X/qid=1066760625/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/103-4187177-1622206?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


Save your bullets (pun intended) for the real stuff, don't waste it on this tragedy.

[Guaranteed]

44. Well said, North.

Not that we don't love Billy Pilgrim, because we do. :) Billy's just very enthusiastic, is all!

[zonmoy]

50. He wasnt masterminding anything

he was being manipulated by the cia who was doing all the drug smuggling.

[northzax]

53. er, I think you have the wrong president Bush

this one doesn't like the CIA, remember? it cuts into his buddies' business ops. It's not about the CIA, it's about privatisation. Private individuals are much better drug smugglers that the government, more efficient, you see.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

51. You're self defeating in your "purpose" of saving DU from being

thought of as being full of "fringe whackos."

The thread is continuing and growing in explanations of OPINIONS by your taking such hostile issue with those opinions different than your own. Of course, no politician or high ranking public servant would EVER consider clandestinely doing harm to an American citizen for political gain. Just like Rummy, Condi, Dick and George are saying: "all is good and under control."

Sure thing.

What is it? If someone does not believe as you do, the should be consigned to "whackoville?" Are you that omnipotent that your view dwarfs all others? Get over it and find another thread to hijack with your boundless wisdom so others may be enlightened by your superior thought processes.

[northzax]

55. no

just that those posting the most unlikely explanations should be prepared to have some evidence to back them up. Frankly, I think it was the DLC trying to set a sting operation to make people suspect Bush. But I have no evidence, just a feeling.

[Brotherjohn]

57. That is just what people are posting... a feeling.

As are you. Perhaps a more likely "feeling". But you have no evidence (and I mean zero) to indicate it was a gang shooting either. You just have a hunch. Perhaps based on more likely scenarios, but a hunch nonetheless.

[northzax]

71. actually, I do have evidence

it was a gang style execution in a neighborhood with lots of gang activity. That there is some serious circumstantial evidence, don't you think? If this had happened in say, SW DC, a majority Black neighborhood, but one not known for gang activity, I'd be more suspicious, as I would in Brentwood. This fits a pattern of gang activity, ergo it should be the working explanation until such a time as evidence to the contrary comes to light. but that's just my opinion.

[lostnfound]

49. Ok, fringe whacko, bet you thought MLK was a conspiracy too!

;) Oh, I know, that civil court case and all, but hey, the conspiracy didn't get explained on CNN so it must not be real, right?

I don't know whether this sad case is suspicious or not, but I do know this: Once upon a time I would have believed a Jessica Lynch rescue and would never have doubted its authenticity, because I had preconceived ideas about the basic decency of those in power.

Out with the trash.

[saskatoon]

59. Tin hat theory? How long had the Marine been back?

If I remember correctly there weren't that many involved in the scenario of those who supposedly rescued her and her parents denial re amnesia,I beleive is the clue because that's what the whole thing was based on.

[northzax]

73. read the other posts

this Marine was simply listed as being part of the unit that 'saved Pfc Lynch' THe diversionary forces is listed as the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit.

According to the 15MEU's website, http://www.15meu.usmc.mil/what_is_a_meu.htm it consists of 2100 people. 2 fatalities out of 2100 people is not that unusual.

[Minstrel Boy]

36. Though I'm not a coincidence theorist, I was

prepared to dismiss this one as a weird coincidence. (I mean, I can't be wearing :tinfoilhat: all the time, can I?) But reading the story, clearly this wasn't a random act:

Police do not have a motive for the shooting, which occurred just after 1 a.m. Sunday when a hooded gunman reached over a wooden fence in the 1200 block of East Seventh Street and fired six to eight bullets.

Add this to the single vehicular incident, and clearly this needs monitoring. One more "accident" and - well, what then? What can we do? Not much, besides take flack for being "conspiracy nuts" I guess, even though at the time of the Lynch "rescue" I recall people voicing concern for the welfare of those soldiers who knew the truth. Which is why some bad, powerful people keep getting away with powerfully bad shit.

[JackDragna]

52. Here's some more "flak" for you.

Why would an administration that ran an illegal war in Iraq care what public opinion would be over a fabricated Lynch story? People just don't care. Look at the graphic at the top of the thread to see how many of them still think Al Qaeda had ties to Hussein.

The government does pull dirty tricks, but always it balances the need for the trick against the hell they'd catch for being caught. All it would take is one person mentioning that the government had a hand in such assassinations and the damage would be much greater than a screwy rescue story.

[Minstrel Boy]

62. Undecided on this, though I think it deserves attention. But

I found this comment of yours sadly naive:

"All it would take is one person mentioning that the government had a hand in such assassinations and the damage would be much greater...."

Judging by the reaction even here to the postulation of government-sanctioned assassination, I think you're being tragically optomistic.

A civil court found, in 1999, that the US government conspired to kill Martin Luther King. How has it been held to account?

[nini]

58. supposedly he was shot from over the fence

I saw this on the local news last night and they said someone reached over from the other side of the fence and shot him 3 times.. Seems they knew exactly who to go after. If it was gang related.. they'd wouldn't give a damn who they hit.

I forgot about the other guy killed in the car accident.. I think I'm gonna be sick.

[henslee]

61. So how many more witnesses to the Lnych thing were there? (on edit)

I've been going to long beach for years.Though its possible for this to be gang related, its hard to tell with the facts we have. It is definitely not a drive-by, though someone probably got out of a car and got back in one after the deed. If the neighborhood was dense residential as I suspect, perhaps there are witnesses who saw vehicles.

I wonder what the statistical odds are of both these guys getting whacked..

[grasswire]

66. and...

...the shooter was wearing a black hood and had a mustache, I heard on CNN. I don't know how you could see a mustache through a hood, tho.

[montana_hazeleyes]

60. To me

It smells odd. Makes my blood run cold. Just does.

[tom_paine]

63. Agreed.

Too much creepy shit going on lately. Too many coincidences and "trifectas".

Too many assaulted and dead Democrats since 2000.

Cui Bono? (who benefits)

[goforit]

64. Is there a war on????..............and it is here???.....Hmmmm

Well.....What are y'all gonna do???

[Nottingham]

65. Another ONe Bites the dust Cliff Baxter has company

Unbelievable :bounce:

[goforit]

67. Hmmmm.............How many more innocent will be slaughtered?

Has anyone called for help yet?

[tlcandie]

70. Ya, I called the Department of Homeland Security....

no reply as of yet, but said monitoring it closely :spank:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

74. 2 JL rescuers elimated...the 1st was killed in a ...ahem...car accident