LAT: Ford, Honda Unveil Latest Hybrids at Sierra Club Convention

[DeepModem Mom]

Ford, Honda Unveil Latest Hybrids at Sierra Club Convention
From Associated Press


SAN FRANCISCO — Three major automakers unveiled their latest hybrid cars and technology at an environmental conference today, promoting their most fuel efficient vehicles as gas prices soar in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Ford Motor Co., Honda Motor Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. brought their hybrid vehicles, which run on a combination of gasoline and electricity, to the first national convention of the Sierra Club, the country's largest environmental organization.

Environmentalists have criticized the auto industry for failing to produce more fuel efficient cars, but the Sierra Club wants to help automakers promote hybrid technology by organizing what it called "the world's largest showcase of hybrid cars."...

***

At the Sierra Summit, Ford offered consumers their first peek at their latest hybrid sports utility vehicle -- the 2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid. The compact, four-wheel-drive SUV can get 33 miles per gallon in the city and 29 miles per gallon on highways.

The Mercury Mariner Hybrid and Ford's first hybrid SUV -- the Ford Escape Hybrid -- are just the latest examples of the Dearborn, Mich.-based company's efforts to produce more environmentally friendly vehicles, said Niel Golightly, Ford's director of sustainable business strategies....


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-090905hybrid_wr,0,7801033.story?coll=la-tot-promo&track=morenews

[BiggJawn]

1. Take a "baby SUV", stick an electric motor-generator and a battery in it..

And you have a "Hybrid". $45,000, please...

29 miles to the gallon. My brother had a 1963 VW that could do that, and I had a 1982 Olds Delta 88 that could get 26.

It's all bullshit. They take a junior SUV, patch and cobble an add-on electrical system into it, increase the mileage 2-4 MPG, and we're supposed to cream ourselves waiting in line for one.

[Strelnikov_]

2. Fully Agree. Of These, The Honda At 50 mpg Is The Only One

to crow about. And I had an 83 Civic that got 40 mpg, so 50 mpg out of a hybrid Civic just does not get me that excited.

How about a 60 HP VW TDI engine, paired with the Toyota HSD hybrid system, along with a 20 mi. electric range PHEV system, in the Prius form factor. We would have a 120 mpg (equivalent) car for about $27k. That would be something to get excited about.

[merwin]

4. I have a TDI right now... 105hp (i think), and gets average 45mpg.

I've been wanting a TDI hybrid for a long time. That would be far too good of an idea for the car companies to implement.

[Strelnikov_]

5. Here Is What You Can Do With A TDI If You Try

VW Lupo 74/94 mpg

http://www.tc.gc.ca/programs/environment/atvpgm/vehdesc/volkswag/00_lupo.pdf

05 Jetta TDI here.

[merwin]

6. Mine's an 05 too :-)

That Lupo is a damn light car! Around 1800lbs. Personally, I'll never buy a light car again. After going through 2 Geo Storm's (both hydroplaning), I'll stick to ones a bit heavier :-)

[Joebert]

8. The Merc was released because some Escape customers wanted "luxury"

I have an Escape Hybrid, and it's wonderful. 4x4 @ 32mpg.

Yes, I could get better mpg with many other vehicles.

Fewer have better emissions. But none can handle the snow that we get in Colorado.

I don't need leather.

I don't need wood trim.

I want fantastic emissions, decent mpg, cargo capability and the ability to traverse snow.

Nothing really matched up.

And as a bonus, it's built in America, which was nice.

[Jackpine Radical]

26. 4x4, 28-30 mpg highway. For about $20,000.

They call 'em Subarus.

[Joebert]

29. How's the mpg in town? The emissions?

Every Subaru I've been in is small and uncomfortable. That's Forresters, Outbacks, Bajas, all of them.

[Jackpine Radical]

33. We get 23-25 in town depending on things like A/C.

As far as small & uncomfortable, I certainly agree about the back seat, though the dog doesn't seem to mind. With respect to the front seat, chacun a son gout.

[artfan]

10. I disagree

my spouse is disabled and we need a larger vehicle. At the moment we have a full sized van and any improvement on milage would be a godsend.

[BiggJawn]

14. You don't want this one.

For what you pay extra because it's a "Hybrid" , you could pay for the 4 MPG hit on mileage over the life of the truck.

My point is that these "Hybrid SUV's" are just lipstick on a pig. They are not designed from the get-go as Hybrids.

Have you ever seen that "Scion" box-thing? Ugly, but it seems to have a bit of room, and I'm sure it's easier on a gallon than an Econoline...

[trogdor]

21. I have the Xa

Euros call it a "supermini." I love it. 37 MPG and actually seats four.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

11. "I had a 1982 Olds Delta 88 that could get 26."

What was in it? I mean, the engine?

I'm trying not to choke here, but I've got a '76 Cutlass with a 350 and an '89 Custom Cruiser with a 307. My brother used to have an '83 98, also with the 307. Maybe downhill with a tailwind we'd get 26 mpg.

Do elaborate.

[BiggJawn]

13. It had a 307, but I had "played with it".

Can't remember everything I did But I do remember that I had done some work on the carburetter. Don't remember if I tried playing with the computer chip or not.

Careful driving, too. Kept my foot out of it, used the CC on the highway.
I'd get around 20 in town.

[evworldeditor]

16. Want a real kick in the head.. how about a VW Beetle that gets 78 mpg

Check this out...

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/evworld/message/5225

also... http://www.max-mpg.com


EV WORLD
The Future In Motion(r)
http://www.evworld.com

[merwin]

3. Here's an idea, make fuel efficient versions of CARS you dumbasses!

I don't want a fucking SUV hybrid! I'd rather have something that gets 50-60mpg.

[trogdor]

22. The sad thing is, they could do it "off the shelf"

No weird tech, just different drivetrains. My Xa has a 1.5 liter motor and gets 37 MPG. In Japan, the same car has a 1.3 liter motor, and probably does better. Americans are just goddamned spoiled, and no automaker is willing to even try to offer an "mpg" version of anything unless the government makes them.

[LeftyMom]

7. Why the hell isn't Toyota bringing the Sienna hybrid to the US yet?

They already sell one in the Japanese market, if I recall correctly. The safest family vehicle on the road, with a hybrid powerplant under the hood? I'd be sooooo tempted and I don't think I'd be the only one. They'd sell a shitload of them.

[greenman3610]

9. hybrids are being modified by Do it yourselfers to get 80+ per gallon

http://www.iags.org/pih.htm

Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) are hybrid cars with an added battery. As the term suggests, plug-in hybrids - which look and perform much like "regular" cars - can be plugged in to a 120-volt outlet (for instance each night at home, or during the workday at a parking garage) and charged. Plug-ins run on the stored energy for much of a typical day's driving - depending on the size of the battery up to 60 miles per charge, far beyond the commute of an average American - and when the charge is used up, automatically keep running on the fuel in the fuel tank. A person who drives every day a distance shorter than the car's electric range would never have to dip into the fuel tank.

http://www.edrivesystems.com/Edrive-FAQ.html
Q1: Why plug-in hybrids (PHEVs)?
A: Plug-in hybrids offer the best chance of transitioning away from fossil fuels towards a renewably powered transportation future. Full sized electric vehicles suffer from limited range and may require up to 3 times the battery capacity of an EDrive equipped plug-in hybrid and still not be capable of satisfying 100% of a personís driving needs. At present, hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles suffer from astronomical cost (over $500,000), limited range (80-180 miles), low efficiency (compared to batteries) and most notably a lack of economically priced and widely available fuel. Plug-in hybrids however can be built today and provide a no-compromises solution that moves us away from fossil fuels.

  While none of these solutions (including plug-in hybrids) can stand alone on an economic basis today, with rising fuel costs, improved battery performance and reduced battery cost, plug-in hybrids offer the best hope of becoming economically viable within the next 5 years. EDrive Systems LLC aims to prove the concept for those early adopters willing to show the world that vehicles can be renewably powered without compromise and that we can move towards a cleaner, more renewable future. Many others may choose PHEVs as a solution that can be powered by U.S. energy sources without paying the hefty price of supporting countries that might not have our best interests in mind.

[Massacure]

32. But plug ins just replace miles per gallon with miles per pound.

Pound of coal that is. Your not getting anything out of that...

[JerseygirlCT]

12. Does anyone know why Subaru doesn't seem to be getting into

this?

I would have thought they'd be ahead on the push for better mileage. But I've read nothing.

I also agree the mileage being touted recently is pretty sad. Where's the really significant progress?

[IChing]

19. I get their newsletter and they will release one soon

My forester gets between 33-25 highway and 22 city. I got 33 traveling through
Nevada-Utah on one trip. Ford's answer is pathetic
When Subaru does it, you can bet it will be better than my gas powered forester

[JerseygirlCT]

20. That's what I've been hoping

My Forester (probably older than yours?) gets about 20-25. Not bad, but obviously could be lots better.

I'm greedy, though. I'd really like to see a little more room. Three little kids fit in that backseat -- three bigger ones or adults do not.

But I've loved all the Subarus we've owned. They make reliable cars. And I want the AWD in our winters here!

[tinrobot]

15. 33MPG - Big Whoop

I don't think this trend of putting in hybrid technology but still giving the car the same power as a V6/V8 is going save the world.

Hybrids can get 100mpg if you sacrifice a litte speed and power.

Better yet, run the hybrids on bidiesel and you'll get even more MPG and not have to get your fuel out of a Saudi Shiek's tit.

[DavidMS]

17. Its progress...

but Surburban Assault Vehicles still suffer from the neither fish nor fowl issue. There are better and cheaper off road vehicles (used Unimogs, Pinzgauers, Land Rovers, etc), better luxury vehicles (Lincon Town car, etc), and better socker mom mobiles (mini-vans). And I have never seen a Lincon Navagator splattered with mud, ever.

I see the biggest advantage of hybrids (besides enviromental and enonomical improvements) is the possibility of cheap easy to implement all wheel drive via wheel mounted traction motors. Which should improve performance under poor traction conditions.

[Vietnam68]

18. Batteries are a problem

Don't these things wear down their batteries pretty frequently? What's the plan for recycling all that lead and sulfur?

[NickB79]

23. The batteries are warrantied for 100,000 miles

So no, they don't wear down frequently. Honestly, I have yet to hear of even one hybrid owner wearing out a battery on his or her Prius, and they've been out for a few years now. And the cars don't use conventional lead car batteries; they are nickel metal hydride batteries that are much more environmentally sound and hold a much larger charge longer. When those batteries do wear out, they will be recycled, just like we have recycled conventional car batteries for decades.

[kostya]

25. well, ... at least hybrids are getting noticed and that

means that an education process has begun. NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride) batteries are the storage units for hybrids, not lead-acid batteries, and they'll last 150K+ miles easily. 90% of the software in these babies is all about battery management.

Anyway, I wish people would quit emphasizing the fuel economy so much and realize that these designs are also getting us very close to a zero emission vehicle. Toyota is way ahead on that score. - K

[DeepModem Mom]

27. Welcome to DU, Vietnam68!

[goforit]

24. I swear I will never buy another.........

American car again because they purposely sabatoged this country
along with their buddy Oil Oligopolies to the disaster we
now stand in.

What future did they give their own children????

We will have to wait and see.

[Hekate]

28. Garbage. Until they build a cheap truly high-mileage model...

... and actually DISTRIBUTE it, I will not believe their sincerity.

Auto manufacturers have had all the technology they need to do this for decades, but they lack motivation. At this point I believe the only motivation that will actually work is one imposed by the federal government -- as in, "Fellas, we have a national emergency. Just do it immediately. No excuses. Big fines to follow."

Quite a number of years ago I dragged my hubs to an Earth Day exhibit of battery-powered cars. They looked nice, new and comfy, but there were a few problems: the price range and the driving range. For our car-buying budget, I dismissed them as a rich man's toy. And as to how far one could drive, let's just say we lived a hundred miles from the nearest place that could service the little beast and it could go less than half that without recharging.

A couple of years ago I read in the LA Times that one of the major American auto-makers (can't remember which), in response to prodding from the feds under Clinton, created and leased a bunch of electric cars for city commuting. Every single person who leased one wanted to buy it. But the pilot project came to an end, Clinton was out of office, and as each person's lease came to an end the cars were recalled, never to be seen again. No motivation, right?

The Japanese auto-makers get it, and they have hybrids on the market. Our local dealerships will service them. There are other technologies available too -- one of my friends keeps talking up hydrogen power.

But my conclusion about American auto manufacturers remains the same: they're too wedded to Big Oil and they don't give a damn. The only thing that will motivate them is a federal hammer. California and other states are leading the way with clean-air regs, but they can only do so much without the feds.

Hekate

#Why won't the Chickenhawk cross the road?#
#Why isn't the Chickenhawk waitin' on the levee?#

[jab105]

30. We bought the 2005 Honda Civic Hybird a few weeks ago...

for just under $20K...

It is incredible, we've only filled up once, our first tank of gas got 525 miles (and we still had two bars of gas left)...we averaged 45 mpg...

This tank (only our second)we are averaging 49.9 mpg!! It is so much fun to see the instantaneuos mpg...and try to keep it high...

[NickB79]

31. Ford can suck it for all I care

Listen up Ford! I've bent over for you for the last time. When my girlfriend drives my old Taurus into the ground (it will probably die within a year) I'm going back to Toyota/Scion. I LOVE my new Scion xA, 32 mpg city and 40-42 mpg highway. My next car will be either another Toyota (the new Yaris being introduced in 2006 has caught my eye) or Honda (they are reported to be introducing a compact hatchback next year, already sold in Europe as the Honda Jazz). If I could afford one, I'd buy a Prius or Civic hybrid, but until then I don't need a hybrid to get 40+ mpg.