Gas prices hit staggering levels overseas

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=7f31e5ec374d934d

Big News Network.com Saturday 10th September, 2005 (UPI)

Hurricane Katrina's disruption has pushed gas prices in European countries to staggering levels.

The Los Angeles Times reports drivers in England are paying about one pound for a liter of gas, the equivalent of almost $7 a gallon. Adam Melasai, a London builder, said filling the tank of his Audi now costs him 80 pounds or around $150 a week.

snip...
Mexico is a major oil producer, but the country has few refineries, so the country is in the ironic situation of having a lot of crude oil and high-priced gas. In China, government controls have kept prices down, but there is a fuel shortage, gas station lines are long and a black market for gas is growing.


They haven't seen nothing yet!!!

[buzzsaw_23]

1. Just posted this in LBN which relates to your post

How long before we have rationing here? In some ways we need it to curb the gluttony. In other ways it is so complicated, the problems of our transport that is. Natural gas prices will skyrocket this winter and that also means high electric prices. It's gonna be a rough one I'm afraid.


Secret plan to ration fuel on the forecourt

Ministers draw up crisis strategy to combat petrol protests as prices soar

By Francis Elliott, Deputy Political Editor

Published: 11 September 2005

Motorists face rationing at petrol stations under emergency plans that are being drawn up by ministers to combat this week's fuel protests, The Independent on Sunday has learnt.

Ministers met secretly last week to finalise the Government's response to blockades of Britain's refineries threatened for Wednesday.

<snip>

Planned measures to combat a successful blockade include rationing of supplies, limiting the hours during which petrol can be sold and reserving some filling stations for "priority users". Leading hauliers were called in for a meeting with Department of Trade and Industry officials last week, at which they were warned that police have new powers to remove blockades.

<snip>

Disquiet about rising fuel costs is set to deepen over the coming days as more energy suppliers introduce sharp price hikes. British Gas led the way last week when it increased prices by an astonishing 14.2 per cent.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article311812...

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. Note the rationing, if it happens

will be caused by the protests, not by a lack of fuel. It will be the hauliers and similar, who decide they can't pass on their increased costs to their customers, who would be preventing the public from getting petrol.

[Porcupine]

2. Stove fuel NOT gas is the killer price jump.

All over the world people who work in the factories that make your clothes, shoes, toys, plumbing and auto parts are in trouble. The price of the fuel they use to feed the little stoves that cook their rice, beans and corn has more than doubled.

They are not getting anything more in pay. This will ultimately lead to unrest in much of the world. These people live on thin margins already; it doesn't take much to throw them into rebellion.

[NEOBuckeye]

3. This is the prelude to a global revolution. Global capitalism is dead.

Does anyone have to wonder why the Bushes, Cheney, the Oil Companies and the NeoConservatives are acting the way they are? They know the gig is up. They've pinned their fortunes and their futures on the availability of cheap crude oil. Now that it's all but used up, their empire must come tumbling down. They are fighting it now by shredding our rights and installing opressive laws like the PATRIOT Act, but in the end, the people will rise up in great anger and obliterate the whole lot of them.

The world now faces an unprecendented crisis and what may be the greatest dislocation in human history. Globalization is dead, it's impending demise brought on by the extreme scarcity of its' very life's blood -- cheap energy, a.k.a. Oil. Local and Regional economies will be the way of the future.

[Maple]

4. Oh do stop

Globalization is not dead. It involves much more than an oil price hike...and much more than oil in general.

We had globalization before oil, and we'll have globalization after oil.

Protectionism and wars are the only road blocks, and those are only temporary.

[Porcupine]

8. Globalization before oil was luxury items only.

Spices, silk, exotic woods, furs and jewels. With slavery we were able to add sugar, tea and cofee to that list. Only with an oil economy does large scale global commerce become viable.

Oil economy globalization allows "just in time" delivery of items. Without a global ecomonic empire everything from bananas to socks to thermostats is subject to supply disruptions due to local politics.

Look at the airline industry slowly falling apart. GM, Ford and Chrysler are selling cars and trucks at cost. What's next?

[Maple]

9. No it wasn't

Globalization has been going on since before the Phoenicians set sail. And it has involved every trade good ever possible.

Sugar, tea and coffee didn't require slavery either.

'Just in time' delivery is an old Japanese management concept from the 80's and nothing to do with globalization.

Bananas, socks and thermostats come to you from elsewhere.

GM Ford and Chrysler are not the only automakers in the world. If they disappeared, the world wouldn't miss them.

The world can manage just fine without oil...we actually have lots of oil ...just no cheap oil.

And when one product becomes too expensive, we'll move to something cheaper. It's not exactly the first time things have changed you know.

[Porcupine]

10. So how do we replace green revolution crop yields?

Where does the fuel come from for transport of bulk goods. Admittidly container shipping is cheap on a fuel/tons/mile basis but by no means is it free.

The real cost of everything is going up based upon the resource needs of the people who actually produce goods. Those people are going to want cooking fuel, transport fuel and lighting. Right now that means petroleum. Pie in the sky technology is not getting to Indonesian factory workers anytime soon.

[Maple]

11. Switch to a different fuel

Goodness knows it won't be the first time we've done it.

There is no 'pie in the sky' technology. You are doing things right this instant that Victorians thought impossible nonsense.

[NEOBuckeye]

12. You make it sound so simple.

Transitions take time, and we are far from ready. Peak Oil is here, NOW.

Oil is what helped to build our modern infrastructure, and is what that same modern infrastructure depends upon. If we had started 20 or 30 years ago building wind turbines and solar panels, Peak Fossil fuel production might not even be an issue today.

Where are we going to get the energy to build all of this alternative infrastructure to run on new types of fuel?

[Maple]

13. It IS simple

and not the first time we've done it either.

[rustydad]

30. OK

When have we evolved into sustainability of fuel consumption post fossil fuel age? From wood to coal to oil and NG. Where too now with 6.5 billion and climbing? We may survive and i hope so. But the human population will need to come, way down, life styles of the first world will need to become far less energy intensive. Our economic system that is dependent on continuous growth has to go. The key to survival of the human specie is how it reacts to an energy deprivation. If it reacts with intelligence all may be good. If it reacts with violence all bets are off. Iraq is a resource war. WW2 in many ways was a resource war. WW3 if it comes to that will destroy the planet for humans. Done. Bob

[Maple]

31. We've used a wide variety of things

Dung, wood, coal, steam, alcohol, natural gas, oil...

We can switch again.

Fuel cells have been around for over a century, but somehow, even though we managed to put a man on the moon, we just somehow, someway can't seem to make fuel cells work. :D

Well at least that's been the official version...in reality we have them, and will use them.

Our population is fine. It will peak at about 9 billion, and then drop no doubt, just as the population of the western world is currently crashing. Food, health, education, pensions, women working...means fewer children.

However the world could sustain 15 billion agriculturally, and that's without hydroponics and GM.

You either grow continually or you stagnate. The world did not grow in the Dark Ages....that's why they were dark. ;-)

Don't worry...we'll make it to the stars yet

[mhr]

15. With Peak Oil - Wal-Mart Style Globalization Is Dead

The future will become much more local.

Look forward to your kids taking the Train for Christmas and the Steam Ship (and eventually the Sailing Ship) for that first honeymoon.

With Peak Oil the world will undergo substantial, if not radical, transformation.

[Maple]

16. There never was a 'Wal-Mart Style Globalization '

and no, we aren't going back to sailing ships.

Although I'm sure the Luddites would be thrilled at the idea.

[mhr]

17. Your Opinion Alone Does Not Negate The Facts

You are using opposition style debating tactics - dismiss with an unsupported assertion (your opinion).

Justify your premises or do not bother with a reply.

Peak Oil is a well known commodity on these boards.

It has been debated for well over a year now.

If you have proof that it is not a factor then prove it.

[Maple]

18. It's my profession.

Peak oil is hokum.

We have LOTS of oil. We just don't have any more CHEAP oil.

Now pay up, or find an alternative.

And the world will...pdq.

Just watch

[mhr]

19. The Second Oldest Debating Trick - Appeal To Authority

You won't be able to slide on that old trick either.

Once we reach Peak we will forever have less to use for transportation, and there are no known substitutes for things like Jet Fuel (my profession).

See the Hirsch report here:

http://www.mnforsustain.org/oil_peaking_of_world_oil_production_study_hirsch.htm

[Maple]

20. No...I'm afraid you're being paranoid

There is plenty of oil on the planet.

It just won't be cheap

And in any case, yes, there are alternatives

But you are welcome to your Ludditeism and your cave.

[mhr]

21. The Third Best Debating Trick - Denigrate The Opponent

You are following the opposition stratagem to perfection.

I think your lack of intellectual rigor has been thoroughly exposed.

Enjoy your own version ludditism - an excessive belief in future solutions that may never materialize.

[Maple]

22. Why are you expecting tricks exactly?

Or 'opposition' as though it were some kind of enemy?

Are you that paranoid??

It's what I work with every day

I'm simply telling you we are not out of oil, and the world isn't ending. I'm sorry if that disappoints you!

Don't blame your ludditeism on others who are better informed.

You are living in the future Victorians said was nonsense.

[mhr]

23. If You Had Bothered To Read The Hirsch Report

You would see that the problem is not running out of energy it is running out of suitable liquid fuels.

Since our modern world relies on liquid fuels to make all of our lives comfortable, the loss (reduction) of such liquid fuels will have a dramatic impact on the structure of our societies going forward.

That is what Peak Oil is all about.

Yes, there will always be oil; but, if the majority can't afford the refined liquid fuels then the world as we now know it will be very different indeed.

You need to study more.

[Maple]

24. I've read lots of reports

There are always scare 'reports' for people inclined to be scared.

Reality is another matter entirely.

Yes, the world will be different.

No, the world won't end.

Yes, the world will go forward.

[mhr]

26. Ah Yes - Another Debating Tactic - Dismiss The Evidence

The Hirsch report was authored by SAIC corporation at the request of the Department of Energy.

Hardly, scare mongering institutions.

Once again, your lack of intellectual curiosity is troubling.

Enjoy your ignorance.

[Maple]

27. LOL you're just being paranoid

or playing games, I'm not sure which.

There are literally thousands of energy reports floating about the world. All by valid groups. All have different opinions.

But if you wish to believe the world is ending, that's up to you.

Enjoy your bunker.

[mhr]

28. New Debating Tactic - Dismiss The Opponent As Addled

I have no plans of spending any of my days in a bunker.

Good websites you might spend time with to learn more.

www.energybulletin.net
www.globalpublicmedia.com
http://www.peakoil.net/
http://www.peakoil.net/uhdsg/Default.htm
http://www.postcarbon.org/node/790
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASPO
http://www.bartlett.house.gov/Events.asp

[Maple]

29. Yada yada

if I had a nickel for everytime I've read Malthusian warnings, over the years, from various groups with private agendas, on practically any topic, I'd be richer than Bill Gates.

Relax. We'll survive just fine.

Without a return to the Middle Ages.

[mhr]

32. Yada, Yada, Yada - New Debating Tactic - Blame Malthus

No one said we would return to the middle ages, just return to a much more local lifestyle than most Americans will easily adjust to.

It is amazing how limited your knowledge truly is.

[pushycat]

25. I believe

what NEOB says is true. Support your local CSA and live well.

[MisterP]

5. just like when the Golkar regime did what the IMF bosses said and let oil

prices float and pulled away support--big riots and a contribution to the East Asian Crisis

[lovuian]

6. Oil giants to slash gas prices in France

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=31c84d2d406e3b2f

Gas prices in France should drop as British Petroleum and Total have said they will cut oil prices in the country, the BBC reports.

This comes after French Finance Minister Thierry Breton threatened a new tax on oil companies in the battle against the soaring price of crude.

Breton was in Britain for a meeting of Europe's finance chiefs aimed at discussing oil prices

more...

Its amazing how much oil prices go down when the government threatens to tax their butts!!!

[Strelnikov_]

7. Supply Not Keeping Pace With Demand. Peak Oil?

Following is an article that outlines how the emergency energy reserves are coordinated by the IEA. It also mentions how the Europeans are pissed that they are paying high prices due to shipping us tankers of refined product so US drivers can run around in living rooms on wheels.

The Peak-Oil Crisis: The Storms of August
http://www.fcnp.com/527/peakoil.htm

Already, European editorial writers and columnists are starting to grumble. They raise the specter of Americans in Hummers, gobbling up Europe 's heating oil for next winter. The head of the IEA warned that there will be a worldwide energy crisis if the US tries to replace its missing oil production and gasoline refining by outbidding everyone else on the world market. As usual, it is the poor African nations that will suffer the most. Furthermore, it is becoming evident that $3-4 gasoline does not significantly reduce American consumption and that we will continue driving at our normal pace until stopped by still higher prices or general shortages.

Following article is more about the Europeans being pissed.

Europe: U.S. Should Ease Oil Use

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/10/news/international/energy_us.reut/index.htm

Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker told reporters at a meeting of finance ministers in Manchester the United States had to improve its energy efficiency. Asked whether European ministers had agreed on a document on oil efficiency for the G7 meetings in Washington, he said: "We will use our G7 meetings in Washington in two weeks to have a frank word with our American colleagues on the issue."


Following is a good summary of the demand destruction that is occurring in poorer countries that are being priced out of the oil market. Just another sign that peak oil has arrived, and the last man standing endgame has begun.

The Silent Oil Crisis
by James Howard
25 Aug 2005

http://www.energybulletin.net/8416.html

Just as rising sea levels threaten to flood low-lying lands unable to protect themselves, rising oil prices threaten countries with weak (low-lying) economies. Rising oil prices are a rising tide, and there are many examples to look at. The countries that will be first affected by rising oil prices are those with a more youthful oil-dependent economy or those that do not have the economic strength – either as a nation, or as individuals, to cope with it.

. . .

What we have seen then is just because the rising price of oil does not seem too damaging to us, it is already damaging many parts of the world where it is having a similar effect to how the 1970s oil crises affected the world. There are two obvious options left for everyone in the oil game, on whatever level. Those options are that you compete or you concede.


And, OPEC production has flatlined.

OPEC Output Increases Just 10,000 Barrels Per Day in August

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/09-09-2005/0004104012&EDATE=FRI+Sep+09+2005,+01:32+PM

"It is becoming increasingly obvious that in the short term most OPEC countries cannot produce much more than they are doing," said John Kingston, global director of oil at Platts. "We are seeing very small increments even though prices are higher, in nominal terms, than they have ever been."

[drduffy]

33. I also have to laugh a bit

when I hear eternal optimists denying the overwhelming evidence regarding peak oil and then also misinterpret what it means.

I intend to be as prepared as possible. If I don't have to farm my five acres to survive well and good. But I intend to have the option.