Body Search Accelerates as Death Toll Keeps Rising

[buzzsaw_23]

Body search accelerates as death toll keeps rising
By Mark Coultan, Herald Correspondent in New Orleans
September 12, 2005

The death toll in Louisiana rose to 154 on Saturday. In Mississippi it was 211. In Jefferson parish, in the western part of the New Orleans metropolitan area, the death toll was 20. In St Bernard parish, east of New Orleans, the toll was 62.

<snip>

The search and recovery teams, assisted by cadaver dogs, went house to house breaking in to check for bodies. They then marked each house with paint.

<snip>

This action caused distress among evacuated residents. They rang local radio to complain about their properties being violated, and saying that it would make their properties more vulnerable to looting.

The Governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco, reassured residents that their property rights would be respected and that no home would be demolished before people had a chance to return and collect belongings.

http://smh.com.au/news/world/body-search-accelerates-as-death-toll-keeps-rising/2005/09/11/1126377203656.html

[SheilaT]

1. This still seems incredibly low

given all the reports of bodies in the street. Plus, what about the one hundred in the warehouse?

It's simply not possible that fewer than a thousand died, given the horror of the disaster.

[bobbieinok]

2. and 1200 in Biloxi????

[IndyOp]

3. Context? Link?

The (pitiful) article above says 211 total for Miss.

[havocmom]

6. One day las week there were reports of 100 bodies in one place alone

which, the news reporter on site said, had not already been counted in the toll, which was over 200 at the time of the report.

They are making it all up. Wonder what the real numbers for Iraq are. Probably not getting truth there either.

They don't want pictures cuz they don't want proof their math is completely bogus.

[IndyOp]

7. They are making it all up. - Exactly.

Charmaine Neville said in her interview that she, and the people she was helping to rescue in NOLA, had to run past/over 100's of bodies.

And the current NOLA body count (according to this article) is 62?

What is that saying from Texas - probably in Tennessee, too - fool me once shame on - me? - can't get fooled again.

:nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr:

On edit: Keep an eye on the number of 'fires' happening -- I wonder if buildings with a lot of bodies in them are 'self-combusting'?

[havocmom]

13. About fires: Flood insurance is pricey, if you can get it.

Most businesses would keep fire insurance up though. Hmmm, an lots of Blackwater sightings in NOLA lately. Don't suppose the arson squad is doing a lot of invetsigating either.

[IndyOp]

17. Good point -

I have thought about that angle, too.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Actually flood insurance is not hard to get

because of the National Flood Insurance Plan that was instituted after Hurricane Andrew and for home owners it costs about $200 to $300 per year. It is well worth the cost if you have a nice house in a place that has any possibility of flooding.

As for the poor people who can't afford such things, well that is a different matter that needs to be addressed.

[havocmom]

36. We were refering to BUSINESSES, not homes

not as easy

[TexasBushwhacker]

40. Not if you live in a flood zone

and I'm sure that ALL of NOLA is considered a flood zone. It's only $200 to $300 if you live in an area that's considered low to moderate risk. If you live in a flood zone, it costs about $1200 per year for $150K of coverage.

[Liberty Belle]

28. Link to the Biloxi story,please?

[Skittles]

15. it is incredibly ridiculous is what it is

they're not coming clean with us at all

[Caria]

24. A Texas-based company (friend of *)

is taking over ALL of the mortician work. Are they cutting out the locals who might actually do a real count?

But if fewer died than at first suspected, that's good. And would show that the LOCAL officials did a much better job than they are getting credit for.

[jobycom]

25. They are only counting the bodies they have recovered and filled out

paperwork on. The number will grow.

In Biloxi, Gulfport and Hancock County, they have mostly recovered the bodies that were easy to get to. They have just begun trying to dig through rubble where they know there are bodies, to recover them. They have to lift the rubble with heavy equipment, which is hard to get down into the areas hardest hit. Roads are washed away, and blocked with debris.

Once they recover a body and bring it to a morgue and enter it into their filing system, they count it. Everyone knows the toll will be much higher, but that's the way they handle the counts.

I'm not sure how they are doing it in New Orleans, but I would guess it's similar. They have an additional issue in New Orleans, since many of the bodies are reported to have died after the storm, and not from the storm itself, so they can play around with the numbers a bit more.

One more point: the count may be lower. Remember how the WTC count kept falling. The early counts in Biloxi and Hancock County were based on rumors. If you have five people report to the mayor of Biloxi that they each saw a hundred dead, the mayor may assume there are hundreds dead. There's no way to be sure the five witnesses didn't count a lot of the same people, or overestimate their numbers.

Rumors float around like mad. There was a rumor that bodies were hanging from trees in Hancock County, where they had been drowned. Some rumors said there were some trees with dozens of bodies. So far, no one has found anything like this. There were similar rumors about Slidell, with hundreds of bodies, and so far that doesn't seem to be the case.

So the count so far is just a partial count, but hopefully the final total will not be as extreme as it is estimated. You can never trust early estimates in something like this. Too much confusion for anyone to know what's really happening.

[DoYouEverWonder]

31. Thanks for the rational response

The other thing they should and can do is to create a list of the missing. Then, like on 9-11 when they discover a person's remains or the person turns up in Alaska, their name is either removed from the list or switched to deceased. Then you would end of with a fairly accurate count that would include everyone who got swept out to sea and may never be recovered.

Also there are two distinct categories for cause of death from this disaster.

People who died during the hurricane itself, which would be an act of god. People who died afterward from neglect and/or flood which would fall under act of George. There is a good reason why they want to separate the two groups. Anyone in the second group is a needless death that can be directly attributed to the lack of action of the part of the WH and FEMA for the first week after the storm.

[jobycom]

37. There is a private group making a list of the missing

Someone from Yahoo has put together a data base of survivors in shelters. A lot of people have been hooked up through this, since the database also includes where they went. One of the networks did a story on the database, and showed a number of people finding loved ones through it. Of course, there are so many people spread out that not everyone is in the database.


I assume that city or federal officials have a missing persons list. But then again, as badly as they've screwed everything else up, who knows?

[NYC]

27. The Dutch were told to prepare for 10,000 dead.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4726864

What are we to think?

[jobycom]

38. That was based on a guess

They have no idea how many bodies they will find, and no way to make a good guess. Naygin was guessing high, but he was trying to get the feds off their butts more than give an accurate count.

In a disaster like this, or like the WTC, you have an idea of the body count from missing persons reports, and from other circumstantial evidence, like the number of distress calls you receive, from witness estimates. These estimates are always high, because witnesses exagerate or just overestimate, and several people report the same person missing.

In this case the missing people are even harder to verify, because people are spread out across the nation, so many "missing" are just separated in different shelters.

It's a real mess. No one knows what to expect. I have missing relatives and friends, too. We found one of them Friday, almost two weeks after the storm, alive and living with friends north of Baton Rouge. Others we haven't found yet, but they could be in similar circumstances.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

4. I'm not buying it!

All those houses still underwater must contain many dead.

[fooj]

5. I mentioned this last evening...

Does anyone remember the long line of 18 wheelers that were driving convoy from La. to Miss.? They had bodies in them all. There were 10-12 trucks. They interviewed a female coroner at a huge warehouse and she said they treated all of the deceased with respect when they arrived. Some people in the town were mad because they thought they should have held a meeting before agreeing to have the morgue from NO. Does anyone remember that. A few DUers did last evening...I'm trying to figure out where we saw that clip.

BTW- Remember that they loaded up a few C-130's from the airport, too.

Peace.

[dooner]

8. I saw part of it but don't know which news network

Probably either CNN or MSNBC or lastly maybe even Fox.

I was only 1/2 paying attention, but I assumed the trucks they were showing were the supplies to set up the "morgue". I remember them interviewing a woman who wasn't too happy because the morgue was in her town and nobody asked the neighbor's permission.

[fooj]

29. Yes. That was it. She thought they should have had a meeting

to discuss it.

Those trucks were full of corpses. You remember how big they were.

maybe they were hoping we'd forget.

peace.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. There was another thread talking about............

death toll and there was some technicality coming into play about deaths attributed to hurricane force winds? Something like that. That there would be many dead bodies found but wouldn't be attributed to Hurricane Katrina. Not "officially."

They'll cover it many different ways, I'm sure.

[MadisonProgressive]

18. The levees didn't break because of Katrina?

Or was it just due to explosive charges?

[miahlo]

10. Evidence they are cooking the books in the death toll

I'm new here and don't have enough posts to start a new thread, perhaps someone could copy and paste this post and start a thread in general discussion.

Here is the reason the death toll is so low.

The numbers are being cooked based on direct versus indirect deaths from Katrina.

They aren't counting lack of water, food, heat stroke, or disease in the death count.

Both these articles are from NOLA.com. Notice 152 bodies in the coroner's office, yet only 20???? from Katrina related deaths.


Saturday, September 10, 2005

Lee reports on deaths in Jefferson

Friday, 10:05 p.m.

Sheriff Harry Lee said Saturday night that the Jefferson Parish Coroner’s office had processed 152 bodies, but only 20 of those were deaths related to Hurricane Katrina. He said the coroner’s office was picking up bodies that are reported lying in the street and handling them to FEMA’s specifications. He also said that body count does not include bodies that may have been taken to the morgue in St. Gabriel.

Storm death toll reaches 197 in Louisiana

The confirmed death toll from Hurricane Katrina increased to 197 Sunday, state health department officials said late Sunday.

Although body-recovery operations were still under way, the death toll represents the number of bodies that have been counted where the deaths were a result of Katrina’s winds, rains or floodwaters, or those who died as a result of medical equipment that became inoperable during the hurricane.

State officials said that 161 bodies were being stored at a mobile morgue site in St. Gabriel about 20 miles south of Baton Rouge; three were in the St. Charles Parish morgue, 25 were in the Jefferson Parish morgue, five were in the St. Tammany Parish morgue and three were in the Iberia Parish morgue.

[buzzsaw_23]

11. Could you put up a few links and I'll post in GD

We need to start a compendium of all articles relating to the death toll to try to make a halfway honest count. They are going to completely cook the books on this.

[miahlo]

12. here are the links

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_09_11.html#078881

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_09_10.html#078783

[Tesla]

14. Didn't they put ol' Kathy"Toomuchmakeup" Harris on this to count the dead?

Why did she have to come from Florida to do this?

[IndyOp]

16. This could turn out to be an excellent strategy -

that turns out to reveal the truth - they report only deaths 'directly related to the hurricane' and that turns out to a tiny, tiny portion of total deaths that occurred between 8/29 & 9/12 (a two week period). That means * is responsible.

[olddad56]

19. Before it is over, the OFFICIAL FEMA death count will probably be about 4.

[agincourt]

20. The count of those missing,

is the only count that matters. Many of the bodies won't be found. There should be a total on missing soon.

[bluedeminredstate]

21. The eldery warehoused at the airport

certainly were full of people at death's door. Will they say they died from natural causes?
Yeah, take away someone's lifesaving daily meds/oxygen/dialysis/etc., and naturally people will die!!
What ass-covering ghouls! The disrespect is staggering.

:mad:

[Straight Shooter]

22. Secrets and lies. Secrets and lies.

The bush administration is nothing but secrets and lies.

[Infomaniac]

23. On Olbermann tonight...

I saw and heard something that just chilled me to the bone. It was about the number of children and adults reported missing. More than 2,000 children are missing and, of that number, only a few hundred have been found. As for the adults, there are 5300 adults missing and less than 200 have been located. I don't see how the gubbmint is going to keep the lid on the missing persons. Another thing. I don't think we should be dancing in the streets if the number is even far less than anticipated. In America, in 2005, drowning in a flood caused by neglect and Mother Nature shouldn't have a death toll higher than the number of fingers on your right hand. Just look at the Netherlands to see how technology, cutting-edge engineering and competent government can make that much of a difference in death tolls.

[jobycom]

26. Many of those may really just be out of touch.

Down in Mississippi and New Orleans the radio stations are constantly taking calls from people reading names on the air of missing people. A lot of them are found. Sometimes they call the stations to report they are okay.

When i was down there, I was helping an old friend of the family with some dogs at her house, and her sister-in-law showed up randomly. No one had been able to find this friend, because she had stayed in a house a few miles from the flood zone, and they had lost phone service. So this sister-in-law drove in from Baton Rouge and visited the washed out house several times, until finally she showed up just when we were there. Our friend had been reported missing, and even her son was afraid she was dead, but she was just out of contact.

The number of missing will shrink. Some will no doubt be dead, but even some of them will turn out to be bodies they've already recovered but not identified. Others will turn out to be in Charlotte, not realising their family is in Fort Worth.

I agree about the flooding. There is enough technology to make New Orleans safer. They had pumps over fifty years old in parts of the city, and the levees that failed were all dirt. The 17th street canal was dirt on one side, but had a concrete wall on the other, richer, side. Guess which side failed?

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. That is the way we will eventually get the real number

That is how they figured out how many died on 9-11.

You start with the list of missing and work backwards. Whoever is left of the list when you are done can be assumed to be dead.

[salin]

33. so is this why they are turning away the volunteer dmort folks

to PAY SCI corporate folks (tied to bush) - who turn around and try to hire the volunteers? So now we spend tax dollars on something we wouldn't have (somehow in bush world, privatization ALWAYS costs tax payers MORE dollars than not)... AND we have an entity that works for Bushco, not the people.

[teryang]

34. Obfuscation of the most basic government functions

Controlling floods and counting vital statistics of births and deaths, are the most elementary governmental functions. Why is it that our current regime obstructs both?

[MaineDem]

35. CNN crawl said mortuary working "around the clock"

How can they be processing bodies around the clock and only have 165 total deaths in LA?

[barb162]

41. Just a guess and that is the bodies

are so decayed by now

[WhiteTara]

39. so should we add a zero to the numbers to make them

add up correctly? Or should that be 2 zeros? :shrug:

[barb162]

42. I think the bodies will be found in the areas where the

water is deepest and flooded first, next to the levee breaks

[OregonBlue]

43. Jefferson Parish 152 bodies, 20 Katrina related, what about

the rest? Are some of those people shot while looting? How many bodies with bullet holes? God, this just gets worse. Glad some of you think we will get actual counts cause I'm not so sure.

[barb162]

44. I think there will be good body counts except for bodies that have

floated out into the gulf. Shrimp boat people and people in Plaquemine Parish, I think, will have a high count if their bodies are ever found. A lot of that parish is still under water.

[Miss Chybil]

45. So they're just going to destroy the houses without the people having any

say about it? I mean, I know a lot, if not most, of them will need to be torn down. But, isn't that a job for the homeowner and the insurance company to work out together? Shouldn't the homeowner be the one to hire the demolition and/or construction company to do the work on their home? Do these people have no rights over their property anymore because the government failed to protect them adequately? I don't get it.

[weiser]

46. games with numbers....

The GOP did the same with Iraqi civilian dead.... reporting few and then declining to report any more, because it give bad PR int he ME.

In NO they delayed the count and then tried to censor the media as the body count got underway! They obviously aren't going to get away with it, since the dead are Americans.

I expect the counting to continue for at least one month before an official tally. GOP spin doctors are working around the clock to turn around the slide! And Dems are giving them the space they need!!!