Kerry heads South with planeload of hurricane relief supplies

[sabra]

http://www.gadsdentimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050912/APN/509120691&cachetime=5

Kerry heads South with planeload of hurricane relief supplies

Sen. John Kerry flew south Monday with a planeload of supplies for Hurricane Katrina victims largely donated by Massachusetts businesses.

On board the UPS Boeing 757 were 5,000 bottles of baby formula donated by Children's Hospital, 5,000 pairs of sneakers from New Balance and an array of cleaning supplies from the New England Shelter for Homeless Veterans.

....

"Everything that any of us can do is so welcome, and it provides just a little bit of help at an extraordinary time," Kerry, D-Mass., said before he flew to Louisiana to help distribute the supplies and meet with local government officials.

....

"I think it is not a new criticism that the Homeland Security Department is not funded properly and they haven't had the kind of leadership necessary to prepare," Kerry said. He said Michael Brown, head of the Federal Emergency Management agency, should be fired, not reassigned as he was last week.

[katinmn]

1. Good for Kerry.

Where are the Repuke "leaders"? Oh yeah, they're busy trying to influence government contracts for big business.

[sabra]

2. Kerry shows true leadership.

Oh what could have been :-(

[katinmn]

3. Yes, with either Gore or Kerry

They screwed us both times.

[mondo joe]

4. I'm embarrassed. It feels like a stunt.

Gore's response was fast, and didn't involve talks with the press.

This feels more like when Kerry ride his motorcycle onto the Jay Leno set. :-(

[confludemocrat]

5. True, although he belatedly called the response criminal negligence, I gue

ss that's worth something. But you find yourself saying with him, not, "yeah! go man!", but "that's good, he finally came through".

[blm]

9. Kerry already crafted a legislative package for small businesses hit by

Katrina. Sorry you missed it. But then, some look more for hot words while others look for GOOD GOVERNANCE that truly helps those in need.



John Kerry Offers Major Package of Legislation to Help Small Businesses, Others Devastated by Hurricane Katrina

WASHINGTON, Sept. 9 /U.S. Newswire/ -- With estimates that more than 400,000 jobs will be lost as a result of Hurricane Katrina, Senator John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) today unveiled a package of emergency economic aid and federal assistance for small businesses and others reeling from the destruction in the Gulf Coast.

"It is clear that our government failed the people of the Gulf Coast. In time, those responsible will be held accountable for what has gone right and what has gone wrong. Right now, we need to make up for lost time and help any way we can, and that means targeting the fastest relief possible," said Senator Kerry. "Every small business we can help will help a hard-working family start to put the pieces of their lives back together. We should help small businesses rebuild themselves and these communities...

One of the most far-reaching pieces of the Kerry relief package will give small businesses across the country access to low-interest disaster loans to cope with the increased costs of oil and gas. This will especially benefit farmers, truck drivers and others whose livelihood relies heavily on the price of gas

In addition, the Kerry relief package also provides small businesses in the Gulf Region:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2082340&mesg_id=2082340

[TankLV]

183. He finally came thru. great.

But to be fair - it DOES take a more time for a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL to organize other groups of INDIVIDUALS and collect such items INDIVIDUALLY.

Unlike bunkerboy and the REPUKES WHO CONTROL EVERYTHING and have everything at their fingertips.

They can invade a country in a single day, but can't get to their own backyard.

[TayTay]

6. Bringing more relief supplies to people who need them

is a stunt? He organized the first planeload of relief supplies to fly into Mississippi two weeks ago, while he was actually still in Iraq and it's a stunt?

I am thrilled that Gore was able to help so many people in need. I am disturbed that some people find delivering relief supplies to needy people to be a stunt and some sort of ghoulish competition among Democrats. This is disgraceful.

[blm]

8. Except Kerry also did it with Hurricane Hugo. Kerry was in Iraq last week.

But the media always spins it differently, don't they?

Only people who don't really know Kerry spin his efforts against him, just as intended by the GOP operatives working against Kerry since 1971.... because they know he can be effective when unfiltered...like in the debates.

[ladylibertee]

169. Thank You

I am glad you said that. People really need the facts before they talk.

[Maven]

11. Agreed.

Sorry, but my gut reaction was "bleh."

If he was going to do something publicity-wise, I wish he had stuck to the aid package blm mentioned.

[karynnj]

17. Why not both?

Of course he should do whatever is possible via his elected position, but what is wrong with him co-ordinating a Boston area supply mission. People all over the country want to help - thank goodness there are people stepping forward to enable them to help.

He can't really secretly tell people that he can get stuff to the gulf states. Going himself (on a Monday when the Senate is not in session) and getting a personal view of the situation that he and others will be voting aid packages for seems reasonable. This gets real supplies to real people with real needs and does not impact his Senate work in any negative way. He and Teresa did quietly coordinate in conjunction with Lott a shipment of supplies to Mississippi two weeks ago. This is known only because Lott thanked Kerry in a Senate speech.

Even if you prefer another candidate for 2008, there is no reason to look for ulterior reasons when the record is clear that he has gone well beyond what would have been expected. He also spent a very long day speaking to Democrats in 5 NJ towns to try to get more people active, help strengthen grassroots and get volunteers. If this succeeds, it will help any candidate in the future - even your favorite!

[Stand and Fight]

15. So quick to criticize...

What, pray tell, have you done along these lines, mondo joe?

What, pray tell, have you done beyond sitting in front of your computer?

What, pray tell, is wrong with Kerry actually DOING something?

[mondo joe]

153. Usually it's the repugs who think we're not allowed to criticize.

But since this is DU, I'll simply say everything Kerry does smacks of political opportunism.

I'm glad more supplies are there for people who need them.

But I loathe the notion of Kerry getting the nomination again.

[Stand and Fight]

201. And I see you have NOT answered the questions put to you.

[HoosierClarkie]

23. Feel the same way.

Now he is saying that Brownie should be fired. He shouldv'e been the first one to say that, not wait until the polls said so.

[jwirr]

142. He said that brownie should be fired INSTEAD of

being allowed to resign. Resigning means he will get all the bennies from a job he did not even do right.

Also, it takes time to organize supplies while what Gore did was immediate rescue. Personally I think all of you doubters are full of it. Both men stepped ahead in their own area of expertise. In the spring you will see another Dem - Jimmy Carter push for work in his area. Bill Clinton? Well he is working for bushie?

[LTRS]

59. Yep

Good 'ole tone deaf Kerry, at it again. Gore is your man. He proved that as VP and he proved it during the 2000 campaign, and then again last week.

[blm]

118. Kerry's first supply plane went out the day after the hurricane.

Then he went to Iraq.

Then he crafted legislation for businesses effected byKatrina.

Then he secured a congressional hearing to investigate the 9-11 funds targeted for small business es that went to Bush cronies instead, so that exposure will prevent the same from happening to Katrina funds.

Then he spoke in NJ Saturday and said Bush's response bordered on "criminal negligence" and he also wrote a column for some nationwide distribution about what occurred
http://www.chicagodefender.com/page/commentary.cfm?ArticleID=2247

And now he's sending a second supply plane.

Just like he did after Hurricane Hugo....damn publicity hound...too bad everything kerry does is UNDERpublicized or people would know this stuff is done instinctively by him.

[karynnj]

146. The list was actually more impressive,

He not only spoke in NJ - he spoke in 5 cities in NJ (Paramus, Wayne and Morristown in the North, Edison in Central Jersey and in the Princeton area) The purpose was to support Corzine, but more fundamentally help strengthen grassroots and get people active.

In Morristown, in the heart of Morris County, the most Republican county in the state - this event planned on Monday, publicized on Thursday using Kerry's email list and some robot calls on Thursday and a Friday article in the local paper, had over 500 people! What's more 460 signed a list with contact information. If this was done in the other open events, Kerry has genuinely helped the state party.

If this were Dean, there would have been accolades galore.

[redqueen]

175. I'm glad you're around to help stop the nonsense.

:yourock:

[kipco]

226. I was thinking the same thing....

This is the first I heard of Kerry getting involved like this. I understand to an extent why this wasn't on the front page, but I hardly saw this covered anywhere.

Good for him!

[Why Syzygy]

98. But at least some babies will eat ..

I think Kerry was overseas when this hit. Not sure where I got that notion.

Behind the scenes is most honorable, I agree. But we need visability too.

edit: oops. Guess I read that on DU :D

[Southsideirish]

155. My feelings exactly! Way too calculated at this date. Once more he

played it safe and lost the opportunity. What did he wait and take a couple of polls first?

[blm]

187. Kerry's FIRST supply plane went out the day after Katrina hit.

Then he went to Iraq. Upon his return he submitted a legislative package to relieve those small businesses effected by Katrina.

Then he secured a congressional investigation into 9-11 funds targeted for small businesses that, instead, found their way to businesses owned by WH cronies.

Then he made speeches in NJ on Sat. and referred to Bush's response as "criminal negligence" while working to help Corzine for Gov.

Then he delivered his SECOND supply plane.

Sorry the facts seem so elusive for you, but they are there if you look a bit past what you see on the corporate networks.

[chavi]

192. Huh???

Why are you trying to belittle Kerry's contributions? Have YOU done better? Has Bush?

[Seabiscuit]

212. Yet another reason why Gore, not Kerry, is MY President.

[othermeans]

239. If your from New Orleans would you want Kerry's "stunt" or Bush's help?

[stellanoir]

7. Someone had called his office

a week and a half ago and his aide said that he was then in Iraq.

God only knows when he returned stateside.

[TayTay]

10. Well, God and his senate staff

He got back on 9/2. The Senate went back into session the following Tuesday (9/6). He organized the first planeload of supplies while he was actually overseas. This was not known until Trent Lott (R-MS) spoke about it on the floor of the Senate. Apparently, Kerry did it quietly but the effort was revealed by a Repub Senator who thought it was a good thing to do.

[SoCalDem]

75. He could have set people to work in his absence

I wish he had done it last week when people were sitting on overpasses without food or water.. The bulk of the evacuees have already been evac-ed now..

Of course it's a nice gesture, but he should have gotten "his" stuff in there before *² "visited" ..That would have been a real slap in the face..

[blm]

94. Actually Kerry's first supply trip was the day after the Hurricane. Then

he went to Iraq, then completed a legislative package for relief for thousands of small businesses hit by Katrina and snagged a congressional investigation for the 9-11 funds that were targeted for small businesses effected by that terror event that found their way, instead, into the businesses owned by friends of the WH. Now he's going back down with supplies collected from the businesses and people of Boston.

[txindy]

117. But, see, you're presenting facts.

Some people here don't care about those pesky things. They might, MIGHT, get between them and an opinion. :crazy:

I think Senator Kerry's doing a great job.

[Why Syzygy]

100. I read estimates

that thousands are refusing to evacuate. One woman cited a California Patorl Officer (wha?) telling her she could stay, but don't expect any food or water. Supplies are needed.

[karynnj]

247. He met with officials and business leaders

for additional input as he was the author of the legislation to help small businesses. HE WAS DOING HIS JOB! Also, he went to Baton Rouge - where many evacuee went bringing stuff Landrieau said they needed.

Last week he was working on the legislation - because he's a Senator.

[Stand and Fight]

12. True leadership...

I'm always proud of Senator Kerry, and this gives me yet another reason for such sentiments.

Now the assholes who normally show up will come in to bash him, though they themselves are doing absolutely nothing. Pathetic.

[lateo]

13. You mean he isn't just going to fly over the area staring out the window?

(snark)

Kerry is doing a great job with this.

[Redstone]

14. Well, Gore jumped in there right away, Kerry's doing the same, and

bushyboy is strutting and preening and probably hasn't so much as actually handed someone a bottle of water.

Hey, Republicans:

1) Out of those three guys, which acts the LEAST the way a president should?

2) Which one did you vote for?

3) Feel stupid right about now?

Redstone

[goforit]

16. Geee Kerry....A little late???...All Skull & Bone members are alike.

[KittyWampus]

18. so are all DU'ers who insist on posting nonsense like this:

All Skull & Bone members are alike

[TayTay]

20. No, one went to war, one didn't

one is an idiot and a fake, one isn't.

Gee, I wonder if you were in the Gulf and were affected by this and needed some of the stuff that is being supplied by companies in New England and delivered to the Gulf area, gee I wonder if you would be grateful or decide it was too late?

Must be nice to be so morally above the fray that you get to decide who is doing good work and who is faking it. I wish I had that godlike ability to see into people's hearts. Tell me, can you tell if anyone in the Gulfport area, maybe someone who needs baby formula or food or something will refuse these supplies?

[karynnj]

249. Not to mention, he said in his Senate speech

on the Small Business amendment he authored, that he met with business people and officials in Louisiana. Getting input before finalizing legislation sounds like a good idea - and it's likely given the circumstances, that he would get more information actually meeting with them in Baton Rouge - where he would not cause any problems. So another difference:
On Hurricane Katrina, Kerry was doing his job (Small Business Amendment) and going beyond it; while Bush was doing a very poor job.

[blm]

31. Kerry was in Iraq last week, crafted legislation for small businesses

hit by Katrina upon his return, and also got congressional hearings to investigate 9-11 funding for small businesses that went instead to Bush and Cheney cronies.

So....would you care to revisit your conclusions or are you intent on spreading misinformation?

[Why Syzygy]

103. Let's HOPE this pulls the Dems together to accomplish something ...

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=393165&category=AP%20IRAQ&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=9/9/2005
~snip~
The House Democratic leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., proposed an independent commission to watch for contractor scams in hurricane repairs.

"Already we have seen despicable stories of those trying to profit off desperate Gulf Coast residents," she said. Her plan would investigate waste and fraud as soon as contracts are awarded.

[Algorem]

19. now it'll be "the Democrat took 2 weeks".real good.It'll be a Leno joke

tonight.Rove'll catapult this to the fucking moon."Haw!Look at Herman Munster,he's so big and dumb and slow,haw haw!"

[karynnj]

21. Except for 3 things:

1) Kerry and his wife got supplies to Mississippi earlier - and they did this quietly - and it is known only because Lott thanked him.

2) Kerry doesn't head the executive branch :( and is not CIC - the legislative branch has no forces to send out. He also DID work as a legislator to put together a package.

3) Also, Gore was there earlier - Kerry is not the only Democrat and he had no official role in emergency management. Both Gore and Kerry are responding out of a desire to help and possibly an anger at the failure of the government. (In NJ, variants of the word "accountable" were spread through Kerry's talk.)

So the comparison is totally distasteful

[Algorem]

22. American people's reaction to those 3 points:"Uh,snoresville,let's make

make with the laughs!Big dumb slow Democrat Herman Munster,Haw Haw Haw!"

[TayTay]

24. Ahm, America did care about disaster relief

People have reacted and want some answers. The polls alone are showing that America is paying attention. The last national poll showed that 91% of Americans were paying attention to this disaster and what was going on in the relief effort.

You don't care about getting relief to the needy?

[Algorem]

26. I'll have to call the press like Kerry so they can get shots of me caring.

[karynnj]

30. Clever response

She's right. Kerry sent supplies to Mississippi and is now sending them to LA - should he stop. I bet that Kerry and Gore respect that the other acted appropriately and with good motives. You don't see Kerry supporters claiming that Gore's actions were wrong - claiming he could have just sent the planes.

[TayTay]

33. What shots?

Perhaps shots of trolls sell these days. Ah, what hath Lord of the Rings done to the media?

Some people genuinely care. The rest snark. Only one group gets help to those who need it. The rest armchair quarterback and get nothing done. Sigh!

[karynnj]

43. and precisely what are you doing to show you're caring

I doubt Senator Kerry called the press. What he's doing is note worthy

[bunny planet]

61. once and for all, Senator Kerry is not the enemy. We've got a heartless

dictator in the WH and the best you can do is hurl insults at someone who is doing his level best to help. Does anti-Kerry cynicism know no bounds.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[FlemingsGhost]

133. And we have enablers in the Democratic Party.

Apparently, denial knows no bounds, too.

[bunny planet]

144. Kerry's not one of them.

No denial here.

[Algorem]

245. Right on the money.

[Patchuli]

171. How much have YOU sent ,Algorem?

My husband and I have contributed everything we can afford to the Red Cross and a couple of other relief funds.

Let's skip the Kerry bashing for a moment and see what YOU have done to help?

[Algorem]

173. I'll let YOU pose for the holy pictures,Mother Theresa.

[Patchuli]

200. No need,

we can all see where you're coming from Algo... :sarcasm:

[karynnj]

28. So he shouldn't do it?

So Gore is sincere because he acts, but when Kerry acts in many different ways - he shouldn't do it because idiots will make fun of him?

and no I don't think that will be the reaction. Unlike Bush, Kerry DID NOT have the responsibility to directly act on this. He was in Iraq - as part of his job, when this hit.

[Algorem]

29. he fills me with inertia

I sure hope he stays away in '08

[karynnj]

44. self-delete

[TayTay]

47. Ahm, inertia?

You are filled with inertia?

Hmmm: Dictionary says: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=inertia

1 a : a property of matter by which it remains at rest or in uniform motion in the same straight line unless acted upon by some external force b : an analogous property of other physical quantities (as electricity)
2 : indisposition to motion, exertion, or change

So, you can't move because Kerry brought relief supplies to the Gulf. Might I suggest a visit to a competent physician might be in order. Being filled with inertia sounds rather painful. You might want to get that checked out.

[Patchuli]

205. He/she's

filled with something besides inertia.

Damn I am sick of Kerry bashers. Kerry's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with some of these people. I wish they'd keep their pissiness to themselves, at least in this case. It doesn't matter where help came from as long as it came. And it seemed to come from folks who didn't have a responsibility to bring it, rather than from those whose job it was to bring it.

[Algorem]

225. Naner naner.

Kerry,you're precious,beautiful loser.

[Patchuli]

229. What, are you like 13 or something?

I would prefer Gore for president actually, but Kerry's a hell of a good man who loves this country.

You're just a whiner. Have you made your contributions yet? :hide:

[Algorem]

230. Just trying to keep up with your magnificent Mensa-ness.

[Patchuli]

232. Why don't you just try to

grow a heart instead?

[Name removed]

233. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Patchuli]

235. And you have an anger management problem

I can't believe you actually had to try to keep this going and namecalling, too. No one gives a damn if you like Kerry or not.

:boring:

[Algorem]

246. I was against anger before I was for it and I manage to get angry only at

the right people.Good luck in '08.

[Patchuli]

255. You never answered my question

I was trying to ask you. Who do you wish to see run?

[blm]

42. I think Gore would be ashamed that you use his name to attack Kerry.

Kerry also sent supplies after Hurricane Hugo. It's what he's always done.

Kerry was in Iraq last week, then came home and crafted legislation to help small businesses hit by Katrina and set up congressional hearings on small business loans made after 9-11 that went, instead, to businesses friendly to Bush and Cheney.

I think your post against him without ANY working knowledge to back it up was classless.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadHound]

25. Geez, another corporate whore of a politician who is a day late,

And a dollar short. Waiting until the waters recede a bit to get his photo op in:eyes: Frankly I think that they should ban all politicians from NO until the place is cleaned up. Catering to these fools needs for photo ops, security, etc takes up too much valuable time, money and manpower that at this point could be better spent rescuing victims that are still left and recovering bodies.

The man should have just sent the damn supplies instead of accompanying it.

[blm]

34. Better read the whole thread and revisit your absurd assessment.

You don't want to be the source for incorrect information do you?

[MadHound]

49. What exactly is incorrect about my information?

Here he is, almost two weeks after the hurricane and is now just showing up, I would call that late, wouldn't you? Or is it the dollar short bit? Sorry, but from the article I don't see where he is putting any of his own cash on the line, but is instead he is shipping in items donated by Mass. business and a plane donated by UPS. So, how is my "dollar short" comment off base?

And what, you don't think that this is a photo op? I would be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that there is an AP or other wire photo of the man in the disaster area tommorrow. Besides, why does Kerry need to go if not for a photo op?

Or do you maintain that Kerry isn't a corporate whore?:eyes: Well, I think that if you look at his list of corporate donors, and then compare that with legislation he has supported, you will find that like most of our other so called reps, he caters to the people who put money in his coffers. Sounds like a corporate whore to me.

[blm]

52. Didn't read the whole thread, did you? Kerry was in Iraq last week to

get a clearer picture of the current lies that BushInc is spreading about the readiness there.

He then came home and crafted important and necessary package of legislation to help the thousands of small businesses effected by Katrina.

He also got a congressional investigation into the 9-11 funds targeted for small businesses effected by 9-11 that found their way, instead, to businesses friendly to the WH. Kerry said we need this investigation to assure that Katrina funds would not end up the same way as the 9-11 funds.

So, none of that is important to good governance in your assessment?

Kerry never accepted corporate pac money in any of his senate races. He crafted the Clean Elections bill with Paul Wellstone. And accepting money from artists and some execs at Time-Warner is not the same as Bush accepting money from Steve Case and his cronies.

Kerry helped craft the Kyoto Protocol for 10 years. Most corporations were against Kyoto. Corporate whores don't craft Kyoto or accrue the best environmental record in Congress.

[MadHound]

58. I'm don't care what he did in Iraq, nor what he did for 911funds

What we're talking about here is his going down to LA to have empty photo ops and meaningless gestures. Besides, I think he has done entirely too much vis-a-vis Iraq by voting for the IWR, continuing to support funding, and not advocating for an immediate withdraw from that country, but hey, that's another thread.

As far as corporate support, he certainly did accept it, both in his Senate and Presidential runs. And no, it wasn't money from artists or Time-Warner, it was money from insurance companies, among others.

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3847588&sourceCode=RSS>
<http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/002301.php>
<http://www.publicintegrity.org/bop2004/report.aspx?aid=189>
<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/02/04/politics1709EST0760.DTL&type=printable>

[blm]

62. Yet Kerry still votes against most procorporate legislation - Go figure.

Guess you also missed the GREATER POINT that the package he put together for Katrina victims who lost their small businesses was the effort of a WORKHORSE not a showhorse.

This trip is also his SECOND trip, as he sent supplies to Mississippi the day after the hurricane....no publicity at all. The reason this second trip got publicity is because they were gathering donated supplies in Boston from businesses and private citizens who wanted Kerry to take them down for them on his SECOND TRIP.

And the investigation into small business loans from 9-11 was to ASSURE that the funneling of those funds to Bush cronies is exposed so it CAN'T HAPPEN with the Katrina money targeted for small businesses.

For someone who claims to be against the way big business operates and claims to be for environment and the little guy, you sure do dump on the guy with the best congressional record in exposing govt. corruption, best record on environmental issues, and one of the best supporting small business concerns OVER the desires of big business.

[MadHound]

64. And you continue to praise you boy, ignoring all of his faults

Like voting for NAFTA, the Patriot Act, the IWR, etc. etc. Being the cleanest pig in the feed lot still means that you're a hog friend. Being the nicest corporate whore in our government still means that you're a corporate whore.

I'm sorry friend, but we need both real change and real leadership in our government, and Kerry, nor any other leader beholden to corporate America can provide it. If Kerry is willing to give up all of his corporate cash, then I will support him in his future endeavors, but until then he is simply another corporate whore dancing to the tune his corporate masters play.

[blm]

66. Your perception skills are in drastic need of a tuneup. Kyoto didn't come

from corporate whores. Kyoto came from the anti-whores.

BCCI wasn't closed by corporate whores. BCCI was closed by a lone Senator who opposed the institutional financiers who funneled dirty money into worldwide chaos and terror acts to benefit their defense industry cronies.

If you hate Kerry, who exposed more government and financial institution corruption than any lawmaker in modern history, then no Democrat must pass muster with you, and certainly you must loathe the entire Democratic party if Kerry has one of its best records against corruption.

[MadHound]

69. Why do you keep bringing up examples than I haven't mentioned?

Gore, Kyoto, BCCI

Stick to the topic OK, it really makes a discussion much more smooth if we aren't talking past each other.

And you are correct, very very few Democrats pass muster with me anymore. After spending over thirty years of blood, sweat, money, votes, and tears for the Dems, only to find myself and the rest of the leftist base alienated as the party moved ever rightwards, I've come to the decsion never ever to support another candidate that takes corporate cash. And that leaves Kucinich and a couple of others in the Democratic Party that I can support. That is why I'm going Green, for they have made it part of their party to never take corporate cash.

[brentspeak]

84. Question: Why are you still spending time here?

This is a website intended for supporters of Democrats, not for those opposed to Democrats. Wouldn't you be more happy posting to a dedicated Green Party board?

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Le Taz Hot]

161. Methinks someone needs to read

the "About us" section of DU. And I quote:

"While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole."

Point 1: The progressives didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left the progressives.

Point 2: Progressives are not demagogues.

Point 3: The "New Democrat" model no longer works (if it ever did). It's time to go back to being Democrats. WE'RE the ones who are supposed to stand up for those with little or no voice. WE'RE the ones who are supposed to be standing up for American Labor (remember unions?). That model worked for 40 nearly consecutive years. You think history might have something to teach us?

[brentspeak]

219. I'm familiar with them

Especially the sentence that precedes the one you quoted. It reads as follows: "Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office."

[karynnj]

251. Maybe she brings up examples you didn't mention

for the reason you don't mention them - they support her arguments and counter yours.

My guess is if you look as closely at Kuchinich as you do at Kerry, ignoring all good and taking every thing bad at face value, accepting no explanations - you would reject him too.

[Patchuli]

222. I didn't realize we were talking about Kerry for Pres '08

I thought it was just being stated that he sent and brought supplies down. Why are you faulting that? I don't recall seeing any photo ops of Kerry in the Gulf States. Got some?

[fedupinBushcountry]

82. Now lets see why they gave

hmmmmmm from your first link:

Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry has succeeded in winning more support from corporate executives than Bill Clinton did in his 1992 White House run. Kerry's corporate supporters typically cite his plans to reform health care, cut the federal budget deficit and revamp foreign policy. Hear NPR's Scott Horsley.

Reform healthcare-I guess you don't like that idea
Cut the federal budget-guess you don't agree with that either
Revamp foreign policy- so I guess you agree with Schub's policy

Second link:

Sums up why they supported Kerry.

Mr. Bonderman's reasons for supporting Mr. Kerry are much the same as those cited by others on the list today. They include opposition to Mr. Bush's fiscal policies; to his international policies that have, they argue, tarnished America's reputation in the world and, perhaps, its market share; and to environmental and social policies they call too conservative and divisive.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Third link:
Bush lobbyist
Of these, the Center found, 52 lobbyists—who have together raised more than $6 million for Bush's reelection—represent more than 800 organizations and companies. Since Bush's election as president, their firms have reported billing these clients $146 million for lobbying.

Kerry lobbyist:
A study of these documents by the Center found that 27 of those whom the Senator met with made donations totaling more than a $100,000 to Kerry's campaigns over the years. The campaign lists four of them as major fundraisers.

Lets see now $6 million compared to 100,000. You do the math. I think I know who the corporate whore is.

Fourth link:

I do not know much about this since it has to do with Massachusetts. But I did notice these 2 items from the article:

Kerry wasn't the only committee member to get AIG donations. In 1999 and early 2000 as the Big Dig issue was pending, McCain received several thousand dollars in donations from executives of the insurer, the records show.

The Massachusetts Democrat actually was critical of the loophole but didn't want money stripped from the project because it would hurt his constituents who needed the Boston project finished, Cutter said.

He was working for the people of Massachusetts, as was Kennedy.May I add just like many other Congressman and Senators do for their states. I'm sure many others here from Mass. know what went down, I like to see all the facts in front of me, before I weigh my opinion.

[confludemocrat]

83. Pretty mediocre arguments for Kerry: he's not worse. Whatever. (n/t)

[fedupinBushcountry]

88. Yeah, whatever

Like you really give a hoot. The bashing is easier.

[confludemocrat]

90. Of course I give a hoot. We are doing ourselves no favors if pro-Kerry

and the more suspicion we have about him and the more disquiet we express, with much reason, we get the questioning of our motivations. Or dismissal based on some supposed desire to bash. You seem to want to trivialize what anguish there is in disappointment and betrayal, I guess.

[redqueen]

178. In a system that's rigged for two parties, that means everything.

[Why Syzygy]

108. Maybe we NEED a photo op!

Maybe we NEED to make our presence known on the planet?

There are people refusing to leave. Gore and Kerry bring food and supplies.

Bush sent in mercenary TROOPS. See the difference?

[karynnj]

250. He went to LA and talked to officials and business people

He was writing legislation - that easily passed the Senate yesterday, to help small businesses. He did not go to NO, but to Baton Rouge. He and Teresa did make significant contributions earlier. Could you post a link to the disaster area photo - the Kerry group hasn't found one. All I saw was a Boston area clip where he mdae a few forward looking proposals.

Correlation does not prove casuality. Kerry, unlike a large number of his peers was never accused of quid por quo. An alternative reasonable hypothesis is that businesses that are most versed on his work would support him as legislator making informed knowlegable decisions.

Kerry has not accepted PAC donations in any of his Senate campaigns.

[TankLV]

184. Boy - some people can't read, obviously.

Thank god for people like Kerry and Gore.

If a tree falls in the woods...

Oh, look - a tree just fell! Damn publicity seeking tree!

[karynnj]

35. Maybe you should wait to see if Kerry's trip

causes manpower to be diverted. There was no obvious security in NJ. There was an EMS vehicle, but that's standard for any large crowd. Was it a problem when Gore went? Why criticize Kerry when you wouldn't criticize another Democrat. (In Bush's case this will happen, but his appearing here is something he should do - you would have cheered Clinton doing it. )

[MadHound]

50. Sorry, I didn't criticize Gore because this article was about Kerry

And if you would go back and review my posts you will find that I'm pretty even handed when it comes to criticizing corporate whores, no matter who they are and what their stripe is.

And quite frankly, with a raging crisis going on, with people being rescued, even having one delay due to a political visit is simply too damn much. Bush is causing massive problems whenever he or Cheney visits, Kerry, Gore and anybody else doesn't need to add to it just in order to get a disaster photo op. Send the damn supplies and let it be.

[blm]

55. Gore doesn't deserve criticism, either...and if you knew anything about

kerry you would already know that he did the same during Hurricane Hugo...but, you are always to assume the worst first instead of assessing fairly and based on past actions and efforts.

[MadHound]

60. As I stated earlier, I'm not saying a thing about Gore,

That is for another thread altogether, OK. As far as visting during Hugo, well if a person keeps repeating a wrong, that doesn't make it right. Why couldn't Kerry have just sent the supplies and be done with it? Why does he feel the need to go down there, tie up logistics, get his face on TV? Why can't he do good in relative anonimity like the rest of us, and leave the resources and logistics open for more important work, like rescuing victims and cleaning up the area?

Oh, and I am basing my opinions on Kerry's past actions, you know, voting for the IWR, his special ties to the insurance industry and MBNA, his vote for the Patriot Act, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

[blm]

63. HAHA...that's why Kerry railed against the bankruptcy bill MBNA wanted?

That's why corporations HATED the Kyoto Protocol Kerry worked on for 10 years with other world leaders?

Your conclusions are based on false peceptions and have no basis in reality or historic fact.

[MadHound]

65. Whatever friend, I have presented some fine evidence

Yet you still continue to keep your head buried in the sand. If you wish to continue to do so, that is fine, but for myself, I prefer to have my eyes wide open, and call BS when I see it. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one and go on.

[blm]

67. Perception tuneups.... on sale this week at a history book near you.

.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

76. You don't know what's going on....Kerry is still in 3 court cases in Ohio

and is apparently working with Dean to push smart, savvy candidates for Sec of State races all over the country. Cam Kerry being one of them in Mass.

I believe their intent is to get complete access to the machines themselves and those who control and operate them so that their inner vulnerabilities to illicit rigging can be exposed.

I also think that you don't have any notion what makes Kerry tick and what motivates him. If he was all about publicity, then why did he not seek it on his first trip with supplies 2 weeks ago? The only reason THIS trip rec'd publicity is because many other people and businesses were also sending supplies and they were being PUBLICLY COLLECTED in Boston.

Kerry did not gain any positive publicity or gain politically when he uncovered IranContra and BCCI. He only gained targets on his back and the backs of his family. Most of DC ostracized him for exposing the corruption.

I think you know very little about the real efforts of John Kerry. Obviously if he had a lot of publicity about his relief efforts in the past, like with Hurricane Hugo, then more people would accept his latest effort as part of who he is. But, he didn't get publicity, and operated mostly under the radar in private ways.

And I am so sorry that you have no appreciation for the work that goes into crafting a complete package of legislation to relieve the thousands of small business owners effected by Katrina. It's called GOOD GOVERNANCE and it is something that a WORKHORSE in the Senate initiates, not a showhorse.

And his accompanying investigation into the small business funds targeted for the 9-11 victims that were instead diverted to friends of the WH is more important than you give credit, as Kerry's goal is to expose the practice by BushInc sp it can't happen to the Katrina funds.

Good governance above all else.

[Why Syzygy]

110. Bush and his ilk

should certainly stay out of it! DUH!

If the Dems can get some PR for the plight that Bush so neglected, I say go for it.

[stepnw1f]

209. Guhuuu... Guhuuuu... Guhuuuu

plop plop.

[karynnj]

252. Kerry didn't - in MS he asked Lott where they could send stuff

and did. In LA, he went to Baton Rouge - and met with business leaders and officials. As he was writing the small business legislation this makes sense. I didn't see the PR part here

[Bridget Burke]

39. Some Democrats are being criticized for staying silent.

And others get into trouble for not remaining anonymous.

Yes, they're all corporate whores. There's no difference between Democrats & Republicans. (Where have I heard that before?)

[MadHound]

51. I don't know, perhaps you've heard people shouting it from the rooftops

I know I have been, and if the past five years haven't convinced you that we're living under the two party/same corporate master system of government, well then I think that your head is terminally planted in the sand. I mean really now, the IWR, prescription drugs, the Patriot Act, the bankruptcy bill, the list goes on forever, yet you still insist that even though they vote for their corporate supporters, and ignore the working man, that the Dems are still somehow not part of the problem? Wake up and smell the corruption. The only purpose the two party system serves now is to play an elaborate game of good cop/bad cop, a game where everybody except the power elite lose.

[LeahD]

48. If you read the article, it states the supplies aren't going to NO.

They're going to Batan Rouge and Lafayette. Supplies are needed wherever there are evacuees, and both cities have seen a huge influx of people. Relief efforts expand beyond New Orleans, Gulfport, etc.

[MadHound]

54. It is still in a disaster area

And with people still being rescued and vital work still needing to be done, now is not the time to be going down for a damn photo op. Send the supplies, send condolences, work like hell to help the people, but don't go down to a disaster area in order to posteur for the cameras. The election is over with and real work needs to be done.

[LeahD]

73. Don't think the "rescue effort" is taking place in B. Rouge or Lafayette.

[karynnj]

253. I want to see the photo op!

He wrote the legislation for the Small Business committee. That's real work! He also did some real work as a Democrat - by having 5 events in NJ to get volunteers for the 2005 election. (Governor and state offices)

[kostya]

70. WTF?

"The man should have just sent the damn supplies instead of accompanying it."

Or do you mean like Bushie, who has flown down there three times and not brought along a single bottle of water to share? Guess any supplies, for say, diabetics who've been without insulin, needles, test kits, etc. would've take room up on AF1 used for Lobster Thermador and such. Ya think? -K

[QC]

112. So what have you done to help?

Sitting in the comfort of your home posting anonymous flamebait on message boards doesn't count, by the way.

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

139. You're beautiful!!!!!!!!!!

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Personally, I have donated money to help the many evacuees who are settling in my town, have been collecting clothing and supplies for them, and have volunteered to drive supplies to Biloxi this weekend--still waiting to hear if they need me this time. Will also be cooking for a local church retreat that is putting people up free of charge. And I am taking visiting Mississippi students into my already full classes.

Does this satisfy your curiosity?

[redqueen]

180. Do you have no hope we can change it?

I still have hope we can vote real progressives into the party...

[MadHound]

196. No hope what so ever RQ,

Too much water under the bridge, too much corporate lucre flowing into the pockets of the Dems. In many ways, I think that the leftist based, New Deal minded, traditional Democratic party died with RFK, it has just been propped up and kept on life support ever since. Look what happened to McGovern, a traditional liberal populist if there ever was one. He was demonized and hung out to dry by his own party. Carter, as much as I admire the man now, was really in many ways the prototype New Dem when he was in office. And Clinton was just the last nail in the coffin, he sealed the deal and made it official, two parties/same corporate master.

I doubt that any of the remaining leftists in the party will get much of anywhere. Look what happened to Dean, who is far from being a leftist. He was smeared, jeered and abandoned by his own party, for what. Daring to think that he didn't have to be beholden to the party, that he could raise funds on his own, and thus not have the threat of the purse hanging above his head. And for this, the party betrayed him and his race. Kucinich, the only Dem who didn't take corporate money was simply marginalized and reviled as an oddity.

Stick a fork in it, the Democratic party as we knew and loved it is long gone. No efforts at "reforming from within" or other such measures will ever bring it back to life. Time to abandon it to its fate, the dustbin of history, and support a liberal party that truly answers to the people.

[redqueen]

197. Until our election laws are changed, I can't...

Well... I say that now. We'll see who our candidates are. Our last candidate for Gov in TX was horrid.

[MadHound]

198. Oh, hey, I understand that

I've been trying to be optimistic and hope for better from the party for the past quarter century. But Clinton really brought me down hard, and the performance of our so called Democratic leaders since Bushco took office pretty much sealed the deal for me. But hey, we all have to approach these things in our own way, at our own pace.

[redqueen]

199. Yeah, they've been weaker than weak for the most part.

It gets old hearing that it wouldn't matter since the GOP controls blah blah blah... I understand your viewpoint. And I completely frickin agree about Clinton. I nearly went Green due to him.

Peace

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

27. Kerry response VS. Gore response = political opportunism VS. real concern

I'd like to point out that Kerry's TWO WEEK DELAYED response is massively counterpointed by Gore's 4-5 day after response not only in the timing but also in the presence vs. absence of advance press.

Kerry's trip --- snore.

Gore's trip --- welling up with pride to be a fellow Democrat.

Now, let's see how long it takes for the lockstep Kerry supporters to lock or delete my response in conflict with the general principles of free speech and the democratic free-flow of ideas...

JB

[blm]

36. Better read the whole thread before you spread disinformation via your

INCORRECT assessment.

You never bothered to look into what Kerry has been doing the last two weeks before you chose to attack him, did you?

[karynnj]

38. Or maybe just leaving your nasty comment up

to show precisely where you come from is better. There has been penty written to show that this is not his first response - and his first response (to send stuff to MS) was at the same time as Gore's action. This is not a contest between Gore and Kerry - they both deserve praise. They are both acting in their role of concerned citizen.

[emulatorloo]

80. kerry was in Iraq w Katrina hit

you are ill-informed

[TheDonkey]

203. Actually it could be seen as the opposite

Kerry's trip isn't going to be covered by the media as much now they have gone onto other celebrity scandals. Kerry was busy in Iraq and in the Senate working and now is using some free time to continue the effort.

Good for both of them.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

32. It's really very simple:

He should have been there first, but he was in Iraq, where he should have been, so he should have said something, which he did, but of course it wasn't strong enough, except that it was too political, and if he arrives yesterday, then too bad it wasn't the day before, with a plane load of supplies that will greatly be appreciated except by those who don't need any of those things and then he should have brought something else instead.

See? That was easy. You'd think he could get it right by now!

[karynnj]

40. Love it!

[lavendermist]

46. Thank you so much!

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.:crazy:

[Shakespeare]

68. Best. Kerry. Post. EVER. Thanks. n/t

[kostya]

71. kick

[blm]

77. Heheh...you said it!

Except, even when he was there first, he didn't get the publicity for it and that's all that matters to a publicity hound who should have made sure he got the publicity credit for it so his next trip wouldn't look like a publicity stunt.

[confludemocrat]

78. Neither he nor we should have been in Iraq and hes culpable in supporting

the sending of even more national guard troops to Iraq. So in good time he will have to answer for his actions too.

[redqueen]

181. BRILLIANT!

I wish I could nominate posts. :)

[tinfoilinfor2005]

182. Such praise, and from a Queen!

I'm blushing...:)

[TankLV]

185. Ha ha - that made me smile. It was spot-on.

[marshall]

37. What about Roberts?

Don't the hearings start today? Shouldn't Kerry be there to block the nomination???

[karynnj]

41. Kerry is not on the judiciary committee - should he just crash it!

[marshall]

53. Can he do that?

[karynnj]

148. No!

[confludemocrat]

85. He voted for Scalia and if we weren't watching, he'd prob vote for Roberts

[karynnj]

149. So did Kennedy

[politicasista]

45. Another positive Kerry thread turning into a flamewar

Go figure. :(

[confludemocrat]

81. and it goes like this people don't trust his actions or words say so and

then are compared to freepers or called childish or syncophants by the Kerry syncophants or some other derogation and depending on the mods, stuff highly critical is deleted or the thread closed.

[DURHAM D]

56. This thread proves what I have often thought.

People with a selfish agenda just get on here and start throwing shit without reading the posts and thus gaining info and facts. I used to wonder why Repugs are so angry - now I have to ask why so many angry people are showing up on DU.

Frankly, I am here to learn - not watch 3 year olds do anything they can to get attention. I am sorry you didn't get enough love as a child but it is not my fault.

[TankLV]

186. Reminds me of the Monty Python skit.

This is Argument? I wanted disagreement. That's 2 doors down. Thank you. (or however it went).

Some people just want to disagree to just disaqree because they're "right" and godknows they can never be "wrong" which would still make them "right" in the first place!

[topsfieldgal]

74. Kerry

Only thing it shows is that summer has ended in Massachusetts and everyone gone back to work.

[blm]

79. You might be interested in reading the whole thread first and reassess.

.

[sabra]

87. wrong!

welcome to DU!

[FlemingsGhost]

86. That makes up for the planeloads of bombs he helped to deliver

to Iraq.

Good for you Sen. Kerry!

[Der Blaue Engel]

89. Every time Kerry does something good

Hoardes of angry posters arrive to tear it down. I'm not going suggest there is any agenda or coordination to this, but does it disturb anyone else that Kerry draws such vitriol on DU while Bush is destroying our country?

Sometimes this place deeply saddens me.

Note: I will not respond to your flames, because it's pointless, so save your breath.

[confludemocrat]

91. Look at the post above yours and answer that statement, rather than the

generalized dismissal of Kerry nonbelievers.

[Der Blaue Engel]

93. I read the whole thread

Thank you for the suggestion, though.

[confludemocrat]

109. And decided to skip any response to it as have all the other Kerryites

[karynnj]

150. Maybe because it's been answered a trillion times

Kerry voted to get the inspectors in. Bush fixed the intelligence and then did not do what he said he would do. It is not last resort to attack when there are ongoing invasive inspections ok'd by Saddam.

If Clark had to vote with only yes no options, he said he would likely have done the same thing. Dean was more agressive not less at the time of the vote. They get passes because they didn't have to vote. Kerry's floor speeches and op-eds are in the public record - he was not pro-war.

[earth mom]

92. Kerry ain't no angel.

Once upon a time, I thought he was and would save the day....

But time to open your eyes folks. I have. What has Kerry done since the election was stolen from him? Is he trying to prove how, when where and why it was stolen? HELL NO! Oh sure, he's involved in lawsuits...lawsuits that will never give him back HIS presidency! Why in the hell is that?! Who doesn't fight for something that is rightfully theirs?! Face it everyone-Kerry's actions are bizarre!

Before I get flamed...note that I supported him-for months and months after the stolen election. But c'mon now. Enough is enough. The writing is on the wall. Kerry is a politician. And politicians are just that POLITICIANS. Most of them lie their asses off to the public to get their votes and later do DIDLY SQUAT for the people they are elected to serve. What they really do is to sell their souls for cash from corporations to pay for their election in order to reap all the perks and power that goes with holding office. Once they're in office they give the finger to the public and set about trading their votes with other politicians so they can get some piece of legislation they want passed which benefits their corporate masters. And on and on it goes.

It's all a pile of crap that they think we are all too dumb to notice. HELLO! It all smells to high heaven and some of us have noticed the smell and are puking our guts out! :grr:

[blm]

96. And some of us are unaware that Kerry and Dean are involved in another

action to get at the voting machines. They are working to get smart, savvy candidates to run for the Sec of State positions all over the country, including Cam Kerry in Mass. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they intend to get full legal access to the voting machines and the companies and operators who control their input and output.

I believe they will succeed in exposing the machines once they get that access. They will PROVE PUBLICLY that the machines are easily rigged and controlled by GOP operatives.

[FlemingsGhost]

101. You put a lot of trust in politicians. Big mistake.

I'm reminded of a quote from P.T. Barnum ...

[blm]

111. Au contraire...I only trust those politicians who expose govt. corruption.

And there isn't a lawmaker alive who has exposed more government corruption than Kerry has and who has effected this nation's history more positively over the last 35 years.

[earth mom]

167. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong about Kerry...

and if he comes through and nails the BFEE, I'll be the first to apologize, but in the meantime I'm not holding my breath. :shrug:

[blm]

188. Then read this and learn a bit about what really goes on in DC

and how misperceptions have been planted intentionally for YEARS.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/102604B.shtml

[earth mom]

231. I've already read that. That's one reason I USED to support Kerry.

I don't need anyone telling me what to believe or think. The conclusions I've come to in the past few months about Kerry have nothing to do with anyone elses' opinion or anything I've read pro or con about him. But rather it's based on what he has NOT done.

[karynnj]

151. How precisely would you recommend he fight it

Do you have genuine proof that can be used in a court of law? Neither Kerry or his brother (both excellent lawyers) didn't think so. I doubt any politician is an angel.

Look at Kerry's actions - you might see someone trying to help.

[Dr Fate]

164. Well, he did the right thing. n/t

n/t

[wisteria]

220. Personal observation and suggestion- get over the election and

open your eyes. Kerry is much more than just a politician. He actually does care. If you are going to puke- hurl it towards Bush.

[emulatorloo]

97. CAN THE DU ADMINS PLEASE REFRESH THE "IHATEKERRY" AUTORESPONSE SCRIPT?

it is getting tired and out of date. Surely one of the programmers can update it so it is fresher.

[FlemingsGhost]

99. Sorry, but I have no plans to cease reminding folks of Kerry's ...

complicity in allowing an illegal invasion.

Me ... I'm still wondering how Sen. Kerry is going to ask the "last man to die for a mistake." LOL ... "Tired and out-of-date" aptly describes our elected, corporate-owned "leadership." That includes Sen. Kerry, my friend.

[emulatorloo]

102. Sorry Bush invaded Iraq, Bush Screwed Up Katrina Response, et cetera

But if you like blaming Dems knock yourself out

[FlemingsGhost]

105. Ahhhhhh ... I see you've written your own "autoresponse script."

Better run a program diagnostic. It's full of bugs.

[emulatorloo]

119. If Bush invades Iraq, then blame Kerry.

Ok i'll enter that code and see what the debugger says.

[FlemingsGhost]

124. "Garbage in, garbage out."

Who gave Bush the authority to use military force?

How is it that hosts of DUers knew that Bush was intent on invading, but a 30 year veteran of the Beltway couldn't put two and two together? Who trusts what Bush has to say ... his record, up until that point, should have spelled it out clearly. So, Sen. Kerry was either naive, or playing political games with the lives of hundreds of thousands.

Which do you think it was?

[emulatorloo]

132. Ok, here you go

I know Kerry has long argued for non-proliferation of WMDs.

I know there were top secret briefings (which Du'ers were not invited to) where Rummy etc showed exactly where the WMDs were located (I know this because Wes Clark on MTP referred to similar briefing of ex-generals, which he said was very convincing)

I am 99.99999% sure that Sec of State Colin Powell promised that all diplomatic avenues would be pursued, that they needed this to put diplomatic pressure on Iraq and that war would be a last resort. And Powell had credibility. Sadly Powell was out of the loop and his promises were worth nothing.

[FlemingsGhost]

134. So naive, it is ...

And I'm not just talking about John Kerry.

[emulatorloo]

136. at least I understand that this is Bush's War

I know I know, those damn democrats they FORCED george bush to unilaterly invade.

[fedupinBushcountry]

145. You know

no matter what Dem voted for the RESOLUTION not WAR, damn if none of them voted for it we would still be there, because this is a Republican run government. Geez, BUSH and his oil cronies started this god damn war no one else, when are you going to start blaming him ?

[MasonJar]

104. If you read the article you would shout hurrah for Kerry. He is

gathering these supplies at the behest of Senator Landrieux so he is obviously providing much needed goods. Citizens have to keep helping.

[sabra]

113. thank you for your post n/t

[progressivebydesign]

106. I applaud Kerry for the help. This is not the time for politics. n/t

[sabra]

114. thank you for your post n/t

[Goldeneye]

107. I get so disappointed here sometimes.

I don't know why I even bother. How can anyone complain about him getting babies food? About him getting shoes for people without any? I will never use ignore, but some of these posts are absurd. Do you guys even think before you post shit like this? I mean even if he was doing it for publicity, he's still doing it, which is more than any of us can say. None of us has the ability to get this kind of thing done. Not a single one of us. I don't know if all of us together could get even half of this done.

You don't have to assume Kerry's doing it for the right reasons. I know a lot of people want to believe the worst of him, and of course that is you're right, but can people please try and see that this is more important that an image or a photo-op or a chance to slam bush or kerry trying to prove something? It just doesn't matter why he's doing it. It really doesn't. There are people without food. There are people without homes. There are people without clothes and their photo albums are long gone and there are people who don't know where there families are. Do you guys get that?

[sabra]

115. thank you for your post n/t

[Why Syzygy]

116. Exactly . nt

[Nightwing]

126. Let's put the shoe on the other foot

Say it was Hillary doing this, how would you view it?? I see way too many posts here at DU slamming her all the time for anything. I've seen way too many fellow Dems make comments that they will not vote for her ever no matter what election she runs in.

Bottom line for me is I will work my ass off to get ANY Dem candidate elected to the White House regardless of my personal preference. This nation cannot afford the next three years of the present administration let alone another four on top of it should the Repukes take the Presidential election in '08.

I may not be perfect but I will support ANY Dem candidate for national, state or local office.

[FlemingsGhost]

129. Lieberman/Miller in '08

Rally 'round that DLC flag.

[Nightwing]

131. If that's the ticket, I'll work my ass off

Like I said, it's about WINNING.

[Goldeneye]

138. Yeah, that's gonna happen.

:eyes: But if it did, you know what I'd do? I'd look at how the green party was polling and if they didn't stand a chance, I'd vote for Lieberman/Miller. At least lieberman wouldn't be destroying our environment or starting wars over oil.

[Goldeneye]

137. I'd support any dem

from Kerry to Clinton from Clark to Biden from Kucinich to Conyers from Feingold to Howard Dean from Barbara Boxer to Cynthia McKinney. If you're a democrat running against a republican you have my vote unless you start acting like a clinicly insane ass clown who challenges reporters to Duals. That's right I would vote for Lieberman. I'd vote for Al Gore. I'd vote for Warner. I'd vote for Vilsack. I'd vote for Bayh. I don't really understand what that's got to do with my original post, but there you have it.

[Nightwing]

141. Amen Goldeneye!!

I'm with you!!
:headbang:

[emulatorloo]

120. No Good Deed Goes Unpunished, especially on DU

thanks for posting this, sabra

[Nightwing]

121. Too little too late

The timing would have been much much better had he done this while * was sitting on his ass, eating cake or getting a guitar. I like Kerry and applaud his efforts, just don't see how this will be viewed as anything other than a much too late political publicity stunt.

[emulatorloo]

122. Kerry was in Iraq when Katrina hit

EOM

[New Earth]

125. Kerry could have been in the hospital

on his death bed and people would still say this kind of crap.

[Nightwing]

127. What if it was Hillary doing this??

Just asked in a previous post and asking again. I see many fellow DU'ers slamming her for anything and everything.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I will work my ass of to get ANY Dem candidate into the White House regardless of my personal preference. It would be refreshing to hear the same from my fellow Dems.

I worked hard for Kerry in '04 and will do the same for whomever in '08. It's about WINNING, people.

[blm]

128. Because you don't know this is his SECOND trip. The 1st was the day after

the hurricane hit. Then he went to Iraq and upon his return had a package of legislation crafted to assist small businesses hit by the hurricane and also secured a congressional investigation to expose the small business funds that were targeted for 9-11 victims that ended up in the businesses of Bush cronies instead.

Then he blasted Bush's actions as bordering on "criminal negligence" in a speech and now is on his second supply mission to the effected areas.

I believe he has many more visits ahead of him as more needs to be filled will become apparent over the next few weeks.

[QC]

140. Why must you drag mere facts into a perfectly good hatefest?

Spoilsport!

[FlemingsGhost]

143. Yes ... criticism is now considered "hatred," in these parts.

"drag" it somewhere else, QC.

:eyes:

[QC]

147. Nice straw man you got there!

You'll be all set when the Halloween barn dance rolls around.

[New Earth]

123. good for him

and shame on all the 'lost puppies' around here who can't appreciate a damn thing the man does. it's a time of need for others, not a time to put down someone trying to help. i'm sure he's sorry his schedule didn't meet your demands.

[Tight_rope]

130. Now that's leadership....Bush needs to take note...n/t

[susanna]

152. Good for Kerry.

on edit, self-delete of the remainder.

[WildEyedLiberal]

154. This site has become a left wing FR

I'm glad Kerry pays no heed to the mewling, selfish, needy babies here on DU in need of a daddy figure. He goes out and gets real shit done, and it just pisses off the Progressive Keyboard Brigade to no end that he doesn't go away. Idiots who have no agenda but to bash Kerry do not belong on DU. I'm sorry. There is NOTHING to criticize in flying supplies to a disaster area, so don't play that bullshit "OMG you're stifling my freedom to criticize boo-hoo I'm such a spoiled whiny toddler" card. If Democrat-hating assholes were "persecuted" on DU, threads like this wouldn't devolve into flamewars because the fuckers responsible for the trolling would be deleted and banned. Pity, actually.

[slackmaster]

156. What took him so long?

:shrug:

[WildEyedLiberal]

158. Read the whole thread, unless you have an agenda

For Christ's sake. Unless you flew your plane of supplies in last week?

[slackmaster]

172. I've read it, and I know a political stunt when I see one

But you are free to keep drinking Senator Kerry's Kool-Aid.

For Christ's sake. Unless you flew your plane of supplies in last week?

I sent $500 to the Red Cross last week. How about you?

[WildEyedLiberal]

207. Kool aid is for people who would criticize a good deed

Because they have a problem with the person doing it.

Asshole.

[slackmaster]

227. I do have a problem with Senator Kerry

He blew our best chance to get rid of George W. Bush.

Normal rich people quietly donate cash and services to worthy causes and take their tax deductions to avoid the Alternative Minimum Tax and estate tax. Rich politicians make a spectacle of it.

Asshole.

Argumentum ad hominem. You lose.

[WildEyedLiberal]

234. Your argument is so ridiculous

"Normally rich people quietly donate cash..."

Generally, high-profile people make the news. Maybe no one should have reported any of the good deeds anyone has done for hurricane victims, since in your little mind reporting it obviously diminishes the goodness of it. And somehow, I have a feeling that if this was any other Dem, you'd be cheering "good for them." But because Kerry didn't fulfill your need for a daddy figure, you hate everything he does. How utterly pathetic.

I'll reiterate what another poster said elsewhere in the thread: "Have you no compassion or decency?" Evidently not. Now you're on ignore, because I'm done wasting my time with petty, insignificant peope who have the gall to piss on the good deeds of others.

[slackmaster]

238. I don't need a daddy figure, WE need a leader that people will vote for

But because Kerry didn't fulfill your need for a daddy figure, you hate everything he does.

What a bozoesque comment, and a Straw Man.

Now you're on ignore

Oh goody! You've joined an exclusive club formerly consisting of just one clown that I know of. Now I can reply to all of your posts with silly smilies.

:spank: :beer: :nuke: :party: :toast: :rant: :popcorn: :rofl:

[karynnj]

254. Actually increasing your charitable contributions

will make you obligated to PAY the Alternative Minimum Tax, not to avoid it. Look up the circumstances that make people pay the ATM

Kerry did everything he humanly could to win - he and his entire family were out there fighting to win. If the media would have given him any breaks or even allowed people to see him, it would have been a landslide.

[blm]

191. It was his SECOND trip. The first was day after it hit.

Then he went to Iraq.

Upon returning he submitted a legislative package to relieve small businesses effected by Katrina.

Then he secured a congressional investigation into 9-11 funds targeted for small businesses that found their way into the businesses of WH friends, instead.

Then he made speeches all over NJ on Saturday and referred to Bush's response as "criminal negligence" while working to elect Corzine as Gov.

Then he made his SECOND supply trip for the people of Boston who publicly collected their donations. THAT is why you heard about the second trip and not the first.

[slackmaster]

195. Ah, good information here

Thanks very much!

[GRLMGC]

157. It takes a special kind of asshole

to turn something positive into an attack

[WildEyedLiberal]

159. A "special" kind indeed. nt

[Firespirit]

160. OK PEOPLE....

Are any of the people who have a problem with what Kerry's doing actually FROM the affected area, displaced, and logging on from a place that still has electricity, phone, and cable service? Are they personally facing the loss of a home or other property? I think I know the answer already, because if that were so, they most likely wouldn't be slamming a person who is providing aid to them.... :nuke:

The thing is, I *AM* about three hours from the Gulf Coast. I experienced hurricane force winds that caused damage all over my town (three hours inland, again) and just a couple of days ago had my phone line restored so I could log on and see the sort of rancid, putrid, ill-natured crap that springs up on this website whenever Kerry is mentioned in any context at all.

What the HELL? Seriously? The true victims -- and I don't even count myself as one -- do not give a damn who is supplying their needs as long as they get what they need! If you truly think it's a political stunt, then it just says something about the state of YOUR mind that you would immediately draw that conclusion. Even if it WERE purely for a political photo-op (which it's not), what the hell difference does it make if it helps people? It's not "too late" at all; there is still plenty of suffering south of where I am and people who have extremely limited supplies because they were used up or spoiled from lack of electricity, and the stores are out of stock. I know this -- I have spoken with people who have seen it with their own eyes.

There are more important things right now than worrying about whether a presumed "photo-op" (a false presumption) will work against someone's political agenda.

[orleans]

162. was he turned back by fema???

with the same line of bullshit they were giving everyone else?
"i'm sorry but you're going to have to go to the next state over and register every bottle of formula and drop of water with the red cross and then return back to mass. and we will call you as soon as we figure out where the best location is for you to deliver these much needed supplies. and by the way...don't call us."

[Dr Fate]

163. Hell yeah- good going for Kerry!

!!!

[Carolab]

165. Sneakers and cleaning supplies?

Please.

[WildEyedLiberal]

168. STFU already!

What did YOU ship into the devastated Gulf region?

Maybe YOU should walk barefoot after all your possessions have been destroyed.

Your heartless disregard of compassion because it does not suit your political agenda is distressingly Republican in nature.

[Firespirit]

170. Are you in the affected area?

If you are typing from the flooded wreckage of what was your house, or within a shelter with thousands of other people, or from a place you evacuated to, then yeah I guess it's your prerogative to bitch about the products you're receiving as aid. Somehow I kinda doubt that, though. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If the victims have a problem with what he sent, let THEM complain about it. Of course if I had to deal with a toxic stew of pathogenic bacteria, mold, and corrosive chemicals, I wouldn't have too much to say about what he sent, but that's just me. :eyes:

[chavi]

177. On CNN, they interviewed a man that was wearing...

two different shoes They didn't fit and they were both for the left foot!

Things are pretty bad there! They need EVERYTHING! Why someone would knock another person's contributions is beyond my understanding!

[blm]

190. Tell that to the people whose only shoes are covered in mold spores from

the infected waters they trudged through.

Ever even try to walk a mile in wet shoes? How about if they were your ONLY shoes now, and they are not only wet but covered in filth and mold spores growing from the feces soaked waters?

[Carolab]

204. Okay, I'll give you shoes.

But cleaning supplies? For what? They aren't even allowed back into their houses.

[blm]

206. Because everything AROUND them is coated with the film from the water.

Alot of those people dragged what they could through that water.

Personally, I'm a Clorox freak. And I would bet anything that there are many more like me. Especially confronted with so many unknown bacterial elements set loose in the floods.

Besides, Kerry asked Landreiu what people were asking for and I would imagine that cleaning supplies ranked highly on that list.

Here's a damn good reason to want Clorox and any other ant-bacterial product:

tp://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBOM2ZNKDE.html

By Paul Elias and Alicia Chang Associated Press Writers
Published: Sep 13, 2005

As rising floodwaters swamped New Orleans, Louisiana's chief epidemiologist enlisted state police on a mission to break into a high-security government lab and destroy any dangerous germs before they could escape or fall into the wrong hands....

...Armed with bolt cutters and bleach, Dr. Raoult Ratard's team entered the state's so-called "hot lab," and killed all the living samples....

...At least Ratard's team was able to retrieve laptop computers containing vital scientific data. Many other scientists in the region weren't so fortunate, losing years of research, either through storm damage or voluntary destruction....


...One thin silver lining to all the lab damage: It appears that no deadly diseases were released from the area's "hot labs," where researchers routinely handle and store some of the world's most dangerous germs...
>>>>>>

What about the toxic wastes from all those hospitals and mortuaries that were flooded?

[Carolab]

215. Right. Thanks. n/t

[me b zola]

166. Thank you, Senator Kerry, thank you.

I could only read a quarter of the way through the thread. Many of the responses were disheartening, to say the least.

[chavi]

174. Kerry takes relief supplies.

Gore takes a plane to rescue victims.

Bush takes security and photographers.

Hmmmm...

[BL611]

176. You know a few days ago when Castro was talking about sending doctors...

There was a group of people ready to jump on anyone who might suggest opportunism was involved, but when John Kerry helps out of course it must be crassly political.Some of you should really quit spewing the vitriol for a second and think about what you're saying....

[The Backlash Cometh]

179. "I think it is not a new criticism that the Homeland Security Department

is not funded properly and they haven't had the kind of leadership necessary to prepare,"

Don't be afraid to go for the throat, Kerry! It's your right and your destiny!

[TankLV]

189. GOOD GOD PEOPLE! Kerry did something GOOD.

Give the man credit where credit is due!

Why does this have to turn into a Kerry bashing thread?

My god, have you all no compassion or dignity?

I have done my share of Kerry complaining, but this is not the time or place for it - you all might want to choose from the HUNDREDS OF OTHER THREADS to bash Kerry.

Jeebus - get a grip - take a rest - chill out with a nice cool beverage - smoke some pot - or stay away from this thread if Kerry bothers you so much!

Even I have my limits - and this has crossed over the line LONG TIME AGO!

[WildEyedLiberal]

208. Thank you TankLV

I have argued with you about things before, but it's certainly heartwarming to see someone who can separate criticism from vile opportunistic slams.

"My god, have you all no compassion or dignity?"

You said it better than I did. Peace. :pals:

[FlemingsGhost]

193. *** AN APOLOGY TO ALL AT DU (AND SEN. KERRY) ***

Most, if not all, of my comments in this thread are inappropriate, and I am sorry for "popping off" in such a knee-jerk manner. Certainly not my finest hour. The fact is, Sen. Kerry is helping ... and God bless the man for his efforts. I've come to accept that he *is* one of the good guys, regardless of my relatively uninformed perspective.

I also wanted to take the opportunity to apologize to the earnest members, mods and administrators of this site. I'm sure, at some point in the last four years, I've been a snarky, cynical son-a-bitch to many of you, and I am not proud of some of the so-called "debates" I've initiated.

I woke this morning resolved to shed my cynicism; my anger; my suffering. My gut tells me to begin with an apology. I hope you will accept it.



Flem.

[sabra]

194. No worries here. The 2004 elections was very hard for most of us here.

Even 10 months later, the debates go on. I appreciate your post.

Peace.

[Gnostic]

211. My 2 cents

I'm new here so excuse me if posting my attitude on this matter is out of line somewhat.

But here's my opinion for what it's worth. I read most of your posts and, though quite cynical they are, they are also among the most thought provoking. This, in my mind, is a good thing, and so is cynicism itself. To take things at face value constantly and not consider the flip side of every coin is blind and dogmatic. Some of our greatest leaders, and indeed even forefathers, were some of history's biggest cynics in regards to philosophy and politics, even religion....and it was those very attitudes which helped foster their ambitions to create an independent and free state.

Of course, going over-board or out of moderation with anything is a bad thing as well. But a healthy dose of cynicism, questioning of authority (which is really one of the most patriotic things a concerned citizen can do) and alternative viewpoints are the very cornerstones of a society of free speech, thought and will.

[FlemingsGhost]

216. Welcome to DU, and thanks for your input.

On the subject of cynicism, I'm simply trying to find some balance. The "healthy dose" you write of, seems to have eluded me, for some time now.

[0rganism]

202. Has this been covered at all by the corporate newsmedia?

I'm more than a little concerned that these efforts by prominent Dems are getting spiked completely, but I don't watch a lot of news anymore.

edit: From a news.google.com search on kerry, I only got two sources, in the Boston Herald and the Boston Globe: http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=102107
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/09/12/kerry_heads_south_with_planeload_of_hurricane_relief_supplies

I gather there may be more out there, but they're not showing up.

[Gnostic]

210. Every single politician....

....is going to be jumping on this huge PR opportunity.

I can hear all their handlers and advisors now, Dem or Repub. Get your ass down there with some supplies, and while you're at it make sure you give a few good little staged interviews with media reporters so you can stick your mug in front of the cameras and make yourself look like you actually give a rat's behind.

Yippee.

[chavi]

213. Gore didn't do that...

In fact, he wouldn't LET his trip turn into a photo op. He turned the media away.

[Gnostic]

214. Well

I'm not trying to be argumentative or flame baiting the issue. I just find that hard to believe....since it's, after all, in the media, and Kerry's camp knew it would be.

IMO it's a PR op that the big guns can't miss out on.

[chavi]

217. My post was about Gore...

What do you find hard to believe?

[Gnostic]

237. This

I find it hard to believe that ANY national politician would take a trip down there purely out of the goodness of their hearts with absolutely NO....I'll say it again.....NO PR intentions whatsoever.

Especially rich kids like Kerry who have never had a hard day in their lives (outside his Nam experience). I'm not knocking the man for what he's doing, it's fine, but I'm not going to sit here and think of him as a saint either. His handlers know this is a PR op of enormous magnitude and one that has to be taken advantage of, especially with all those poor black people who are prime candidates for a rich white politician's photo-op!

[keek]

218. politically expedient

If he would have been this much of an activist during the entire Bush reign, then maybe he'd have won the freaking election.

[Corey_Baker08]

221. Hey, Has Anyone Seen Wes Clark during this?

For all you people bitchin about how the late Democrat kerry finally showed up, wheres you general when you need him.

Id rather Kerry be late than no show like your General

[TankLV]

223. Not ONE SINGLE REPUKE has gone down there to help. NOT ONE!

Can anybody name a single repuke who has put any relief effort into it BY HIMSELF ON HIS OWN DIME like our countless dems have? I know I can't think of any!

I know of the usual suspects who have gone on PUBLICITY STUNTS to preen and crow WHEN THE CAMERAS ARE TURNED ON.

BUT NOT A SINGLE ONE HAS DONE A DAMN THING EXCEPT POINT FINGERS!

Even bunkerboy couldn't manage to bring a roll of toilet paper or rescue anybody on OUR fucking 747 that he has stolen with the office!

But let's all spend our time and energy on listing all the DEMOCRATS who as of yet haven't publicized their relief efforts! Yeah - that's the ticket!

[genieroze]

228. Carter, Gore now Kerry, hum I see a pattern here. The only positive puke

response to this was Poppy Bush and he was with Clinton.

[blm]

224. They are all doing what they can. I'm sure Wes is consulting with Witt

and other disaster experts because that is one of his prized skills.

None of them are late for ANY positive move...we just don't have a press that covers what they HAVE DONE and what they ARE doing.

I trust the hearts and the natures of the Dem leaders to be working on positive moves for the victims.

[Name removed]

236. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fedupinBushcountry]

241. How disgusting

Say that to the people he gave the supplies to. This type of post makes me sick. :puke:

[Name removed]

242. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

243. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anitar1]

240. I feel I have seen this on LBN for a few days, Why? n/t

[roguevalley]

244. every bazillioinaire needs to cough up a mill for this effort.

[VAMom]

248. Good on him!

Thank goodness someone with deep pockets and a realistic view is stepping up to help! I would love nothing more than seeing Kerry being up front with donations from his own pocket to show his compassion and to spur others to donate. This will win massive amounts of support.

As is typical, I didn't see anything in the MSM about his generosity. And we wonder who really controls the media.

Yeah, I ain't wondering

[Moderator]

256. locking

Thread seems to have run it's natural course.