House rebukes Bush, approves Iraqi loans

[wabeewoman]

Saw this first on ABC news. Said it was the first time so many repugs have stood up to bush. And then cut to bush saying he threatened to veto it-an unpopular position.


WASHINGTON - The House delivered a broad but ambiguous rebuke to President Bush on Tuesday, voting in favor of loans to Iraq and improved medical benefits for veterans and military reservists.

The 277-139 vote was nonbinding, but it highlighted a restiveness over Bush's insistence that U.S. rebuilding aid to Iraq be a grant, not a loan. House-Senate bargainers hope to produce a compromise $87 billion package for Iraq and Afghanistan next week, and GOP leaders in both chambers say they intend to drop Senate-passed language making half the rebuilding aid a loan.

The vote came the same day the White House threatened for the first time to veto the overall bill if the loan language survives.

on edit: LINK (sorry) http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/7070120.htm

[frank frankly]

1. President Stupid, use that veto!

I hope and hope and hope the Unelected Fraud uses the veto on this one. Please do it!

[jfxgillis]

4. They did back Bush

This is a bullshit nothing vote.

The Bill is already in Conference and the conferees are already majority in favor of Bush's position.

IF it gets out of conference AND it goes to the floor AND the loan requirement is in the conference report AND that report comes for a vote and THEN they vote against Bush, then and only then will we have something to crow about.

[Wickerman]

5. worse than bullshit

the Repugs who so want to can use this vote as proof in the 04 races that they did stand up to Bush* - they are independent. A load of crap.

[Beetwasher]

2. Damn! Link?

That's some heavy shit! I have to think about this for a bit. Weren't they propogandizing that the house would come around and back Bush? Is this the same bill the Senate just passed or a different version that has to be reconciled? They both have the loan provision now though right? That's heavy man. If he doesn't veto he's fucked. If he vetoes, he's fucked.

[dweller]

6. that's the way i heard it, on abc

house voted to pass with loans
senate also.

bush said he'd veto.

why isn't this good news?
must have been more to the story that wasn't reported?
:shrug:
dp

[goobergunch]

3. Here's the vote...Obey Motion to Instruct Conferees

ON MOTION TO INSTRUCT CONFEREES

H   R       3289
           YEAS NAYS PRES NV 
REPUBLICAN   84 137        7 
DEMOCRATIC  192   2       11 
INDEPENDENT   1       
TOTALS      277 139       18 
TIME REMAINING         0:00

http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2003&rollnumber=567

[ConcernedCanuk]

7. Hmmm - I'm a Confused Canuk over this whole issue

. . I mean, shouldn't the USA be paying MAJOR Reparations ? ? ? ,

after all, they INVADED Iraq.

They DESTROYED billions of dollars in infrastructure and property

and then there's that stuff the WH refers to as "collateral damage"

They MURDERED AND WOUNDED tens of thousands of civilians,

and I've never even heard a "guesstimate" of how many of Iraq's DEFENDERS were killed and wounded,

I suspect that is in the high 100's of thousands.

So, after a destructive,murdering invasion,

they wanna give the Iraqi's a LOAN ??

:shrug: can anyone explain this "logic" to me?

[candy331]

8. A loan can

always later be cancelled and turned into a grant so this all about giving cover to the repugs mostly to their constituents. Remember they "can't fool all the people all the time" Election is coming up and I suspect they know that the country is restless!

[neverforget]

9. The thing is, that "loan" will more than likely be taken out by the

time the House and Senate conference committee is done with it. It will end up as a grant in the end. This loan idea is a way of saying "wake up President Doofus, the American people are suffering at home too."

With all the lies that Bush has told the American people, something like this was going to happen. The Bush runup to the war touted how easy and quickly we will be out of Iraq and it will also be cheap in terms of lives and money. However, like everything else Bush touches, it turned to shit and his lies are coming back to haunt him. If you'll remember, the neocons said that Iraq will be able to pay us back with oil revenues. Well, that's not happening because the oil industry is in disrepair and it's being sabotaged. The loan idea is our way of expressing anger for what's happening.

[htuttle]

10. Of course it doesn't make sense -- nothing does nowdays

However, keep in mind that the lion's share of that $87 billion would not get anywhere NEAR an Iraqi, but would be gobbled up into Halliburton's comprehensive, unlimited contract. They've been charging nearly a 100% markup on the gasoline they've been paid to import to Iraq, for just one example.

So while it doesn't make any sense to grant a 'loan' to a country you've destroyed, it also wouldn't have helped any to pass the $87 billion under the conditions set out. In fact, it would hurt the eventual reconstruction, since that money would then be gone.

There wasn't even going to be any oversight, and the Bush administration could repurpose the money almost any way they saw fit.

There's no doubt that the US should pay reparations and reconstruction in Iraq, but it's not going to happen when Bush is in office (on his terms) no matter how much money is spent on it.

They'll just keep taking it for themselves and their cronies.

We're currently in the middle of a bank heist gone bad.

[BeFree]

11. All's fair in love and invasions

You make a very good point.... after what * did it seems the right thing to do would be to own up to fixin' things.

However, I get this feeling that our Reps. got a lot of heat from their constituents about the grand sum of $87 really big ones. So to get around that, a loan is proposed.

I see it being forgiven in a few years anyway.

Also... a loan means someone makes a coupla' points for the BFEE's bankers. Let's see... 3 points on $87 really big ones, comes to.....

[ConcernedCanuk]

12. interesting take on ur name der "BeFree"

. . take out the first e and the r

- whaddya got ?

"BFEE" !!!

was that a consideration in ur nic ??

Just a Curious Canuk Question

[BeFree]

13. No, Be Free is just that, Be Free

A name given to me by a sweetheart on a mail list I read.

I used to sign of as "Be Free or suffer the consequences", long before I ever saw the moniker BFEE. Was wondering if it caused any confusion here. Thanks for your Curious Concern, Canuck.

[JackSwift]

15. Yeah, we won

to the victor go the spoils. Not the other way around. Geez, if we have to pay reparations to everyone we conquer, we might start getting invitations for wars.

[JackSwift]

14. He's an idiot

It is standard procedure for a President to forgive loan indebtedness and later get Congressional approval. He's just stupidly flexing muscle here. I wonder whether he will back down and make his Congressional delegation look good.