8 in 10 Want Drivers to Drop SUVs-POLL

[IChing]

By WILL LESTER
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Eight in 10 people say it's important for Americans now driving sport utility vehicles to switch to more fuel-efficient vehicles to reduce the nation's dependence on oil, a poll found.

With gas prices hovering around $3 a gallon nationally and the price of natural gas rising sharply, six in 10 said they are not confident President Bush is taking the right approach to solving the nation's energy problems, according to the survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press.

Given several choices for dealing with energy problems, the public has some clear preferences:

-Almost seven in 10 want the government to establish price controls on gasoline and want more spending on subway, rail and bus systems.>>>>snip

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ENERGY_POLL?SITE=MNMAN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-09-15-14-58-38

But have you seen the new cars for this fall from the big 3?

[ET Awful]

1. And the other 2 want to drop SUV drivers

:evilgrin:

[trotsky]

4. Ha ha ha

Nice. :)

[ET Awful]

9. Thank you

I'll be here all . . . well for a while anyway :)

[bozo299]

79. 9 out of 10 think everyone else should take the bus

old joke from the Onion, but it says a lot about polls.

[barb162]

103. hahahaha, great line

and where are more pictures of those pussycats

[Skidmore]

2. I don't know about new cars for fall, but I do know our local

car dealers no longer have row after row of SUVs or vans on their lots. Actually not too many of those macho trucks out there either, but I suspect that has more to do with Ford's F150s recall than a market for them since we are in a rural area.

[Atman]

3. Here we go again...definitions, anyone?

Are a Hummer or an Escalade SUVs, or do they mean a Toyota RAV4?

Should a Chrysler Town & Country MiniVan, twice the size of a Hyundai Tuscon "SUV," also going to be "given up?" How about a Kia Sportage 4 cyl? It is an SUV. Oh, and so is the new Subaru Tribeca, although it looks more like a car. And don't get me started on the Pacifica.

This is a stupid argument, because there are no longer any clear definitions of what an "SUV" is. Americans are just jumping on the petro-boogeyman bandwagon, without thinking about the implications what they're saying.

[IChing]

8. I would think that it's any vehicle exempted from CAFE small truck to big

The subaru forester is straight off the imprezza frame and engine, so it's suspension is made from a car, with improvements.

[Atman]

10. Subaru classified it as a "Light Truck" so it could beat gov safety regs

So what is it? Light Truck, or car? The list is endless...next time you're at an intersection, compare the size of minivans to "light trucks." Of small SUVs like the Tuscon, to a Hummer. How anyone can lump all these vehicles into one category is beyond me. The only thing they have in common is four tires.

[Coastie for Truth]

13. Some simple definitions based upon

1. Miles per gallon
2. Gross vehicle weight
3. Net vehicle weight
4. "Shadow area" (Length times width)

would work nicely.

Don't even need a PhD from the "General Motors Academy" (Univ of Michigan at Ann Arbor, where Dave Cole, the son of former GM CEO Ed Cole, is/was Dean) or MSU or Wayne or U of D or Oakland U or Lawrence Tech to figure that out.

[Atman]

19. Were the poll respondents asked to do the math first?

Just curious. Otherwise, what did they base their opinions on?

[Coastie for Truth]

30. Don't know

but for a while I lived in the Great Lakes State, adjuncted at Lawrence Tech, worked on GM's electric vehicle, and my kid is an MSU engineering grad --- and had to put up with the one party rule ("GMFORDCHRYSLERUAW Party")---

BTW - did you know that John Conyers is one of the largest auto dealers- and Sander and Carl Levin's law firm represents Ford, and John Dingle's wife is a GM Vice President --- talk about automotive incest. That's Michigan.

[Tesha]

77. You might also see how the manufacturers classified them.

> Some simple definitions based upon...

You might also see how the manufacturers classified them.

If they classified the vehicles as "light trucks" just to beat the
safety or CAFE regs (or to let them put pitch-black glass in the
back), then offer them a choice:

o Do the necessary engineering to re-classify them as cars, or

o Eat shit and die.

Ther's no reason why a bunch of the smaller CAVs and most of the
minivans couldn't simply be re-engineered to be "cars"; most of them
are based on "car" platforms and so are very close as it is.

Tesha

[Mithheru]

29. To me an SUV is...

a ridiculously large vehicle that you can't see around in a parking lot.

And the SUV drivers are even more ridiculous. It's unreal the stares I get when I'm crossing the road as a pedestrian. Most of those stares are actually not at me, but at the road trying to not see me as I cross the road and they tear through without any concern.

Or how about those that pull up to an intersection and block the pedestrian pathway. They stare at me like I'm the one doing something wrong while I have to wait for them to move.

...Ok, better stop while I can before my blood pressure rises. :mad:

...Did I mention I hate SUV drivers?

[ClintonTyree]

34. I have a Ford Escape Hybrid.........

can we still be pals? ;)

[Mithheru]

61. Sure, we can still be pals...

as long as you are kind to pedestrians like me.

I don't drive so I am a very seriously big supporter of public transit and anything to do with pedestrians and their safety.

Yes, there are some nuts out there as pedestrians just like drivers out there; not much that can be done about that. But we can live together in harmony without becoming hood ornaments on your vehicles.

Just remember to give them the right-of-way. If I remember correct it is a law everywhere.

[LostinVA]

38. Or see around or over when you're trying to pull out

That, and backing up in lots, drives me CRAZY. What drives me crazier is 99% of these people do not need an SUV. They need a wagon or a minivan, but I guess they aren't cool enough.

[Atman]

42. I traded my minivan for an SUV

The SUV is smaller, considerably, than the Windstar, which was a big, heavy, hog of a vehicle. Good thing it wasn't an "SUV" though!

Oh, and coolness had nothing to do with ditching it. The second time the block cracked was enough reason for me. Sitting by the side of the road waiting for a tow was way more uncool than the damned minivan.

[Broken_Hero]

64. God i hate the Ford Windstar.

I hate it, i truly do. My wife and i have had a hell of a time with ours. But anyways, i think, an SUV is anything big/bulky/has gas mileage in the teens....our windstar is borderline 19/20 miles a gallon, and trust me, my wife and i are trading this worthless piece of trash in for something else, and yeah, it will be a smaller vehicle, but its primarily because the van is a piece of garbage. Plus the gas is an issue, just last week i put in 54 dollars to fill it up, i had a heart attack...my wife punched me in the chest, and told me GWB is dead, and i came back to life...:)

I dont' know what kind of vehicle we are going to get but its going to be a coupe, like a dodge stratus, or neon, maybe a honda! But i'm never going back to ford...

[Tesha]

78. A word to the wise: "Dodge" ain't a brand name, it's a warning.

> ...like a dodge stratus, or neon, ...

A word to the wise: "Dodge" ain't a brand name, it's a warning.

The reliability of all Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge vehicles is
simply attrocious. There will be *NO* further Dodges in my
future, even if I were to win one in a lottery.

Tesha

[DenaliDemocrat]

98. You know diesels are a great option

better mileage, less toxic fuels. Sure everyone THINKS diesels are dirty, but they are not. Diesel has considerable less benzene, toluene, and ethylbenzene (the truly nasty stuff) and also a much higher range carbon chain. They are loud, and they smell, but they are much more fuel efficient and the fuel is much less toxic.

[Atman]

40. Yeah, passenger car drivers never do that sort of thing

No. Only those eeevil SUV driver stop in cross walks, and glare at pedestrians.

[Mithheru]

62. Everytime that happens to me...

I feel that I'm getting a mental message from that driver that pretty much says this:

I'm better than you. I have a big honking vehicle and you don't and I'm blocking your path. What are you going to do to make me move out of your way?


In response, I usually visibly shake my head at them cursing them under my breath.

[reprobate]

90. I just point at their vehicle and laugh. Drives them bonkers.

It's also satisfying to imagine them at the pump and watch their money fly away to Saudi royalty.

[Mithheru]

93. I may try that.

That would be a really good stress reliever for me seeing them all smug in their fancy vehicle blocking my path laughing at them. Might even attract unwanted attention on them and let them know in a fun way that I didn't like what they did.

[redqueen]

95. That's what I do... laugh as I think about their fuel costs...

suckers... :D

[silvermachine]

94. For me it's like obscenity...

...(in more ways than one), namely, I know it when I see it.

[MADem]

102. When they are in front of you at the light, you cannot see the light

change!!

Pig cars, pig people. If you are working in a ranch, live on a mountain, deal with poor roads and rough weather, that is one thing, but these assholes with their polished vehicles that they never need to switch into four wheel drive are just PIGS.

Hey, I get good mileage from my crappy old subcompact, I limit my driving, combine trips, think before I turn the key, and keep the car, old as it is, very well maintained. And I will always offer to pick someone up if they are going to the same place I am headed.

If people would do even small things, it would make a difference. But this administration frowns on such personal virtue....

[Justyce]

33. I drive a Ford

Escape -- it gets better gas mileage than my old Neon did...

[trogdor]

49. Definitions my ass.

What is a compact SUV? A compact car in a deliberately inefficient configuration designed mainly for style. Would there even be such a thing as a RAV4 if not for the Escalade, the Expedition, or the Suburban? Hell no.

People buy SUV's because they can pull their 14-foot boats with them. People buy SUV's because they live in Vermont and they need four wheel drive to stay out of the ditch in the winter. People buy SUV's because they feel "safer" in them (although common-sense dictates otherwise). People buy SUV's to rub people's noses in it. People buy SUV's because their neighbor just got one. People buy SUV's for all sorts of reasons, but they don't buy SUV's for gas mileage.

Automakers like compact SUV's because they can classify them as trucks and don't have to make them as energy efficient, as clean, or as safe as cars. The RAV4, and vehicles like it, are "have your cake and eat it too" vehicles. They are alternatives for people who don't have 40 grand to throw down on a full-size SUV, but can't bring themselves to settle for a Honda Civic. They are for people who think they can say, "well, my mini-SUV gets 23 MPG, so STFU," and people will indeed be happy to STFU and concede the argument. It obfuscates the issue, which is that if you're not scaling your vehicle purchase to your actual vehicle needs, you're part of the problem.

[Atman]

50. What did that rant have to do with your subject line?

There is very little in there that I didn't say already, in one form or another. I am one of those New Englanders who needs an SUV. I have an S-10 size, not as small as a RAV4, but smaller than your average minivan. The 4x4 is vital, as is the lay-flat cargo area (used for both hauling and occasionally as an RV, to sleep in.

The problem I continue to have with this argument is that the posts such as yours -- including yours -- are long on subjective generalizations, but very short on practical solutions. Once again, how do you legislate what the guy at 100 Main Street says he needs, as opposed to the guy at 101 Main Street? If you're going to make demands, offer a solution. You're not...you're just joining the list of people making broad-brush generalizations that make you feel good. Not unlike the charge you level against SUV drivers. I'd argue that MOST people buy the vehicle that makes them feel good. It is one hell of an expense...I want to like it.

If it makes you feel good to drive a Civic because you feel you're saving the world, more power to you. But what next? Why not call for three-wheeled Euro cars. After all, isn't that all anyone needs to get around? Maybe mandate bikes on odd days of the week.

Not trying to do put-downs, just trying to make people THINK about this argument, instead of just making feel-good proclamations of vehicular superiority.

[hogwyld]

52. Need is subjective

I think if you make it prohibitively expensive to own an SUV/Truck with a gas guzzler surcharge every time it's registered, you will weed out the people who actually need one versus someone that just wants to look cool. I've lived in Alaska, drove a minicar with studded tires. Worked like a charm. Tire chains are also an option.

[Atman]

55. Tire chains are banned in many states

They totally chew up the pavement. And I can't fit sheets of plywood in a Euro car. And I'd have to sleep sitting up.

I will admit, we're in the market for a used Corolla or Prizm (same thing only cheaper). The last one we had went everywhere...great in snow, we beat the crap out of it taking it "off roading" on camping trips. You couldn't kill it. It started in the coldest of cold, made it through knee-deep snow. Best car I've ever owned. I will buy the next one I see that I can afford.

The last Corolla was retired at 240,000 miles, after the repairs were beginning to cost more than the value of the car.

[trogdor]

81. You gotta read the parent post.

It was the usual, "there are SUV's and then there are SUV's." It's an excuse, not a real defense. Moreover:

1. I did not advocate any sort of government interference in your auto purchasing choices.
2. I did mention that certain people, such as those who must drive over mountains in New England, might actually have a use for four wheel drive.

Furthermore, I do not feel compelled to offer solutions every time I point out what should be obvious. That would make my posts overly long, and nobody wants to read screen after screen of obligatory disclaimers, alternative theories, and whatever else you might demand I tack on to the end of my posts. Maybe someone else might want to offer solutions. In fact, other people have been more than helpful in that regard, and my adding to it would have been redundant.

I stand by my statement. You either need an SUV, or you do not. Too many people buying them because somebody told them 235723957235 times on television that they're "cool" has resulted in travesties like the RAV4 which offers subcompact comfort with SUV-like economy, and the new Outback, which looks like a car except if you work at the EPA, in which case it's a truck, so it can pollute and guzzle more than would otherwise be allowable.

Given that it's 2005, and the next Presidential election being three years away, the time for solutions to these sort of travesties has past for the time being. We're not going to get any from the current administration, and I'm not about to sit here listing them for the choir to read for the 24357285672th time. Life's too short.

[reprobate]

91. Possible solution: Mandate vehicle MPG based on vehicle weight and haul..

....weight. Impose a tax on the vehicle based on those that don't meet the required standards. You'd see fuel use go down as people dumped the fuel hogs and migrated to more fuel efficient vehicles.

[jahyarain]

82. what i don't understand is why anyone owns these fucking things

anymore. they have "penis enhancement" drugs on the market now.

[reprobate]

92. But they only work for those named "Bob".

[reprobate]

89. Don't get me started on Escalades. My car is in the body shop now.......

....because the driver of an Escalade backed into it and took off. It was witnessed by a woman who copied the license number down wrong so we have no insurance company to go against. $1500 damage in a bumper to bumper slow collision.

You have to wonder why someone with the money for a vehicle like that would bother to hit and run. If the witness had gotten his license right the fool could have been charged with a felony. But I guess that's about as smart as depending on a hunk of metal and plastic for your ego.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

5. I wonder

how many of those 8 out of 10 are SUV drivers themselves because I sure see a lot of them on the road.

[Coastie for Truth]

22. I had an SUV when I lived in the real snow belt

---because Ford and Chrysler and Toyota had discontinued their 4 WD/AWD family cars, Subaru wasn't sold in my area, and I couldn't afford an Audi Quattro.

And as soon as I moved to the Sun Belt I got rid of that gas guzzler.

[bleedingheart]

6. A lot of SUV drivers can't give up their car because they will lose $$$

trade in value for the cars won't be equal to what they owe ...so do we force them into more debt?

Life is about choices. You can chose to own a gas pig and that is your choice...

[Atman]

12. POLL; Many SUV drivers want to drop Bush

They say he is not fuel efficient.

Life IS about choices. We've had this discussion so many times. I'm one of the ones who cannot possibly get rid of my "light truck." I NEED it. I purchased it barely a year ago, used, so I cannot possibly get enough money for it to make it economically feasible to trade it in. Those are just the facts. I don't care what the polls say.

[bleedingheart]

25. I own a toyota minivan

and it is not fuel efficient compared to my corolla...but I need it too...but it is paid off and has 104K miles...so perhaps next year I will trade it in or just wait until it dies on me...hopefully I won't be in the squirrel hill tunnel when it happens...as i would be terribly embarassed.

[tammywammy]

107. I work at a car dealership

I can tell you, every day I see at least one mad person. What are they mad about....trade in. They have a truck or SUV and are getting crap for their trade, because no one wants them. And most of the time, we don't keep the vehicle around, we send it off to auction, because otherwise it's clogging up the used lot.

But, it's good to see these SUVs and trucks pulling in. You know they want out of that vehicle. And they're here to ask about diesel. (But then they're surprised that we have none on the lot, because of the high demand, but you can order one or put a deposit on one of the ones on their way. When a TDI hits the lot, and doesn't have a deposit already on it, it sticks around for 2 days max before it's sold.)

[demzilla]

7. Hybrids are the future -- Toyota to go all-hybrid one day

http://www.platinum.matthey.com/media_room/1126800057.html

From Toyota's head of research:

Without mentioning a specific deadline, he declared: "In the future, the cars you see from Toyota will be 100 per cent hybrid."

[Debau2005]

11. Hybrids

I would love to go to something more full efficient, such as a hybrid. However, I need something to pull a horse trailer. Give me something in a hybrid with that ability and that does not cost more then a new house, and I'll be giving it a go!

[Tyler Durden]

17. See, you have a REASON to own one of them.

It's the clowns driving their Cadillac ESCALADES, ALONE, TO WORK ON A 40-50 MILE ONE-WAY COMMUTE that drive the rest of us NUTS.

[Lorien]

27. Most hybrids cost little more than non-hybrids

a Prius, for instance, costs as much as a standard Camry-and has as much interior space.Plus, if gas goes up to $5 a gallon...well, you do the math. SUV hybrids have plenty of towing capacity; the idea that hybrids scrimp on performance is a GOP myth.

[tammywammy]

108. But a hybrid won't really work for me

80% of my driving (if not more) is all highway. I'm stuck in stop & go maybe once every couple of months.

I'm waiting on my Beetle TDI (diesel) that will be here the first week of November.

I think people forget about diesel. I'll be getting good mpg, and it suits my driving better than a hybrid.

[underpants]

and the market speaks

Thanks Detroit we never asked for them anyway

[Tyler Durden]

20. You just NAILED it.

MARKETING is why everyone wants one of those penis extensions.

Hey, if you NEED one, like to pull a horse trailer, then GOOD.

But if you live in SUBURBIA and just WANT one, I think a SURCHARGE is in order.

[Atman]

28. Explain how you'd propose to police that?

I know you're only speaking in hypotheticals, but please, you're making big proclamations for a supposed freedom-loving democrat. Will you have Need Police? Will I have to fill out a questionaire and submit to a lifestyle check in order to register one?

Just curious how the SUV-haters propose to weed out those of us who need an SUV for work/lifestyle from the grocery-store SUVs.

[Tyler Durden]

72. VERY simple.

Take a page from the Canadians. They license FARM, COMMERCIAL, and "CIVILIAN" vehicles differently, and they require AT REGISTRATION some declaration of use.

[hogwyld]

75. Bingo

That is the best solution I have seen yet. We can learn a lot from the Canucks. Do you know what the fines are if you register one way and use it for something else?

[Voltaire99]

101. "Those of us who need a SUV for work/lifestyle"

You're arguing like anyone who thinks self-fulfillment is the highest good.

Your believe because you haul around plywood and sleep in your SUV, the fulfillment of your personal "need" means we must suspend our social imperative for cleaner air, safer roads, greater fuel efficiency and less dependence on foreign oil.

You next muddy the issue by claiming it's too hard to determine who "needs" to drive a wasteful, socially-irresponsible vehicle--as opposed to someone who's doing so for hypothetically less important reasons than lumber hauling. You even try to make defending your SUV use sound like a case for the ACLU!

Nice try. The reason for use is irrelevant. Impact is what counts.

Bottom line: the cost of subsidizing your self-fulfillment is too high for society, indeed for the planet. And it won't be hard to reign it in with a broad, across-the-board fuel tax on all SUVs.

[nickinSTL]

14. I'd be happy to switch to a hybrid SUV

I love SUVs, at least the look, the room, etc., but not the mpg.

I'd love to have one of the new Highlander hybrids...but I still owe more on my 2001 Hyundai than it's worth...so I'm stuck...unless someone'd like to finance my switch :evilgrin:

Ideally, I'd be able to afford a new vehicle about the time the redesigned RAV4 (scheduled to be available in December) is available in a hybrid (don't know when that'll be, but I have to believe it's coming)

[0007]

15. The real way to get rid of SUV's would be to ration gas.

[valerief]

18. Yeah, but it would be based on income

The more income you have, the more gas you're rationed.

[0007]

53. The rations weren't base on income during the rationing during WW II

So why would it be now?

[valerief]

59. Different WH, different Congress.

[0007]

60. No shit sherlock!

[happyslug]

71. Under Carter when Rationing was proposed but never Implemented

The Ration coupons were based on Vehicle Registration instead of Driver's License. Thus if you could afford to upkeep an old junker (or many old junkers) you would get more Gasoline Coupons for use in your car that you did use. How many poor people could do that?

The reason Automobile Registration was adopted for to many people had driver's License but did not own a car. The powers that be did NOT want such people to have Gasoline Ration Coupons, instead wanted to to go to Automobile owners.

Now on the face of it this sounds reasonable, but the system also had a "White Market" system attached to it i.e. people who received Coupons could Sell those coupons. In seems the proposal came out the bureaucrats promoted under the previous Nixon/Ford Administration and given its inherent discrimination for people with money Carter only used Rationing as a threat as opposed to actually adopting rationing.

One side note, at the time I was in Collage and working a a clerk for UPS. UPS was worried that it would have to drop its smaller gasoline powered trucks and use larger diesel powered trucks. That is how "well" the ration plan had been (and another problem was Dollar for change machines were just coming into use, and the machines, in tests, would treat the Coupons as one dollar bills, remember Gasoline in the late 1980s was about 80cents a gallon).

Now the WWII rationing program was better design. If you look at the movies of the time period you will see a sticker with a large A on the windshield. Most people had "A" Sticker which permitted you to buy gasoline up to the limit of your coupons (About 4 gallons a week, which is what most car owners had to limit themselves to). Prior ty people (Generally tied in with production for the Military) had "B" Stickers which permitted them to buy twice as much gasoline as a person with an "A" Sticker (About 8 gallons a week). "C" Sticker had unlimited purchase (but were rare, tied in with essential services, Doctors, police, etc), "T" Stickers for Truckers (Who had special rules restricting them local deliveries only) and the legendary "X" stickers for VIP (Mostly Congressmen and high Government Officials).

As a whole the WWII Rationing worked. Most people did not yet own cars (Automobile would NOT go into replacement mode till 1954, by replacement mode I mean when most people were buying a Automobile to replace another Automobile as opposed to buying their first Automobile). Thus WWII Car Ownership was like 1990 Computer ownership, i.e. people were buying replacement but the big market was in selling to first time buyers.

The majority of people either walked or used public transportation in the 1940s. Thus cutting back on gasoline rationing did NOT Directly affect the majority of Americans. America's First "Super Highway" the Pennsylvania Turnpike was only finished in 1940 (and it was built on an abandoned and never completed railroad bed of the 1880s through the Mountains of Pennsylvania, on each end of the Mountains you had to go back on US 30 a two lane highway until the Turnpike was expanded in the 1950s to Ohio and New Jersey). The Interstate Highway system was not started till 1954 (Through in the late 1940s you saw the start of Construction of various Limited Excess highway throughout the US).

My point here was in 1941 the US was NOT the automobile depended Country it is today. The Vast Majority of people had options other than Automobiles (and the few people who did not have options were given additional rations under WWII rationing, distance between home and work was a factor in how many ration coupons you received). I do not know if it would work today. The rationing plan made under Carter in my opinion would have failed do to its dependence on Automobile registration as opposed to driver's licenses. The best solution if Rationing should be implemented would be first by price (preferable by a High Gasoline tax to pay for alternatives). People could than make their own decision as to how much gasoline their will use by how much their are willing to pay (and if by Government tax, giving the Government to pay for expansion of Public Transit and to make roads more compatible with Bicycles).





An Article from WWII on Rationing:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyfulton/Salute/WWIIrations.html

An Example of How WWII Rationing worked:
http://www.coba.usf.edu/satterfield/warstuff/gas_and_tire.htm

How WWII Rationing worked:
http://www.prewarbuick.com/id389.htm

[Mountainman]

16. I suppose some Duer wants to fininsh my SUV payments so I can get a

a more fuel efficient auto. Who will it be? Come on, put your money where your mouth is.

You could be driving a 50 MPG car and burn more gas per week than I do. This whole discussion lacks logical thinking. It is all emotion.

"Na na na na na na my car is smaller than yours."

[Atman]

23. Bingo. Sign me up, too.

I'd love a new Hybrid. Oh, and who's gonna take my "light truck?"

[Tyler Durden]

24. If you NEED it, more power to you.

My opinion is that if someone just WANTS one, perhaps a little group therapy might be cheaper in the long run.

Hey, no offense if you got stuck in the crunch. I can dig it: I live in the only non-bubble area of the real estate boom in St. Clair County, and I have to lose the house or sink. sucks.

[Orsino]

63. Bingo.

The folks who suddenly decide they don't need their phallic symbols when gas becomes more expensive? Well, maybe they didn't ever really need them.

Want me to finance your switch to a more fuel-efficient vehicle? I want you to pitch in on financing alternative energy research, since you've helped to make the matter so urgent. I already am helping you, through those significant tax breaks you could get for buying hybrids. Five minutes' research--even decades ago--would have told you that we are headed for a big crunch, but no, shiny metal Viagra was too appealing.

Sorry to rant. I know some folks do have real needs for huge, low-mpg vehicles. I just hope you're only driving them when you really need to.

[Tyler Durden]

73. You got it right.

The only reason we still have the MINIVAN is the damned thing is paid for.

If someone needs a TRACTOR, by all means, let them have it. If it's "metal Viagra" (DOG I love that image), then let them be taxed for the privilege.

[Lorien]

31. Rising gas prices, rising oceans, more powerful storms

dependence on foreign oil, mass species extinction, famine,terrorism...yeah, burning less fossil fuel is so darned "illogical".

[Mountainman]

35. That's not relevant to what I meant. People can't just switch to a more

fuel efficient car just because they want to. That's what I mean about lack of logic. So much of what is said ignores reality. I want us to get off of oil as much as the next guy.

My idea is to have the government build factories and make fuel efficient cars that people can afford. Hire the unemployed and at some point in time give the factory over to the workers.

It does no good to beat people up while you blissfully ignore the big picture or ignore a lot of the facts. Also if you raise the price of gas you hurt people because they still have to drive.

I get so sick of the holier than thou attitude of some DUers, it's as disgusting as a freeper rant.

[Atman]

43. Kinda reminds me of the "they just should have left New Orleans" posts

Sure. Easy enough to SAY...what is the reality?

[Maddy McCall]

58. That's the dumbest-assed post I've read.

Don't compare Katrina victims, most of whom are impoverished and didn't have a vehicle--much less an overpriced shitbox to evacuate in--to your stupid (non-life-threatening) decision to BUY a shitbox.

One reason I've stayed away from DU since the hurricane (the effects of which I am still dealing with on a daily basis) is because of stupid comments like yours. DO NOT use hurricane victims to support your point. Not only is it comparing apples to oranges; it's also selfish and callous.

[Maddy McCall]

57. No. The lack of logic was in the initial decision to buy a gas hogging

shit box.

[Mountainman]

65. I glad to see that there are such bright minds here at DU

Your thoughts really elevate the discussion. I now know what a stupid person I really am. Thanks for that insight.

[hippywife]

111. Just what I was thinking, Maddy.

The issue needing alternative fuels and renewable energy is not a new one. I guess the one bad thing about a good economy like we saw in the 90's is that it encourages people to stop thinking about what is important for the future and live like there is no tomorrow.

[Maddy McCall]

56. It's no one's responsibility but yours. You initially made the bad choice.

You can live with the consequences.

Just because I think your initial choice to buy an SUV was stupid and selfish doesn't mean that it's my responsibility to correct your stupid decision.

Wish you could have been down here when the hurricane hit. SUV drivers were the scourge of the miles-long gas lines. And if that sentiment can arise in the deep South, I'd hate to be you in a blue state.

Actually, I'd hate to be you anywhere. If I had an SUV that I bought on credit, I'd eat the loss and buy a car I COULD afford to gas up.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hogwyld]

67. What of the future?

So you can afford the gas and don't mind burning all the fuel you damn well please! What will we leave for our children? A polluted planet with no oil left because you wanted to drive a he-man vehicle?
tsk-tsk.

[Mountainman]

68. Well you should thank me for giving you an object to go off on.

It's useless to discuss this here.

[Maddy McCall]

99. Ummm. It was YOUR post that was deleted. Who's "going off?"

[jahyarain]

85. unless you use it for work,

why did you buy the disgusting thing in the first place? and why should anyone else pay for your mistakes?

[phantom power]

21. Wait a minute. Don't more than 2/10 people *own* SUVs?

Does that mean some fraction of SUV owners are saying "I think we should switch!"

[Coastie for Truth]

26. In my condo complex

it's down from 50% before 9/11 to about 15% now.

[napi21]

32. It really doesn't matter what 8 of 10 people want.

If you have an SUV, and the damn thing isn't paid for, you CAN'T just DROP IT! I don't have one, and I only personally know one person who does. I've been ragging on her ever since she got it! I know she bought it because all the "upper class moms" had one, and she had to have one too!!! She's flippin out now at how much it costs to fill the tank! However...she still owes $6,000 more than the SUV is worth! She has no choice but to keep it!

I'm sure she's not the only person in that same spot!

[slackmaster]

37. That's why I buy only lightly used vehicles

And pay cash.

[napi21]

41. I agree. I haven't bought a new vehicle for over 30 years!

I can't say I always paid cash, but the big depreciation hit was already taken by the original owner.

I guess it wouldn't do much for the auto mfgs if everybody did like us though!

[Atman]

45. For the record, while I didn't pay cash, I did buy used

and let someone else take the depreciation hit, as well. My SUV looks brand new. But I still owe money on it, and the recent gas situation has made its trade-in value drop like a stone.

[Atman]

44. Another view from non-reality land

Great! Why didn't I think of that? All I need to do is buy a hi-resale value, lightly used vehicle and pay cash for it. It's so simple!

Now, where did I leave that pile of thousand dollar bills?

[slackmaster]

46. It takes some planning, time, and a lot of personal discipline

I know most people can't do that at any given moment, but in terms of long-term financial planning paying cash for vehicles saves you boatloads of money.

Getting an education and a decent job help a lot too.

[slackmaster]

36. I'll give up my Pathfinder when they pry it from my cold, dead hands

Or when gasoline hits $5 per gallon.

And not a moment sooner.

[TheCowsCameHome]

39. Wahl, Wherema gonna put mah gunrak inna Honder Insight? Heh?

Gotta tote mah wepinry inna back winder fer the worl to see.

[T-Jeff_Dem]

47. BioDiesel

Want a big car that doesn't burn gas? Think plant oil.

http://www.biodiesel.org/

[tammywammy]

109. Thanks!

I'm also a big proponent of Bio-diesel.

My Beetle TDI is currently being made, and it'll show up at the dealership the first week of Nov (maybe a couple of weeks earlier if I'm lucky).

People can also check out www.tdiclub.com for more info on TDI engines and bio diesel as well.

[hogwyld]

48. Prove it

Just have congress pass a law requiring proof that you need an SUV/light truck. Slap a huge gas guzzler surcharge on the registration of said vehicles every year, and see how many "need" these things! Raise the CAFE minimums to 40 mpg, and pretty soon, we'll all be driving Trabants!

[trogdor]

83. Actually, the Trabant got lousy mileage.

It stunk up the place, too, and could only do about 35 with your foot on the floor. Little bitty two-stroke motor.

[livefrom]

51. How is this different

from when we they told us all to drive small cars in the '70s and '80s? Won't we just go back to big cars and SUVs anyway?

[hogwyld]

54. Not necessarily

Not if congress gets a spine and slaps huge taxes and fees on these things. People won't spend 60k on an SUV if they can get capable, good MPG transport for 15-20k

[Megahurtz]

69. Get RID of those pieces of shits! n/t

[Gman]

70. 8 in 10 people here ini Texas drive a truck or SUV

[Endangered Specie]

74. My Sympathy = 0

[Carolab]

76. I HATE SUVS! They are not only guzzlers but dangerous & obstruct views.

Studies have PROVEN how unsafe they are and how prone to rolling over. Plus, I can't count how many times I've tried to read signs around/over/beyond an SUV.

GET THEM OFF THE ROAD!

[tom_paine]

80. It's not like the Imperial Subjects of Amerika have any say

Time to live with the consequences of ignorance and apathy, bootlickers!

You gave it all away and NOW the chickens have only begun to come home to roost.

This is only the BEGINNING of the end. These ARE The Good Old Days.

[Blackwater]

84. 10 out of 10 should drive whatever they want to drive.

This is America. The choice is yours.

[XNASA]

86. Why stop there?

Why not just say, "Drive whatever you want to drive, wherever you want to drive, as fast as you want to drive and everyone else be damned."

That's what you really mean, isn't it?

[Blackwater]

87. No...

It's about having a choice. I have an SUV that sits in the garage most of the time, but if I it snows or I’m heading to my mountain cabin, I have a choice.

[XNASA]

88. Actually, it's about having a rational choice.

Not any choice.

[hogwyld]

97. Not for long

If you keep driving your SUV (which should be outlawed) America will becomw a colony of Saudi Arabia or some other OPEC country. Is it really worth it?

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pretty_in_CodePink]

96. Interesting. Where I live seems that 5 out 0f 10 already drive SUVs

The gigantic ones!

[HoosierClarkie]

104. I feel I have no choice

because I live in country. My road, which used to be gravel until three years ago, never gets plowed. Nearest neighbor is 1 mile away.

[SemperEadem]

105. the sad thing about SUV's is that you won't get anything for them

in trade ins or selling outright. They can't move them with gas prices being what they have become (and will remain).

Might as well turn it into a decorative planting bed, because that's about what it's worth.

[tammywammy]

110. exactly

I work at a dealership. SUVs and trucks are getting crap for their trade, because no one wants them. And we don't keep them around, they usually head to the auction.

Good news though, someone did trade in their Hummer for a more fuel-efficient vehicle last week. (Hummer then immediately went to auction)

[Geo55]

106. Prove You're Dumber! ---

Prove You're Dumber! ---
Drive a Hummer!