Conservatives Balk As Spending Soars In Katrina's Wake

[sonicx]

WASHINGTON -- The open-ended commitment by President Bush and congressional leaders to rebuild New Orleans and the Gulf Coast is stoking anger among conservatives over the Republican government's record of higher spending and debt.

Following the nation's worst-ever natural disaster, no Republican in Congress is opposing federal aid that already totals $62 billion and is expected to exceed $200 billion. But the party's conservative wing, led yesterday by Oklahoma's Tom Coburn in the Senate and Rep. Mike Pence of Indiana in the House, is calling for offsetting "sacrifices" in federal spending. And they're backed by a growing chorus of conservative activists, columnists and bloggers.

"It's not about taking care of the folks that need us," Mr. Coburn said in an interview. "But I wouldn't vote for another penny until we get real about the hard choices of cutting some spending." In what would be a real break for conservatives, Mr. Coburn said he is also not inclined to vote to extend the Bush tax cuts absent some fiscal restraint.

The divisions go to a broader debate over the party's identity and legacy a decade after Republicans broke Democrats' 40-year control of Congress and nearly five years after they captured the White House as well.

But conservatives' rebelliousness threatens a range of Bush initiatives before Congress. Moreover, Republican strategists worry that widespread disenchantment among the party's bedrock conservatives could lead many to stay home in next year's midterm elections.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112683100347942461-og_rAjxnqCGLj55aWJA69mZDxow_20060915,00.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top

[moc]

1. They're just figuring this out now?

You mean we can't fund the bottomless pit known as the war in Iraq AND fund tax cuts for the wealthy AND take care of what needs to be done for the gulf coast AND fund every pork barrel project dear to their hearts?

Wow, looks like they've finally returned to the "reality-based" community.

Sorry if I'm not impressed.

:eyes:

[neuvocat]

9. They shouldn't have spent all that money on the war.

Now that there's an emergency, there's nothing left to get us out of this mess.

[grytpype]

18. Hell, the war is off the budget!

The war is being paid for with special emergency legislation, it's not even on the budget!

Bush does NOT intend to be around when it is time to pay the bill for his adminstration's "big ideas!"

[ColonelTom]

24. And this too will be off-budget

It'll be listed as special emergency expenditures, just like the Iraq occupation.

[serryjw]

25. My very liberal friend

didn't even know we had a 2nd war STILL going on in Afganistan. That is how much the media talks about it!

[bigluckyfeet]

55. Take Back the Tax Cuts for the Rich

That should balance the budget.

[DuaneBidoux]

86. It won't come close...sorry. (But I'm still for it plus a tax increase for

the parasitic classes).

[reprobate]

73. Oh, Bush will be easy to find then. In a prison cell at the Hague. I hope

[Up2Late]

84. So, when are the Congress going to pass some "Emergency Taxes?"

Then try to tell them that those "Emergency Taxes" are "off the Budget."

[raccoon]

74. Yep. And suppose there's another emergency?

Suppose another area of the country experiences a destructive flood, hurricane, earthquake, nuclear/chemical accident, terrorist act, etc?

[jwirr]

13. Oops! you misunderstood. They are not talking about

their pork barrel projects - they are talking about social programs. They want more laws like the one in Texas that ends a persons life if they use too much money for care. That is what a repub calls fiscal responsibility.

[ninkasi]

20. Ahh...the Republican

"culture of life"...until it involves spending money on keeping poor people alive. Yeah, I've got it. They can be fiscally responsible when it comes to brutality concerning the poor, but God help us if we suggest spending less on fighting wars. These people are seriously deranged, and pose the greatest threat our country has ever faced. Is this what Thomas Jefferson and James Madison had in mind?

[tabasco]

56. My sentiment exactly.

You're a traitor if you question the massive expenditures on Iraq or useless profiteering projects like Star Wars.

But when it comes to spending money to actually help the American People, suddenly the republicans "balk."

My only hope is that the corruption is becoming plain for all to see and that this ends with the neutering of the republican party.

[despairing optimist]

2. Valerie Plame is about to sprout wings

Angels we have heard on high, and the mountains in reply, echoing their joyous praise: Gloria in excelsis Deo! Deliver us from Bush, amen.

[AX10]

4. HERE, HERE, HERE!

:kick:

[ShockediSay]

3. & why should the poor and overextended donate when

the fat pork rats are getting a free ride off of our backs?

they took the wealth out of this country; time they put a chunk of it back in ... like bread upon the waters (for those inclined to scripture and moral values).

We used to be one nation. Now we are the harvesters and the many harvested. I don't feel like playing the sap for the fat pork rats anymore.

[ColonelTom]

26. * has a lot of nerve

& why should the poor and overextended donate when the fat pork rats are getting a free ride off of our backs?

Exactly. That took a lot of nerve on his part, but nerve is something * has never been short of.

[ShockediSay]

68. A belated wecome aboard Colonel

The more the merrier.

[VegasWolf]

5. They will scream when Bush proposes tax HIKES to cover the cost. nt

[ColonelTom]

22. "na ga da"

They will scream when Bush proposes tax HIKES to cover the cost.

Not gonna happen, my friend. Bush's opportunity to ask the American people for such a sacrifice was tonight, and he blew it yet again, just like after 9/11.

If Bush wanted to hit a home run tonight, he would have called for Congress to repeal the recent highway-spending bill and rework it without all the obscene pork. Of course, he didn't.

[VegasWolf]

57. Humm ....

We are running the second largest deficit in the history of this country, we have the ongoing debacle in Iraq, a labor secretary actively encouraging job outsourcing via tax and tariff breaks, and now this natural disaster. We can't just keep borrowing money from China to pay the light bills. I certainly would not rule out any tax hikes at this point.

[mzmolly]

66. It's the largest deficit is it not?

:shrug:

[NorthernSpy]

6. so they flush $100s of billions down that toilet called the Iraq War...

... and then balk at the cost of saving a part of our own country and hundreds of thousands of our own people?

Why do conservatives such as Coburn care so much more about the Middle East than they do about America? Is it the fact that the lands that make up Iraq are mentioned in the Bible, and North America isn't? Whatever the reason for it, their disloyalty is killing people, and this country just can't afford to tolerate that any longer.

[Barkley]

61. Write On NorthernSpy... and its OUR tax money not theirs.

The conservative ideology is smaller government. They fear that helping Americans will create unnecessary bureaucracies.

Well, the government safety net have been cut to shreds over the last 20 or so years and people have gotten poorer.

Pouring money into Iraq is a disaster but the fiscal conservatives don't balk at the inefficiencies and corruption that's part and parcel of our mis-adventure in the Middle East.

Those tax dollars belong to us not them. Americans want the maximum relief to the people impacted by Katrina.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

7. Note to conservatives: Prepare for more balking.

Sad, in a way. All he ever wanted to do was be king, and look at what a mess it's all turned into.

[leesa]

8. How come they don't any problem giving our money to Halliburton

in Iraq but don't like doing it here?

[Erika]

11. They own shares in Halliburton

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. It's a win win for our side

They just look bad when they oppose funding Katrina repairs. And it's hypocritical of them to support this spending.

[stepnw1f]

12. Republican Version of "Conservative"

Honesty is the foundation of Integrity. Democrats have much more integrity.

GOP=corporate socialism

[Skink]

14. As Friedman says will Americans stand by and watches Billions go to

Iraq and not to rebuid devastation in our own country.

[Erika]

15. Most U.S. communities are having infrastructure problems

But Iraq and the South gets bailed out. You made a good point.

[applegrove]

16. See - when it is spending on "others" it is bad. When spending on

Haliburton & Iraq - it is not really spending. Likely why they don't have to worry about the debt when they spent & tax cut & debted over the past 4 years.

[bluestateguy]

17. Bring all troops home from Iraq

There.

Probelm solved.

Next?

Geez, this isn't rocket science.

[slay]

19. Republicans are NOT fiscally conservative. They just hate helping poor pe

ople. :(

[applegrove]

21. Yeah - they "balk" now. When the billions are going to actual people.

Actual American people. As opposed to starving the government, corporate welfare, elite tax-cuts.

Thanks for reminding me of the prism through which you see the world.

[Kool Kitty]

27. Of course they're upset.

The money will be going to actual people-poor people. You know how much they hate that. Bill Maher was right-the rest of his term will be a Bush family nightmare-he's going to have to help poor people.

Fuck all those selfish bastards.

[applegrove]

33. Yep.

[applegrove]

36. I worry to about all the laws that are being repealed - will they be

"rolled over" into law?

[txaslftist]

49. Come one now. Don't be naive. Do you really think those billions...

...are going to poor people.

Sure. "poor Halliburton" "poor Bechtel" "Poor Bush cronies"

It's no fair. All the Halliburton execs are billionaires, and we're only multi-millionaires. George, you're not treating us fairly. Here comes Katrina, a perfect chance for you to spread the wealth a little to your loyal contributors, and you give it all the Veep's company again. No fair, George.

[amber dog democrat]

23. Let them squeak

Is it not true they have been in charge these past 5 years? Big of them to not vote not to extend the Chimp tax cuts. Its been one disaster after another ever since these loonies siezed power in 2000.

[ColonelTom]

28. A bankrupt federal government...

... is easy to drown in the bathtub.

[barb162]

29. China etal is waiting for the chance to watch the drowning or help it

along

[mazzarro]

44. So very true! (eom)

[Miss Chybil]

30. I'm sure their solution will be to eliminate Medicare, Medicaid,

food stamps, disability programs, school lunches, AFDC, AIDS research, global poverty relief and global medical aid. They will increase war spending. Build new bombs, planes and bombers for outerspace. Start a couple more wars, add a few more tax cuts, increase the loopholes which allow corporations to avoid paying US taxes and lower the minimum wage, again.

[barb162]

32. Getting out of Iraq, increasing taxes on the rich and corporations

will help trememndously to finance the reconstruction and keep domestic benefits.

[Miss Chybil]

42. But, don't you understand...?

That makes too much sense. Why would they do something like that?

[atommom]

48. Yes, that's what they should do ... withdraw their support and stay home

on election day. Had they been paying attention, they would have done that five years ago!

[barb162]

64. Well, you're right because they won't

At least I can't imagine they would ever raise taxes on the rich. It just won't happen.

[raccoon]

75. I'm afraid you're right, Miss Chybil. Their kind would just love

to dismantle the remaining shreds of the social safety net.

[barb162]

31. I watched T(F)ucker Carlson somewhat in a fit over this right

after the speech. It's true, with this deficit we have have going, some countries might balk at buying any more of our paper. AT which point we are sunk. WHat I did not hear was getting out of Iraq, the drain in the bathtub that is.

[Pirate Smile]

34. NYT: G.O.P. Split Over Big Plans for Storm Spending

WASHINGTON, Sept. 15 - The drive to pour tens of billions of federal dollars into rebuilding the hurricane-battered Gulf Coast is widening a fissure among Republicans over fiscal policy, with more of them expressing worry about unbridled spending.

On Thursday, even before President Bush promised that "federal funds will cover the great majority of the costs of repairing public infrastructure in the disaster zone," fiscal conservatives from the House and Senate joined budget watchdog groups in demanding that the administration be judicious in asking for taxpayer dollars.

One fiscal conservative, Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, said Thursday, "I don't believe that everything that should happen in Louisiana should be paid for by the rest of the country. I believe there are certain responsibilities that are due the people of Louisiana."

Senator Jim DeMint, Republican of South Carolina, called for restoring "sanity" to the federal recovery effort. Congress has approved $62 billion, mostly to cover costs already incurred, and the price tag is rising. The House and Senate approved tax relief Thursday at an estimated cost of more than $5 billion on top of $3.5 billion in housing vouchers approved by the Senate on Wednesday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/16/politics/16cong.html?hp&ex=1126929600&en=293958618168cb71&ei=5094&partner=homepage

They are bitching about $$$ yet no one mentions the Iraq money pit.

Here are a few ideas - get out of Iraq, repeal the tax cut for the very top and let the estate tax go back into effect. How much would that add up to?

[Broken_Hero]

35. Getting out of Iraq

Will free up a lot of $, but GWB is tied to that war, like, well, how white is on rice? bad analogy? for sure.

[txaslftist]

52. I think you meant, "like stink on shit".

[Corgigal]

41. Senator Jim DeMint, Republican of South Carolina

Yeah he whines now until our state gets hit by a Category 4 or 5 and all the rich that live on the beaches of South Carolina need the funding.

[Wapsie B]

37. They'd have real problems if this was an election year.

But chimp doesn't have to run for reselection. Plus people have short attention spans in politics.

[Oerdin]

38. The conservatives are right about something.

We do spend WAY to much. Much more then our nation can afford and $200 billion is equal to last year's budget deficit which was the highest ever recorded by any nation on Earth. This year's budget deficit, without Katrina costs, is expected to be around $200-$225 billion so an additional $200 would double the worst ever deficit to between $400-$425 billion dollars. That's nearly half a trillion dollars!

We can't afford that. We need to start cutting our massively bloated budget and reinstate those taxes on the rich. Last year we spent $100 billion paying farmers not to farm and another $350 billion on farm subsidies which are almost solely to blame for third world poverty. Cutting the farm subsidies BY THEMSELVES would eliminate the national deficit even with the cost of aid to NOLA. Next we need to really examine that $200 billion because Bush has a history of feeding his corporate friends with public money and you just know most of that $200 billion will be wasted on companies like Halliburton with nothing to show for it on the ground.

There really is a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse in the national budget which we can eliminate. The medicare drug benifet forces medicare to pay full MSRP for all drugs when the going market rate in normally 50% to 40% of the MSRP. That one little change would allow us to cover twice as many people with the same money or cover the same number for half as much. There are a lot of things like this and getting rid of the corporate give aways would allow us to rebuild New Orleans and balance the budget.

[BadGimp]

39. ROFLMAO Now they want accountability - Iraq Again Anyone?

"It's not about taking care of the folks that need us," Mr. Coburn said in an interview. "But I wouldn't vote for another penny until we get real about the hard choices of cutting some spending."

What is most amazing is the way in which the breeze by their own hypocricy.

Things got real bad after 9/11. But I have a suspicion they are going to get alot worse now.

[hadrons]

40. I really hope the Repuke voters in Louisiana remember Coburn's quote

One fiscal conservative, Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, said Thursday, "I don't believe that everything that should happen in Louisiana should be paid for by the rest of the country. I believe there are certain responsibilities that are due the people of Louisiana."

transition: tough titty

[tonekat]

43. Coburn = Pompous Ass

Typical self-righteous dumbass, he files a fraudulent Medicaid claim for sterilizing a woman without her consent, votes for huge defense spending, votes to eliminate any funding for the arts, not to mention the rest of his cuckoobananas philosophy.

Maybe the repukes finally have enough rope to hang themselves, I want to see them slowly turning in the breeze and hear the gallows creaking.

[Straight Shooter]

45. "A stitch in time saves nine."

Likely they wouldn't have their panties in a wad now, if they had invested the minimum necessary to mitigate the damage pre-Katrina. The funds which would have fortified the levees went to Iraq, per bush's wishes.

They really need to sit down and assess what the source of all their problems is. It's a 4-letter word, it begins with b and ends with u-s-h.

[MadHound]

46. I actually agree with Coburn on this one, we don't need to add to the debt

However, let us first start the spending cuts in two places, immediately repeal all of these tax cuts of the past twenty five years that benefit the rich. Second, get the US out of Iraq now, and stop spending all of the money for an illegal, immoral war of empire and oil.

What shouldn't be done is continue to run up the debt. Sad to say, I think that is exactly what is going to happen. Bushco is acting like a drunken sailor with a brand new credit card, charging everything in sight, only to let future generations pay it all back.

[sadiesworld]

58. Absolutely, increasing the debt only hastens the neo-con plan.

But let's start with piercing the BFEE veil and use their ill-gotten gains to rebuild NOLA.

[Roland99]

47. Watch that debt start soaring right after * took office:

http://www.uwsa.com/monthlydebtimage.html

[txaslftist]

50. He'll shut up and do as he's told when Bush comes to shove.

This is just his little protest before Bush gives it to him in the backside.

[Az_lefty]

51. If these asshats had done their damned job

and been responsible like they claim, they wouldn't be faced with this. Stupid bastards, it's their own fault. We need to yell this from the roof tops, "There is no one else to blame!!!"
:grr:

[symbolman]

53. So my tax dollars are to be spent on

Iraqi "welfare Queens"? They get new schools, roads, waterworks, cities, which are promptly blown up so that Halliburton can rebuild them?

Kidding, we broke them, we own them.. or rather Bush Co does, and now they OWN NO, almost literally.. this is a gold mine for them and they'll all be long gone with the bills left behind for us to pay..

It's their BUSINESS MODEL in case anyone hasn't been paying attention.. they go into a business, steal all the money, SINK IT and then walk away CLEAN, over and over..

Only this time they had to murder people to do it, and they will stop at nothing.. this reminds me of how they stole all the property of the Japanese Americans when they rounded them up..

Corp Speculators are drooling at the prospects.

Personally, and this is not fair to the folks in the south, but I think that if people choose to live in a place that can blow your house away every two years or so that the rest of us should not have to pay for that..

They should draw a line across the south where the most damage occurs and tell people, even insurance companies that if you want to live there you do so at YOUR OWN RISK.

If some guy decides that he wants to lay in the middle of the street and then have everyone pay for his constant parade of MRIs, casts, operations, and hospitalization, and then he goes right back out into the street to recline then he should have to bear his own costs.

Granted this hurricane was a Motherfucker, and Bush Co cheated all those folks by not funding proper rebuilding of the levees, but from here on out I believe we should rethink the rebuilding of the south.

Maybe waterproof bunkers all along the coast instead of trailors.

Remember, those are the states that scream about welfare queens, etc - but they money they get comes from RICHER states like California.

Like dealing with Limbaugh, I refuse to buy any products from advertisers on his show, and I don't think that we should reward poor states that live off the welfare of richer states and THEN vote for Bush to kill our troops and give fat checks to the rich and Haliburton..

Just my two cents, may sound heartless but we need to take a hard look at where this money goes, or where it should STAY.

[tinrobot]

54. Pulling out of Iraq will save tons of money

If you want to cut spending... that's where you have to start.

[Zorra]

59. Wanna save money? Just get the fuck out of Iraq right now.

Yeah, I know, that makes way too much sense for conservatives to be able to understand the concept.

[info being]

60. But money spent killing Iraqi's is well-spent?

[nookiemonster]

62. Emergencies happen. At random.

It's called foresight, you Repuke bastards.

[GayCanuck]

63. They should be balking at the Iraq money

not the money to help innocent people in the south.

[rodeodance]

71. some are loud critics of the $ going to Iraqi war also.

[genieroze]

65. By the time HELLiburton gets through it will cost 200 trillion.

[roguevalley]

67. Ok, fuck wits. Cut the entire fed education and medical budget. that

should just about do it.

[rodeodance]

69. US conservatives round on Bush over Katrina aid pledges

http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,16441,1572300,00.html
US conservatives round on Bush over Katrina aid pledges

· 'Shocking expansion of federal role' dismays right
· Doubts over wisdom of rebuilding New Orleans

Julian Borger in Washington
Saturday September 17, 2005
The Guardian



.......The promise was made in a dramatic prime-time address to the nation from a floodlit Jackson Square in the heart of New Orleans, where President Bush attempted to rebuild his credibility as a strong leader. In doing so, he apologised once more for the bungled, delayed response of the federal government........


Mr Bush presented the solution in terms of an array of far-reaching government programmes. He proposed the creation of a "Gulf opportunity zone" along the Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama coast, in which rebuilding would be encouraged by tax incentives and subsidies. Secondly, worker recovery accounts would be set up giving adult evacuees $5,000 (£3,500) each to help them find work. He also proposed an "urban homesteading act" providing federal land for displaced people to build new homes.

Senior members of the president's own party had voiced doubts over the wisdom of rebuilding a city like New Orleans, which is mostly below sea-level, but Mr Bush shrugged off those concerns, declaring: "This great city will rise again."


......Some Republicans are voicing their unease. Senator Tom Coburn declared: "I don't believe that everything that should happen in Louisiana should be paid for by the rest of the country.".....

[marmar]

70. "If those people want to get on their feet again let them work for it...

... on my plantation!"

The Republican Party is in moral bankruptcy.

[ingac70]

77. Money for the rest of the planet is OK...

But for our own people and rebuilding our own cities, it's a problem.

Republicans are sick.

One of the Senators from Alabama, an state hit by Katrina, was going on about paying as we go, or paying back the money ASAP.

Yet the rest of the planet can have all the money they want!

[classysassy]

72. The republicans(the pharisees of our generation)

those boys and girls(men and women,they are not)will lead this nation down the hill of destruction,if we don't get rid of them all.

[Toots]

76. "broke Democrats' 40-year control of Congress"

Unless the Senate is not considered a part of Congress this is another right wing LIE. During Reagans term the Senate was controlled by Republicans.

[Up2Late]

78. US conservatives round on Bush over Katrina aid pledges (The Guardian)

(I bet we'll hear a bunch of RW Whining in the Sunday Morning "news" shows)

US conservatives round on Bush over Katrina aid pledges

· 'Shocking expansion of federal role' dismays right
· Doubts over wisdom of rebuilding New Orleans

Julian Borger in Washington
Saturday September 17, 2005
The Guardian

US president George Bush's promise to rebuild New Orleans and the Gulf coast "higher and better" has triggered a wave of anxiety among conservatives in his own party, who are shocked at the expansion of the federal role in disaster relief.

Yesterday Mr Bush led the country in a day of prayer for the victims of Hurricane Katrina in Washington's national cathedral, declaring: "The destruction of this hurricane was beyond any human power to control, but the restoration of broken communities and disrupted lives now rests in our hands." But his ambitious pledge the night before to lead "one of the largest reconstruction efforts the world has ever seen" has dismayed many of his own followers.

The promise was made in a dramatic prime-time address to the nation from a floodlit Jackson Square in the heart of New Orleans, where President Bush attempted to rebuild his credibility as a strong leader. In doing so, he apologised once more for the bungled, delayed response of the federal government.

(clip)

Mr Bush presented the solution in terms of an array of far-reaching government programmes. He proposed the creation of a "Gulf opportunity zone" along the Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama coast, in which rebuilding would be encouraged by tax incentives and subsidies. Secondly, worker recovery accounts would be set up giving adult evacuees $5,000 (£3,500) each to help them find work. He also proposed an "urban homesteading act" providing federal land for displaced people to build new homes.

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,16441,1572300,00.html?gusrc=rss>
(more at link above)

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. IF true conservs bothered reading the PNAC

plan it woudl make lots of sense... and then they cuold join us... but hey we knew bush was not a conservative, maybe now they will get it

[Ignacio Upton]

80. The Pat Buchanan types (ie. Paleo Cons) will never

come on our side because of social issues. They will stay with the Neo-Cons as long as they promise to overturn Roe v. Wade and stop gay marriage.

[Erika]

81. W also acknowledged racial inequality and poverty

The conservatives are gnashing their teeth.

[bluestateguy]

82. Bush is not a real fiscal conservative

I would describe his father as a fiscal moderate---while he had deficits too, at least a little common sense prevailed in the end, and he dropped that foolish "read my lips" silliness.

Bill Clinton was the real fiscal conservative.

[ShockediSay]

83. Guess who's going to pocket most of the pork for NOLA "reconstruction"

ANS: Bush's campaign comtributors.

The system is so corrupt it stinks AND it's obvious to the rest of the world what the business of cowboy capitalism is all about.

[nolabels]

85. "widespread disenchantment among the party's bedrock conservatives"

People getting all bothered enough to go out and vote. That's just silly Like wasn't that why they made that new kind of voting machine anyway?


http://homepage.mac.com/rcareaga/diebold/adworks.htm