E-mail suggests government seeking to blame groups (for flood of NO)

[sabra]

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050916/NEWS0110/509160369/1260

E-mail suggests government seeking to blame groups

Federal officials appear to be seeking proof to blame the flood of New Orleans on environmental groups, documents show.

The Clarion-Ledger has obtained a copy of an internal e-mail the U.S. Department of Justice sent out this week to various U.S. attorneys' offices: "Has your district defended any cases on behalf of the (U.S.) Army Corps of Engineers against claims brought by environmental groups seeking to block or otherwise impede the Corps work on the levees protecting New Orleans? If so, please describe the case and the outcome of the litigation."

Cynthia Magnuson, a spokeswoman for the Justice Department, said Thursday she couldn't comment "because it's an internal e-mail."

Shown a copy of the e-mail, David Bookbinder, senior attorney for Sierra Club, remarked, "Why are they (Bush administration officials) trying to smear us like this?"

[Carolab]

1. Yeah, I saw this on Tucker Carlson's show last night.

Some RW clown from a group called American Competitive Enterprise Institute or something like that was saying that the environmental groups hamstrung the Army Corps of Engineers because of lawsuits they brought. Tucker made a comment about hating the Sierra Club and environmentalists in general but DID mention that he had thought the wetlands were needed to prevent flooding...which of course the RW guy skirted right around and said that Sierra was ONLY suing to protect bears and birds.

On edit: I wrote to Tucker immediately afterward and suggested to him he get someone from the Sierra Club on as well as a rep from the ACOE to speak to this, instead of some asshat who doesn't know anything about it.

[ixion]

2. so environmental groups were responsible for defunding the levee projects?

:wtf: typical neocon logic. :crazy:

[Viking12]

14. Yup..here are a few examples of their smear campaign

Strawmen, red herrings, the usual propoganda techniques. Horowitz's rag goes so far as to call it "Green Genocide".

1) New Orleans: A Green Genocide: With all that has happened in the state, it’s understandable that the Louisiana chapter of the Sierra Club may not have updated its website. But when its members get around to it, they may want to change the wording of one item in particular. The site brags that the group is “working to keep the Atchafalaya Basin,” which adjoins the Mississippi River not far from New Orleans, “wet and wild

These words may seem especially inappropriate after the breaking of the levee that caused the tragic events in New Orleans last week. But “wet and wild” has a larger significance in light of those events, and so does the group using the phrase. The national Sierra Club was one of several environmental groups who sued the Army Corps of Engineers to stop a 1996 plan to raise and fortify Mississippi River levees.

The Army Corps was planning to upgrade 303 miles of levees along the river in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Arkansas. This was needed, a Corps spokesman told the Baton Rouge, La., newspaper The Advocate, because “a failure could wreak catastrophic consequences on Louisiana and Mississippi which the states would be decades in overcoming, if they overcame them at all.”

But a suit filed by environmental groups at the U.S. District Court in New Orleans claimed the Corps had not looked at “the impact on bottomland hardwood wetlands.” The lawsuit stated, “Bottomland hardwood forests must be protected and restored if the Louisiana black bear is to survive as a species, and if we are to ensure continued support for source population of all birds breeding in the lower Mississippi River valley.” In addition to the Sierra Club, other parties to the suit were the group American Rivers, the Mississippi River Basin Alliance, and the Louisiana, Arkansas and Mississippi Wildlife Federations.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/berlau200509080824.asp

2) As radical environmentalists continue to blame the ferocity of Hurricane Katrina’s devastation on President Bush’s ecological policies, a mainstream Louisiana media outlet inadvertently disclosed a shocking fact: Environmentalist activists were responsible for spiking a plan that may have saved New Orleans. Decades ago, the Green Left – pursuing its agenda of valuing wetlands and topographical “diversity” over human life – sued to prevent the Army Corps of Engineers from building floodgates that would have prevented significant flooding that resulted from Hurricane Katrina.

In the 1970s, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ Lake Pontchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Barrier Project planned to build fortifications at two strategic locations, which would keep massive storms on the Gulf of Mexico from causing Lake Pontchartrain to flood the city. An article in the May 28, 2005, New Orleans Times-Picayune stated, “Under the original plan, floodgate-type structures would have been built at the Rigolets and Chef Menteur passes to block storm surges from moving from the Gulf into Lake Pontchartrain.”

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19418

[nashville_brook]

15. these fetid pieces of shite -- vote this up ya'll, i did

god this pisses me off no end. the greens are trying to protect wetlands to this kind of shit won't happen. i'm so damn tired of the world being upsidedown.

[Demoiselle]

21. Not defunding....blowing up!

Looks like they might be scrambling to prove/imply some eco-terror bushit. My goodness!!! Trouble is, if you float the idea (no pun intended), some idiots will buy it.

[bemildred]

3. Butt-covering? From government policy stooges?

Who could have predicted this?

[anotherdrew]

4. these people (and I use the term with reservations) are beneath contempt

what we need to do is out do them at business, we've got to pool our capital and run these twits out of business. Then we can show them how it's done correctly.

As it stands, there is a major problem in this country, in as much as the vast majority of "business" in this nation is run exclusively by thoroughly indoctrinated right-wing loonies. Access to capital is restricted if you're not "one of the boys".

[txaslftist]

5. This will be congress' marching song.

When the one-party investigating committee (the CBA, or Cover Bush's Ass committee) issues it's final report.

[Tempest]

6. Funny how they're not looking at development on wetlands

The development of the coastal wetlands is more to blame than any blocking of levee building.

[AnnInLa]

7. E-mail suggests government seeking to blame groups (environmental groups)

E-mail suggests government seeking to blame groups

By Jerry Mitchell
[e-mail]




E-mail sent to various U.S. Attorney's offices:

SUBJECT: Have you had any cases involving the levees in New Orleans?

QUESTION: Has your district defended any cases on behalf of the Army Corps of Engineers against claims brought by environmental groups seeking to block or otherwise impede the Corps' work on the levees protecting New Orleans? If so, please describe the case and the outcome of the litigation.

District: __________
Contact: _________
Telephone: ________

Federal officials appear to be seeking proof to blame the flood of New Orleans on environmental groups, documents show.

The Clarion-Ledger has obtained a copy of an internal e-mail the U.S. Department of Justice sent out this week to various U.S. attorneys' offices: "Has your district defended any cases on behalf of the (U.S.) Army Corps of Engineers against claims brought by environmental groups seeking to block or otherwise impede the Corps work on the levees protecting New Orleans? If so, please describe the case and the outcome of the litigation."

Cynthia Magnuson, a spokeswoman for the Justice Department, said Thursday she couldn't comment "because it's an internal e-mail."

Shown a copy of the e-mail, David Bookbinder, senior attorney for Sierra Club, remarked, "Why are they (Bush administration officials) trying to smear us like this?"
snip
Whoever is behind the e-mail may have spotted the Sept. 8 issue of National Review Online that chastised the Sierra Club and other environmental groups for suing to halt the corps' 1996 plan to raise and fortify 303 miles of Mississippi River levees in Louisiana, Mississippi and Arkansas.

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050916/NEWS0110/509160369/1260
(Mississippi newspaper)

[DBoon]

8. recommended

the word needs to get out

[alarimer]

9. Shoring up the levees

will only make the destruction worse by increasing the erosion of wetlands that serve as a buffer against the storm surge. Not to metion eliminating wetlands that serve as nursery areas for shrimp and fishing, thus killing the livelihoods of thousands who depend on it. What they really need is to raise NO above sea level somehow. I am not an engineer but I imagine it is a hell of a lot easier to build levees than to raise a city.

[happyslug]

18. Can't raise New Orleans (Or least the part that flooded).

Except for the French Quarter (Which has ALWAYS been above Sea level) New Orleans is built on sediment from the Mississippi River. Any such sediment compact over time and thus "sinks". Thus New Orleans will continue to sink no matter WHAT you put on top of it (And what you put on top may make it sink faster). Mark Twain wrote about Sinking New Orleans in the late 1800s, but with the elimination of the wet lands along the Mississippi (Starting in the 1930s), the River started to flow faster and Faster, carrying less and less Sediment (and what sediment it did carry did NOT go to the drained parts of New Orleans).

Thus New Orleans was marginal in the late 1800s and became even more marginal in the 1900s. The Army Corps of Engineers kept building up the Levees, but the town kept sinking (Furthermore the whole problem can be blamed on Colonel Shreve and Shreveport fame, he was the one who freed up the Red River from its ice age log jam thus was the first major change in the Mississippi River as it flows past New Orleans).

So what is the solution to the problem? There are several here are just some:

1. Abandon New Orleans except for the French Quarter (and any other spot above Sea level). You could keep Marti Gras, but it will be the shadow of itself without the whole city behind it, but solves the problem of the sinking city permanently.

2. Make the Sections underwater something like Venice, i.e. Connected by Canals leaving the individual home or building owners paying to lift the building as it sinks into the Ground.

3. Ignore the whole problem, rebuild New Orleans as it was and hope we do not have another Category Five Hurricane hit New Orleans whenever the levees sink into the sediment and had not be built up again, nor before the next Hurricane hits.

I lean to abandonment of any part below sea level (Thus preserving the French Quarter) and moving the rest of the population to Baton Rouge. It is the best LONG TERM solution to the problem of New Orleans.

[alarimer]

19. I guess they will likely ignore the problem

And hope there won't be a Cat 5 storm again (or with global warming maybe a Cat 6 or higher!!!!)

I am of mixed feelings about this. On the one hand it was foolish for humans to try and build a city that is mostly below sea level. On the other hand, there is a long history there of a culture that is unique in the US and putting it somewhere else would be a shame.

It is long past time for us to have a national discussion about excessive development in vulnerable areas. Places that border the Mississippi for example- they have moved entire towns following the last bad floods. But those were small towns. Places like Biloxi and Gulfport as well- they should not be allowed to rebuild structures right on the beach like that. They should be at least half a mile inland (or perhaps more). Leave the beaches bare of development as a buffer. The same is true for barrier islands. Leave them to the birds and day-use only.

[happyslug]

20. Yes, no one should live with one Kilometer of the shore.

One Kilometer is about .6 miles so a little further than your 1/2 mile suggestion. Now I did not say the area should be left undeveloped, but for day use only (which includes recreation and ocean shipments).

As to New Orleans, I like the Canal plan, each house would be on its own and as each sinks you could build new stories on top of the old. The best plan is still to abandon New Orleans (Except for the French Quarter and other high areas such as the Super-dome) and start at a safer location. Yes, you will lose some history, some culture but the US has always been a country about change and if the Change is needed lets NOT fight it but fight for it.

[Angry Girl]

10. rec'd and kicked

Nightweed's Hurricane Katrina Aid Organizations

[Trillo]

13. Yeah? You and DBoon both?

That's "2". Why does rec'd ticker say "0" right now?

Has Diebold inflitrated DU?

[Angry Girl]

17. Hmm, It said 1 before I rec'd it... Weird.

[Megahurtz]

11. Sure, they're desperately looking for someone to blame

for THEIR OWN fuckups.

After all, that's the Republican way!!!:puke:

[The White Tree]

12. If memory serves correctly

The head of the Army Core already stated that there were no plans for levees that could withstand this hurricane that would have made a difference. That any plan would have needed to have been initiated 20 years ago.

That should be all the justice department needs to halt any investigation it would begin into blaming environmental groups.

Talk about a Red Herring.

Actually, one could make the claim that environmental groups have been trying to save New Orleans from this type of catastrophy for years. They have been the advocates for doing something about global warming which evidence suggests may be the cause of the increase in intensity of storms.

But the Bush's department of justice would have to be interested in looking into evidence to make that connection, as opposed to serving the needs of their political bosses which this clearly seems to be about.

[snot]

16. Why from JUSTICE? And so long as they're INVESTIGATING ANYWAY . . .

why not make it official and investigate EVERYONE.

[Barrett808]

22. Ah, National Review. Say no more. n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

23. Three credible PhD's said global warming had no effect

1. Dr. Lee Raymond, PhD (Chemical Engineering) - CEO of ExxonMobil
2. Dr. David O'Reilly PhD (Chemical Engineering) - CEO of texaco Chevron
3. Dr. Ray Irani PhD (Chemical Engineering) - CEO of Occidental Petroleum

After all "global warming is only a theory" (like evolution) and any asserted link between hurricane intensity and global warming is also "only a theory" (like evolution).

[truthpusher]

24. Justice Dept looks at lawsuits, levees (to blame environmental groups)

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/12666901.htm

Justice Dept. looks at lawsuits, levees
------------------
MARK SHERMAN
Associated Press
------------------
WASHINGTON - The Justice Department is seeking information about whether lawsuits by environmental groups hindered efforts to improve New Orleans levees, an effort the Sierra Club and Democratic lawmakers say is aimed at shifting blame for the massive flooding.

The request to federal prosecutors, sent in an e-mail earlier this week, followed harsh criticism of the Bush administration for its initial response to Hurricane Katrina and the breach in New Orleans' levees that sent floodwaters from Lake Pontchartrain pouring into the city.

"Has your district defended any cases on behalf of the Army Corps of Engineers against claims brought by environmental groups seeking to block or otherwise impede the Corps work on the levees protecting New Orleans? If so, please describe the case and the outcome of the litigation," said the communication, which was read to The Associated Press on Friday by Justice Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse.

David Bookbinder, Sierra Club senior attorney, said the administration "is more interested in building a case to deflect blame than actually underscore what went wrong before, during and after the crisis."

(snip)

It cited two groups, American Rivers and the Sierra Club, for their federal suit in 1996 to block an upgrade of 303 miles of levees in Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi. Most of those levees are on the Mississippi River and did not fail during Katrina.

complete story: http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/12666901.htm

[merwin]

25. Setting precident. That means we can sue the bush admin for hindering

the construction work on the levees via 90% budget cuts

[Sgent]

26. NO NO NO

Look, I hate this admin as much as the rest; however, you can not sue a government official in its own courts for acts of policy by its designated authorities.

You can't sue congress, you cant sue Bush, and you can't sue the Army Corp. You also can't sue state/city officials for the same reason.

There are exceptions to this:

* State/Local officials can be sued for violation of federal law in federal court(civil rights law esp).

* In many cases, a Tort Claims Act exists -- at least federally and in MS -- which allow you to sue the government. You can sue for personal tort damages (think malpractice) for actions performed directly by a state employee which have caused you an economic loss. These are usually worded so that policy decisions are not included, but rather things like medical malpractice from state physicians, etc. Even this is often limited.

These are it. To be able to sue, either the governmental unit must pass a law allowing you to do so, or a higher authority must intervene.

Edit: should mention that you often can sue to force a government agency to follow its own laws; however, you can't ask for monetary damages in this type of suit.

[shance]

27. This is a gold mine of an opportunity to address the HAARP Project.***

I would love to see them address that oh so interesting tax payer, weather manipulating project in Alaska.

As Bush says so eloquently, BRING IT ON************