Doctor says FEMA ordered him to stop treating hurricane victims

[Lori Price CLG]

Doctor says FEMA ordered him to stop treating hurricane victims

In the midst of administering chest compressions to a dying woman several days after Hurricane Katrina struck, Dr. Mark N. Perlmutter was ordered to stop by a federal official because he wasn't registered with the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

"I begged him to let me continue," said Perlmutter, who left his home and practice as an orthopedic surgeon in Pennsylvania to come to Louisiana and volunteer to care for hurricane victims. "People were dying, and I was the only doctor on the tarmac (at the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport) where scores of nonresponsive patients lay on stretchers. Two patients died in front of me.

<snip>

Lori Price
http://www.legitgov.org/index.html#breaking_news

[electropop]

1. Genocide.

:grr:

[jsamuel]

4. is there any other explination?

[Lori Price CLG]

15. Nope. The levee breach aftermath was Bush killing as many poor...

people as possible, so Halliburton and Blackwater USA can get in there and 'rebuild' the area for the wealthy, and turn the city Red.

Lori Price

[NYC]

68. No.

No other explanation.

[Imagevision]

87. Where's Ted Koppel when you need him????....

[Lori Price CLG]

6. Yes, and I'm really sick and tired of Freepers/lurkers not admitting that

fact.

Lori Price

[Vanje]

11. Yes.

Genocide

[Team44Car]

12. All the evidence seems to be pointing that way

[hardrainfallin]

27. That's not GENOCIDE, it's just plain MURDER

and I really wish people would QUIT throwing around the term "genocide" recklessly.

Imo (and I have written and published a thing or two on "genocide"), a case COULD actually be made for Genocide against the US under the terms of the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, but throwing the term around loosely doesn't help make the case

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html

Article 2 of the Convention (to whichthe US is a party)

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:


* (a) Killing members of the group;
* (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
* (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
* (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
* (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[Old Mouse]

35. true n/t

[electropop]

54. (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to

"(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

(1) Bush deliberately underfunded levee repairs, despite years of very public warnings, including from FEMA.
(2) The primary goal of the Bush adminsitration has been to encourage the burning of as much fossil fuel as possible, thus heating the sea and fueling monster hurricanes. Oh yeah, and making a big profit on his oil.
(2) FEMA failed to show up for days.
(3) When they did, their main task was to actively block aid and rescuers from entering, and victims from leaving.

In what sense do these actions not fulfill the above clause of the Convention?

[hardrainfallin]

56. Exactly what I'm saying, and have been saying even BEFORE

FEMA and the NOLA situation

And it's why it pisses me off when people play "loose" with the term genocide.

Genocide is a LEGAL concept--and pretty clearly defined.

I will NEVER understand why those few international attempts there have been (for example, the now abandoned attempt to go after Rummy for war crimes) have NOT been looking at UN CONVENTION ON THE PREVENTION AND PUNISHMENT OF THE CRIME OF GENOCIDE (well, actually, I do, because looking carefully at that document it becomes very apparent that the US has been engaged in committing genocide against AMerican Indians since 1492 and still hasn't stopped to this day) but....let's "forget" about that for a moment.

The FEMA situation really looks to me like a FLAGRANT case of genocide.

But, geez, what do I know?

[Joe Chi Minh]

60. Lynching's so labour-intensive, you know,

even today, by execution.

[hardrainfallin]

63. huh?

[Joe Chi Minh]

92. A lot less time and labour expended.

In fact, simple inertia.

[Talismom]

2. Oh I'm so furious! I want these Nazi bastards fried! n/t

[bluestateguy]

3. I hope Michael Brown is enjoying that margarita now

Did Blanco and Nagin do some things wrong? Sure, I have no problem admitting that.

But Brown and his FEMA thugs have been criminally negligent.

[Beaver Tail]

5. WTFH?

Sense when did you need FEMAs permission to perform CPR? If it is me I would have told them to fuck off and forced them to drag me off of her.

[Bzzzz]

7. Knowing this administration...

they would have told the Natl. Guards to shoot the doctor for being uncooperative.

[Justice]

64. Right, what about the Good Samaritian Doctrine?

I thought that insulated people from liability.

What about ordinary common sense?

Human Decency?

[babylonsister]

8. I'd like to see this doctor interviewed FAR AND WIDE, on

every radio and TV show there is. :grr:

[TacticalPeek]

23. I'd like to see these FEMA assholes interviewed from their jail cells!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Pirate Smile]

44. Has anyone ever heard an explanation for FEMA cutting emergency phone

lines(from the MTP interview)?

This crap is so insane, it is unbelievable.

[Kurovski]

9. BushCo must go. George Bush must be removed.

He and the Republicans have done all they can to destroy the governments ability to respond.

Their insane, INSANE hatred of we the people by way of our government has cost untold death and suffering.

The response by Bush and the Republicans was political from the word go. It was in keeping with the decades-long attempts to dismantle our government and turn operations over to mercenaries and for-profit corporations who have very little to no accountability to the American people.

George Bush and his administration must take responsibility and step down.

Recommended

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. amazing we care for liability in the midst of a disaster

but then we try to play CYA with folks who did the best they could

[Gregorian]

13. Now I think I get it. It's starting to make sense.

They are now making it look like EVERYBODY screwed up. See, it's not Bush's administration's fault since not one thing went right. And we don't know where to begin to found out where it went wrong.

These guys are the ultimate fuckups. They've destroyed absolutely everything they came into contact with, except for oil prices, and Halliburton.

If I were on a jury, I know what "beyond a reasonable doubt" would mean to me. These people cannot possibly be innocent with respect to most of what has gone wrong on their watch.

[Occulus]

81. The scariest part is... NOLA wasn't a fuckup for them.

IF we are to accept that their lack of response to this disaster is in fact deliberate, we must logically conclude that they are not at al fucking things up, but are actually following their plan.

In other words, fuckups for us are not fuckups for them. It's their goal. They want to take the money- all of it, as much as they can- and run.

[PinkyisBlue]

113. Deliberate

This is what is most scary about this administration. Their plan to pillage, loot and commandeer our country is right on target. Their actions are deliberate.

Economically, they still have a few loose ends to tie up, like privatizing Social Security, repealing the estate tax, cutting more programs and services to the poor, etc., but all in all, they are congratulating themselves on a job well done. I think they want to take the money, but I don't think they will run. Where would they go? Wouldn't it be ironic if our govt. ended up like Saddam Hussein's previous dictatorship, with most of the power and wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, and the masses kept in line by armed thugs?

Soon, they will control or own the majority of the wealth and, combined with military power, they will be able to do whatever they want. However, the money and power grab seems to be occurring in small increments so as not to alarm too many people. It's not like we're going to wake up one day and say "hey, there are soldiers with guns outside my house, I live in a dictatorship". But it's happening all the same. And they're learning from their mistakes. There will be no media, or only "approved by FEMA" journalists present at the next disaster.

[orleans]

82. lucky the shithead pResident has claimed responsibility. n/t

[fooj]

14. IMO, Our Federal Government purposefully created chaos and fear

in NO! This just is another instance that proves it. They should be brought up on charges! WTF?

Peace.

[rainbow4321]

26. FEMA obstructed more emergency /medical services:

Actually, since chimp is accepting full responsibility for everything that went "wrong"...HE obstructed the care:



http://www.nursingspectrum.com/katrina/ATinyCity_VG.cfm

Ochsner maintained nearly every service, including emergency care, Davis says. “A driver abandoned a metro bus full of paraplegics, but they were found by a volunteer and driven here,” she says. “It’s just pitiful here. We sent a truck of food, water, and medical attention,” so people on the streets wouldn’t be abandoned.

Despite scrupulous planning, Ochsner encountered obstacles.

“We had no help from FEMA,” she says. Even worse, “they commandeered our air space so we couldn’t use our helicopters.” They appropriated ambulances and confiscated Ochsner’s incoming trucks loaded with supplies and equipment, says Davis. (As of press time, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials were unavailable to reply to the criticism.)


http://www.nursingspectrum.com/katrina/Tarmac_VG.cfm

Patient care wasn’t the crew’s biggest problem. “There was such chaos, the stories changed from one minute to the next,” she says. At the airport, “there were 20 or more Army helicopters but no patients, because they had heard people were shooting at helicopters. … They were figuring out what to do.”

Inside, Roberts says, “the head of our ED had three teams set up three mini-EDs and a command center for triage. They brought tons and tons of medical supplies, pumps, water, meds, everything. The military was going to load 40 patients in one huge cargo plane, but they scrapped the plan to use individual helicopters when it was safe to fly.”

After waiting several hours, the teams learned they would be transferred. An hour later they were told to return home to Houston because nobody knew where to send them.

The next day, “three teams waited 12 hours, but none of them went out. Six nurses helped in the ICU, waiting all day for the call, but they never got it.”


-----------------

Main website:

http://www.nursingspectrum.com/katrina/CourageM.cfm

[Dora]

16. The National Response Plan allows for civilian volunteers

and even encourages it.

How anyone can read stories such as this one and see something other than intentional negligence is beyond me.

[Atman]

21. Most states have "good samaritan" laws, too

No one can be held liable for honestly trying to save a person in such emergency circumstances. Everyone with any sort of emergency/health care training knows this.

Oh, wait...that explains it. Never mind.

[One_Life_To_Give]

24. May mean "Organized Volunteers"

There are probably two or more categories of volunteers and groups of things they are allowed to do. Such as the Search and Rescue Teams that look for victims in the rubble of storms, earthquakes, etc.
They maintain themselves in a state of readiness and training for responding to this type of emergency. And would b given far more latitude than Joe/Jane Anybody who just shows up. Eventhough they may have a usefull skill. Their absence in training for emergency management concepts, proceedures and risks makes them a liability.

[AlGore-08.com]

70. Gore's flights to NOLA suggest FEMA wasn't making that distinction

between trained and untrained medical volunteers. When Gore flew down to NOLA to rescue hospital patients stranded in Charity, he had two doctors on board - - one was a retired Air Force Colonel who ran the military hospital in Baghdad, and had trained many of the military doctors on the scene at NOLA. Greg Simon posted the story about how the flights were organized, documenting how FEMA, the military, and other federal agencies refused their help. At one point, they even offered to give the planes, supplies and crews to the government, so that somebody could use the resources to get the patients out of Charity. FEMA refused to accept them.

Simon says that he never told any of them that Gore was involved, because nobody ever asked him who was involved in the flights. IMNSHO, it seems extremely unlikely that FEMA was making a distinction between trained and untrained volunteers if they weren't even asking "who is volunteering" (and the obvious next question "what medical training have they had").

Simon's description of the airlift here:

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/9/7/164747/4155

[Sabriel]

17. How can anyone order a citizen to stop CPR?

I don't care if it was a doctor or a lifeguard or my kid's teacher! By what authority can FEMA stop someone from administering a life-saving technique?

This disturbs me, to say the least.

[knitter4democracy]

52. Exactly!

I can just imagine what my hubby would say to that jerk if he tried to stop him in the middle of a code. It sure wouldn't be, "Oh, okay, I'll stop now." Grrrr . . .

[lavenderdiva]

109. I thought this exact same thing!

I wouldn't even take the time to tell them to STFU, and keep on doing chest compressions! If this doctor was an ordinary citizen, how can a FEMA person 'order' him to stop? And then, why would you even listen to them if they did tell him to stop?

[Atman]

18. BushCo trademark: Take names. Register.

They want to track everyone who has anything to do with them in any way. From loyalty oathes at his fake rallies, to this shit...it is the paranoid bunch of idiots I've ever seen.

Of course, they have reason to believe everyone is out to get them. Everyone IS!

[tkmorris]

19. This needs verification

I would be reluctant to use this without ascertaining that it's true. I think we all know it COULD be true, but can anyone verify that it is?

[Horse with no Name]

31. The Doc is legit

http://licensepa.state.pa.us/piresults.asp?sid=418079081&search=true&record=0

[Lugnut]

32. He absolutely is legit

He is from the Northeastern PA area and my sister is a patient of his. The Hazleton Standard-Speaker reported at the time that Dr. Perlmutter was heading to the Gulf to provide medical care. He enjoys an excellent reputation in this area. If he said it it's true.

on edit: clarification

[Lori Price CLG]

36. Right, I notice any time a thread gets to the heart of the Bush regime,

and the Reichwing has no response, demands for verification and 'double checking sources' start pouring in. :shrug:

Lori Price

[Horse with no Name]

37. My concerns are Rovian plant stories

This is criminal.
Gov. Blanco issued her administrative order so that this wouldn't happen.
It was cc:'d to Homeland Security.
Someone needs to be arrested for this.
That is the only reason I wanted verification.
I'm not a freeper.

[Lori Price CLG]

39. I never said you were. I was making a general comment, and want to add

that just because an article is outrageous in content, it does not mean Rove et. al., planted the story. The Bush MIS-MINISTRATION is OUTRAGEOUS, in and of itself.
After two stolen elections, the 9/11 attacks, and the illegal invasion of Iraq, I would not put *anything* past them.

Lori Price

[tkmorris]

66. And asking for verification

Does NOT mean you are associated with the "Reich wing". I am the one who asked for it and I gotta tell you I found your comments extremely offensive. I realize you mean well, and I understand your reaction but don't toss around accusations like that lightly. There is no greater insult to me than saying I might be somehow enabling a Repub agenda. I just want the facts to be certain before I start shooting my mouth off about something. My credibility is important to me; I can't make claims unless I know what I am talking about.

[BiggJawn]

74. Gee...That sounds like FEMA-Speak.

"I just want the facts to be certain before I start shooting my mouth off about something. My credibility is important to me; I can't make claims unless I know what I am talking about."

Sounds SO akin to:

"You don't get a BAND-AID until all 20 of those forms are filled out IN TRIPLICATE."

And if you find this "offensive", Tough Titty. Deal.

[tkmorris]

85. Bullshit

When things like this happen I MAKE NOISE. I call my congressman, I write the paper, I tell my friends, I do anything I can think of. Making sure you have your facts straight is a big part of that. Hammer a false story even one time and they stop listening to you.

Comparing me to FEMA for that is just plain kneejerk ignorant. You're making assumptions about my motives that are so far from reality it's absurd. Do you not fact check anything at all?

[TankLV]

98. I don't believe the storys. Oh, you have photos - how do you know they're

real!

They're real? well, we shouldn't expose them - it'll only make the situation worse.

Yeah - we've heard it all before.

[NorthernSpy]

50. caution is always warranted, no doubt

What I like about this story is that it offers details that can be checked; the person offering this account is identified; the account concerns matters that fall within the account-giver's claimed area of professional expertise; and the account-giver has forthrightly notified the authorities of his concerns.

Those things distinguish this story from mere rumor, for what it's worth...

[One_Life_To_Give]

45. When one point is questioned

the rest is...

I think many who spent any time around emergency medicine have a problem with the story. It implies that CPR was stopped without the patient having been declared dead first. I am inclined to believe that certain details were omitted to give a greater impact to this story. But that is based only on my impression that a Dr. would not stop giving life saving treatments and let his patient die without taking a bullet first. Not on my belief of whether or not Rove might have tried to put one in him.

edit spelling

[tkmorris]

65. Don't you DARE question my bona fides

I have seen a number of stories repeated here claiming all kinds of awful things. Some, most even, are absolutely true, but many are not. I have been burned more than once getting all fired up about some story that turned out to be exxagerated, biased, or just plain not true.

If this story is true I will be spreading this news and hammering the media etc about it. I cannot do that unless I am certain I have all the facts straight.

You accuse me of being or working with the "Reichwing"? You have a lotta nerve Lori.

[TankLV]

99. Must've hit a close nerve!

I think you protest too much.

[TankLV]

97. Yes - they do seem to all crawl out of the woodwork with all their new

found "concern".

Very interesting.

I've noticed it for some time now.

[Demoiselle]

53. Did the Doc get the name of the official?

It's not in the story. I guess if I were in his shoes I would demand the official's name....like we're advised to get the cop's badge number if we feel we're being harassed. I am NOT doubting his story. I'm just frustrated that there doesn't seem to be any way to find the official and put him on the spot.

[tkmorris]

67. Thanks for the link.

That's what I wanted to see.

[NorthernSpy]

20. why aren't these people being arrested...

... for murder by depraved indifference?

[One_Life_To_Give]

22. Military moves on mountains of Paper

One lesson should be to get your registration and disaster training in place, before the emergency takes place. If you want to be able to help in next years storms, you should start the process now so you are ready to go when needed.

As to the story. I had always been taught that
1) Chest Compressions are performed on those who are already dead.
2) Once started they can only be stopped by complete exhaustion or declaring the patient dead. And only a competent medical authority can declare the person dead.

[Horse with no Name]

25. I'd really like to see complete verification of this story and source

Because having worked with many physicians, in my experience, an orthopaedic surgeon would be one of the VERY last ones to do lifesaving CPR. They generally run as fast as they can from code blue situations, waiting for the "real docs" (their words) to get there.

In the event this is legitimate, on September 2, Governor Blanco filed a Declaration of Public Health Emergency to suspend out-of-state licensure for medical professionals and personnel.
http://www.gov.state.la.us/2005%20Executive%20orders/26PublicHealthEmergencyDeclaration.pdf

If this is true, this was murder.

[Lori Price CLG]

28. I have read other accounts which tend to support this narrative. I don't

mean this person's story, I mean other accounts of doctors and healthcare workers being denied the opportunity to help in the aftermath of the levee breaches.

Lori Price

[Horse with no Name]

29. The Physician is legit

http://licensepa.state.pa.us/piresults.asp?sid=418079081&search=true&record=0

[One_Life_To_Give]

33. Were any trained/certified by FEMA

and denied the opportunity to help?

You do have to wonder if people who didn't take the time to train for disaster response before they ran to help. Are really the people you want to let loose in your disaster area. Some could be a bigger liability than they are worth.

[Lugnut]

40. Did you read the article?

Dr Perlmutter was the only doctor on the tarmac. There were no FEMA credentialed physicians there so FEMA didn't care if people died.

snip....

"I begged him to let me continue," said Perlmutter, who left his home and practice as an orthopedic surgeon in Pennsylvania to come to Louisiana and volunteer to care for hurricane victims. "People were dying, and I was the only doctor on the tarmac (at the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport) where scores of nonresponsive patients lay on stretchers. Two patients died in front of me.

"I showed him (the U.S. Coast Guard official in charge) my medical credentials. I had tried to get through to FEMA for 12 hours the day before and finally gave up. I asked him to let me stay until I was replaced by another doctor, but he refused. He said he was afraid of being sued. I informed him about the Good Samaritan laws and asked him if he was willing to let people die so the government wouldn't be sued, but he would not back down. I had to leave."

FEMA issued a formal response to Perlmutter's story, acknowledging that the agency does not use voluntary physicians.

"We have a cadre of physicians of our own," FEMA spokesman Kim Pease said Thursday. "They are the National Disaster Medical Team. ... The voluntary doctor was not a credentialed FEMA physician and, thus, was subject to law enforcement rules in a disaster area."

[One_Life_To_Give]

51. To play devils advocate

The presence of a Doctor is only significant if the equipment and supplies were available for him to function at a qualification level above other EMS personnel present.

This Doctor apparently couldn't take the time before hand (As in the preceeding years) to train and register as a emergency provider for situations like this. But in spite of not having the proper training for functioning in this environment. Decided to grab the glory of rushing down there.

We don't really have enough information on what was the state of medical activities at the airport during this time. To state how significant this Dr's presence was or was not. How many EMT's were on the ground and in direct radio contact with Emergency Doctors? Any Paramedics there? If the Dr. stopped giving CPR, who took over? Or did the Dr. declare the patient dead prior to stopping? How good is this Dr. at emergency medicine?

[Lugnut]

59. True enough

In a vacuum. I might question the veracity of this article if the same kind of story hadn't been repeated time and time again about FEMA's obstruction specifically of medical personnel.

[Occulus]

83. I am utterly, utterly shocked that any would question this man's

motives or his actions.

I'll leave it to your conscience to figure out which of the two parties mentioned in the article I am referring to.

(The real answers to that question, I think, would enlighten many people about those that surround them.)

[psychopomp]

118. "Decided to grab the glory of rushing down there"

WTF are you talking about? "grab the glory??"

You are way, way out of line. But, I suppose you know that and I also suppose that to be inflammitory is your motive. There is no other reason to for you to characterize this person's motivation as anything other than to save lives and reduce suffering--a physician's calling, IIRC.

Anything you might have had to add to this discussion is now seen in the light of this callous little piece of flamebait you threw out.

[Horse with no Name]

38. I've heard that too

But with this one we have a name.

[ninkasi]

62. The government's response is ridiculous

"We have a cadre of physicians of our own," FEMA spokesman Kim Pease said Thursday. "They are the National Disaster Medical Team. ... The voluntary doctor was not a credentialed FEMA physician and, thus, was subject to law enforcement rules in a disaster area."

The FEMA spokesman was more concerned with enforcing rules than in saving lives. Apparently none of their "credentialed" physicians were on hand. So it's better to let people die? Hasn't he heard that the government he works for is supposed to be the one that values the "culture of life"?

[NorthernSpy]

46. in the story's favor are the large number of details that can be checked..

... as well as the fact that the person making the allegations is not anonymous and has openly brought his grievances to the attention of the authorities.

[Nothing Without Hope]

80. You can email the article's author, a Baton Rouge reporter

Here's the permalink of the article (which is not given in the opening post):
http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091605/new_doctorordered001.shtml

Here's the name and email of the reporter:
LAURIE SMITH ANDERSON
[e-mail]

Ask her any questions you have. The full article is quite long and, as you say, full of details that could be checked.

[pitohui]

101. the baton rouge advocate is a good paper

i tend to put a little more faith in their stories than in some of the other local papers

they would not have invented this

[anotherdrew]

30. one outrage after another... it just doesn't stop. revolution NOW!

Someone needs to track down these officious little nit-wits and line them all up against the nearest brick wall! God-damn these pathetic little power mad freaks! damn them all to hell!

These are the kind of PIGs we turn to for help? Screw this, America is OVER right fucking now. IT's OVER. I will not be a citizen of a country that empowers such pathetic jackasses! How in hell can anyone justify this bullshit to themselves? Are we truly such a nation of monsters? Everyone who thinks like these FEMA officials are out MORTAL enemies, they mean to kill us all folks, time for the revolution or else...

[DrDan]

34. well we know who is responsible now, right?

[Nothing Without Hope]

41. They want total control by the POTUS & Pentagon - see this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112
thread title: Missing A KEY POINT in *'s speech: POWER GRAB FOR POTUS AND MILITARY

Forewarned is forearmed. We are past the point where this can be called "incompetence" this was mass murder for political ends. They also wanted to clear out all those poor people so they can redo New Orleans and the south THEIR way, plus all those corruptible reconstruction contracts.

[Lori Price CLG]

42. EXACTAMUNDO!!! Why can't people see that??? n/t

[Robeson]

57. That was a great post....

...:thumbsup:

[Nothing Without Hope]

69. Thanks for that. I sometimes feel I'm being a total fool to work so hard

putting together synthesis posts that almost nobody reads and at least half of those who do think I'm looney-tunes to propose such tinfoilhattery. I half-expected it to be locked or even totally "disappeared," as "conspiracy theory" is apparently a term with very broad interpretation at DU. (I've been crushed when my threads and other ones I consider important have been disappeared before.)

I hope at least a few people read the whole thing, including the material from me and other posters in the replies - there's enough there to start to put the pieces together. And there's so much more material. Anyone claiming the expectation of a move toward full martial law is just a kooky "conspiracy theory" just hasn't been paying attention. Or else they are wearing comforting reality-censoring blinders.

And then there are those - like my own sister-in-law - who cry "But this is AMERICA!" They just can't believe Bush may have stolen the election, let alone all the other crimes. They trust not only the government but the integrity of the Press.

At what point will this "conspiracy theory" become perceived as something other than a kooky embarrassment by "mainstream" Democrats? I hope it doesn't have to wait until the "theory" has become our crushing reality. That would be too late for regretting lost chances, let alone effective dissent.

Forewarned is forearmed. We have our work cut out for us. Any Dem leaders who fail to rise to this critical occasion must be dropped in favor of EFFECTIVE AND INSIGHTFUL leaders.

This is the turning point. Up or down for the country.

[Robeson]

86. Just remember what Gore Vidal said.....

...the other side - and sometimes our side - uses the term "conspiracy theory" in order to try and discredit an "unspoken truth"...

[Megahurtz]

58. This is SO sick!!! MURDERERS!!!! n/t

[leftchick]

91. nothing is incompetence with them, NOTHING!

they take advantage of disasters to further their power grab on this country. Folks that don't recognize the obvious are in denial. It is indeed genocide of a population for political gain. Nazis anyone??

[Nothing Without Hope]

43. Also see this thread about FEMA confiscating and blocking emergency aid

and vital supplies being sent to Methodist Hospital in New Orleans. Patients died as a result and suffering by all was enormously increased.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4777505
thread title: Herbert/NYT: "Sick and Abandoned" FEMA blocked emergency hospital

[wishlist]

47. Another doctor at airport was on TV talking about being stopped by FEMA

I saw a news show on either ABC or CNN several days ago featuring a doctor who worked in one of the NO hospitals that was flooded up to the second story. He and his coworkers and patients were evacuated to the airport where he says FEMA prevented him and the other doctor from saving lives. Instead they were told they could sweep floors instead if they wanted to help. The doctor I saw on TV was originally from Saigon, but had been practicing in NO for a number of years. He was in tears while telling news reporter about the situation in NO.

[Lori Price CLG]

48. Link to MSNBC article on the US turning away doctors from Cuba

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9311876/

Katrina aid from Cuba? No thanks, says U.S.

<snip>

In separate Washington press briefings, both the White House and State Department spokesmen this week downplayed the Cuban government’s offer to send some 1,600 medics, field hospitals and 83 tons of medical supplies to ease the humanitarian disaster.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack asserted last week that the Cuban medical brigade would probably not be needed since there has been a "robust response from the American medical community."

<snip>

Lori Price

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. FEMA supersedes Louisiana Good Samaritan law?

B. Any physician, surgeon, or member of the medical profession who is not licensed to practice medicine in Louisiana but who holds a valid license to practice medicine in any other state of the United States who gratuitously renders care or services at the scene of an emergency as herein provided shall not be charged with violation of the Louisiana Medical Practice Act.

This would be considered an emergency would it not? According to LA law he was within his legal rights to offer emergency care.

PDF file http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/-1/goodsamlaws.pdf

What FEMA did isn't moral, but is what they did even legal?

[anotherdrew]

they can do anything they want, who's gonna stop them?

The only thing that's going to stop these fucks is lots of bullets and a well organized military, which of course, we don't have at our disposal, so oh well...

[Miss Chybil]

102. Anybody with the balls to do it. This doctor should have continued

his life saving measures, as he was ethically and legally required to do. He should have been prepared to go to jail for it. Too many people just bent over and took it from FEMA. I'm sure there is no law giving FEMA the authority to interupt a doctor trying to save a life. NONE.

[anotherdrew]

103. even if there is such a foolish law...

no one in their right mind would enforce it, it's just senseless. Like this rethug bullshit about "the state had to request our services and didn't in time... "

Ask any rethug that spews this fecal matter, "who exactly would have stopped them from coming sooner? Even if they didn't get a request, even if they came into the state unasked, who would prosecute such a "crime" ?

[Miss Chybil]

116. Exactly. nt

[anotherdrew]

104. if he continued they probably would have tasered him to death

then we probably would never have heard a word about it, or if we did, still... no one would be doing a damn thing about it. bush is effectively exercising unlimited power with zero accountability. No one has the power to stop him from doing anything at this point. No one will track down this FEMA slime who drove off this doctor and: 1. fire his ass 2. press charges of reckless endangerment and abuse of authority leading to manslaughter.

[Miss Chybil]

115. If I was the doctor, they would have had to Taser me, shoot me,

whatever. There were a few people who defied FEMA and saved a lot of lives. Thank God for them.

[MountainLaurel]

61. Actually, in all probability, yes

One of the items in the REAL ID act, which no one paid much attention to in the furor over a national ID, gives the Department of Homeland Security in certain situations: They can take whatever actions they want, and the law specifically states that NO judicial review or oversight is allowed. FEMA is an agency in DHS.

[Megahurtz]

55. Unreal! You've got to be fucking kidding me!!!

This IS genocide for sure!!!

Take note people, another disaster happens and our country surely will not save us.:(

[nicknameless]

71. Unf'ing-believable. The evidence and charges just keep piling up.

Kick & nom.

[0007]

105. I would hope this incident is brought to the Senate floor

I would like to hear comments from Bill Frist. This is beyond the pale.

[nicknameless]

114. Wonder if he renders opinions on medical circumstances that don't

involve women in vegetative states?

[sakabatou]

72. The Goverment now longer cares about its people

[Nothing Without Hope]

73. ******* HERE IS THE PERMALINK FOR THIS IMPORTANT ARTICLE ********

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091605/new_doctorordered001.shtml

The permalink is to an article written by a Baton Rouge reporter. If you doubt her veracity, you can contact her at the email address given there.

The link in the opening post will soon no longer lead to the article as new articles cause it to scroll down out of sight.

READ THE WHOLE STORY!!! IT'S DEVASTATING. HERE'S MORE OF AN EXCERPT:

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091605/new_doctorordered001.shtml

Doctor says FEMA ordered him to stop treating hurricane victims

By LAURIE SMITH ANDERSON
[e-mail]
Advocate staff writer

In the midst of administering chest compressions to a dying woman several days after Hurricane Katrina struck, Dr. Mark N. Perlmutter was ordered to stop by a federal official because he wasn't registered with the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

"I begged him to let me continue," said Perlmutter, who left his home and practice as an orthopedic surgeon in Pennsylvania to come to Louisiana and volunteer to care for hurricane victims. "People were dying, and I was the only doctor on the tarmac (at the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport) where scores of nonresponsive patients lay on stretchers. Two patients died in front of me.

"I showed him (the U.S. Coast Guard official in charge) my medical credentials. I had tried to get through to FEMA for 12 hours the day before and finally gave up. I asked him to let me stay until I was replaced by another doctor, but he refused. He said he was afraid of being sued. I informed him about the Good Samaritan laws and asked him if he was willing to let people die so the government wouldn't be sued, but he would not back down. I had to leave."

FEMA issued a formal response to Perlmutter's story, acknowledging that the agency does not use voluntary physicians.

(snip - much more)

That last devastating sentence is expanded upon in the article. FEMA is in total control, you see, and they do NOT allow saving of lives except by their command. Which isn't given for "undesirables," apparently.

[Tigress DEM]

76. "We have a cadre of physicians of our own," Then where were they?

"We have a cadre of physicians of our own," FEMA spokesman Kim Pease said Thursday. "They are the National Disaster Medical Team. .."

NOOOO - they are just a disaster. If the government pulled him and let those people die, the gov should be sued. Up the ying AND the yang.

[Nothing Without Hope]

77. Martial law KILLED those people in New Orleans. In fact, I'm betting FEMA

regs are exactly as stated and that this murderous decision was strictly legal under martial law. I'm no lawyer, but I think the only chance for a successful suit - assuming it didn't come up before a Bush appointee judge - is to argue either:

• FEMA was negligent in not having its own doctors present
  
• FEMA showed racial discrimination in allowing these patients to die without care though a physician was present - I don't know if these patients were black and poor, but if they were it surely would be a pattern.

But another scary possibility is that there might be FEMA/martial law regs that EXEMPT them from suits of any kind. This is an important possibility that needs checking.

See, that's what martial law DOES. It sets aside all other laws, human decency, all representational government, everything but the narrow POTUS/Pentagon power of dictatorship. All supposedly for our own good. There is no recourse.

New Orleans people are already being killed by martial law. And don't doubt it - they want to spread that martial law over the whole country so that the military will march into dissenting blue state cities and suppress any protests.

Again, please read this thread, all of it including the replies, to get the picture on how it is so clear that nation-wide martial law/dictatorship is what they are after:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112
Thread title: Missing A KEY POINT in *'s speech: POWER GRAB FOR POTUS AND MILITARY

[Maeve]

88. A similar story in an OP-ED piece in NYTimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/17/opinion/17tierney.html

"At one point I had 10 helicopters on the ground waiting to go," said Marc Creswell, an Acadian medic, "but FEMA kept stonewalling us with paperwork. Meanwhile, every 30 or 40 minutes someone was dying."

Mr. Creswell said he had ferried in more than a dozen doctors and nurses to help at the airport, but they weren't allowed to work because they weren't certified. This was explained with a line Mr. Bush might keep in mind as he contemplates expanding Washington's role in the next disaster.

"When the doctors asked why they couldn't help these critically ill people lying there unattended," Mr. Creswell recalled, "the FEMA people kept saying, 'You're not federalized.'

[mbperrin]

96. Well, at least those people could die knowing they weren't worked

on by non-wonk approved personnel, right? I mean, they were PROTECTED from that, yeah? I mean, if non-federalized people work on them, they might DIE.

Woops, they died anyway. The operation was a complete success, but the patient died. :crazy:

Note to anyone out there: if you see me dying, help me, even if some wonk hasn't issued you a plastic ID card. Thanks.

[ThoughtCriminal]

75. I very surprised that the Doctor complied with the order

without a gun to his head. The FEMA idiot needed to be restrained and sedated. I wonder how this one got the job?:eyes:

[Nothing Without Hope]

79. It is the official policy of FEMA - it is martial law. They would have

dragged him away if they had to, lots of military to back them up. Read the entire article and you'll get a clearer sense of it. Here's the permalink (not given in the opening post):
http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091605/new_doctorordered001.shtml

This is only one of many, many stories of how FEMA's actions have resulted in deaths and additional trauma. This is POLICY. This is MARTIAL LAW. They can do any damn thing they want to, and have.

Read more about FEMA here:
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/FEMAsecretgovt1995.shtml
For seeing the plans for martial law and additional documentation, see this thread - all of it, because the replies contain a lot too:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790882

[Nothing Without Hope]

78. The doctor went home to Pennsylvania WITH A FAMILY OF FOUR EVACUEES

and is trying to arrange for more to come to Pennsylvania:

Perlmutter did not return home empty-handed. He brought a family of four evacuees back with him and is still working with Baton Rouge volunteer Hollis Barry to facilitate the relocation of additional hurricane victims to Pennsylvania.

Obviously the man had no business meddling in FEMA's affairs, trying to save the lives of poor people. FEMA knows best: just let them all die. This story of the valiant and compassionate Dr. Perlmutter is just one of so many that keep rolling in - PEOPLE ARE STILL DYING BECAUSE OF FEMA AND THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

And yes, I DO believe it is deliberate (in addition to the incompetence).

[Lori Price CLG]

110. Yes, I'm at a loss as to why the treason trials for Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/

Rove are not underway? :shrug:

Lori Price

[Kailassa]

84. Put a Case together?

Reading this thread is a relief in a way. Watching the tragedy evolve, from Australia, one of the most horrifying aspects was that the worst Bush-Co were being accused of was negligence and incompetance, when it was obvious there was nothing negligent or incompetant about it.

Bush is a puppet of an extrememly clever group, and underestimating them makes them impossible to fight. Just as they could never put themselves in the shoes of those they show so much contempt for, we are equally guilty of being unable to empathise. How many here can imagine what their own outlook might be if they were brought up within a sheltered group of families who regarded only themselves to have any value? What would you or I be like with Rockerfeller type wealth,a Bush type belief that you are God's instrument, a Babs type inability to identify with others, a Cheney type greed and ....... well I don't know who the smart ones are. When ancestry and wealth are more important than anything else, it makes sense to do whatever you think works best to mold the world into a place where your descendants will continue to be the aristocracy and your family fortune will be protected.

The only things mishandled by Bush-Co at New Orleans were that they left so many people alive and let the story get out. But then, the more desperate people you have scattered through the country, the lower wages sink. I don't generally believe in capital punishment, but for the people who murdered New Orleans, I'd gladly hold them under the toxic, stinking water myself.

[Coastie for Truth]

89. I posted on this previously (Re: Ham Radio Operators)

FEMA announced that all volunteers who had not been processed through FEMA in 2004 (i.e., granted a security clearance in 2004) were banned.

Part of the Bush - Cheney - Rove - Chertoff - Brown coverup.

[Sabriel]

90. FEMA's Hypocritic Oath: "First, do no help."

That seems to be the motto these days.

Did anyone hear the FEMA spokes-vet on NPR this morning, who couldn't even explain why the organization he works for was so obstructionist when it came to allowing fellow vets to do their job? WTF is the matter with them? They can't even get the animal-help part right?

[barb162]

93. it seems so, doesn't it.

There's a lot of places that don't have FEMA offices yet down there. Like three weeks. Well, the Bushies fire all the people who knew what to do, hire hacks and here's what we get. Insanity

[aion]

94. Ordered to stop, or to stop by?

[LibertyLou]

95. Class Action Lawsuit Needed- All PI Trial Lawyers please

stand up...and defend your countrymen against the abominitable injustice of 'murderous' government officials

[Miss Chybil]

100. Under what authority does FEMA keep a doctor from performing his

duty? If I was a doctor, I'd have told FEMA to sue me for saving people. In the meantime, I'd save them. Isn't the doctor's obligation first to his patient? If it's to a small branch of the federal government, we're up shit creek without a paddle.

[AirAmFan]

112. Sounds like a 'badging and credentialing' team was doing its job,

according to a wrong-headed 'National Response Plan'. The plan creates field teams whose very job description seems to give them no positive role in hurricanes and floods -- just interference with first responders and volunteers doing worthwhile things -- through "badging and credentialing", "access control", "site security", and "force protection".

There have been several DU threads about first reponders and supply trucks from elsewhere in the nation who couldn't penetrate tight "Homeland Security" around the Gulf disaster zone, and about officials who repeatedly decided it was not "safe" for busdrivers, helicopter pilots, and boat operators to enter New Orleans, as well as this report of a physician stopped from saving the life of a dying woman. Just who the officials were who seemed to have a nutty bureaucratic agenda of their own has not been determined.

But, if you look at DHS's organizational chart and National Response Plan, "ESF 13" for the Texas or Atlanta "Regional Resource Coordination Centers" VI or IV jumps out as the most likely culprit. Has anyone run across news stories about specific "Public Safety and Security" bureaucrats preventing rescue operations during Katrina? The job description for "ESF 13" officials sounds like almost pure bureacratic interference with useful rescue efforts: "badging and credentialing", "access control", "site security", and "force protection". THIS may be a prime example of how Dubya's "Homeland Security" obsession has screwed up pre-existing capacity to help first responders. See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4799309 for details and URL links.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

106. But if they'd been brain dead Floridians, shrub and Jeb would personally

have flown there and administered CPR? :shrug:

[fortyfeetunder]

107. Future physicians..some advice

Once you are board certified == PLEASE do whatever is possible to obtain the credentials to volunteer in an emergency situation. And carry those credentials no matter where you go. You never know.

That way the shills at FEMA can't pull this crap during the next catastrophe.

[McCamy Taylor]

108. FEMA couldnt lawfully stop him from rendering emergency aid. If

FEMA prevented him from doing so, FEMA broke the law and should be punished!!!!!

Did he get the name of the official? What did they do to stop him? Was he threatened with force? He needs to consult with La state District Attorney over this one, since most states regulate the practice of medicine within their borders and FEMA doesnt have any jurisdiction over who can and cant practice medicine in La. As far as I know ALL states have good samaritan laws that let knowledgeble people act in good faith to save lives until help arrives.

[DawgHouse]

111. Oh this is so horrible!

I try to imagine what it would be like if my son needed medical attention and FEMA wouldn't let a doctor give my son medical assistance. This is evil, just evil! :(

[Lori Price CLG]

117. 'I could have saved her life but was denied permission'

'I could have saved her life but was denied permission'

Refugees from New Orleans died after private doctors were ordered to stop giving treatment because they were not covered by United States government medical liability insurance, according to two American surgeons.

Mark N Perlmutter, an orthapædic surgeon from Pennsylvania, was told by a senior US Coast Guard officer representing the embattled Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) that he must leave the overstretched disaster relief hospital at New Orleans airport.

<snip>
Lori Price

[ecoflame]

119. Aaron Brown had Dr. Perlmutter on

his show tonite and apparently will have him back on this week again with other issues.