Military May Play Bigger Relief Role (Pay Attention Here)

[buzzsaw_23]

Military May Play Bigger Relief Role

Saturday September 17, 2005 8:01 PM


By ROBERT BURNS

AP Military Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush's push to give the military a bigger role in responding to major disasters like Hurricane Katrina could lead to a loosening of legal limits on the use of federal troops on U.S. soil.

Pentagon officials are reviewing that possibility, and some in Congress agree it needs to be considered.

Bush did not define the wider role he envisions for the military. But in his speech to the nation from New Orleans on Thursday, he alluded to the unmatched ability of federal troops to provide supplies, equipment, communications, transportation and other assets the military lumps under the label of ``logistics.''

The president called the military ``the institution of our government most capable of massive logistical operations on a moment's notice.''

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5285362,00.html

[Daphne08]

1. Military May Do More Domestic Disaster Work

This story should cause a "chill to run down the spine" of every American!


http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-katrina-military-role,0,768510.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

WASHINGTON -- President Bush's push to give the military a bigger role in responding to major disasters like Hurricane Katrina could lead to a loosening of legal limits on the use of federal troops on U.S. soil.

Pentagon officials are reviewing that possibility, and some in Congress agree it needs to be considered.

Bush did not define the wider role he envisions for the military. But in his speech to the nation from New Orleans on Thursday, he alluded to the unmatched ability of federal troops to provide supplies, equipment, communications, transportation and other assets the military lumps under the label of "logistics."

The president called the military "the institution of our government most capable of massive logistical operations on a moment's notice."

[A-Possum]

2. What is the point of this?

Why not just go back to when the National Guard handled domestic disaster work instead of having to do the job of the Army too??

Sheez.

[Trillo]

3. It would appear to be a strong federal, weak state government position.

Essentially that a state's guard should be supplanted by those under the direct and exclusive control of the POTUS.

[...of J.Temperance]

12. The point of this is...to declare Martial Law

President Clinton never needed this change, because President Clinton never intended to put the nation under Martial Law, cancel all elections and be declared President for Life...however, the Bush bastard DOES intend all of that, therefore he needs the military on the streets in a domestic policing role.

The Bush bastard is America's Ceaucescu and like Ceaucescu he will NOT be leaving office WITHOUT violence.

[burrowowl]

23. Don't scare me like that!

I don't think GW Bu$h will continue as pResident, however his ilk will be continued which is just as frightening (re voting machines). Will the American People wake up and take to the streets? Who is going to fight Corparatisism/Facism!

[Frances]

4. This is nuts.

The National Guard will fight our wars and the military will take care of domestic problems??????!!!!!

[Dover]

6. What faster way to end the National Guard than to send them into Iraq

as cannon fodder?

[ColonelTom]

13. Amen to that

It's absolutely absurd. Of course, given the difficulties they're having and will continue to have in recruiting new National Guard troops, the National Guard's going to have to be eliminated and replaced with a new "domestic troops" designation and new conditions of service (no overseas deployment) if they're going to undo the damage Dubya and his crew have done to the NG.

[buzzsaw_23]

20. The National Guard

will be replaced by the private mercenaries. Already happening. Domestic patrols from Blackwater, The Steele Foundation, B.A.T.S. et al will become more commonplace, especially in 'areas of concern".

From Jeremy Scahill interviewed by Amy Goodman:
I remember the other night you called me and you alerted me to this , and just today I had seen what I thought were some sort of spy drones because really, what we have seen here is sort of—some people are calling it “New Oraq” instead of New Orleans, because of all of the various forces, the Halliburtons, the KBR’s, the Blackwaters that are here now, the connections to Iraq are so incredible. The same looters who have raided the federal funds in Iraq, U.S. funds in Iraq, are looting federal funds here in New Orleans. Yes, I saw the drones flying overhead. I’m concerned, very concerned of the toxic waste that they’re now dumping on the city in addition to the horribly unsafe waters that flow through the city and continue to flow through the city.

And this from same interview:
...a “security company” called B.A.T.S. in Alabama (Bodyguard And Tactical Services). “I was talking to his head of security, I told him I was from New York, he said, I’ve been to New York during the daily news strike, referring to the strike the at the New York Daily News....”
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/16/1222257

From the Steele Foundation which has a role in New Orleans. “Global Rapid Response, a Steele Foundation service, has mobilized a Crisis Response Team to support those trapped in New Orleans and neighboring cities and states to assist clients in the recovery efforts of Hurricane Katrina,”......“In addition to the incident management team, several Quick Reaction Security Teams and multiple Damage Assessment Teams have been activated to travel into New Orleans to protect client personnel and to help secure assets....”

You can go to their website for more info

[Doris32r]

15. Exactly

The only reason the 'regular' army had to be sent to NO was because a great portion of the South's national guard and their equipment is overseas. I grew up in a river valley and my Dad was in the national guard. I can't tell you how many times he was sent to work on a flood. Bush weakened the national guard so he should have made certain that there was a plan for other states to send in national guard troops in case of any hurricane or flooding. He didn't do his job. Period. There is no reason to give him more power.

[despairing optimist]

5. NYers are already getting used to military uniforms

Patrolling train and bus stations, and such. I remember going downtown after 9/11 and taking in all the sights, sounds, and smells. It seemed like a set for a blockbuster movie, but it was horribly real and there were troops, armored personnel carriers, and I think even small tracked vehicles that looked like tanks but weren't, I guess.

Yes, the danger is the elimination of the Posse Comitatus Act and first a subliminal then progressively more conscious military presence in our daily lives, to the point where we become inured to that presence and the troops then go from defensive mode into offensive mode. Maybe talk has already begun of using the "Baghdad/Fallujah/Tal Afar Model" Stateside. Many more doors to be kicked in in the middle of the night here. Scary stuff.

I think we're on the verge of the abyss, but there's still time to stop this process. What's lacking is general public awareness and a stubborn commitment to take back the liberties lost and hold all the politicians accountable. They seem to have forgotten who's boss, and it's not their fault. It's ours.

[buzzsaw_23]

7. They Thought They Were Free

They Thought They
         Were Free
                by  Milton  Mayer

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop.  Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing.  One day it is over his head."

http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free_nn4.html

It's really getting tight out there.

[bbgrunt]

29. ......very chilling any very apt quote n/t

[jobycom]

8. They had enough authority, they just WEREN'T THERE!!!!!!!

Change the goddamned Commander in Chief and everything would be fixed.

[Porcupine]

16. THEY WERE THERE!!! USS Bataan was on station off NOLA Tues.

They were ordered NOT to use their amphibious landing craft, hospital facilities, 6 operating rooms, water trucks, MRE's etc. to benefit the people of New Orleans. They were on station Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday were ordered to leave.

The largest grouping of helicopters in the world is at the Army's helicopter training school in Alabama. Hundreds of helicopters that were not used AT ALL!!! IN ALABAMA!!!

Google: USS Bataan.

Genocide by incompetance or design.

[DELUSIONAL]

18. Right -- why wasn't the Bataan used?

The Commanders said in interviews they were waiting for orders and NONE CAME.

Will the Democrats be wimps and sign over the military to bushie to be used on American citizens -- how many American cities will be Fluked?

It might be wise to make fall back plans to LEAVE the US.

[MADem]

25. Didn't want a female center-stage, maybe?

The skipper of that ship is one helluva ship driver, and SHE is very experienced. The ship runs like a swiss watch...

I'd put nothing past these misogynistic bastards.

[Jawja]

30. Which begs the question,

what happened to our air defense on September 11, 2001? Appears to be a similar pattern here, doesn't it?

Our defense/rescue systems somehow massively fail under Nero's command. Wonder why?

[jobycom]

31. But that's not National Guard.

The National Guard is not limited by Posse Comitatus, and can engage in law enforcement to stop looters. They have a more clear authority in cases like this.

My point is that Bush wants to give federal troops more authority on American soil, thus blaming beauracracy and federal restrictions for New Orleans, when we already have troops with the authority to do what needs to be done, but those troops weren't there.

I agree the troops on hand should have been ordered by the feds to assist in whatever ways they could, and the Commander in Chief should have given the orders, on recommendation from Chertoff and Brownie. But Bush, as always in his life, proved incapable of handling a crisis. But to me the bigger problem was the misuse of the National Guard--something Bush had been warned about. He should not be allowed to increase federal authority over the states just because HE FAILED to use what authority he already has, and stole the states' troops in the first place.

In an emergency like that you act first and figure out the proper paperwork later. That's how leaders act. We don't have a leader at the top, and Bush makes sure he doesn't appoint leaders below him. That would cramp his style, I guess.

[KittyWampus]

9. Clinton's FEMA Didn't Need To In 93/97. Only Bush's Incompetent Leadership

and corrupt, incompetent cronies in FEMA, HS and every other Federal Branch caused such a massive fuckup.

[DELUSIONAL]

10. There were no restrictions on the military HELPING

but apparently bushie is too damned stupid or he deliberately with held military help and assistance because he believes people in the US are too damned stupid to figure out what he wants to do.

Early on I read an Air Force Vet in Daily Kos asking why the Air Force personnel and equipment weren't being used to help the victims. And I was asking -- where is the Navy?

All during his career my father helped the local communities (or state) during Natural Disasters -- Floods, etc.

Pensacola Florida has a military bases and two 'copter pilots hear the Coast Guard calling for assistance to help victims and these pilots went to help -- rescuing about 100 people. When the pilots returned to base they were reprimanded -- which made them angry. Could it be that the military was ordered to STAND DOWN and not assist????

There is something very fishy about the reaction of the base commander.

As commander in Chief -- bushie could have ordered the military to help in significant numbers. But apparently he wants to turn the US into a military zone?? And he idea of using the military isn't to HELP but to do harm to Americans??

If bushies leaves in three years -- at the end of his stolen term in office -- I really don't believe what he leaves behind will be American anymore. Or perhaps he has stripped away the onion skin and is merely revealing the true character of America??

[...of J.Temperance]

11. The Bush bastard DOESN'T plan on leaving the WH...EVER

The change in the law for the troops to take a more domestic role, is actually for HIM, they're just using the disaster thing as a cover.

The troops are for HIM, to help keep him in during Martial Law, if the people get uppity with having a full-blown Fascist dictatorship, the Bush bastard will just have them shot.

[DELUSIONAL]

17. exactly!

When bushie did not call on the military from all over the US to help the victims of the hurricane and they could have been used in the three states most heavily impacted by Katrina -- I knew that something was afoot.

I've written my Elected Reps and demanded to know why the military wasn't called into action.

The answer? Bushie does not intend to leave EVER.

[...of J.Temperance]

19. It's funny that Hurricane Andrew and Hurricane Ivan, both of which caused

Immense destruction, it's funny that Poppy and President Clinton NEVER demanded that THEY needed more powers and that the military had to be given a greater role in a domestic situation.

Odd that the mediawhores haven't mentioned this...NOT.

The Bush bastard is going to use this disaster as an excuse to seize more power for himself, in order to remain indefinately in the WH. I'd bet the farm on this happening.

Also, when Bush called a state of emergency for Louisiana, pretty much EVERY Parish was included, EXCEPT Orleans and Jefferson. I mean Caddo, Bossier, Morehouse, Concordia, Winn, Webster etc ALL of those Parishes had ZERO chance of EVER being affected by Hurricane Katrina. Yet the two big Parishes that were under TOTAL threat from Hurricane Katrina were Orleans and Jefferson and yet Bush DELIBERATELY didn't put them under a state of emergency.

Again, it's odd that the mediawhores haven't mentioned this...NOT.

The entire thing was premeditated and deliberate. They wanted as much destruction as possible, and as much chaos as possible in order to justify their ULTIMATE power grab...and ALSO to remove in it's ENTIRITY a HUGE decades old Democratic voting block from Orleans and scatter them all over the country in the hope that the majority of these people NEVER return to NOLA.

[July]

14. Remember when, under Clinton, the far right feared this type of thing?

I wonder what they're thinking now?

[natrat]

21. unconstitutional,,,,oh yea whats that matter

[Theduckno2]

22. Pay Attention indeed!

Bush's push for more military involvement in dealing with major disasters was what really caught my ear in his speech and not for any "good" reasons.

1. In a world where I can track my UPS shipment, online, 24 hours a day, why can't civilians handle the logistics of disaster management?

2. Disaster management in large part, IMHO, does not need cutting edge high-tech solutions. Just food, water, basic shelter, basic transportation, basic communications and good preparation; things that civilians can provide.

a. Although I admire the heroic exploits of the helicopter crews that plucked people off rooftops, I can't help but wonder how much of that could have been avoided with the pre-flood use of 100 low-tech civilian school buses.
b. The Marine hovercraft brought considerable aid to the region, but as much as 100 low-tech civilian air boats?

3. The military-industrial complex is notorious for playing up threats to increase weapons procurement. Adding disaster management to the military's duties only makes increases in weapons procurement more likely and more expensive!

One possible irony to this proposed course of action is that the U.S. military, that stood by and watched looting by Iraqis, would in a major domestic disaster resort to force to deal with looters.

DUers Please Pay Attention and heed the warning of Milton Mayer! Thanks for the reminder buzzsaw_23!

Edit: to mention buzzsaw_23 posting.

[babsbunny]

24. I saw this on Raw Story

but I always have to come to DU to see what things actually mean. It seems no matter how much we hate "W" he just keeps doing more and more to make us hate him more! Somethings Gotta Give!

[MADem]

26. Actually, I think this whole mess might be a two-step back to the DRAFT

When people scream and holler about the military's increased role on home soil, which they will, they counter it with a NATIONAL SERVICE force that could do these sorts of things. Mandatory service for all, but if you do not want to be under arms, you can fight forest fires, pull dead bodies out of rubble, grade roads, that sort of thing...

[Massachusetts]

28. Maybe thats whats needed to wake up the ...

MAJORITY of Americans who are still ASLEEP at the switch, and FAR to Passive about their/our governments policies.

"Actually, I think this whole mess might be a two-step back to the DRAFT"

[MADem]

32. That is Charlie Rangel's thinking and he has a point

It isn't just the "shared sacrifice" angle, it's the ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES angle. And the cheering squad for the cheerleader at the White House might not be so goddamn cheery if their asses are getting shot at....or, if able to worm out of the war, be forced to fight a wildfire or snag corpses out of the river that used to be a street.

There are plenty of dirty jobs, and someone's got to do them...

[IndyJones]

33. I hope you're wrong.:(

[MADem]

34. Frankly, I do too

But this is the Moving Goalposts Administration....if they are too close, they move them away, if too far, they move them closer and declare victory!!! Or Mission Accomplished!!!

[populistdriven]

27. Actually this may be the only thing stopping WORLD WAR 3

Because the military WILL justify their budget, either through building the creole disney land or nukeing something

[JerseygirlCT]

35. Let me see if I've got this right

So the feds screw up, big time. FEMA doesn't just not perform well, it doesn't perform at all. Communications, one of the big problems with 9-11, are still a mess.

And the solution to all this is to give them MORE power?

I don't know. When someone is working for me, and they totally mess up, I don't hand them more responsibility and authority.

[Sandpiper]

36. They're after the Posse Comitatus Act

And the (dis)honorable Senator Warner says as much.


Yet again, the neocons will pounce on any opportunity to make society more militaristic.

[buzzsaw_23]

37. you got it

and it is pretty much a dead letter right now.