Clinton: Why High Oil Prices Are Good Thing

[buzzsaw_23]

Clinton: Why high oil prices are good thing

By David Usborne

Published: 18 September 2005


Bill Clinton revealed new "greener-than-thou" environmentalist credentials last week, privately suggesting to heads of government and industry leaders at his world forum in New York that they should celebrate the recent spike in oil prices as the best opportunity to begin weaning their nations from fossil-fuel dependency.

Such is his interest in alternative energy, Mr Clinton told The Independent on Sunday, that he intends asking local government officials in Westchester, New York, where he lives with his wife Hillary, to investigate supplementing the local grid with solar-generated power. His new presidential library in Little Rock, Arkansas, has enough solar panels to provide one-third of its power needs.

The environment was a key area of discussion at the former president's three-day forum on world affairs, held at a Manhattan hotel and dubbed the "Clinton Global Initiative". He also raised the issue of oil prices during the meeting's opening session on Thursday, during which he and the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, engaged in a panel discussion about the world's immediate challenges.

Teasing his guests on stage, who also included the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, and King Abdullah of Jordan, Mr Clinton said he knew he could not ask the question directly, but perhaps they were not unhappy that oil prices had risen so sharply. The price of crude oil has doubled in two years. The rhetorical inquiry drew a broad smile from Mr Blair, who looked ready to blurt agreement. "A sitting politician can't answer that question, of course," Mr Clinton explained in conversation with the IoS. "But I think it is a good thing because, believe me, this is going to concentrate minds all around the world. It is quite clear that we are too dependent on hydrocarbons."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/environment/article313434.ece

[applegrove]

1. I agree that we will be running out - at some point they will cut off

gas to people and use it only for the War machine, the firefighter, ambulances & the police.

We need to start looking at alternatives. And thinking about what we do before we get into a car and drive. Big Oil hates that. But that is what we all need to be doing.

[Spiffarino]

2. Totally agree, much as I hate the repercussions of high fuel prices

We have allowed Big Oil, OPEC, and oligarchs like the Bush Crime Family to effectively run our country far too long. If high petroleum prices cause Americans to work toward alternatives, it's going to be a blessing; maybe it won't benefit my kids, but perhaps it will my grandchildren.

In any case, cleaner and more efficient means of making power are long overdue. If fuel prices drop, raise the tax on it. Use the money to take care of Bush's deficit or something, but don't bring back cheap oil. It would be a death sentence for us.

[Ksec]

3. Its not good when people have to choose between food or fuel.

I understand his point, but its killing me and millions of others who are on a budget and 3 dollar a gallon gasoline is breaking me down. Big time.

[Spiffarino]

6. It's going to hurt a lot of us

If fuel prices stay up, we will be forced to change the way we live. In some ways, it's already happening. People all over town are driving small cars and, if they drive a big guzzler, they drive a lot slower.

Choosing between food and fuel is tough, but what's tougher is the fact that the price of food and everything else is going up as a result of high oil prices. As the old blues man said, the hard times they just keep gettin' harder.

My great hope is that we as a nation will put enormous resources into getting off the oil teat once and for all time. Then maybe the pain will have been worth it.

Good luck...to all of us.

[Seabiscuit]

70. It's already destroying the airlines. All but 2 of the major airlines are

in Chapter 11 bankruptcy - and American and Continental are hanging on out there by their fingernails.

[genieroze]

12. I hear you.

[Kipling]

17. Just use less.

In Europe, petrol prices are almost always over $6 because they have 200% taxes on them to discourage car use. People survive - I survived as a student on $7000 a year.

[DS1]

26. Yet, when people like you, who are apparently the loud majority,

realize that people who are hurt by rising gasoline prices are the same ones who can't just got out and drop some cash on a hybrid, or find a new house or rental closer to the city *because they are more expensive for that exact reason* you will, in your infinite wisdom, figure out a way for those people to use less fuel.

[Kipling]

68. Well, how about...

1) Using the car less. There are trains for long distances, and buses, bicycles and feet for getting to work.
2) Buying a diesel. They don't cost much more than petrol and they get a much better mpg rate. French makes like Citroen and Peugot are especially cheapto run as diesels. Even some hybrids, like the Honda Civic, are pretty cheap.
3) Switching to natural-gas heating.

[physioex]

69. Natural Gas....

Comes from Petroleum. Hardly the "Alternative". Start by Insulating the House. But that Only goes so Far......

[Kipling]

74. No, it's mostly methane.

http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/background.asp

[FeloniousMonk]

79. And methane is acquired...

by processes that look suspiciously like those used to acquire other hydrocarbons locked in the earth. Diesel, too. If hybrid cars use hydrogen, well, that comes from the same place, through a dirty little amazing process called "fractional distillation" and another process that might be called "unification." We are so dependent on petroleum, it's just unbelievable. Even if we have solar power, where are we going to get polymers for our clothes, computers, blah, blah, blah?

I'm not arguing against Clinton's opinion. Chomsky said something similar:

Peak Oil Theory

The basic theory is incontrovertible. The only questions have to do with timing and cost....

The date can be pushed back much farther if more costly (or maybe some to-be-discovered improved) technology is used. As for the estimates of cost, by reasonable standards one could argue that oil is far under-priced. In real terms, it’s not particularly high now as compared with other commodities, from some reasonable base line. And low-priced oil leads to heavier use and less effort to create sustainable alternatives.

That I think is a far more serious problem than production peaking. In fact, one could argue that the earlier production peaks, the better off the human species (and a lot more) is, because of the effects of unconstrained use of hydrocarbons on the environment.

http://blog.zmag.org/index.php/weblog/entry/peak_oil_theory/

[physioex]

81. Good Post.......

I agree with what you said.....Welcome to DU.

[Jamastiene]

71. You make a good point. I agree that buying a hybrid makes the best sense..

When the current car I am driving goes caput. I can't afford to buy a hybrid right now. I have to live in the meantime. Living in a rural community makes it hard to survive without an automobile. We have to do what we can when we can.

[ljaycox]

21. You are going to have to change how you live...

Now, does that mean some wingnut sink or swim strategy.. NO! This society, this country has to form some framework to help you make the necessary changes. But you must be willing to make changes, hollering for cheaper oil is no longer going to work.

[IndyJones]

35. That's right. It costs my husband $50 per week to drive to work and back.

That's $200+ per month - fixed cost - and rising. We simply can't afford it.

[Lorien]

59. The very poor can't afford a car at all

I'm cash strapped, so I gave up cable TV, magazines, my gym membership, etc. If it gets worse than I'll give up internet access so that I can still eat. I plan my drives carefully, consolidating my trips when possible.

Can we all "afford" the effects of our fossil fuel addiction? Global warming, terrorism, the Iraq war, the coming famines, droughts, storms, forest failure, oceans dead zones and all the rest that comes with climate change? It won't be at all easy to eat when we can no longer grow crops.

[YapiYapo]

78. Cry me a river.

Are you implying that american people are more important than rest of the world ?

Who is hurt more by high gas price ? The richest country on earth or the rest of the world (mostly africa) ?

Fact :
America = 5% of world population
America = 33% of world energy consumption.

Basicaly with our way of life we are letting a lot of people living in poverty (that's probably kill many of them).

I beleive it won't hurt fat america to eat a bit less and let more for the rest of the world.

[dcfirefighter]

4. high prices are the only alternative

i just wish it was due to a tax - a tax who's revenue could then be used to offset everyone's higher costs: those who conserve would gain money, those who consume a lot would lose money. Alternative energy and conservation would each have the appropriate level of financial support.

As it is, since no one gets a 20 year patent on conservation, and no one can be the market leader in conservation, we sit and hope for a magic bullet, a new technology, to allow us to continue using the same levels of energy as we have been.

[KoKo]

5. Yes...in a "Global Sense" that might be a good thing...but what it does

to folks who have to drive to work and whose jobs are dependent on what it costs to transport goods and services then it might not be such a great thing for American Consumers who have lost jobs due to outsourcing already so that cheap labor can produce goods that are sent over here while our high tech jobs go to India and our Airlines go bankrupt so they can cut back on the pensions to their workers.

I guess in the "Macro" Sense that's good. If our P-Resident/Emperor could find some plan that we could sacrifice fairly for the rise in oil and natural gas prices. Maybe like Carter said...turn off those lights in the Corporate Towers at night and turn the thermostats up or down depending on your climate. Maybe lowering the speed limit like Carter did to save some gas. Asking folks to do their wash at night instead of during the day at peak time.

Well there's lots that can be done but to have this be some Global Summit smug chortling about how this will teach folks a less or to is not what most of us want to hear when our pocket books are getting hit and we have families to feed and and jobs to get to...if we still have a job.

:-(

[MH1]

18. Well, in a sane world...

Long ago there would have been a high tax placed on hydrocarbon energy and a portion of the taxes would have been used to a) subsidize mass transit, and b) subsidize some reasonable transportation for low-income folks living in any areas where mass transit didn't exist (phased out in areas where mass transit could be economically implemented).

The other portion of the tax revenue would have been used to replace hydrocarbon energy use with more sustainable technologies.

Alas, we don't live in a sane world. So, when the inevitable happens, as it is happening now, some folks just get screwed. That's "compassionate conservatism" for you.

[Art_from_Ark]

83. Jimmy Carter did just that

It was called the windfall profits tax and it was levied against excessive profits of the oil companies and used to fund mass transit and alternate energy research. Unfortunately, Idiot Reagan repealed it as soon as he could. Recently, Senator Byron Dorgan has been trying to introduce a new windfall profits tax.

[fed-up]

7. High oil prices ARE a PROBLEM for some of us that don't have bottomless..

bank accounts.

Where the HELL is the leadership of this country, and by that I mean at the local, state and federal level????

Politicians do NOT need to wait to mimic *** lame ass speeches.

Why are Dems not shouting from the rooftops that people need to get rid of their gas guzzlers, why aren't they pushing for alternative energy sources, why aren't they encouraging car pooling???

Why is it the poor schmucks like me that drive economy cars (Honda Civic Wagon, 30MPG) are paying jacked up prices at the pump so those that drive vehicles that get 15MPG or less can have all the gas they want???

Somehow my parents managed to get by with one car and six kids. Yeah, we walked alot or arranged car pools to get to athletic/other events.

I am so pissed lately that I have taken to asking gas hog drivers if they are pleased that their gross over consumption is contributing to the outrageous gas prices..A few have hung their heads in shame and said they were thinking about getting different vehicles.


*Note* Yes, I am overly upset by BFEE, Iraq War and Katrina deaths and that dear BF's 19 YO ex-step son will be leaving for Iraq next week.

*2nd Note* This rant does not apply for those that need larger vehicles to transport needed work items.

[MichiganVote]

9. Agree.. easy for politicians to talk...too easy.

But hey, they just passed an energy bill that provides millions TO the oil companies. Maybe Clinton would like to comment on that.

[barb162]

23. I had a thought that won't work but I want to mention it

anyway. SUVs and other guzzlers pay 2x or 3x as much PER GALLON at the pump than economy cars. Somehow or other we have to force the guzzlers off the roads.

[izzie]

8. It can not hurt in cutting down the use of the stuff.

The cost is hurting every one in the pocket book and I fear the heat this winter. I have talked to every one in my family about how it was as a child for me. The grades of stickers and what you could get and all that. You just have to learn to live in another way. I am all for stop keeping homes at 72 also. To hot. What people are going to do with 3000 sq.ft homes is beyond me. We did not have oil until I was in high school and had coal stockers and all that mess before. . It was a pain. I can recall the smell of it at school to this day. As a kid I lived in a big house and in winter things were shut off and not in use. Same for every one I knew. Frankly we had central heat but most of the people I knew did not and many just had wood or coal stoves. Most people who lived in this town worked for the govt. or in vacation work. It was a small town in Maine.Cold and windy as it was on the coast.I fear is will be very pesty for many people.

[ihelpu2see]

10. Im making Biodiesel and home heating fuel as we speak!!! eom

[nvliberal]

11. Clinton's wrong.

It doesn't do any good to blather on and on about conserving energy when people are going to freeze to death or not be able to drive their cars.

Some people are so out of touch with the reality of most people's lives it's pathetic.

[DBoon]

56. and your neighbors don't mind??

Sounds like you are running a refinery in your back yard.

[ihelpu2see]

61. well the I am only on my first batch.... the by products are biodegradable

and Bio Diesel is carbon neutral.... and it all fits in my garage.... the one thing that is worrisome is it needs methanol, pretty dangerous stuff...

[high density]

13. Maybe Bill would like to pay the heating bills of everybody in New England

:eyes:

[BiggJawn]

14. He could afford to, with all thse Chimpy tax cuts that he's gotten...

Yeah, you Feel My Pain, alright, Slick Willy.

Lemme ask you this, Bill. How much does it cost to fill up your Escalade? Hmm? What? you don't KNOW? An Aide does it for you? Your ACCOUNTANT pays the credit card bill every month, and the only feedback you get is "You're doing very well, Mr. President"?

Let me ask you something, Bill. WHO is in a better position to set the policy that will MOVE this culture AWAY from big guzzling penis augmenteer trucks and SUV's and get us on the road to renewable energy, Guys like ME, who pay $140 MORE a month for fuel, and who are now getting "those" phone calls and threats to shut off the electricity and water, or Fat Cats like YOU, who can't even tell me how much fucking money it takes to fill your Caddilac Pee-Peemobile...

And to think I would have taken a bullet for you! THIS is the thanks I get.

Fuck you, you Yuppie scum rich asshole.

"Hey, I got MINE,AND the blow-job! Fuck Y'all!"

[Miss Chybil]

19. And the alternative is to keep using fossil fuels until they just run out?

Do you think the price is going to go down the less we have? Did anybody fix the levees in New Orleans before they broke? I hate the high prices, too. In fact, I stood at the gas station and cried a couple weeks ago. In the end, if this forces consumers to use less and corporations to develop alternative energy sources, it will have been a good thing. If it doesn't, we're just screwed.

[high density]

24. Yeah, I'm all for alternative fuels

The problem is that my house and many others are still heated with oil at this time. My car still runs on gasoline, too. As such, I get a little annoyed when I see people saying "oh these high prices are great, because they'll spur on alternative fuel development." That may be the case, but those solutions are years or decades away and most people are already hurting now with flat wages and soaring costs.

[Miss Chybil]

60. So, what's your solution?

Only pain spurs change. If everything's going great, nobody's going to fix anything. It seems every generation has faced it's challenges. This is ours. Let's hope we come out on top.

[BiggJawn]

67. It's pretty "painful" now.

But who listens to *ME*?

Nobody, abso-fucking-lutely NOBODY.

"Let's hope we come out on top"

Oh, indeed, and why don't we offer voiciferous supplications to the Flying Spaghetti Monster while we're at it? Might have the same effect.

As long as the decisionmakers are:

A. making LOTS of short-term cash fucking our grandkiddies out of energy sources.

and

B. totally CLUELESS as to the cost of living to us "little smelly people".

They ain't gonna do Jack Shit about finding alternate sources of energy.

Perhaps if a million or so of us freeze to death some winter they might miss our consumption, but I doubt it.

[Miss Chybil]

73. Well, maybe we should just put a gun in our mouth now and give up. nt

[CountAllVotes]

34. Clinton = one of the "have mores"

that has never been a "have not" ... well not for very long, not long enough obviously.

:kick:

[kysrsoze]

66. You know, I love how witty that statement sounded from any DU'er here

People were saying, "Yeah, good thing the gas prices are high." When Clinton says it, you all whine about it. Don't forget that this guy has been more concerned about your average citizen than any other president since Carter. This is NOT your enemy. I am not happy about him hanging out with Poppy and I'm really disliking Hillary lately, but as president, he would have attempted to do something about all these issues, and also has consistently bashed Bush both overtly and covertly on the same.

[Seeking Serenity]

72. But he didn't

but as president, he would have attempted to do something about all these issues

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

He had eight years to do something, but he didn't. Wasn't politically expedient, don'cha know.

That's why I'm on his case. It's all so easy for him to talk now, now that he doesn't have to worry about paying a political price.

[electricray]

15. As much as I feel the pinch right now

I just count myself and my family as living, breathing casualties of the world's most recent revolution. The money Americans spend on stuff that is not neccessary to live is staggering. I know that there are those who spend every dime on neccessities with none left over, but that is not the situation that most Americans are in. If we suffer due to high gas prices, perhaps we will find ways to make do without the gas. The meeker we are because of crippling fuel prices, the higher the likelyhood that we will inherit the earth through creativity that is absent in those who can afford to weather what they view as a high-prices storm. If the wealthy keep spending to maintain current lifestyles while the poor learn to live off the grid, I believe the fittest for long-term survival will be the poor. I'm not saying it doesn't suck. My point is that it has probably sucked for all revolutionary participants (willing or otherwise) throughout history.

[krkaufman]

16. One of the top 5 reasons that I'm not a fan of Bill Clinton

Among his other failings as President, and aside from his successes, his failure to pick-up the gauntlet thrown-down by Jimmy Carter in 1979 showed a lack of vision and courage. The strength of the economy during the late '90s, combined with the entrepreneurial energy of the time, would have been the perfect time to get back to the job of weaning ourselves of foreign sources of energy.

Most importantly, at a minimum, Clinton's failure to use the bully pulpit to educate the masses on the issue has left a majority of the population in the dark (figuratively and literally). Further, had Clinton helped stake the Democratic claim to the position, the country would be one step closer to getting back on track.

[Pepperbelly]

22. When oil was at $15 a barrel?

I think your remark shows a lack of economic acumen that fails to grasp the way things actually work in large-scale commodity.

[sandnsea]

27. Yeah, but why?

He shouldn't have let oil go that low and it happened, in part, because of a strong dollar. I don't know what that meant economically, had to be a reason for it, but it was a huge mistake in regards to the price of oil.

[Pepperbelly]

31. why?

Cheap energy helped life millions of us out of poverty. Right now the actual price of the oil sans Bush's war, falling dollar, terrorism, dividends to the oil producers, I suggest that the price would no be at less than $25.

Artificially pumping up the price serves only to bloat the oil producing countries and the Petro domestic industries without doing anything for the quality of life of those at the lower end of the eco spectrym.

[sandnsea]

38. And now high prices are good for us???

:crazy:

Makes no damned sense. He knew we needed to be getting off of oil in the 90's. Don't come snorting around the alternative energy platform when he didn't do anything about it when he could have. Political opportunists, that's all those two are.

And if you believe that the only problem is that oil isn't $25 a barrel, then there's a whole big old desert of sand in the ME for you to stick your head in. The oil is not going to last forever.

[Pepperbelly]

40. Sorry ...

but the economics of it is the only thing prohibiting the production of even more oil than has been exploited. Light sweet crude makes up less than half of an oil deposit and right now, that is what we exploit. The remaining oil ... heavier and more difficult to extract, still lies waiting for the economics to make it worth producing. When it does, the amount of oil left is more than what we have already consumed.

[sandnsea]

42. Wow, unbelievable

I thought if we had made any progress at all it was that the country knew we needed to get off of oil; for a whole host of reasons. Guess not, not even that. Just sad.

[Pepperbelly]

43. Geez ...

I didn't realize that you were fact-adverse enough to resort to shallow rhetorical devices when you run out of steam on the argument.

[sandnsea]

44. "Facts"

You post yours, I post mine, lather, rinse, repeat. I don't even bother doing it anymore, it's a waste of time. That Bill and Hillary are political opportunists however, is becoming clearer by the day. And it's sad, because they had the potential to really make a difference.

While this article says he's bashing Bush, he's also bashing the UK media for being so mean to America over Katrina. Like I said, just shut up Bill.

[Pepperbelly]

47. No, that is not correct.

I had stated that the economics of oil production and the rising cost of energy will result in the economic efficacy for the recovery of heavier oil rather than the light, sweet crude that we currently use.

That was when you freaked out and accused me of all sorts of calumnies. No, I am not guilty of those crimes as charged. What I am guilty of is noting the truth, that higher prices will result in increased supply for reasons outside of mere conservation. IOW, even without conservation, the increased supply will result.

Conservation might, in fact, serve to retard the prices which is ok with me as well.

[YapiYapo]

76. The economics of it is the only thing prohibiting the production

False, that's what oil company want you to beleive but the new production that should come online the next years will only cover other declining oil sources.At the very best we will reach 90millions barrels/day in the following year, then no matter what we do, oil production will decline (world use 85millions/day at the moment)

We are close to the peak, even when you consider other type of oil like shale oil and tar sand.Those kind of oil requiere incredible high amount of energy to extract and process.That mean one thing, oil will only be more and more exepensive in the following years.That's why high price in the 90' could have help to solve part of the problem.

[Seeking Serenity]

28. Energy conservation and alternative fuels didn't poll well

ergo, BC didn't do anything in that area.

No guts, no glory.

[Pepperbelly]

32. bullshit ...

your economic understanding is clearly anemic. I suppose you would've traded the economic high tide of the 90s in exchange for feeling spartin and green?

That is a bullshit position, bankrupt of value, practical or philosophical.

[sandnsea]

39. Its either/or, is it?

Is that what you're saying? Oil or the environment?

That's a political position, but not one I would have thought a DUer would adhere to.

[Pepperbelly]

41. Gee ... I like you and all but ...

I do not intend to allow you to put words in my mouth. What I said was that there simply was not the economic incentive in place in the 90s for this imperative.

The only immediate payoff would be psychological.

And that is all it would be.

I am fucking ECSTATIC that Bill kept the price low in the 90s. Me, and many other poor people, managed to raise our life style marginally which is a hell of a lot more than we would have had if YOUR position had been adopted.

[Seeking Serenity]

45. I'm happy for you

All I'm saying is BC got to enjoy the benefits of low oil prices in the '90s (his benefit being not having to bear the brunt of the blame for high energy costs and not having to preach conservation and sacrifice, which would have inure to his political detriment) and now that he's out of office and rich, he goes about preaching about how great it is we have high energy prices so as to get people to change those lifestyles they came to enjoy in the '90s.

Of course, he'll never sweat the pain high energy prices will be inflicted on the rest of us.

BS, BC.

[Pepperbelly]

46. If you believe in Peak Oil ...

then your position MUST be that there was nothing that he could have done about rising oil prices because such increases were inevitable.

So what exactly should he have done? Stimulated rising prices earlier? Cast aside those who rose from desperate poverty during his administration?

[Seeking Serenity]

48. How about a little foresight when we were fat and happy

and planning and preparing instead of him now preaching to us about the wonderfulness of high oil prices (especially now that he's no longer in office and doesn't have to pay any political price). But no, that's wouldn't have been politically expedient. Didn't poll well, y'know.

All I'm pointing out is how it is oh-so-easy for him to talk now.

[Pepperbelly]

49. And what exactly ...

should he be saying other than a big portion of the strategic reserve should be released and the oil companies should be examed closely for gouging?

Oh yeah, Hillary has already said that. Weeks ago.

[Seeking Serenity]

50. You're not getting it.

I'm calling him out on his hypocrisy.

He didn't do a thing substitanvely re: energy policy when he was in office because it might have exacted a political toll on him.

Now that he doesn't have to worry about it, he comes preaching to us about how my ever-shrinking budget because of high energy prices is a good thing, but he'll never feel it in any painful way.

[Pepperbelly]

51. Two years ago ...

in this very forum, many of the lefties here were saying how peachy keen rising oil prices were. I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored.

And what you're not getting is why prices are high.

Also, are you pissed off at Bill for making money when he got out of office? You do know that he wasn't born with money. You do know that he worked as Governor of Arkansas for years when the salary was less than 30K when if could have made a quarter mil a year? Should he not be allowed now to make some money? If I were in his spot, I certainly would. Wouldn't you?

And no, he tells everyone he didn't need Bush's tax cuts.

[Seeking Serenity]

52. As an Arkansas resident

I am well-aware of BC's origins.

If oil had been properly taxed, with that revenue going to help the poor, is one thing.

This is just making big oil richer and me poorer.

And BC coming out now, saying this is a good thing, is pissing me off. I don't begrudge him for making money. But it's awfully easy for him to talk about my pain when he won't be feeling it.

[Pepperbelly]

53. yeah ... well ... if you want to be bitter ...

me ... I'm glad for him.

And I don't like the gas prices at all.

Period.

[Seeking Serenity]

54. I think we're talking on parallel tracks

but I'm quite willing to agree to disagree re: BC's putting his own poll numbers ahead of any efforts toward having America plan for the future when he was in office and could have done something about it.

Now it's all just so much bugle oil.

[gulfcoastliberal]

58. Clinton should've released the UFO energy technology.

Call me crazy, but why the hell not - assuming Roswell was real, etc. This fossil fuel madness is literally going to wipe the human race off the panet via the consequences of global warming. Just a tinfoil theory.

:tinfoilhat: :freak:

[YapiYapo]

77. How can you not beleive in Peak oil ?

Peak oil mean for every finite ressource there is ,at one point no matter how much you invest, the production will decline.

That's simple physic.

[nolabels]

63. Yea, I did

And now things are turned upside down and I feel right at home saying we told ya so.

My friend just bought a gas guzzler about 9 months ago then last week marched back on down to trade it off again. He seemed despise the fact of how smug I was looking tooling around in my little four banger and my short drive back and forth to work.

Btw I am anticipating many new bus routes in the near future so I wont even have to drive :P

[anitar1]

62. I think Clinton is a Pos. n/t

[burned]

20. nutshell

"A sitting politician can't answer that question, of course," Mr Clinton explained....

the unspoken bit...

they must lie and obfuscate the truth to remain in power.

[4dsc]

25. Get use to high energy prices

the sad fact that everyones seems to want to ignore is that the era of cheap energy cost is OVER!! SO no amount of moaning and bitching about is going to help bring the cost down.. The party's over!!

[IndianaGreen]

29. Big Dog forgot what it means to be poor or living paycheck-to-paycheck

The well-to-do will complain about the costs of fueling their SUVs, but they can afford the higher gas prices, and they can also afford to park the SUVs in their driveways and drive their Toyota Camry instead.

The poor and the working poor have no such options. High fuel prices do affect their food and shelter in ways the haves could not conceive, or care about.

[Seeking Serenity]

30. Right

Higher energy costs mean higher prices for goods and services from businesses that are also having to adjust for higher energy costs.

There's the real trickle down theory.

Clinton won't notice prices going up on his purchases. The rich never do. The poor can't help but.

[IndyJones]

36. Exactly!

[acmavm]

33. The only people this is good for is the BFEE and the oil companies.

Screw Bill Clinton. OH wait, that's Monica's job. Sort of.

The guy didn't even have the balls to go for the full act of intercourse. Like a blow job absolved him from all guilt.

And that's how he's lived his life. Remember, he didn't inhale either.

Shut up Bill and go see if Poppy can come out to play.

[Vinca]

37. You know what I hate? I hate rich people opining about how

wonderful high gas prices are. Yeah, yeah, yeah in a perfect world we'd be running off wind, sun and hydropower. In the meantime, the high price of gas also means a high price for heating oil and people unable to cough up nearly $3.00 a gallon are going to suffer greatly. Some will die. This will be an interesting winter.

[DBoon]

55. Short price hikes are very bad

They make life difficult for many people, they produce large windfall profits to resource owners, and they disrupt normal economic activity and vital public services.

The free market by itself can adjust for price hikes, but it takes time - a generation or more. Up and down fluctuations are worse than continued moderate increases. If the price might drop tomorrow, why invest in alternative energy now? It takes long term planning to roll out affordable energy efficient cars and to build cities where long distance commuting is not necessary. Part of the planning includes government policies to moderate increases in energy prices.

Finally, you need a good progressive public policy behind this. There is no "magic of the free market" that works by itself. You need incentives to stick with conservation and alternative energy sources. You need a safety net to prevent those who are not affluent from suffering a disproportionate share of the burden.

We had these policies in place in the late 1970's, both the incentives to the private market and the welfare programs to keep poor and working people from bearing an unfair burden.

It is telling that one of President Reagan's first actions was removing the solar collectors President Carter had placed on the white house. The US is seeing the results of 25 years of energy policy neglect.

[DBoon]

57. The high price of oil is not the problem

The low "price" paid to labor is.

In the 1970's there were things called "Cost of Living Increases" (COLA). They were often provided to unionized workers.

We have so completely lost the idea that workers deserve to be fairly compensated that nobody even dares suggest that perhaps wages should increase to meet this unexpected price hike in a necessity.

If one continues to work for the same wage when the price of necessities jumps, one is in effect taking a cut in pay.

[buzzsaw_23]

65. not the low price of labor

so much as the need to earn so much-that is the issue.

We should be able to live on very little money but the rent seekers and wage-slave owners don't like that notion.

Higher wages usually mean greater consumption and that means greater resource use and that means ecological devastation. We are seeing the disastrous results of western concepts of wealth and accumulation every day.

From d.a. levy
"Really"
                     the police try to protect
                     the banks - and everything else
                     is secondary"

[cassiepriam]

64. We must start facing reality nt

[YapiYapo]

75. Energy cost is the biggest problem humany as face

I'm glad clinton understand that and i hope everybody does the same.

We get no mass alternative to fossile fuel !!
Worst most of our food growth rely heavily on fuel (fertilizer).

If we wait until we are in a recession to start looking seriously at alternative.It will be too late.

Can't get worse than that ? Yes it does, Russia may stop exporting fuel after 2010 ,which mean 9 millions barrils per day won't be available anymore (and that considering other country haven't passed their peak)

We don't have many years,if we don't start NOW it will be too late.

[iamjoy]

80. If There Were A Top Ten Liberal Idiots

on some RW site, Clinton would be sure to be on it for this one.

Oh, I see his point, but the counterpoint is the effect high fuel costs have on our whole economy, and how they make it very hard for the poor.

If he was so concerned about the environment and fuel supplies, why didn't he do anything during his Presidency? To my knowledge, he didn't even increase fuel efficiency standards for cars. Alternatives could take years to be available and affordable.

[dweller]

82. Local news tease just now, with smiling, witless head ...

"Why you can expect gasoline at $5.00/gal soon!"

she seemed so happy, i just can't wait til 11pm to learn how i will soon be happy too! wheeeee ...

:popcorn:

dp