Chavez vows to help U.S. poor

[Minstrel Boy]

Chavez vows to help U.S. poor

THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original publication: September 18, 2005)

To thunderous applause and chants in Spanish of "Chavez, friend, the people are with you," Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez strode into the United Methodist Church of St. Paul and St. Andrew yesterday on Manhattan's Upper West Side.

Chavez told the house packed with peace and anti-globalization activists and community and religious leaders that he would soon start to ship heating oil and diesel fuel at below-market prices to poor communities and schools in the United States.

"I felt a love for the Bronx and New York starting with my visit today," he said as he patted his heart under his red shirt, a symbol of the Bolivarian revolution, during the forum on "Poverty and Justice in a Globalized World."

...

Chavez said that by selling heating oil directly to poor communities in the United States, he could save schools, senior centers, hospitals and apartment buildings in poor communities at least a dollar per gallon.... He said he would also look for ways to donate money or give low-interest loans to public institutions in poor communities.

...

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050918/NEWS02/509180305/1019/NEWS03

[gmoney]

1. At least SOME politician cares about the US poor

Shame it had to be one from another country!!

And the crazy thing is, OUR government will never let him do it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Yay! Chavez for president!

[gmoney]

17. 2008 election: Chavez v. Schwarzenegger?

Hoo boy...

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Chavez has youthfulness and a good heart on his side.

wait for it...

[shanti]

84. which pretty much

makes him a target:-(, sad to say. i fear for his life.

[Barkley]

35. 2008: Chavez and Villaraigosa

I hope Senor Chavez makes a West Coast appearance.

UCLA should offer him an honary degree and invite him
to as 2006 commencement speaker.

[genius]

38. Everyone nominate this thread. Chavez cares more about us than Bush.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

2. Good for him.

[NorthernSpy]

3. bless him!

:)

[wake.up.america]

5. What he said is good. Now, let us see action.

[mmonk]

4. Though he is using

shameless politics, it is the RIGHT politics and proper disposition for someone in power to take. May he carry through. It will show the difference between the administration's level (lack of) of stewardship for it's people and those who govern differently.

[Laughing Mirror]

13. Not sure what "shameless politics" is or that Chávez is using them

But a wealthy country that forces so many millions of its citizens into abject poverty and misery and dangerous living and health conditions certainly needs some shaming.

Nobody ever brings up the Bronx, but Chávez did in his speech.

The Bronx is the poorest county in the US with a population above 250,000, and the poverty-stricken Bronx sits right next to the bountiful wealth of the fair county of Manhattan. This is a scandal, a terrible awful shame!

Chávez is using the wealth of his country to extend a hand to the poor people who live in the Bronx and elsewhere in America. What is shameless politics in this?

[Team44Car]

18. I think Chavez truly cares about the people of the world

At the end of the day he will be seen a great man
who tried to change the world

[mmonk]

21. No problem

with what he wants to do. Though I think there is a desire personally for him in the public eye, I do believe he does care about the world's disenfranchised, especially here where there is no need or good reason to disenfranchise anyone. I back Chavez 100%.

[1932]

27. Perhaps he feels an obligation to be in front of the public eye.

Who else would bring these important issues into the public consciousness if not him?

Neoliberalism, greed, oppression, injustice, imperialism all have their voices (and people rarely accuse their spokespeople of cheerleading those causes out of vantiy or other psychological motivation). Anyone who has a different paradigm to offer perhaps feels he or she has a social obligation not just to talk about it over dinner with the family.

[Kralizec]

24. He cares. He is human. nuff said. eom

[calimary]

75. I think your assessment is correct. And Welcome to DU!

He already appears to tower over dubya.

People here are quibbling over price tags, while he steps in and says - here, people need help? I will provide help. PERIOD.

bush makes it embarrassing to be an American. I NEVER thought I would say that. I'm even more embarrassed now than I was during the Clinton sex persecution. That was embarrassing, too, but frankly - also just plain silly. THIS is embarrassing, and pathetic and disgraceful and sad. Not to mention criminal.

[mmonk]

22. I back Chavez 100%,

don't get me wrong. He does care though politics does play in his speech. Didn't mean to detract from his sincereness or efforts.

[hardrainfallin]

26. Our Dems could take a lesson in "shameless politics" from

Chavez. And your comments are RIGHT ON.

I say: roll out the SHAME game.

Bring it on--like a steamroller.

I'm tired of being ASHAMED of being American.

[nick303]

46. nt

I don't know what your basing your ranking off of, but as someone who is frequently in the Bronx, if this is as poor as it gets, we aren't doing so poorly.

[Laughing Mirror]

57. From the New York Times and US Census Bureau, that's where

In some parts of South Bronx poverty rate is more than 50% for children. But if you drive through the wealthy Riverdale section, you might miss all this.

If you have more reliable statistics than the Census Bureau and the Times, by all means share them.

Bronx poverty rate 30.6%
September 4, 2005
In Manhattan, Poor Make 2¢ for Each Dollar to the Rich
By SAM ROBERTS

Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue is only about 60 blocks from the Wagner Houses in East Harlem, but they might as well be light years apart. They epitomize the highest- and lowest-earning census tracts in Manhattan, where the disparity between rich and poor is now greater than in any other county in the country.

That finding, in an analysis conducted for The New York Times, dovetails with other new regional economic research, which identifies the Bronx as the poorest urban county in the country and suggests that the middle class in New York State is being depleted.

The top fifth of earners in Manhattan now make 52 times what the lowest fifth make - $365,826 compared with $7,047 - which is roughly comparable to the income disparity in Namibia, according to the Times analysis of 2000 census data. Put another way, for every dollar made by households in the top fifth of Manhattan earners, households in the bottom fifth made about 2 cents.

. . .

Last week, the Census Bureau reported that even as the economy grew around the nation, incomes stagnated and poverty rates rose. The Bronx, with a poverty rate of 30.6 percent, was outranked only by three border counties in Texas where living costs are lower.

[redqueen]

89. Nice job...

:yourock:

[info being]

73. The news in Slovakia last night regarding Chavez

They ran this story and stated that, "The CIA has plans to assassinate Chavez."

[KitchenWitch]

6. Can we adopt Hugo Chavez as our president?

[OneGrassRoot]

9. I second that..... *S* n/t

[Buns_of_Fire]

11. Alas, no. But we can buy what gas we can afford from CITGO...

Store Locator

[Judi Lynn]

23. Thanks for posting the store locator. Very, very helpful. n/t

[Jamastiene]

7. Hang on. Lemme get my key in the gas tank lock and turn it.

Okay, I'm open wide. I'll take the charity gladly. It might be the only chance I have of making it through community college. With gas prices so high, I'm having to pinch a dollar from Peter to pay Paul right now. I say to President Chavez, thank you. And yes, please, get me out of this mess. I need help. Amazing. A president from another country offers to help those of us who live in poverty in the US while the president of this country says we are not worthy of basic human rights.

[killbotfactory]

8. Maybe now the poor who can't afford heating this winter

won't have to die for it.

[pnorman]

10. George Dubya, The Father Of Our Country, made this statement:

"Speaking for my fellow Americans in the Bronx and elsewhere in this Great Land, I can say with full confidence that WE will NEVER yield to that TYRANT Chavez!! Rather, WE and our wives, children, and household pets, will spend the coming winter WITHOUT any heating oil. Faith-based initiatives will see us through that trying period"

From an undisclosed location, Dick Cheney seconded that with": "Yabetcha! Me too!!"

Halliburton was unavailable for comment

pnorman

[Tight_rope]

80. LOL....Sounds like some stupid shit Dubya would say!

:applause: :rofl:

[Say_What]

12. Buy CITGO!!!

....Venezuela owns Citgo Petroleum Corp., which has 14,000 gas stations and owns eight oil refineries in the United States, none of which were damaged by Hurricane Katrina. Chavez, in his more-than-two-hour speech, said he could afford to sharply reduce Citgo's prices by "cutting out the middle man."

There's a CITGO locator at their website: http://www.citgo.com/CITGOLocator.jsp

[K8-EEE]

51. 7-11 Pumps CITGO!!!

Something I didn't know until recently -- there are no CITGO stations here in LA but I found two 7-11's and verified they pump CITGO!

I DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT THE SAUDIS!!

[bitchkitty]

15. I want to move to Venezuela!

I love Chavez and it's been way too long since we've had a hero!

[hardrainfallin]

25. why does the word "secession" keep popping into my head? n/t

with the "poverty line" being the new "mason-dixon".

[mdelaguna2000]

39. new leader of the Free world?

Looks like we're in the market for one! I agree, a hero.

[bigbrother05]

16. This is great

Maybe some SHAME will come to ole Georgie Boy. Watch the spin begin on Monday, and Chavez watch your back.

[oxbow]

47. no spin necessary. The media is mosty ignoring this, no?

[buzzsaw_23]

20. The Help

does not seem to be coming from the hallowed halls of Congress. So it is up to the people to cast off the yolk. I believe Chavez is not only offering help but is attempting to awaken the torpid Americanos to the reality that they are being hammered upon by the very forces they have so blindly believed in, as long as they had spare change for a few plastic distractions and a pole to hang their flag.


From d.a. levy
"Really"
                     the police try to protect
                     the banks - and everything else
                     is secondary"

[sabra]

28. Chavez will try to improve U.S. relations

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/12675570.htm

Chavez will try to improve U.S. relations

Associated Press

NEW YORK - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Saturday that he would attempt to improve his relations with Washington, which have been rocky in recent months.

"Sometimes I make mistakes, I tend to respond to any official from the government of Mr. Bush who verbally attacks Venezuela," Chavez said during a speech at a Manhattan church, his last public event in New York before heading to Cuba to meet with his close ally Fidel Castro.

Chavez said the Rev. Jesse Jackson and U.S. Rep. Jose Serrano, D-N.Y., who sat with him at the church, had advised him "not to be provoked" by representatives of the U.S. government.

He acknowledged that he has occasionally "gone too far with words" when responding to U.S. officials who criticize his government, and he said his criticism of the Bush administration has sometimes been misunderstood as attacks against the American public.

"I love the people of the United States," he said.

[bemildred]

29. Chavez vows to help U.S. poor

Chavez said that by selling heating oil directly to poor communities in the United States, he could save schools, senior centers, hospitals and apartment buildings in poor communities at least a dollar per gallon.

Venezuela owns Citgo Petroleum Corp., which has 14,000 gas stations and owns eight oil refineries in the United States, none of which were damaged by Hurricane Katrina. Chavez, in his more-than-two-hour speech, said he could afford to sharply reduce Citgo's prices by "cutting out the middle man."

He said he would also look for ways to donate money or give low-interest loans to public institutions in poor communities.

Chavez was in New York to attend the United Nations summit and celebrations of the organization's 60th anniversary.

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050918/NEWS02/509180305/1018/NEWS02

[bemildred]

30. Chavez claims US has “Balboa” plan to invade Venezuela

He also said that the recent hurricane Katrina tragedy had shown US public opinion and the world that United States “needs help”, help to combat poverty, to help significant numbers of American citizens who have been excluded from the mainstream of society.

Mr. Chavez also accused the Bush administration of “double talk”, combating world wide terrorism, “a scourge which we condemn”, but at the same time protecting terrorists such as a former CIA agent which escaped from Venezuela where he was jailed for his involvement in the blowing up of a commercial Cuban airplane killing 70 people.

Furthermore an evangelist preacher Pat Robertson and “close friend of the White House” openly called on the world to kill an elected leader, the president of Venezuela, and “that is an international law crime”.

During the interview Chavez offered to send ABC maps and other documents regarding the US Balboa plan to invade Venezuela but for security reasons refused to reveal his sources.

http://www.falkland-malvinas.com/Detalle.asp?NUM=6456

[Justyce]

31. A leader who is admitting

he might be mistaken about something?? It's been 5 years since we've had that around here... I'm glad he's yelling everything from the rooftops though -- keeping the attention of the world on the situation definitely ups his chances. Scary what our country has become.

[madokie]

32. You go HUGO, lots of us love you too.

[BayCityProgressive]

33. viva Chavez, Castro, and Lula

The Axis of Good.

[Barkley]

34. Anybody got pictures of Chavez in NYC?

[Minstrel Boy]

43. Here's one I found this morning:

Chavez talks to Congressman Jose Serrano (D) after a visit to The Point Community Center in South Bronx, New York, September 17, 2005


There should be more by now. I'll see what I can find.

[nothometoday]

36. Thought he was supposed to evil

or something...Why does Bushco hate him so much? I'd like to educate myself more..Any good websites where I could start? All I see is he has been nothing but helpful during this whole Katrina mess.

[katinmn]

45. * hates him for his oil reserves.

President Chimp thinks he's entitled to all the world's oil.

[Peace Patriot]

49. Here's a good web site on Venezuela...

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/

Their embassy site is also good. Don't have that url handy. Will look for it and post it below.

[rman]

61. websites

www.democracynow.org (search for Chavez and/or Venezuela)
www.gregpalast.com (search for Chavez and/or Venezuela)
www.venezuelaanalysis.com
www.chavezthefilm.com

[genius]

37. I want to start a Presidential Exchange Program

[satya]

48. LOL! I'm with you. n/t

[Buns_of_Fire]

40. BushCo hates him... Pat Robertson hates him... Wants to help the poor...

Hey, his credentials seem solid to me.

[electricray]

41. I fucking love that guy.

Chavez is my hero and I don't care who calls me a socialist.

[skooooo]

42. Someone who talks to the people...

finally!

[all.of.me]

44. this guy has done more for us in this crisis than anyone!

i'm crazy about him! gwb is not?!

[Peace Patriot]

50. The big difference between Venezuela and the United States:

Both vote on electronic voting machines, but the Venezuelans have OPEN SOURCE CODE--that is, anyone can review how they are tabulating the votes--whereas, we have Bushite companies (mainly Diebold and ES&S) tabulating our votes with SECRET, PROPRIETARY SOURCE CODE--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it (not that they would care--bunch of corrupt SOBs).


Open source code = good president.

Secret, proprietary source code = bad president.


It's simple, really.

(Not so simple to get the corrupt SOBs who purchased these election theft machines out of office--we'll be working on that one for some time, I think--but it ain't rocket science to hold TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections.)

[sam sarrha]

52. does that mean they are taking Refugee's from China outsoursing..??

I am ready to immigrate to Venezuela... Yahoo!!:bounce:

[shadowknows69]

53. Why can't we demand a press conference with our President

and ask him why the Prez of Venezuela cares more about us than he does?

[rman]

60. Why does the "independent" press not ask that question of *?

[BSDRebel]

70. Let's not get too carried away, DUers

For the record, I'm a Leftist progressive who loves Chavez and enjoys when he "sticks it to the U.S." I also love what he's doing in Venezuela.

That being said, I'm not as naive to think he is genuinely making all these pronouncements because he loves us. There is a certain measure of political calculation going on. Now, I don't fault him too much because of the good he does, and because his professed "loving of the U.S. poor" is at the very least, a bluff with some good intent.

But, let's not start thinking he's the new Messiah. he's just the President of another country.

I support him. I admire him. But I don't worship him.

[bitchkitty]

86. You have a point. but still.....

I need a hero - too many fairy tales in my youth. Chavez has all the right ingredients.

I'm not so sure that he is insincere when he says he loves the poor. At least I hope he means it.

[Judi Lynn]

87. Anyone who has been through the Bush-supported , watched Bush

bank-rolling the opposition, even entertaining them in the Oval Office, sending financial support to people who organized the strike, moving huge Navy ships to Curacao, constantly hurling filthy insults and condemnations at him to other world leaders throughout Latin America, plotting assassination attempts, for which he says they have evidence is definitely someone I hold in highest esteem.

Other men, like the corrupt assholes who have turned on the poor of their country for promises of American funding from our right-wing Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, even burning down their villages, killing the citizens in indescribably fiendish, hideous ways designed to terrorize the population, would have been available for seduction a long time ago. Hugo Chavez has put his people first.

I can't see one thing wrong with this man, and it's time for our violent, greedy MEpublicans to butt OUT of these peoples' lives.

[bitchkitty]

90. So when do we leave? ;)

If I were 20 years younger, I'd have been there already.

Better yet, when do Americans pour into the streets and say "enough"?I love how when the right wing coup took their country, Venezuelans poured into the streets and took it BACK.

[Downtown Hound]

54. No wonder Bush hates him so much

He has lots of oil and doesn't kiss chimpy's ass all the time. And he has all these strange ideas about helping the poor. Sounds like a real threat to national security if I ever saw one. (The last sentence was sarcasm).

[roguevalley]

55. this man forgot more about public relations than the fuckers in

washington ever remembered. Amazingly smart, amazingly kind. I don't care if he is spitting in bush's eyes, he is highlighting not only the failure and unwillingness of our government to help our own people, he is helping people.

[ngGale]

56. Go Chavez...

shining a light on US poverty.:loveya:

[Voltaire99]

58. Why can't we have a Democrat with 1/2 the vision of this man?

Wake me up when the Hillarys and Bidens and Kerrys are history and we have our own Chavez at the helm.

Enough of these quislings. Time for real leaders!

[0007]

59. Someboby cares.

[Minstrel Boy]

62. Spreading the gospel according to Chavez

Spreading the gospel according to Chavez

Sept 19, The Globe and Mail

NEW YORK -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez looked fully at home in the pulpit of Manhattan's Church of St. Paul and St. Andrew as he preached the gospel of social justice so widely embraced by North America's liberal Christians.

Fingering a crucifix that he had pulled from his breast pocket, Mr. Chavez assured his audience that he is no godless Communist, but an "authentic Christian" who is merely following the biblical injunction to serve the poor.

...

The Venezuelan leader was preceded in the pulpit by a United Methodist minister and a Roman Catholic priest, who recounted Mr. Chavez' s efforts to deliver literacy programs, health care and basic necessities to the poor, and the United States's historic support of brutal right-wing dictators in the region.

The stocky, 51-year-old leader then continued his wooing of the American people, and New Yorkers in particular. "Starting today, you know that I fell in love. I fell in love with the Bronx, and with New York," he told his rapturous audience. "For the first time, I have met the soul of the American people."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050919/CHAVEZ19/TPInternational/Americas

[skooooo]

63. so where do i get a chavez tshirt?

[Dhalgren]

64. Me, too! And I want a Chavez bumper-sticker, as well...

[The Backlash Cometh]

65. Chavez is only saying the truth.

If you're a REAL Christian, and assuming our government is a true honest broker, you'd be more in line with following your Christian faith by supporting a Democratic government, than a Republican government.

Republicans have turned their backs on blind charitable donations. They give to their churches, which in turn are very selective about who they spread it to. I'm always shocked when a Republican says that he is a charitable person because he helped out someone who goes to his congregation. That's not charity. That's a calculated investment.

[Say_What]

68. Here you go...

more at the website.

http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby/802058

[GayCanuck]

66. I feel quesy

over any mixing of religion and politics.

[BSDRebel]

72. normally, i'd agree.

But you know, if the guy's advocating loving the poor, healing the sick, and doing unto others as you would want them to do unto you, how could I disagree with him?

[SpiralHawk]

67. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell Echo Chavez's Christian Message

And Repudiate Their Former Hate- and Fear-Filled "Way of Materialism."

Not.

[terip64]

69. Chavez in NYC: If you can make it there, you'll make it anywhere...

I find this very encouraging!

[BSDRebel]

71. finally,

A politician who understands the true message of Christ.

Follow the Golden Rule and help the poor.

I've been so turned off by modern Christianity because of the actions of its most famous heads (Catholic leaders, Protestant loonies like Robertson, etc.). I've been ashamed to call myself one, but sometimes, I just wonder how can Christianity be used as the ideology to justify so much war and so much idiocy.

It's refreshing to see a politician reclaim the true meaning and use it as an ideology of love and giving.

[AspenRose]

77. Bush is supposedly a Methodist, yet...

"The Venezuelan leader was preceded in the pulpit by a United Methodist minister and a Roman Catholic priest...."

...and I'm willing to bet the priest was Jesuit....

Bush ignores the UMC mission of social justice and helping the poor.

John Edwards=example of a good Methodist
Bush=pseudomethodist

[info being]

74. In a time of talk, action is powerful

Hopefully his actions will cut through the BS that we are fed every day.

[AspenRose]

76. Wow

That is most impressive.

[DrunkenMaster]

78. Democracy Now! Broadcast an Interview w/ Chavez today

and it's great. I don't speak Spanish, but "Chomsky" is the same in any language...I nearly sprayed coffee all over my cat when I heard it. He was referring to NC's argument that there are two modern superpowers: the US and world public opinion. Beautiful!

[Minstrel Boy]

83. Here's a link to it:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/19/1336214

The U.S. people have a major role to play to solve, to save this planet. Because we're talking about the government. I was reading recently, Noam Chomsky, I read him very frequently. And in one of his most recent books, Chomsky, I would like very much to shake hands with Chomsky. I've been reading him for a while. I admire him enormously. The name of the book is “Hegemony or Survival” its what Rosa Luxemburg used to say, “socialism or barbarism.” We changed to Capitalism, and we’re going back to the caveman. Chomsky in his book, he says that two superpowers in this world and I was really shocked by that idea. I think he’s right after all. I think the key to save the world is one super power, this government? And it’s military power? Might? Fear? Technological might space power, economic might and so on. But what is the other superpower that could perhaps stop this government. That could even put an end to imperialism so we can have a true democracy to help the peoples of the world.

[Tight_rope]

79. For Chavez I'm willing to change the Constitution!

Chavez for President of the United States. Chavez would certainly be more affective then Arnold.

I believe Chavez is competent enough to run both countries at the same time. :patriot:

[earth mom]

81. Chavez is awesome, he's my hero! eom

[Minstrel Boy]

82. "The communist menace reappears in South America"!

From The American "Thinker" today:

The communist menace reappears in South America

When the Berlin Wall was torn down, the Soviet Union collapsed, and China pursued market-led development, it seemed safe to assume that the threat of aggressive communism toppling national dominoes and dominating an entire continent was gone forever. But while America has focused its attention elsewhere, communism is on the move in South America, and the shape of a serious plan to dominate our neighboring continent has become evident. Even worse, our natural ally to resist such domination is strangely uninterested in defending its turf.

On a scale not seen since the 1960s, Cuba's Fidel Castro and his new ally, Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, are aggressively seeking influence all through South America. The one power that could stop them, Brazil, is strangely asleep. As a regional power, South America's largest, most economically powerful - and most ambitious - country is proving to be a disappointment, and this couldn't happen at a worse time.

Brazil’s western neighbor Bolivia is about to hold a national election on Dec. 4 that could bring a third member to the Castro-Chavez axis to its leadership, a Marxist coca-growers' leader named Evo Morales. Castro and Chavez are working hard to ensure that he wins. Meanwhile, Bolivia's neighbors are subject to an intense subversion campaign as a result. How such events are resolved may determine the direction of the continent for decades

...

Morales and his sponsors, Castro and Chavez, have no intention of stopping there. Once Bolivia falls, Paraguay will be dealing with refugees, flows of capital flight, and the possibility of fallout from a civil war next door in Bolivia. Natural gas energy flows, which can only be transported by pipes across land, could be interrupted, affecting Brazil and Argentina severely. Whoever can control Paraguay will control the energy and trade routes from oil-rich Bolivia to Brazil and Argentina. The two largest countries in South America could be held hostage to energy blackmail.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4832

[Judi Lynn]

85. There's an endless supply of these maggot propagandists.

Surely their right-wing mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging followers must suspect, from time to time, these people are lying to them.

I pray for the day people are going to start ignoring them. Not only has our country used far more than its share of the world's available fuel, it has also, long ago, taken far more than forgivable amounts of the world's innocents' blood.

It's time to back off. Leave these people the #### alone, mind our own business, if it's not too much to ask, for CHRIST'S sake.

[killbotfactory]

91. "Whoever can control Paraguay"

We are setting up shop in Paraguay.

Great.

Why does America hate democracy?

[UrbScotty]

88. So THAT's why Pat wanted to take him out, huh? (nt)