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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:16 PM
Original message
Merkel ahead in tight German vote
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=09961918f7145fa1&cat=c08dd24cec417021

Angela Merkel's German conservatives have won the election by just three seats, falling short of a governing majority, provisional results show.
The Christian Democrats (CDU) won 35.2% of the vote, or 225 seats, against 34.3% for Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats (SPD).

Mrs Merkel is unlikely to be able to form her preferred coalition and may have to join with the centre-left SPD.

Mr Schroeder has not admitted defeat and insists he can stay as chancellor.

He said he could envisage a grand coalition of the two largest parties, but only if he was its leader.

PROVISIONAL ELECTION RESULTS
CDU/CSU: 35.2% (225 seats)
SPD: 34.3% (222)
Free Democrats: 9.8% (61)
Left Party: 8.7% (54)
Greens: 8.1% (51)


In pictures: Results come in
Germany now faces days and possibly weeks of political uncertainty as the parties negotiate a coalition.

more...

Merkel won but by a thread this is a country divided!!!
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Bumblebee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. yes, just like us...
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Nope, not like us at all. For one thing, Germany has real elections,
and wouldn't put up for a minute with Bushite corporations owning and controlling the counting of their votes with SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, no paper trail, no recounts, no audits possible, and the falsification of exit poll results by corporate news monopolies. They would have a revolution. They really value democracy over there.

Paper ballots, which are placed into a clear glass jar that sits on a table in clear view of everyone, and which are then counted in public while anyone may watch, with the entire election checked for fraud and verified by honest, independent exit polls. Any discrepancy with the exit polls triggers vigorous protests and a recount.

A very, very big contrast with what happens in the U.S., which can hardly be dignified with the word "election," it is so non-transparent, unverifiable and corrupt--and so completely unrepresentative of majority opinion. (*See below.)

For another thing, Germany's political "center" is far to the left of ours. Germany has a fine combination of capitalism and socialism, in which all men and women are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights to truly fair wages, merciful free or cheap medical care, decent vacations, family leave, and all manner of initiatives for the common good--none of which have harmed Germany's work ethic, but instead have created a country where justice, fairness and peacefulness are actually happening.

Merkel won't be able to undo much of this (if she even wants to). She will be heading a government (if she wins) which is a world leader in worker protections, responsible taxation and programs aimed at the common welfare of German society.

It's as if the two factions of the Democratic Party (in its heyday) formed the entire political spectrum: left and far left.

And I strongly suspect that any German financial troubles are caused by the capitalists--who are itching to loot the middle class, as ours have succeeded in doing--or by manipulations of the Bush junta or the global corporate predators with whom they associate.

Why blame the productive and happy workers? Sounds like a crock to me.

The Bush junta hates Schroeder and German socialism. They will never forgive Shroeder's antiwar stance, and they loathe ANY example of fair sharing of the wealth (i.e., Venezuela, for instance). They have every reason to harm Schroeder and the ordinary people who support him--and enormous financial wherewithal (most of it looted from us) with which to inflict harm, support greedy elites, and even destroy the German economy.

-----

And what makes you think that Americans are as closely divided as Germany is right now? Name your sources.

Warning: I have extensive sources that establish, without any question, that the great majority of Americans are progressive in their views and anti-Bush. There are a wide range of issue polls, for instance, that show that the great majority of Americans disapprove of every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, way up in the 60% to 70% range--across the board in all polls, for well over a year. You name it. The Iraq war. Torture policy. Social Security. The deficit. Women's rights. The majority of Americans greatly favor the progressive side on EVERY major issue. In fact, we have broad progressive consensus in this country. But we also have grave disempowerment and, above all, DISENFRANCHISEMENT of the American majority.

The only statistic--and I mean the ONLY one--that supports a 50/50 (or near 50/50) split (in favor of Bush) is the "official results" of the 2004 election, which were derived from Diebold's and ES&S's SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it. (Not that they would care--bunch of corrupt S.O.B.'s, wining and dining and being lavishly lobbied at the Beverly Hilton this August, sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia--peeeeeee-uuuuuuu!).

All other information points to strong dislike of Bush and his policies, and to election fraud and illegitimate rule:

The exit polls said Kerry won. (TV networks suppressed that data on election night, but later coughed it up, under pressure.)

Analysis of the exit polls establishes an impossible skew to Bush in the "official results."

The pre-election polls said that Bush could not win. (--Zogby).

The Dem grass roots blew the Bushites away in new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40.

New voters, independents and former Nader voters all voted very heavily for Kerry--as, of course, did Gore 2000 voters. (Who else is there? Karl Rove's "invisible" get out the vote campaign? Har-har.)

Biggest turnout in history (--always favors Democrats).

Intense poor, black and Dem vote suppression in Ohio, and purges of black voters in Florida, and of masses of black and brown voters nationwide (--Greg Palast and other sources), so that the REAL margin of victory for Kerry, if those illegally prevented from voting were counted, is higher than his exit poll 3%, at least 5% or higher.

Bush's personal approval rating was a dismal 49% on the very day of his inauguration--an unheard of low (no "rallying round the president" there)--was miserable throughout 2004 before the election, and has plummeted dramatically to the low 40s or lower since the election.

All of the above polls--exit polls, issue polls, and popularity polls--are weighted towards Republicans and rightwing views, so the numbers against Bush and all Bush policy are probably even greater than these reported polls reflect.

We are not closely divided. The pro-Bush, pro-rightwing view is a distinct minority. 40% at best. (--with the sole stat giving him 50+% coming from Diebold and ES&S.)

We progressives are the majority--indeed, the great majority--but we can barely be heard; our votes are stolen or changed, or thrown out (by secret programming), or we are not permitted to vote; and the war profiteering corporate news monopolies don't heed their own polls, and continue to trumpet minority rightwing views way out of proportion to their numbers.

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sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. she didn't really win
Her party has a plurality, but the center-left parties have the majority.
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Looks like the fringe left ( the far left in general not the German
party) has screwed themselves out of any power in yet another western country. First USA, Nader green party, then dozens of fringe idiot left parties prevented a fine French Socialist from becoming President, now Germany. At least with Germany they are not likely to get a full dose of warmed over Reaganomics and Neocon Neoliberalism. That is unless Merkel acts like Bush and just steam rolls regardless of this election outcome. Which is a good possibility. Despite the tight results she is already saying "mandate". It took Bush to get to his second term to start using that word. All this because The SDP was forced to make some minor adjustments to the Welfare State which appear to be working. Enjoy Fraulein Bushette you stupid fringe lefties.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. She's Thatcherite.
And her rise is due in no small measure to Germany reeling economically.

A little time spent informing yourself, my dear confused centrist, would drastically improve your outbursts--perhaps even your politics.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Sounds more like some blame game going on
Yea, the root of all evil is them darn environmentalists :crazy:

Btw, I think to keep em on the straight and narrow that all slaves should have a daily flogging
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Oh you use Rove speak- "blame game." Who said anything
about environmentalist. The split in Germany was about economic reforms.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. If the shoe fits...........
Really I was just kind of being cynical, with a little :sarcasm: mixed in. Some not so close to he issues might also be thinking it's just more divide and conquer. You can bet some multinationals are happy the country is at odds with its self. As long as non-cooperation is a way of enhancing ones personal fortunes it all will continue.
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. A little time spent taking a serious look at your philosophy might
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 10:45 AM by Prodemsouth
help you, my dear sad powerless defeatist elitist fringe leftist. Look at the economic figures just prior to the elections the reforms were working. Centrist?? I don't think so. Just call me a progressive that believes we do better when we have the power to govern. Call me a progressive who thinks victory is not a bad thing.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. "It took Bush to get to his second term to start using that word."-Prodems
And what is your opinion of Bush using that word ("mandate") with regard to an election in which the votes were "counted" by his buds at Diebold and ES&S, using SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code?

Sounds to me as if you should aim your epithetical power ("stupid fringe lefties") at some bigger, beefier targets, of truly evil mien, rather than at small political parties of especially committed progressives.

In any case, in a real democracy, dissent is an opportunity for widening the political discussion, for including things that are very, very important--like the environment, or the very poor--that may get unwisely shoved aside by the majority. It's called coalitions--which is how the German and most European systems work. Small parties don't deny anyone victory. They can be included in the government.

Only in the U.S. do we stifle and sneer at dissent and exclude it from the political discussion.
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Oh not me, I never take on Bush. My truck has been keyed and
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 10:52 AM by Prodemsouth
house has been egged for anti- Bush stickers and signs. I also have a problem with people claiming they are progressive and then stabbing friends in the back and I will continue to post about it when I want to. From the post I see that have been left for me, it looks like fringe lefties have their own problems with dissent. Like the right wing authoritarians they seem to be ultra sensitive to criticism. Look at the flames when one of their darlings has a negative post appear on the board. Yet they are free to bash the DLC without a reply. I have my problems with the DLC but would prefer any DLC President to Bush. There is a differnce. Clinton was DLC.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. If the SPD and Greens would form a coallition with the PDS, they'd
have more than enough seats to rule without the CDU
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Nevermind that, the PDS is too wicked hardcore for coallitions!
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. uh, oh ...

"fringe" left, uhuh. I'll tell you what the Left party will enjoy: staggering support in the face of business suits who would always tell us (do for some fourty years now) that "adjustments" need to be made. That humanity needs to be defended by throwing bombs at people. That the fatherland needs to be defended in the Hindukush. Yeah, right.

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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. There is still one providence that needs to vote in the next few weeks
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gorekerrydreamticket Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Yes, one province will decide who the new fuhrer is...shades of Florida!
n/t
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Hav Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. .
Actually, they will most probably not be the deciding factor.
And "fuhrer" really is quite an unfortunate expression for the German chancellor ;).
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. I am amazed at the resurgence of the former East German Communist Party
Way to go PDS!
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
14. Interesting to hear the BBC
framing this as a win for the party with the largest number of seats. It is not very subtle - leading with quotes from the CDU for instance, and letting correspondents like Mark Mardell opine that Shroeder didn't really win despite "waving his arms around" and "giving thumbs ups".
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
15. I think someone will play ball with the "New Left" party
They have too many seats for the main two parties to ignore. I imagine eventually the Social Democrats will take them into a coalition. I say this knowing next to nothing about the intricacies of German politics, other than coalitions eventually get put together.

I just can't see a grand coalition of the main two parties working. These can work in emergencies (e.g. wartime), but they seem like strange beasts otherwise.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. I Think The CDU Will Force Merkel Out
Stoiber is pissed he wanted the nomination and sees Angela as a total failure as she LOST seats in Bavaria. Gerhard will wait out the storm. I do not see him remaining as Chancellor but the SPD party will form a stronger coalition dumping the CDU off the gravy train.

Merkel was a poor excuse for a fucking disgrace named Thatcher. I thank my buddy Mathius from Dresden for this insight.
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