NYT: Challenged by Creationists, Museums Answer Back

[DeepModem Mom]

Challenged by Creationists, Museums Answer Back
By CORNELIA DEAN
Published: September 20, 2005


ITHACA, N.Y. - Lenore Durkee, a retired biology professor, was volunteering as a docent at the Museum of the Earth here when she was confronted by a group of seven or eight people, creationists eager to challenge the museum exhibitions on evolution.

They peppered Dr. Durkee with questions about everything from techniques for dating fossils to the second law of thermodynamics, their queries coming so thick and fast that she found it hard to reply.

After about 45 minutes, "I told them I needed to take a break," she recalled....That encounter and others like it provided the impetus for a training session here in August. Dr. Durkee and scores of other volunteers and staff members from the museum and elsewhere crowded into a meeting room to hear advice from the museum director, Warren D. Allmon, on ways to deal with visitors who reject settled precepts of science on religious grounds.

Similar efforts are under way or planned around the country as science museums and other institutions struggle to contend with challenges to the theory of evolution that they say are growing common and sometimes aggressive.

One company, called B.C. Tours "because we are biblically correct," even offers escorted visits to the Denver Museum of Science and Nature. Participants hear creationists' explanations for the exhibitions....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/science/20doce.html

[calico1]

1. Good.

And you know that if these people went there in the first place it was with the intention of starting something.

[glitch]

105. Maybe we should arrange tours to their churches during sermons

with groups of bitter evolutionists arguing with their preachers. Or chant outside "Evolve Now!"

Actually, I do think it's a good idea to try and educate these people, as long as it doesn't divert resources from people who come to museums in good faith.

[ret5hd]

2. "Participants hear creationists' explanations for the exhibitions...."

oh jeebus, how boring:

"god did it."
"no, god did it."
"yes, god did it."
"god did that too."
"god also did that"
"god did it."
"no, god did it."
"yes, god did it."
"god did that too."
"god also did that"
"god did it."
"no, god did it."
"yes, god did it."
"god did that too."
"god also did that"
"god did it."
"no, god did it."
"yes, god did it."
"god did that too."
"god also did that"

[SaveElmer]

4. That is too funny...

Exactly what my in-laws are like!!!

[NuttyFluffers]

88. a kid farts *pppbbbbttt* "did god do that, too?"

:crazy:

[SammyBlue]

92. LOL. . .no, to quote Family Guy:

"You're a bad kid and that's concentrated evil coming out the back of you!"

[ellenfl]

109. next time ask them 'who did god?' eom

[atommom]

3. Arrgh. The wingnuts have been emboldened some more!

I find their rejection of science infuriating, especially since they won't accept criticism of their creationist views. The arrogance ... :banghead:

[oxbow]

94. If they reject science, they should stop using it

If they get sick, they shouldn't go to a doctor. That medicine is the result of genetic and other scientific research. It's also a case of man stopping God's will if you stop HIS germs from doing their work. He wants you to suffer, remember fundies?

If they get raped or worse, they shouldn't use DNA testing to find the bad guy. That's the same DNA tests that prove that evolution is real.

Stop picking and choosing. Either listen to what science has to say about our world and take advantage of that knowledge, or don't.

[DarkTirade]

111. Some of the more psycho ones actually DO that.

[silvermachine]

5. Lots of wars these days...

...let's see, war on terror, war on porn, war on science, war on the poor, war on dissent. Where will it end?

[Ben Ceremos]

9. I hope it ends with

a War on Reactionaries. A real war, the kind they like to foist on others.

[silvermachine]

12. It might come down to that...

...people can only be oppressed for so long until they fight back. Right? Anybody out there? Awake? Sentient?

[shadowknows69]

57. Plenty sentient

maybe God did it maybe he didn't but I'm sick of all of it. Keep your bible out of my science.

[obreaslan]

108. You just made me think of a bumper sticker slogan....

DON'T ASK ME TO BELIEVE IN
INTELLIGENT DESIGN,
AND I WON'T ASK YOU TO EVOLVE!

[shadowknows69]

114. awesome

Send me one

[calimary]

22. Sign this lifelong Catholic up for that one! These people make me

want to run screaming into the night. Honest-to-Pete... they drive me NUTS! Hopefully, "thinking" like theirs will eventually be headed for extinction.

I will say this: These are the people who will be FIRST to scream about how our education system is going to hell and our children isn't learning and our country, scholastically, is falling behind, and has lost our leadership in discoveries and innovations, and the rest of it. They'll probably blame the liberals. And by the time the brain drain out of here is noticeable to them, it'll be too late. They won't be happy til they've rendered us a country of knuckle-draggers.

BTW - Welcome to DU!

Help us fight off these people!!! This is one of the things I was afraid of when bush "won" last fall. The religiosos and other Buy-bull extremists would feel emboldened by his "victory" and claim credit for it, and regard it as a blank check to run amok all over our cultural landscape.

[SaveElmer]

6. Should not be too hard for a scientist to refute....

I'd have more respect for creationists if they would just admit it can't be proven scientifically, and just say they believe God did it through his divine will....and leave it at that. That they try and shoehorn it into science is dishonest and purely political.

The refutation to the 2nd law of thermodynamics is quite simple as I understand it. The law only applies to closed systems...which earth is not. And even in closed systems, there is random order from disorder...(lightening etc)

And remember...they are not dinosaurs...but "Jesus Horses"

[atommom]

8. Jesus horses?

:rofl:

I want to see some new Bible illustrations reflecting that, then! (Which dinosaur would Jesus ride?)

[SaveElmer]

11. Obvious...Jesus is the King right?

Rex is latin for King I think...

WOuld have to be Tyrannosaurus Rex

[atommom]

14. The T. Rex would have made short work of the money-changers in

the temple! For that matter, it's hard to imagine that anyone could have gotten close enough to arrest Jesus, when he had that holy Tyrannosaur around...

(Once again, I wish I had some illustrations!)

[SaveElmer]

15. Yeah me too...

It was on a Saturday Night live sketch...the news portion I think.

They ahd a graphic that was pretty funny!

[atommom]

20. Rats, I missed that sketch. If dinos and people really walked together,

there must thousands of untold stories like that. We should start writing the new history books now! :evilgrin:

[Ezlivin]

58. How about dinosaur prints alongside human footprints?

That's what's available in the Paluxy River bed near Glen Rose, Texas.

Naturally, real scientists have discredited the Paluxy evidence.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

74. I remember that one.

"Dinosaurs will now be referred to as 'Jesus Horses.'" :)

[FlaGranny]

25. It is not hard for a scientist to refute

but it is impossible for a closed mind to accept it. You could explain every scientific finding to them in great detail. There is no way it could change their minds. They've already decided - their minds are closed.

[SaveElmer]

39. Really...it;s not them you have to convince...

It's the people who are too busy or apathetic to look into it. They hear "Theory of Evolution," and "Theory of Intelligent Design," and they simply think that there are two scientific explanations. So in polls they say why not teach both. It there was an open discussion of it, and the Creationism/Intelligent Design people were exposed for who they are, people might understand what the danger is. It is these people that have to be informed. The fundies have their mind made up and it makes no difference to them what you say!

[FlaGranny]

50. You are right.

I wasn't thinking of the busy and apathetic. Sometimes I expect people to be more informed and knowledgeable than they really are.

[October]

76. Yup. They don't understand scientific theory vs. theory /nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. Hard to refute people starting from faith, essence of closed minds.

The essence of science is to change theories to match facts.

The essence of faith is that facts be damned.

[MGKrebs]

70. And whatever happened to "faith"?

I always thought the power of religion came from the idea that people believed it WITHOUT proof, i.e., on faith. Why would they want/need to try to justify their "faith" with science? Not only is faith not science, but science isn't faith either.

[DarkTirade]

112. No, they're just another animal

that Moses couldn't fit on his ark.

[Gman]

7. At some point it became OK to be ignorant/uneducated and stupid

The ignorant/uneducated and stupid people are being egged on to assert their God-given right to be ignorant/uneducated and stupid. They're being told it's OK to not try to learn and therefore reason, in fact they believe God has not given them the right to learn and to reason. And they're being told they have to stand up for their rights. The words "faith must never conflict with reason" fly over their head like a 50 caliber bullet while they look up and say, "What was that?"

[DeepModem Mom]

13. Excellent post, Gman! nt

[FlaGranny]

27. How do they

explain God giving humans intelligence, but not wanting them to use it?

How do they explain God giving humans sexuality. and then asking them to curb it?

It makes me think God is either not too bright or is very sadistic.

[MARALE]

33. Why would God make Gay people

If he did not have a plan for them. It has been proven to be in their genes, not just a choice, so why did God make them that way? Why would Jesus say to love the least of men, and have so much hate for people? I just don't understand so called Christians sometimes.

Well said Flagranny, I always seem to resonate with your postings.

[intheflow]

97. Tsk, tsk, tsk!

"It has been proven to be in their genes..."

There you go using science again to spread your lies! Jesus was all about accepting lepers and prostitutes, but Paul said that Jesus said gays were to be shunned at all costs.

:sarcasm:

[cliss]

116. Who says god doesn't have a plan for gays?

They're goin to hell! HELL YEAH!:evilgrin: :sarcasm:

'Why would Jesus say to love the least of men, and have so much hate for people?'

Were you trying to say that Jesus has "so much hate for people"?
Please elaborate.

[defiant1]

106. Or....

not there at all.

[brainshrub]

10. I often challenge museum curators over the "science" of evolution.

As a Pastafarian myself, I believe that the world was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Equal time should be given to all belief systems.

Yarg!

http://www.venganza.org/

[H2O Man]

17. Ha!

When I read about this in the NYT, I thought that the museums should simply have the people removed by the police. They really do not have the right to disrupt the atmosphere in the museum. If I went in and started a fight, insisting that Chef Boyardee died for the museum staff's sins, or that the FSM indeed created the earth, I am certain I would be removed. Probably hospitalized, too.

[smirkymonkey]

79. This is my favorite....

" You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature."

[Runcible Spoon]

89. I TOO WAS TOUCHED BY HIS NOODLY APPENDAGE!

Ramen, my fellow.

[atommom]

16. I suppose this means that we're now welcome to bring up evolution

in their churches. We need at least a dozen evolutionists to pepper them with technical questions and thoroughly disrupt their sermon. I'm sure they wouldn't mind, since they use the same tactics in museums now.

[KansDem]

34. Good idea...!!!

I'm sure a 45-minute disscussion with 7 or 8 evolutionists asking questions would be welcomed at any service!

[mitchum]

77. An excellent idea!

[genieroze]

18. I'm open minded about intelligent design, when someone with intelligence

can show some facts about it,...........................................
........................................................................
.......still waiting....................................................
Oh I know,............nevermind. That would just prove these fundies are the missing link with all of their knuckles dragging and large protruding foreheads with small brains and even smaller minds. These are the same people who think the sun revolves around the flat earth and they are the center of the universe. That all those shinning objects in the sky are little beams of light with no other flat planets around them with possible life more intelligent then they could hope to ever be.

[reprobate]

45. Actually, those shining objects in the sky are really holes in the black

sphere surrounding us thru which the light of heaven shines on us.

[genieroze]

82. That's a good one, I'll remember that. lol

[wildcat78]

85. You miss the point....

It's a miracle. And, because it's a miracle they don't have to offer supportive reasoning.

These people drive me nuts!

[bballny]

19. It seems to me

that there is a direct correlation between the stifling of a culture and the strength of religion in that culture. Think about western civilization and the dark ages and when western civilization started to grow. Also consider how advanced the middle east was and their descent into a primitive state and the growth of Islam. Just a thought.

[Demeter]

21. Our Culture Isn't Stifled--It's Corrupt

there is no lack of culture--but it's the culture of trash. You wouldn't want to hang it on a wall, read it out loud, or keep it for your grandchildren. It is useless the minute it is foisted on the public, and ugly. Form and function don't exist. It isn't even emotional. You cannot expect it do make you feel better, work with expectation of reward, or actually learn anything.

But Goddess help us, there's no end of it!

[Bridget Burke]

67. The Middle East (& parts of Europe, Africa & Asia) were NOT ....

Stifled by Islam. Internal conflicts, Mongol conquests & Western imperialism helped turn a great civilization inward & backward (in some cases).

The High Middle Ages weren't all that bad, either.

History & culture are interesting & complex.

[bpilgrim]

23. sign of the * times

:scared:

peace

[jayfish]

24. Uhhh, Why Are They At A Science Museum In The First Place.

Isn't there a xtian museum they can go to? All of their dogma could be catered to with aplomb.

Jay

[atommom]

28. There are museums like that. Here's one of them.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/

But they want their viewpoint taught in every setting, so they're not likely to stop bothering the legitimate museums anytime soon.

[yellowcanine]

30. I wonder if docents at a creationist museum would show as much patience

with marauding evolutionists asking questions. Somehow I think not.

[atommom]

32. My thoughts exactly! They'd see it as more evidence that Christians

are persecuted. :eyes:

[reprobate]

48. Don't ask questions. Just laugh at them. Nothing pisses them off more.

[intheflow]

98. I'm sure creationist museums are not tax-payer funded.

And I'm sure that's part of their beef with real museums. "My taxes pay for this, I want all views shown, blah, blah, blah!" :puke:

[DamnYank]

36. How about the Bob Jones museum

Bob Jones "University" has a museum focusing on Xian art, one of the best in the world. I wonder how it would go over if we walked in and started bombarding them with science-based questions about some of the scenes depicted? I expect we'd be ordered off the premises in short order just as Al Franken was.

For those who've never seen the place, it's the only non-military school campus I've ever seen with a fortress-like wall around it and gatehouses to control access. Are they trying to keep the real world out or keep the "students" locked in so they can't escape and go a-sinnin'?

[0007]

42. Noah’s family praising God for their deliverance

and sign of “The New Covenant”

[belle]

52. Boy, is that ever classy-lookin' art.

:eyes:

Seriously, I've seen fan art by hardcore "Lord of the Rings" fanatics that's better than that (though the aesthetics appear remarkably similar)

[0007]

61. I agree

[reprobate]

47. Here's a quote from that site:

"This 50,000 square foot facility will proclaim to the world that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of faith and practice and in every area it touches on."

Well we've finally made it. The United States of America now has it's own Sharia laws.

[roguevalley]

96. they are building another one in Korea. By the way, dinosaurs

were on the arc, ate veggies until the Fall and were of only six kinds. Truly. The idea of fossilization was put aside because a museum has a ... get ready for it because I'm not making it up ... a fossilized pickle.

[atommom]

99. How can you put aside the "idea" of fossilization, when there are

millions of fossils throughout the world? And I don't care how hard and shriveled that pickle might be ... it's not a freakin' fossil.

I'd love to hear their explanation for the six (and only six) kinds of dinos, too. That would have made transporting them on the Ark easier, but since that was after the Fall, how did they keep the carnivores from eating all of the other animals? I would think that one T. Rex could easily eat an Arkful of prey in a few days.

It's fascinating, in a scary kind of way, to see what lengths these people will go to.... how many facts they're willing to ignore, how much money they're willing to spend...

[barackmyworld]

87. I had a funny experience with this--

I was at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago watching an IMAX movie about natural disasters. It started by showing the origin of the earth, with condensing clouds of dust and gas, and this woman screamed "THAT'S NOT HOW IT HAPPENED!" People yelled at her.

[fishwax]

26. I'd like to take a B.C. tour of the Denver Museum

Sounds like a hoot :evilgrin:

I'm glad museums are training volunteers to respond to such things, but it sure is sad that they have to ...

[DS1]

29. That's the conservative method of debate

overflow with questions, until the liberal realizes what's going on and tells them to go fuck themselves.

[belle]

53. It's the real-life equivalent of trolling, is what it is.

As far as I'm concerned, the solution in both cases is the same: as soon as the people in charge of the institution (real or virtual) have determined that the troller is not there for any reason except to be disruptive--and is succeeding--escort them firmly out the door. Let them squawk about it outside if they need to. No shirt, no social skills, no service.

No, really: if someone's been filibustering you for forty-five minutes nonstop and showing no signs of hearing anything you have to say in reply, no matter how polite you are (and no matter how much everyone else is starting to glaze over or fidget restlessly), and you finally tell them something like, "I'm sorry, but other people have been waiting to ask questions, and now we really need to get on with the tour," and they plow right on interrupting regardless, that should be enough right there. It doesn't matter whether they're yammering about Creationism or their flatulent pet rabbit. If they're not there to be sincere, and (easier to determine) if they're dominating and ruining an experience for everyone else, out with them.

This, by the way, was how the religious right managed to hijack the Republican party. Showed up in small squadrons at local meetings and made the agenda useless by asking pointless questions, arguing endlessly, and generally driving everyone bonkers; nothing got done. Eventually, enough of the original people got sick of it and left. Voila: the organization is under new management. It's like kudzu. They keep doing it because they've learned that it works. You have to know how to recognize and quash that shit. That means you always need someone(s) who's willing and able to hit the "it's time for you to shut the fuck up now" button and mean it. Yeah, having that means that you're going to piss people off, and inevitably someone will scream that you're suppressing their right to free speech. And of course, the more committed to small-d democracy you are, the more sensitive you are to these charges, and you figure, oh, okay, better to let them speak their piece and challenge it on its own grounds. But in situations where there's already a planned event with a limited timeframe--a meeting about something completely unrelated, a museum tour, a fercrissakes FUNERAL, you canNOT give these people free air time. *I* think. It's inappropriate. They are being disruptive. They need to get their own platform and stop hijacking yours; and if they can't be respectful to the event taking place, then they're out of there. Period. End.

[daleo]

62. It sounds like adaptive behavior - i.e. evolution.

"It's like kudzu. They keep doing it because they've learned that it works."

How long until they mutate?

[atommom]

66. I agree 100%.

[TrogL]

35. I talked to some museum people last month about this issue

They said there's little point in arguing with them at any length. You're not going to change their minds and they don't have enough science background to understand anyway.

[calico1]

37. Well, that true.

Remember they are pretty much against education too, unless its bible "education.":grr:

[Julius Civitatus]

38. self deleted / wrong thread

[redqueen]

40. Fundies are pretty much barking mad...

that's the only explanation I can think of.

[Occulus]

41. Okay, I have a question for all people who worship in church:

What is it about your worship space that makes you think you are immune from people barging in during the Sunday sermon and peppering your pastor about the nature of God, or creationism, or some such?

Why do you think you're so special and immune- indeed, why do we ALL seem to think that? Nobody would thnk of disrupting a pastor's sermon in a similar way! Why, then, is it seemingly okay for religious people to do the same out in public, even to those who do not publicly worship?

Why?

[0007]

43. You've got a good point! But what's the answer to their ignorance

other than just ignoring them?

[Occulus]

49. Doing the same to them is the answer.

And, whilst sitting in church, they would have no excuse to do anything but sit silent and take it, for they are there called upon to do unto others as they would have done unto them. :D

They did unto the public, soooooooo......

[belle]

54. Maybe. I think better would be to just not tolerate them doing it to us.

(see my post above re: the need for more well-meaning small-d democrats to be able to recognize and respond to circumstances in which it is not only appropriate but necessary to hit the "shut the fuck up" button).

[The_Casual_Observer]

56. This kind of behavior shows the utter stupidity and ignorance

of these "believers". The scary part is that we share the highways and public spaces with half-wits like that.

[Occulus]

83. So, if we know this, why don't we mete out the same?

Fuck being "more respectful"; they deserve to have their sermons disrupted!

[symbolman]

44. I think we should all go into churches

and demand that they teach EVOLUTION, otherwise they are persecuting us :)

[jokerman93]

46. Time is short I guess

Jeebus is coming. They have to take their message to the world and are now at war with all the legions of the devil. I know this type.

"The mind is the truth killer!"

phhht!

LOL

I feel bad for Dr. Durkee and others who have to endure this kind of mindless harassment. It's admirable they can be courteous in the face of such dangerous obscurantism. I just comfort myself that eventually this fundie insanity will run its course and ordinary human reason, heart and civility with prevail.

A boy can dream, can't he?

:evilgrin:

[mmonk]

51. What year is this, again?

[HughBeaumont]

55. 1305.

At that point, the earth was only around for about 5 thousand years, according to Sensationists.

[MisterP]

60. 6008 anno mundi, according to the Ussher chronology...

I knew creationism was bad from the moment I laid eyes on it

[youspeakmylanguage]

59. "It is as if they aren't listening."

Who has the cluebat?

[Baconfoot]

63. The real problem is that they figure you are lying when you correct them.

Here is their argument I think:
Since you are a scientist or a person who believes in science, you are an atheist. (False of course)
Since you are an atheist, you are immoral. (False of course)
Since you are immoral, you would lie to get me to doubt the word of God on this matter. (Again false - Why not harass churchgoers or rob people instead?)

If you tell them that they are factually mistaken regarding some of their claims regarding how dating methods are even SUPPOSED to work, this is just further evidence that you are lying.

They cannot be reasoned with.



SNARKY ADDENDUM: Still think it school children should start each school day invoking the name of God?

[electron_blue]

64. let them go

It's easy to swat these types down, and just think, they'll get to hear their 'reasoning' swatted down thousands of times before their tour is over.

[emm3]

65. Let's go to church and challenge their beliefs.

STEP #1
Write a list of 1000 questions relating to physically impossible things or contradictions within the bible.

STEP #2
Split the questions between a team of 20 or 30 people (more if you can).

STEP #3
Barge into church and ask the questions one after the other to whoever is leading proceedings.

STEP #4
Stay there asking the questions until people get pissed off (tip off the press in advance). When there's a furore about your activity... just tell the press... "we're only doing the same as the creationists, what's wrong with that?"

If they're going to be pricks... surely we should be pricks too!?... give 'em a taste of their own rancid medicine!!

[Bridget Burke]

68. Be sure you've got the right church...

Quite a few get along well with science.

[bunkerbuster1]

102. Most mainline Proddies and Catholic churches, for instance.

Let's not forget that 99% of the noise on this stupid issue is being made by a very small minority of churchgoers.

Problem is, in some states (like Georgia), fundie churches do comprise a ruling plurality of voters (something like 39% of the state is Baptist), so they can't be ignored there.

Also, a majority of Americans do claim to believe in the literal "truth" of the Bible (god creating everything in six days), although I suspect if you got down to brass tacks they'd probably hem and haw about a lot of specifics.

Part of me is, indeed, scared shitless by the inroads that fundy assholes have made on inflicting Creationism on American education. And another part of me see this as a pathetic last gasp on their part as secularism and religious pluralism finally hits a tipping point.

who knows...

[Arugula Latte]

81. We're limited to only 1,000 contradictions?

Jeez, it's so hard to choose!

[Bridget Burke]

69. Good idea. Museums are educational institutions.

Even if they don't "convince" everyone in the Creationist group, some of them (kids, especially) will remember.

[Briar]

71. "Both sides"?

"We present both sides from an objective perspective and let the students decide for themselves," said Rusty Carter, an operator of the group."

It's this pretense that biblical text is equivalent to scientific evidence which does the damage in the first place!

[anotherdrew]

73. THEY don't have a "side" all they have is bullshit

why oh why do I have to be cursed with these assholes in my lifetime? How long is it going to take this generation of morons to die off? Too long...

[hunter]

72. Incest in the house of Adam and Eve!

That's always a good topic. Was it just brothers and sisters getting it on, or were mom and dad in on the action too?

My own theory is that Eve was the first human, and that all her boyfriends were subhuman. Her daughters suffered a similar fate, and in fact a lot of that is still going on today.

You know your girlfriend's ex was an ape. So are you, unless you are a woman.

Anyways, it would be funny if groups of pastafarians could follow closely behind these groups of creationists.

....and thus our God created the Squid as a sacred representation of His Noodley Appendages...

[Gelliebeans]

75. Unfortunately it's way past

time that these idiots are dealt with. They are sadly mistaken when they insist they are on equal grounds with science. They believe that if they bully their view that the world will adapt and accept said view as fact. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

[Miss Chybil]

78. Another burka moment... nt

[Arugula Latte]

80. When I was visiting the Denver Museum of Science & Nature

I heard some dumbass woman in the origins of life/dinosaur exhibit (incredible display, BTW!!!) who was aghast because there is an illustration showing birds evolving from dinosaurs.

Unfortunately, the museum was about to close and I couldn't round up my kids fast enough in order to start making comments for that dimwit to "accidentally" overhear ..

[wildcat78]

86. HYou have to hit these people...

with the Devonian Mass Extinction. Their eyes go blank for they have no idea what you are talking about. It's really funny.

[VegasWolf]

84. Can't we just say that the Flintstone Museum is only in Hollywood. nt

[K8-EEE]

90. LOL!! Freepers Always KILL Each Other RE: This Topic.

So fun!! 700-plus posts of Freepers Eating Their Own. It's fun when some of them realize just how much insanity reigns on that site! They're all shocked...LOL! Not me...but seriously this is my fave Freep topic cuz they all go Freep nuts on each OTHER.

Sample: "I can't believe how divorced from reality you are!" Um YEAH for one thing the all voted for * so a big chunk of them are crazy right off the bat.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1487919/posts?q=1&&page=51

:nuke:

[K8-EEE]

91. Oooh! Start At The Last Page, Check Out This Sample:

To: Right Wing Professor
ROFL! More 'argumentum ad la-la-la-I can't-hear-you".

Rolling on the floor laughing while humming logical fallacies to yourself is not a victory celebration, it is the tragedy of a Right Wing Professor evolving into a Left Wing Professor with a propensity for rolling on the floor with twits like the one who wrote this article.

You provided NO quotes supporting your lunatic twits stupid assertions that Bush is some sort of Luddite. You know it, I know it and anybody reading this stupid thread knows it.

As General Honore says "Don't get stuck on stupid Prof".
680 posted on 09/20/2005 8:46:49 PM PDT by jwalsh07 ("Don't get stuck on stupid!" General Honore to twit reporter)
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To: general_re
" I don't think you have anything resembling a cogent argument"

Your entire argument and debate rests on "my freshman biology teacher says so"?

LOL.

Your lack of comprehension of fundamental science is not my problem.

You lack even a junior high education in critical thinking skills and analytical science. It is not my responsibility to bring your skills up to par in order to participate in an intelligent way.

As for my "jargon", there is nothing pseudo about it. I've led R&D projects succesfully for over 20 years. You had some biology class somewhere? LOL.

You cannot grasp how to begin formulating a theory. Then you expect to hide behind your biology teacher when asked pointed questions?

Next time bring your teacher to the debate. Your teacher will also tell you that current biology does not explain the origins of life (at least not with any more than pure conjecture, acts of faith.)

The sad thing is that your faith is destroyed by simple logic, because no science justifies it.

My faith is strengthened by science because science is the unveiling of Gods creation.
681 posted on 09/20/2005 8:54:33 PM PDT by Mark Felton (Those who despise instruction despise their own soul...)
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To: jwalsh07
ROFL! More 'argumentum ad la-la-la-I can't-hear-you".

Rolling on the floor laughing while humming logical fallacies to yourself is not a victory celebration, it is the tragedy of a Right Wing Professor evolving into a Left Wing Professor with a propensity for rolling on the floor with twits like the one who wrote this article.

You provided NO quotes supporting your lunatic twits stupid assertions that Bush is some sort of Luddite. You know it, I know it and anybody reading this stupid thread knows it.

As General Honore says "Don't get stuck on stupid Prof".

[shanti]

93. yes, the fundies are just implementing their plans

have you checked out pbs lately? it used to be one of my favorite channels, but no more. i was watching a nova show tonite about the "scab land" in the northwest. the show had an obvious slant towards creationism. i had to turn it off, couldn't take it anymore. :(

[Bridget Burke]

100. I saw that show & noticed NO Creationism.

It was a bunch of geologists uncovering what happened in (now) Eastern Washington State many thousands of years ago. Very intersting.

Real Creationists don't believe the planet is that old.

Perhaps you should have watched the whole thing.

[shanti]

103. ok, i used the wrong word...so shoot me

i am referring to the scientist (bertz? sp.) that was attributing the phenomenon to the "great flood of the bible." maybe you missed that....:shrug: it's not the first time i've noticed this slant on pbs.

[Bridget Burke]

107. I think he meant it was of "Biblical proportions"

Is that what made you switch the channel? I watched the whole show & found it scientifically sound.

Which other PBS shows have offended you?

[shanti]

113. actually, it was an interesting show

something that i'd never heard of before. the camerawork was a bit strange at times, but when i heard the bible mentioned, i lost interest. admittedly, it was towards the end of the show, and i was channel surfing.

so you've never noticed that the programming for pbs has changed significantly? their programming is heavy on religious shows, non-contraversial topics, etc., since *ush came into office. it's just....different.

[lakemonster11]

115. "the great flood of the bible"

It's pretty common to refer to "the great flood of the bible" in shows/books about geology or prehistory. It's sort of like using "B.C." or "A.D." instead of "B.C.E." or "C.E." Stories of a great flood show up in more ancient texts than just the Bible (The Epic of Gilgamesh for one), and there is some scientific evidence for a great prehistoric flood. (Sorry, I'm not an expert, so I'm not sure about credibility or anything). In this context, references to the Biblical flood aren't really meant to be religious, it's just that most people have heard of the flood in the Bible, so it's a useful reference point.

I wouldn't worry too much about a creationist slant if this is all you noticed.

[roguevalley]

95. retards. they are nothing but worthless retards. i had a parent once

tell me as a first grade teacher that they didn't want me to teach about dinosaurs because they 'didn't believe in them'

Their daughter died about ten years later and they fell apart. she moved on to another man and had an illegitimate kid before coming back to the family. Their kids are in and out of jail but I am sure they still believe in creationism. idiots.

[Bridget Burke]

101. I belong to the Houston Museum of Natural Science.

(There recent LOTR show convined me to re-up.)

If I heard any such crap being discussed, I'd add my 2 cents. I'd definitely try to be polite, but would not stay silent. Probably every dinosaur-loving kid in the area would help.

[Zenlitened]

104. What sad little people. They take the time to learn about...

... carbon-dating, thermodynamics, etc. etc.

Yet they still manage to blind themselves to the truth and beauty of nature. They still manage to block out everything but their diseased little obsession with an ancient creation myth.

How do you do it? How do you acquire facts without ever increasing your store of wisdom or understanding?

It's a sign of a damaged brain, it really is. To be a creationist, you must be cognitively or emotionally impaired in some way. Just damaged.

:crazy:

[YOY]

110. I saw one argument against carbon dating

Using an example from 50 years ago where the sample was improperly or erringly carbon dated. Yes, that error 50 years ago was enough for them. Instead of asking why if failed they see the entire process as a failure (logic does not work that way and neither does science.)

They take it or any other evidence and run with it like psychotic little ADD children with scisors...hope they don't trip but if they do the future would be a better place.

I simply point out that the 'Theory of Creationism' is not even a 'theory' (a proven hypothesis with evidence/facts to support it.) It is usually enough to shut them up for the moment.

I find the most hilarious thing to be their mixture of the words 'fact' and 'truth'. These words do not mean the same thing. Once is solid and concrete (scientific) and another is a matter of perception and philosophy.

Just pathetic.

[pinniped]

117. I doubt these dinos-don't-exist people's minds can be changed.

They have been indoctrinated to the ninth level or something.

Not only that, I highly doubt these peeps are capable of understanding the various processes used for dating fossils. It's quite obvious they possess no background in science.