Bible textbook could circumvent culture war (to be used in public schools)

[truthpusher]

http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/politics/12706340.htm

Posted on Wed, Sep. 21, 2005
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Bible textbook could circumvent culture war
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BY STEVEN THOMMA
Knight Ridder Newspapers
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WASHINGTON - (KRT) - Seeking to defuse a central controversy of the culture wars, a Bible advocacy group will unveil a new textbook Thursday that could open the door to widespread Bible courses in public high schools.

The textbook, titled "The Bible and Its Influence," was written to thread a constitutional and legal needle by teaching, not preaching, about the Bible, its editors told Knight Ridder in an exclusive preview.

(snip)

Scholars have been looking for a way to teach about the Bible in public schools for years, said Sheila Weber, a vice president of the Bible Literacy Project, a Virginia group that's publishing the 40-chapter book.

(snip)

The book, being published in time for school districts to consider for next year's curricula, was designed to follow a set of guidelines on how to teach about the Bible in public schools while not endorsing one religion's view and not offending people of faith.

The guidelines were approved by such groups as the American Federation of Teachers, the National Association of Evangelicals, the Council on Islamic Education and the People for the American Way Foundation, as well as the First Amendment Center.

"We think it reflects the standards we agreed to," Haynes said. The other groups haven't yet seen the textbook and couldn't comment on it Wednesday.

(snip)

complete story: http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/politics/12706340.htm

[Big Kahuna]

1. Can I say bullshit on LBN?

[54anickel]

2. Sounds sort of interesting. The Bible's influence on history is a

fascinating topic, well to me anyway, as well as it's influence on literature, art and music. Wonder what grade it's geared to.

[Kelvin Mace]

17. How about its influence

in the murder of tens of millions of people over two millenia?

[beam me up scottie]

19. Good point.

I wonder if ALL of the bible would be included.

Ooooh, some of the stuff in there makes Clive Barker's stories look like Golden Books.

:evilgrin:

[genieroze]

26. I wonder if they will teach how the Bible influenced Torquemada

during The Spanish Inquisition.

[Kelvin Mace]

52. Well, the Bible approves of incest, child murder and rape

That should be an interesting discussion point.

[54anickel]

27. Yep, that too...that's what I meant by history. The Church has been

very influential all through history, some good, some bad and alot of downright ugly. It's an extremely interesting subject to study regardless of your personal beliefs.

[VegasWolf]

32. Yes, how the Holy Babble influenced the Spanish Inquisition. nt

[54anickel]

39. I would hope they would cover everything - but from the posts by

beam me up scotty, it appears this group isn't interested in teaching ALL of the influence the Bible has had over the ages.

That's too bad, the history of Christianity and the Bible are really interesting topics. From the very beginning both tended to be used and abused by those in power. You cannot deny they were very influential in literature, art, music and history - some good, some bad.

[roguevalley]

3. crap. teachers can do what they will. teach it as ethics and history,

nothing more. keep religion out of public life.

[beam me up scottie]

4. Great.

As if trying to force schools to allow id to be "taught" wasn't bad enough.
These people never quit.

Some excerpts from new textbook, "The Bible and Its Influence":

_On creation:

"While some Christians read Genesis as a literal account of how God created the world, most Christians and Jews read Genesis for a different sort of revelation: for the what and why of creation rather than the how."

_On Moses parting the Red Sea:

"With impassable waters before them and the furious Egyptians at their backs, the Israelites appeared doomed. But once more, according to Exodus, God intervened."

_On the virgin birth of Jesus:

"The original word in Isaiah translated here as virgin can mean young girl or virgin. As it is cited in Matthew, however, it forms the basis for the Christian belief in the virgin birth. The tradition states Mary was a virgin when she conceived and bore Jesus."

_On influencing American history:

"Words from the Bible are inscribed on public buildings. Political campaigns are laced with references to the Bible. ... Little of America's historic public speeches or its great reform movements or the pilgrim wanderings that led to America's founding is completely intelligible without at least a working knowledge of the Bible."

Scholars have been looking for a way to teach about the Bible in public schools for years said Sheila Weber, a vice president of the Bible Literacy Project, a Virginia group that's publishing the 40-chapter book.

No, scholars have NOT, fundie zealots from the reichwing have.

[Zenlitened]

7. Sounds more like a bible lesson book to me, explaining "meanings."

More subterfuge from people intoxicated with religion. :puke:

[beam me up scottie]

20. These guys are dangerous.

They've been at this for years and they know what they're doing.

They are experts at judging the political climate, the timing is anything but accidental.

How many Dems will stand up and fight this if they're too scared of coming off as anti-god before the next elections ?

[BiggJawn]

33. What a HUGE collection of "Weasel Words", just in those excerpts!

"The original"
"as it is cited"
"The tradition states"

"While"
"Most"
"According to..."
"May be"

Try this:

"while there may be some poor misinformed souls who do not have God in their lives, most people of good sense believe that a Personal Relationship with Jeebus may lead to eternal life in what some consider 'The Hereafter'..."

Why, it's not "pushing" religion, it's just saying "I'm just saying, y'know?"

Devious mother-fuckers, these Dominionists. They truly will NOT give up until "Every Knee shall Bend, Every Head shall BOW".

Even the 1927 St. Francis dam failure and flood (450 dead) probably began as just a tiny little crack...


Tell ya what, you keep your Religion out of the public school, and I won't demand a law requiring Safe Sex to be taught in sunday School. Deal?

[silverweb]

5. Works for me. (On edit: NOT)

Like it or not, the Bible has had millenia of profound influence on Western culture, from art to literature to law, and understanding that influence is a legitimate part of studying history.

On edit, delete previous statement: If this text has received approval from all the named organizations for teaching not preaching, we can now hope only that the teachers using the text refrain from preaching or proselytizing.

[beam me up scottie]

6. No, it's HASN'T received "approval" from those organizations.

They're spinning the truth like they always do.

The GUIDELINES were approved, not this book.

The only one who has approved it is Charles Haynes, "a senior scholar at the Freedom Forum's First Amendment Center".

Not like that should come as a big shock to anyone.

[silverweb]

11. Oh, shit.

That's what I get for skimming the article and not reading it thoroughly. Thanks for the correction.

[beam me up scottie]

15. Sorry for my tone!

I'm touchy because I did a lot of research on these guys.

They are constantly looking for ways to get around that wall thingy in the Constitution.

They are very well funded and very well connected and they spend a lot of their effort trying to make it look like they just want to help the little children.

argh

[silverweb]

38. S'okay.

I'm with you on the fundies trying to get around the Constitution!

I keep thinking that if comparative religion and cultural studies were already a part of the public school curriculum, including the Bible, these clowns would finally shut up. Probably wishful thinking on my part, huh?

[clydefrand]

10. Are we likewise going to teach the Koran and the Torah as

well as the history of Buddism, etc. Where will it end? Will we also teach about voodoo and the history of Satanic worship, et al?

[silverweb]

14. We should.

As part of a comparative course in religion and culture. It should be a mandatory part of a multicultural curriculum to promote understanding and tolerance.

[krkaufman]

18. Exactly. The history of the Bible cannot be taught w/o including...

... any/all other religions and faiths. Sounds more like a high school or college class; and certainly more complex than could/should be taught in a grade school.

I liked The Daily Show's take on an Evolution discussion panel last week. They had an evolutionary biologist (makes sense), a (not-so-) Intelligent Design proponent, and a metaphysical creation theorist. Stewart eventually made the direct point, asking "Why shouldn't that (metaphysical creation theory) be taught in schools?"

[donco6]

45. How can you skip the Koran when talking about . . .

. . . impact on the world? Muslims preserved Western civilization for 400 years.

[VegasWolf]

8. Yeah. People have fallen for talking snakes for a long time. nt

[acmejack]

9. This just wrong on so many levels!

This is a clear attempt to further insinuate the Bible into our schools.

[oppositionmember]

12. What happens when a teacher says...

"This may or may NOT be true. Personally I think its a crock."

[bee]

13. lawsuits. You can bet on it. n/t

[Bigmack]

50. lawsuits...

A lot of people forget that lawsuits... good, frivolous, bad, instigated by fascists or progressives... eat up a school district's finances.

Money to fight lawsuits about bible classes won't be available to staff classrooms or buy supplies.

[Tace]

16. I'd Be OK With A Course That Examines Scripture From All Religions

Comparing and contrasting various religions. I attended a Quaker high school. One of the great things about the school compared with public schools is that we were taught about all religions. It was not used as an excuse to promote the bible while putting down the Koran or other scriptures. To the contrary, a study of the world's religions reveals universal similarities.

To ignore the spiritual aspect of mankind is tragic, IMHO.

That said, I can see how this text could be used to preach a bunch of hokum to captive public school children.

[trotsky]

21. Two questions for these Christians who keep pushing this.

1) Are evenings and weekends not enough time to teach your own kids what you want them to learn about the bible?

2) Will you be OK with opening up the Koran and other religious texts for EQUAL TIME to discuss their importance and place in history?

[Raiden]

22. Can you say, "Slippery Slope"

Keep the fucking Bible out of public schools!

[onager]

28. Oh, I love this one...

"With impassable waters before them and the furious Egyptians at their backs, the Israelites appeared doomed. But once more, according to Exodus, God intervened."

Really? Well, then I bet these Eminent Scholars can tell us exactly when that occurred, i.e., under which Pharoah, in which Kingdom and which Dynasty, and roughly what year. Since if you know the former, you'd know the latter.

(sound of crickets chirping)

The Egyptians kept careful records of their history, for thousands of years.

I'm a dumbass and even I can tell you how many time the "Israelites" are mentioned in all of recorded Egyptian history.

Once.

That mention is on a stelae (big square carved rock) dating from the reign of Meneptah, the son of Ramses II. I saw it earlier this year in the Cairo Museum.

You'll be amazed to learn that there is absolutely no mention of the Red Sea parting. Or for that matter, nothing else in the Exodus yarn.

The stelae records Pharoah Meneptah leading a military expedition into Palestine and Syria. According to the stelae: "Israel is crushed. Its seed is no more."

IOW, the Israelites got their butts kicked. Wonder why THAT interesting little fact isn't recorded in the Great Infallible Book Of Judeo-Xian Fairy Tales?

Buy-bull scholars usually try to pull a fast one and say Ramses II was the Pharoah who chased Moses. But we know Ramses II didn't drown in the Red Sea. He ruled for over 60 years and is one of the most phamous Pharoahs in Egyptian history.

[msongs]

23. high schoolers already study FICTION in lit class anyway nt

[ismnotwasm]

24. (Sigh)

Why not just offer a comparative religion course--like in college. WHY does it have to be the bible? What is wrong with these people? There are many writings and spiritual teachings that have just as much, if not more value. I wouldn't object to an ELECTIVE comparative religion course as long as the emphasis was not on Christianity, but how religion has affected human development. Bible courses have no place in public schools.

[Biased Liberal Media]

25. I'm hoping I get a list if and when the time comes

because then I can know when to pull my daughter out of school...that is, unless they plan on teaching OTHER religions.

[papau]

29. Who are these people that will tomorrow endorse it as constitutional ?

Tomorrow we hear these folks:
Cullen Schippe – Textbook general editor, former vice president and publisher for Music, Religion and Social Studies at Macmillan/McGraw-Hill
Dr. Marie Wachlin -- Head of teacher training and the textbook pilot program, professor at Concordia University, Portland, and author of the Bible Literacy Report: What do American teens need to know and what do they know?
Dr. Leland Ryken – Clyde S. Kilby Professor of English, Wheaton College, IL
Dr. Charles C. Haynes – Senior scholar, First Amendment Center
Marc Stern – General counsel, American Jewish Congress

all praising the book and telling us it meets the guidelines of the American Federation of Teachers, the National Association of Evangelicals, the Council on Islamic Education and the People for the American Way Foundation, as well as the First Amendment Center (Interesting how no one from these organizations will be there)

I wonder how it compares - as a learning experience - to the new - edited down to 20,000 words - version of the Bible that just came out. The new book "The Bible and Its Influence" is obviously pushing the historical/cultural approach as it should, but the shorten but for adults (you zoom through the OT) Bible provides a way to get the gestalt without spending a major amount of time reading. In any case, these appear to be interesting approaches.

[moobu2]

30. Cant they just make

their own children ignorant in church on Sunday and leave everyone else alone?

[Lindacooks]

31. Bible as Literature class is possible. Lots of literary allusions in

both testaments. But I don't trust the raving whack job fundies to limit it to that.

[moobu2]

34. Might as well

have a course on Santa Clause and his influence is western culture or the tooth fairy…what silliness.

[VegasWolf]

35. Wonder if they are going to include that part where God sent bears to

tear up little children for making fun of one of his prophets? nt

[papau]

44. New International Version TRANSLATES it as "mauled",

2 Kings 2 (New International Version)
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.

[stepnw1f]

36. They Crossed the Line with Terri Schiavo (nt)

[Charlie Brown]

37. Just what kind of "class" will this be taught in?

If this book is required reading in any history or social studies class, there are a million reasons it's unconstitutional.

[54anickel]

40. Are they even teaching History anymore? This came up in Monday's

SMW thread, UpInArms posted this...

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050917/NEWS06/50917001

But because of President Bush's No Child Left Behind law, which imposes sanctions on schools where students fail to make annual progress on reading and math tests, many schools are reducing the time spent on history, or eliminating it altogether, Passe said.

David McCullough, the historian, also faulted President Bush's law in testimony before a Senate Committee in June.

"Because of No Child Left Behind, sadly, history is being put on the back burner or taken off the stove altogether in many or most schools, in favor of math and reading," McCullough said.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1790629#1790831


They don't want anyone actually knowing History, how could they continue to revise it if they did?

[Scooter24]

41. The class

is an elective. So thankfully there is no requirement to take this class.

[TankLV]

47. For now. But once these snake oil salesmen get their foot in the door..

This is bad news.

Period.

[mitchum]

42. Magic man in the sky bullshit

[Trillo]

43. "Bible textbook could circumvent culture war"

Translation: We will kill your culture if you don't read about our religion.

Sounds like even more indoctrination to me.

[slay]

46. As long as they teach - "Religious Wackos Rule By Preaching Fear and Guilt

To a Scared Bunch of Humans" as one of the lessons to expose the seedy underside of alot of these so called "religions", which in all honesty breed alot of intolerance and hatred for anyone who is different, I'm cool with it. :P

[reprobate]

48. Will they include the Gospel of Thomas. Turns the whole story on its ear

[Dr Fate]

49. I'm glad People for the American Way are involved.

n/t

[NAO]

51. "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine for BOTH history AND bible classes

OK fine. Have your bible book in public school classes. But let's have some counter balance from American Founding Father Thomas Paine. In "The Age of Reason" he wrote,

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

"It is curious to observe how the theory of what is called the Christian Church, sprung out of the tail of the heathen mythology. A direct incorporation took place in the first instance, by making the reputed founder to be celestially begotten. The trinity of gods that then followed was no other than a reduction of the former plurality, which was about twenty or thirty thousand. The statue of Mary succeeded the statue of Diana of Ephesus. The deification of heroes changed into the canonization of saints. The Mythologists had gods for everything; the Christian Mythologists had saints for everything. The church became as crowded with the one, as the pantheon had been with the other; and Rome was the place of both. The Christian theory is little else than the idolatry of the ancient mythologists, accommodated to the purposes of power and revenue; and it yet remains to reason and philosophy to abolish the amphibious fraud."

The Age of Reason
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/

[Initech]

53. Once again, the Ameritaliban is going way too far.

Yikes!