NYT/AP: Many Stuck (and enraged) on Way Out of Houston

[DeepModem Mom]

Many Stuck on Way Out of Houston
Filed at 6:33 p.m. ET


HOUSTON (AP) -- Wilma Skinner would like to scream at the officials of this city. If only someone would pick up their phone....

***

With Hurricane Rita breathing down Houston's neck, those with cars were stuck in gridlock trying to get out. Those like Skinner -- poor, and with a broken-down car -- were simply stuck, and fuming at being abandoned, they say.

''All the banks are closed and I just got off work,'' said Thomas Visor, holding his sweaty paycheck as he, too, tried to get inside the store, where more than 100 people, all of them black or Hispanic, fretted in line. ''This is crazy. How are you supposed to evacuate a hurricane if you don't have money? Answer me that?''

Some of those who did have money, and did try to get out, didn't get very far.

Judie Anderson of La Porte, Texas, covered just 45 miles in 12 hours. She had been on the road since 10 p.m. Wednesday, headed toward Oklahoma, which by Thursday was still very far away.

''This is the worst planning I've ever seen,'' she said. ''They say, 'We've learned a lot from Hurricane Katrina.' Well, you couldn't prove it by me.''...


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Rita-Stuck-in-Houston-HK1.html?oref=login

[JuniperLea]

1. Sadly, this is no surprise

How will they spin the blame game this time?

[KittyWampus]

12. The Population Density Is Simply Unsustainable & Unsafe

the fire marshall dictates how many people my family's business can have in the dining room. We are required to post a sign with the maximum capacity on it. The reason for this is only x amount of people can get out of a room in an emergency.

Why aren't cities held to the same standards?

[JuniperLea]

14. Good call, cryingshame!

I would venture to guess it's because of... yes, you guessed it, corporate America! Gotta keep those Wal Mart shoppers moving into the corporate owned apartments and condos ya know! I've always had a problem with density in cities. It's just not safe. But who do you tell to leave?

[Bill McBlueState]

78. But who do you tell to leave?

Exactly. Who decides which people don't get to live where they want or need to live? Who pays the relocation costs, and who finds them new jobs?

It's a little arrogant to start suggesting that some people -- especially the urban poor -- shouldn't be allowed to live where they live.

[KansDem]

85. "Corporate America"

...precisely, and local governments too wimpy or too corrupt to stand up to Corporate America and say "no," especially when developers and home builders decide to buy the cheapest land for maximum profit. No doubt if a city planner said "no" to zoning and code changes that would benefit a developer, based on the concern of an emergency evacuation plan, then we'd hear from these developers, who would scream like stuck pigs, about "anti-capitalism," "Commies," and "restraint of trade." But those whose primary concern should be the public welfare, simply give in and we have sprawling communities that lead to disasters like this one.

This is also the reason we don't have, and will never have, efficient mass transit. Unlike Europe, we don't plan our cities and communities around the need to move people efficiently.

[nuthead2ub]

158. Don't shoot the messenger...

...but truth be told, cities and their populations are generally the result of a kind of natural progression.

From all that I've studied of human history, geography is usually the key. The geography brings the people to areas of opportunity. The largest cities are usually where they are and as dense as they are because they are in the right place to become a nexus of trade.

I could drone on for some time but really unless people want to start producing everything they need to survive in their own community,(not going to happen) then we may as well get used to the idea of huge sprawling urban areas.

No society could thrive without them.

[natrat]

24. for that matter the earth is overloaded by (i think)a factor of 6

[barb162]

50. I would agree with your assessment, especially the 6

Way too many people all over the world and it isn't sustainable. Also too many people living on coasts instead of letting the sandbars and swamps do their job. What happens with all that development on the coasts worldwide when the seas start riding from global warming.

[raccoon]

74. Too many people, yeah, and a small percentage, as you've

probably heard, consuming the lion's share of the earth's resources.
That is, the people in the developed countries.

"Also too many people living on coasts instead of letting the sandbars and swamps do their job. "

Definitely. Just in my own state I can easily see this. Over the past few decades, Hilton Head & Edisto Island, SC, have built up TREMENDOUSLY.

Development along coasts should be stopped, but...who benefits from it? Rich developers and rich people who buy beach houses, condos, etc.

[smirkymonkey]

143. It seems as though Mother Nature thinks so too.

If the Bird Flu pandemic is as deadly as predicted, the herd will be seriously thinned out.

Too many people living too close together and creating too much of a burden on the earth's resources.

[girl gone mad]

56. Also goes to show why...

having nuclear reactors and chemical plants near densely populated cities is a bad idea.

[adigal]

87. I shudder to think what would happen if Indian Point

nuclear power plant had an accident. It is in Westchester, NY, not far from NYC. It gives me the chills to think about how we could get people out in an hour or two when we cannot get them out with 4 days notice.

[goodhue]

132. The problem is not density, but rather lack of mass transit

[Bridget Burke]

161. Let's start with Manhattan--how many should move upstate?

Let's not forget thinning out the Bridge & Tunnel Crowd--they'll also impede evacuation.

[gasperc]

83. Dum-Dum Perry on the Tube, shouting"we're ready!!!"

and on top of that blaming people for running out of gas because they told them to fill up before they left.

a. alot of stations had already run out of gas

b. people with half or maybe even full tanks are running out of gas because they are in a 16 hour traffic jam that will easily burn a tank of gas. as well as overheat the car

c. The second evacuation orders were implemented, the south bound lanes should have been closed to Houston. Who the fuck needs to go to Houston when a hurricane is coming! Keep one lane open for emergencies or whatever. but open all the rest up

[skooooo]

2. ATM machines?

I hope they get traffic moving and get those people out of harms way.

[Der Blaue Engel]

9. Many working poor don't qualify for checking accounts

They have to cash them at stores that will cash a third-party check or pay exhorbitant fees at check cashing companies.

In every way, you are penalized for being poor in this country.

[skooooo]

13. That's right....

It even seems to me that the poor have to pay more for clothes and other items, because they are forced to buy cheap, shoddy products and continually replace them. If you're fortunate to be able to buy quality products that cost more, you often don't have to continually replace them because they last longer.

This is truly a national nightmare.

[slamthecrank]

23. I make ...

I make $24k/year - I work three jobs to it. And, I am uneligable for a checking account. I've tried every bank, even new ones just starting up, thinking they may give me a break. Nadda. I get my checks cashed at the local grocery store, b/c they charge the least amount to do so - $5 if the check is under $100, then it goes up from there.

I simply "do not qualify".

Land of plenty? Fuck you.

"I was born in the land of plenty, now there ain't enough" - Steve Earle.

[Kali]

37. have you tried a credit union?

[LeftyMom]

38. Have you tried a credit union

Nobody else would give me an accout, I tried big banks and small, but the credit union was happy to have me.

[celestia671]

40. Luckily for me,

the store where I cash my check only charges a buck or two, depending on the amount. I had a checking account, and the fees just about killed me, so I closed it. Cash and my prepaid mastercard work for me!

[minavasht]

44. What do you mean by qualify?

When I came here, I had $25o in cash.
I got a checking account at Washington Mutual two weeks later.
Don't tell me they made an exception for me, just because I was jobless immigrant.

[raccoon]

75. Some credit unions, you have to meet certain criteria to qualify.

Such as, you have to be a state employee, etc.

Credit unions' minimum balances, service charges, etc. are usually lower than banks' charges.

[dhinojosa]

136. Ours you can be a member of a food co-op......and you are in!

Rockin!

[Castilleja]

137. I just joined one here that only requires you be a resident of

a group of counties.

[sando]

151. You had a permanent address

You can't get a checking account without a permanent address. They also run a banking history on you and if you have one unpaid bounced check you can't open an account either. So before you start talking about your situation get a grip on the banking laws in the US. Others who are poor have had judgements handed down on bad debts and if they open an account what little money they have will be garnished. So they live by using check cashing establishments and pay 1 percent of the check instead of 20 or 30 percent in a garnishment. Grinding poverty does just that it grinds people down into the ground.

[AbbyR]

57. That's odd....

I don't make much more than that, and I have a checking account, ATM card, check card, all that stuff. I'm very careful, never bounce a check or anything. What on earth are the qualifications for a checking account where you are?

And by the way, ATM machines do run out of money at busy times.

[high density]

58. huh?

I made $0 as a college kid, but I was able to open a checking account during that period, fresh out of high school.

You should at least get a savings account at a local bank or credit union. It will probably require something like a $25 opening deposit, but you probably won't have to pay your bank a fee to cash your checks. It would also allow you to have an ATM card and utilize direct deposit, if your employer(s) provide it (which is a massive convenience, in my opinion.) Many banks even provide free checking accounts with direct deposit, though I don't understand why you have been turned down by all of your local banks unless you're flagged by ChexSystems for some reason.

[Der Blaue Engel]

105. Because of negative credit

I'm middle class and even I can't get a checking account at certain banks because I filed for bankruptcy five years ago.

Someone with no credit is not a problem. Someone whose paycheck-to-paycheck life has resulted in mounting late payments, late fees, overdrafts...banks will easily say no to them.

Why do you think there are check cashing businesses? They charge something like 10% or more to cash your check. Who in their right mind would go to a check cashing place if they could get a checking account? These places are filled with working poor on every payday. Must be a reason.

[slamthecrank]

126. Bullzeye

I'm sitting here reading these replies thinking "do you people all have perfect credit?" And, it's possible that you do. It's possible that you have pass-able credit. In my case, living from paycheck to paycheck resulted in years of bill-roulette - which is "which bills do i pay this month" b/c i could not afford to pay the electricity bill, gas bill, water bill at the same time. Something didn't get paid. And, even though I never got anything turned off, it reaked havoc on my credit.

No bank will have me as a checking account customer.

That, my friends, is the war on the poor. It is very, very common in this part of the nation (I live in the former textile capital of the world - rural South Carolina).

[minavasht]

144. This is really beyond me.

You were born here, you speak the language, have friends and family and still end unable to pay basic utility bills?
I'm not picking on you, but what do you think about the millions of legal and illegal immigrants who come here every year and manage to make enough money?
I know a bunch of foreigners who work, pay their bills AND their college fees AND save something.
BTW as foreigners they pay 3-5 times more for college than US citizens.

[slamthecrank]

149. what do i think?

i think it's great that they are able to do that. not where i live, though. i know of no-one who is able to do that here. if you want to see the definition of "clusterf---", visit a check-cashing place on friday afternoon in rural south carolina.

and, i'd also like to point out that just b/c you may know one, or have read about some that are able to do this, doesn't make it the majority. if you live your life thinking that this is still the land of opportunity (and for some, it is - if you're white, have a pedegree, or some means of borrowing), then you are a fucking moron. The past 50 years of this nation has based itself on a revolving policy of war against the poor. It's what keeps the "ruling class" in their power. Small rewards here and there quell the masses (see $2k debit cards) and stop any real revolution from happening. And when I say real revolution, I mean one that must occur from the inside, not the outside.

i would suggest that you wake up to your surroundings, and count your blessings that you have never had to live this way - which is obvious from your tone.

**NOTE: I attended college for two years, and paid bills the exact same way. All it takes is one checking account to be closed for you to be uneligible for any other checking account. Period.

[sando]

155. How fortunate you are

You obviously aren't disabled, or in a minority group that fights discrmination in the workplace on a daily basis. The millions of legal immigrants don't get into this country unless they can show they have employment. The illegal immigrants don't pay taxes generally because they are being paid under the table. Don't compare apples and oranges.

[minavasht]

159. For all intents and purposes I am disabled -

had a back surgery an year ago.

[sando]

160. I'm sorry to hear

You had back surgery. So are you wheel chair bound? Does your income consist of SSDI or SSI? Do you own a vehicle and the income to keep gas in it through the month and put groceries on the table? Are your circumstances the same as those living in the 9th ward of NO?

[Bridget Burke]

162. "Illegal" immigrants pay plenty of taxes.

Perhaps no Income Tax--although some use fake SS#'s, so they pay & get nothing in return.

Texas has no State Income Tax, so we have a growing Sales Tax--which everybody pays. And Property Taxes also affect rents. Landlords DO pass on increases to their tenants.

[sando]

165. I am a native Texan

Everybody is paying plenty of secondary taxes ie those taxes handed down to consumers, however most illegals do NOT pay federal taxes because to do so is to usually get a trip back across the border and employers love to pay them under the table because they don't have to pay any payroll taxes. I wasn't making the point to disparage illegals, I was making the point regarding the poor in this nation period regardless of their citizenship.

[sando]

152. AMEN

Those who haven't lived it yet and they will eventually as the poverty rate in this nation continues to skyrocket will one day truly know just how hard it can be to get a checking account. And this is also one of the problems that keeps putting people like Bush in power, even among the poor there are those who point to themselves and say I'm better than that poor person. I live in Midland where Bush claims to have learned his values and the number of run down, beat up homes that house poor Latinos and working white poor with Bush/Chenney signs was astounding. I just keep hoping one day they will learn that the GOP doesn't give a rats patooty about them.

[superconnected]

59. This strikes me as very odd

In my Area - Seattle, anyone can have a bank account. You just have to have proper ID. I've never head of anyone refused before.

Aside from that, I know a 21 yo who has a bank account problem because she is so poor she over draws the account, even by a few dollars and can't pay the overdraft fees. Then she can't access her account even when she deposits her paychek into it because she has to call the bank and have them do something so her ATM card will work again. This is my niece with who got pregnant at 15 and now has a 5 yo. She's working poor.

I wonder how many really poor people can sustain an account. I doubt they could.

[rinsd]

125. That's weird.....

I moved to San Diego 8 years ago when I was 22. I was making $16K at the time and while I was denied a credit card at Union Bank of California, I got a checking account, savings account, ATM etc. I had never had a checking account before.

I didn't qualify for for the no fees checking account and the service was limited (in deposits, which checks I received back etc) but I still had an account.

[Bill McBlueState]

80. that's a good point

It's amazing all the struggles the poor face, and how even someone with a modest income can't fathom these things unless they're unusually perceptive or compassionate.

[True_Blue]

66. The poor get penalized with late payment fees, overdraft charges

which helps to keep them in a hole. It's hard to dig yourself out of a hole when you live paycheck to paycheck. I've noticed a lot of payday loan places popping up in the last few years.

A lot of the people that are in poverty today were in the middle class when Clinton was President.

[raccoon]

76. I've notices a lot of those springing up in the last few years, too.

"I've noticed a lot of payday loan places popping up in the last few years."

Also, car title loan places too.

Thrift stores too. Which to me indicates a sagging economy but can be a good thing in that people are recycling stuff instead of throwing it away. And sometimes you can find good stuff there.

[sando]

166. A lot of those people

when Clinton was President were like me most likely and just staring to grab onto the last rung of the middle class. You still live paycheck to paycheck but you have a little bit more left over to buy a few more things. And when many of the jobs that were created by Clinton disappeared thanks to outsourcing they went right back into the working poor class.

You know I remember a time when there were no overdraft charges on checks by the bank and merchant when a check bounced. Actually what these overdraft charges amount to is a nothing more than a fine imposed on people by the corporation without having to process a criminal complaint through the courts where a person is supposed to have the right to face their accusers.

[illuminaughty]

68. Give me those cats!

Sorry, I didn't think anything could make me smile while reading through these threads tonight. (family is north of Houston and in bullseye in Louisiana) So, my nerves are rather frayed. Then, I saw your babies. Is Neo a Burmese? Your profile says San Fran and I was just there a few weeks ago and was looking into getting another Burmese from a cattery there.

Anyway, your kitties are beautiful. Thanks for the smile. And you're so right, the poor are always penalized and they are treated as disposable citizens.

[Der Blaue Engel]

122. Lol

This morning, I would gladly have packed them both up and shipped them to you, gratis. They woke me at 5:00 a.m. with a growling/face-off contest that culminated in screaming, fur-flying insanity. Sometimes they really, really suck.

And then they look at me all cute and furry and do that little baby meow and dammit, I hafta keep 'em. :)

Neo was a stray so I don't know what his heritage is. He normally just looks like a typical black domestic shorthair, but in sunlight, you can see that he's actually a deep chocolate color with ebony stripes.

My partner jokingly made up a breed for him when he was a kitten, and it has stuck: we call him a Burmese Bitey-Face. :D

[illuminaughty]

147. Neo sounds like a sable Burmese, especially if he has gold eyes

I have a sable and a champagne. One reason we always get Burmese is because they never fight (unless it's the slo-mo fake kind) and they curl up with each other.

They let my 3 yr. olds (dance studio students) pass them around and never scratch or bite. Amazing temperament. But they are howlers...love to scream for no apparent reason.

Thanks for the info. Pet em for me.

[progressivebydesign]

25. ATMs have daily limits of 400 bux, which wont' go far. n/t

[CottonBear]

3. If we had a really good European style National Train System

(I'm thinking of the German Bundesbahn) in addition to more long distance coach lines (buses)then we would have so many fewer problems when this type of evacuation must occur. Fuel efficient cars would help too.

[Frances]

5. But the Repubs want to abandon Amtrak

Does this make sense?

[CottonBear]

11. Of course it doesn't make sense to us but it makes perfect sense to Repubs

:(

[KittyWampus]

34. Perhaps we can now make the case for mass transit as national security

issue?

[Castilleja]

138. A train system would be great for this as well as

everyday transit. I also think coastal cities need to rethink the idea that evacuating an entire area is feasible. There must be places built very strong for the purpose of sheltering in place when you have to. Evacuate if you like, and have the means to, but for gods sake stop making that the only option.

[MidwestTransplant]

4. Stupid Mayor Nagin. Him and Clenis are responsible for this.

[Tatiana]

6. This is all Mayor Nagin's and Governor Blanco's fault. n/t

[Lindacooks]

7. One thing I do not understand: Why didn't they have contraflow??

I've seen many aerial pictures of the evacuation, with the north and west bound lanes totally clogged and the south and east bound lanes with one or two cars travelling on them. Why didn't they reverse the southbound lane directions yesterday? Surely those one or two cars a minute could use back roads.

[JuniperLea]

8. Good question....

Why wasn't this something learned from Katrina, where we saw the exact same scene in New Orleans????

[illuminaughty]

69. You know the definition of insanity.

Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Our govt. is certifiable.

[xray s]

10. Because the idiot Govenor hasn't ordered it!

BushCo Govenor Perry is an ass.

[Lindacooks]

15. Ah, yes, Governor Goodhair. That figures.

What an ass.

[0007]

16. They have everything under control except their zippers


Two slickers on a one way street

[Changenow]

33. Who is that with chimp

Gov Goodhair?

[0007]

35. You got it Toyota!

[Changenow]

46. If that were a man and a woman

there wouldn't be any doubt from anyone about their attractions. There isn't anyway, but no one will see it.

[Gormy Cuss]

17. Care to take any bets on whether Perry will be blamed like Blanco?

Didn't think so. He'll do a fine job just like Barbour.:sarcasm:

[raccoon]

77. let me guess: Blanco is Democratic,

Barbour and Perry are Republicans.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

19. They do have contra flow

The problem is, it starts in Conroe, about 45 miles north of Houston, so you have to go that far before it clears up.

In addition, it's weird, but the films I saw showed the left two lanes going contraflow while the right 2 lanes went the usual way, and the congestion did not seem to be easing.

[lavenderdiva]

41. they have never done contraflow before today...

the mayor of Houston called Gov. Perry today, to get the thing started, and he did approve it. Problem was, they have to block off the exits for more than 80 miles in the contraflow lanes before they can let the traffic start flowing that way. When you have as many highways and freeways as we do here in Houston (I live here), that is one tall order. Also, soooo many people decided to evacuate here, after seeing what the people in Louisiana went through with Katrina, I think the roads were overwhelmed. Being the nation's 4th largest city, the order to evacuate is a tremendous undertaking.

[Polemicist]

64. I dealt with the same traffic problem in SC....

evacuating from Hurricane Floyd, I think it was. I've evacuated so many times, that I forget the names, but I think it was in 1996.

I sat in traffic for hours and hours. It took me 8 hours to get from Charleston to Columbia and I left before most people. Many people behind me, ended up turning around and going back to their houses, rather than get stuck on the highway during the storm.

Luckily, it was a near miss and didn't hit us in Charleston, or it would have been a disaster. And the reason was, the State of South Carolina didn't have an emergency plan to reverse the interstates.

Texas is learning the same lesson we did in that storm, and they are idiots not to learn from South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and the other states that have coped with huge evacuations. You can't decide at the last minute to reverse the interstates. It's not that simple.

There has to be a plan set up in advance, for the state and local police to block all the exits and especially the entrances to the highway. If not you will have head on collisions. And to try to develop such a detailed plan and a lot resources to do the job after the highways are already clogged with cars is almost impossible.

They managed to reverse the traffic in South Carolina in 1996 with a herculean effort and we have about 1/4 the population Texas has. We had a Democratic Governor at that time and he lost his re-election primarily because he screwed up the hurricane evacuation. I have never been so angry at my government for their gross incompetence and negligence in planning.

A few years later, I had to evacuate again. This time a plan was in place and they reversed the interstates and some secondary roads as well. The order to reverse the interstates was at the same time the evacuation order was given. A plan was in place and it went very smoothly. And everybody could get out of town.

A better plan is to both reverse the interstates and evacuate by zip codes. Move them from the coast first and then from inland. If everybody had faith in the system and waits their turn, traffic flows well and gasoline supplies don't run out, cause nobody's stuck and not moving.

Texas has screwed the pooch. I just hope then can get them off the roads before the storm hits. I predict a lot of people will turn around an go back home.

[raccoon]

79. that surprises me.

" the State of South Carolina didn't have an emergency plan to reverse the interstates."

I didn't have to evacuate for Hugo (1989), but I was told by somebody in the Lowcountry that for the Hugo evacuation the officials had both sides of I-26 going away from the coast.

[Polemicist]

131. If they had such a plan...

They didn't implement it during Floyd. At least during the first 24 to 48 hours of the evacuation. I know, I was stuck in the traffic. And I had many friends who left after me that turned around and went back.

Two things saved us from tens of thousands of people being stuck on the roads when the storm hit. First and most importantly, the storm veered to the north and we only got a glancing blow. Secondly, somehow they finally got the interstates reversed and cleared the traffic.

The fear of being stuck in traffic with a killer storm bearing down on you is horrible. And when people are scared like that, they become very angry. Like I said before, I've never seen so many people more mad at their government than at that time.

I was not here during Hugo, I moved here the next year. But I do recall lots of people saying, "why won't they reverse the interstates, they did before".

Sometimes governments have to relearn the same lessons over and over. Administrations change and a whole new group comes in to run things, sometimes without any experience. It is a weakness of our system, that can only be prevented by having a professional, permanent bureaus in control of things like emergency management, not partisan politicos that change every 4 years. And thankfully, major hurricanes don't historically hit the same area very often. So the people that learned the lessons from the last hurricane aren't in power when the next one occurs.

It's the same thing that happened to Bush's FEMA. The decision makers were inexperienced. They were patrionage appointments with no professional qualifications. And they made a bunch of mistakes. It happens at the state and local levels also.

[FlaGranny]

95. Contraflow is

ONE thing Florida has done very well, I must admit. Of course, lots of experience with it.

[kestrel91316]

42. Well that genius governor Perry finally caught on to the contraflow

concept after two days of impossible traffic, and today they started it. With 36 hours to landfall. GREAT JOB, Rick Baby.

[merwin]

18. Skinner is stuck in Houston?

[DeepModem Mom]

21. Not unless he sometimes uses the name "Wilma" Skinner!

:D

[merwin]

39. Well, I don't know what he does when he's not on DU

[Igel]

20. Too many people decided to pick up and leave; the roads only

can hold so many vehicles. I'm in an apt. building that should do fine--broken windows, probably no flooding, unless we get 6-8 inches in an hour. But most people left last night, to sit on the freeways all night. My in-laws said we should do likewise, and I wrote back saying she was insane: there'd be nearly a million people in cars on four highways leaving Harris County, and I couldn't imagine sane people would think that would go smoothly. I figured people would assume Katrina's results awaited Houston, and panic. The state evacuation plan didn't make that assumption.

Contraflow was instituted, eventually, with bugs: something considered, but not well worked out. Still, the entire contraflow freeway dumps into a small town, and that just moves the congestion.

I just got back from near the northern border of Houston. Clear all the way. I assume the congestion is further north.

Since it doesn't affect me, I've ignored the announcements about those in mandatory evacuation zones that need assistance in leaving. I know there is some.

Keep in mind that there's still 21 hours before high winds are expected in Houston. A lot of people have gotten out already; most that are still here will be staying.

[malaise]

30. This is now total confusion

The Houston governor is now telling people not to leave home given the traffic mess, but the weather man on CNN is now saying that Rita has turned left again and while it could be a wobble, Houston is not out of the picture.

This is unbelievable chaos.

[Igel]

88. The chaos is because people have panicked.

When people panic, you get chaos.

They were interviewing people yesterday on the local news. Almost to a person, they said they saw what Katrina did to NOLA. OK, somebody from Galveston or Kemah, I could see that. But not most of Houston.

The newscasters weren't helping the panic.

[Castilleja]

139. very much agreed!

Freaking out.

[barb162]

52. so are you leaving if the traffic clears out?

[Igel]

150. Sort of pointless posting after the fact;

nNoo, I wasn't planning on leaving. I bagged stuff in case we got an inch of water (which would be severe flooding indeed) or a windows broke. I had a radio, a propane camp stove, fluorescent camp light, water, food, and stuff to read for the day-light hours.

Otherwise, I'm in an area of Houston that seldom floods. Like most of it. Winds don't kill, severe floods kill.

[420inTN]

22. How long would it take to evacuate NYC or LA?

Normal traffic congestion is bad enough, what would it be like if a mandatory evacuation was declared for NYC or LA?

The problem with Houston was everyone taking the main highways out. I heard one story on the radio of a guy who has GPS that used the back roads, and was out in 5 hours. Just another reason to have a Rand-McNally road Atlas in my car.

[aquart]

26. We DO have buses and trains. We have Amtrak. Path. LIRR. Ferries.

Our subways are used to heavy traffic.

But we still couldn't all get out easily.

[420inTN]

91. How many subways go out of the city?

how long does it take a ferry to do a round trip? how many people does each ferry hold? how many people per hour can get across by ferry? once they get across, where do they go? what if they have to get further inland? how do they get from the ferry dock?

same with the light rail... now the trains can hold a lot more people, but how long does it take round trip? how many stops does it make? how do you schedule the stops? which stops do you make? what if you have a scheduled stop to pick up more people, but you are already at 100% capacity?

[glugglug]

124. The bigger problem with the subways

is that since Bloomberg has been mayor, if it's not either 8-11AM or 4-6:30PM on a weekday, odds are the line you want along with the next most convenient 6 lines are closed for construction, stopped for a police investigation, stopped for a track fire, and/or being held for an "earlier incident". And that's under normal circumstances.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

47. Fuggedabouditit... and where would you go?

CT? NJ? no matter which way you went you would run into just as many people.

Just getting LI evaced would be a disaster.

NYC?
Ha.

[Pirate Smile]

55. What have the Feds been doing since 9/11? I can see all the

planning in case of a "major terrorist attack" or "dirty bomb" (whatever)without days and days of warning.

Hey, Chicago, there is radiation in the air, everybody get out now, your families are breathing toxic shit and going to die (I know that isn't what would a dirty bomb would really mean) but just imagine the panic and everyone rushing to get out with no notice or time to prepare.

We can tell BushCo has been really planning for these disasters, can't we?

Planning? That would require some type of governing skills. Call Bush and Rove when it is time for a photo-op and they will take care of it - unless Georgie is on vacation and Karl has stones.

[420inTN]

90. Re: "We can tell BushCo has been really planning for these disasters"

How do you evacuate millions of people from a city in a short timespan?

You can't. The problem is our infrastructure doesn't support mass evacuations. You'd have to have several 20-lane highways to do that.

[Pirate Smile]

93. They seem to be winging it every time. Some problems are

predictable.

[420inTN]

133. So, what's your solution to getting 2 million people out of a city? n/t

[Pirate Smile]

135. Better planning and awareness of problems with gas shortages that

will obviously ensue, quicker contraflow solutions. Figuring this shit out is supposed to be their jobs.

[420inTN]

142. There's not always a good, or right, answer. n/t

[glugglug]

123. to evacuate NYC

would take only a few hours... I mean you could just walk it. Like everyone did during the blackout.

Long Island, on the other hand, absolutely would not be able to evacuate within a week.

[Xithras]

130. LA = 7-10 days

Dunno about NYC, but there was a drill a few years ago that modelled the effects of a major (i.e. 9.0) earthquake in downtown LA. They determined that it would take 7-10 days to get most of the population out to relief centers in the desert, and that a huge number of them would die while waiting for medical attention (an EQ of that magnitude would level the hospitals). That figure also assumes that the freeways are still passable which, if history is any indicator, won't be the case.

If you live in LA, you really should have at least a weeks worth of supplies in your house. A massive quake there will make New Orleans look like a friggin Sunday school picnic.

[malaise]

27. Did anyone hear the governor on MSNBC

blaming the people for all leaving and therefore creating gridlock. Bushco and hurricanes is a different version of comedy central. He then said they'll learn from this.
Isn't this the same man who was showing off about his plans yesterday.
Edit -sp.

[raccoon]

81. The governor blamed the people for leaving and causing

a gridlock? Wasn't it a mandatory evacuation?

[malaise]

84. Apaprently even people who did not have to leave

are on the highways. This evacuation needed the best engineers. These hacks have fucked up again.

edit -sp and removed word.

[truthisfreedom]

28. they should have refill trucks that patrol the highway on the shoulder,

looking for stranded motorists out of gas. this should be a required city vehicle for emergencies like this.

[raccoon]

82. A good idea.

Is somebody patrolling for cars that break down? Overheat or whatever? What happens to them?

[Xipe Totec]

29. If this is what can happen when we have days to evacuate,

imagine the situation if we had an actual terrorist attack, and only minutes to clear out.

There is no way to dodge it, except for the super-rich.

[Lisa]

32. it sure does make a mockery of Cold War civil defense propaganda!

Okay, admittedly many North American cities have grown quite a bit, in population and area, since the "Dr. Strangelove" era. But remember what they used to tell us, in the 1980s -- there'd be less than 30 minutes warning before an ICBC hit its target, or something like that?

Clear a city, or even a good-sized town, in that time? Forget it.

[union_maid]

31. A friend of mine is stuck

She's a middle aged woman, alone, who's had health problems recently. She tried to go, but she was running out of gas before she even got anywhere to speak of. She managed to get back home and is hoping to ride it out.

[iamjoy]

36. I Have Family Riding It Out

my husband's aunt and her husband live in Richmond (30 miles southwest of Houston). They don't pay attention to the nes, so they have no clue what a hurricane can really do. At first I thought they were crazy for trying to ride out a Category 4/5 storm in a frame house, but when I see the traffic snarls, I'm not sure I blame them.

I asked my husband (we live in Orlando) if a hurricane with 150 mph winds were poised to strike Cape Canveral and cut across the coast, would we evacuate. I said I probably wouldn't want to deal with the traffic, worried about running out of gas or pushing a car in 100 degree weather. He said we have a block house which should hold. I reminded him we have a gable roof which would probably completely fail in a Category 4 storm.

[Hun Joro]

45. I am also riding it out...

I was planning to leave this morning, but after seeing the traffic horror on television, and the thought of being in gridlock traffic for an unforseeable time with panicking cats and a dog, I decided to stay. Better here than on the road when the storm hits. My daughter and her family left Angleton (~50 miles southwest-ish from Houston) at 11 last night, heading for Austin. She called me this evening around 5...they had made it to Tomball (just north of Houston). At least they found a place to fill up the gas tank. I have lived on the Texas gulf coast all my life, but for the first time I am seriously thinking about relocating...Pacific Northwest, maybe? This no longer seems like a good place to be....

[DeepModem Mom]

49. We're with you, Hun Joro -- keep us posted. nt

[Polemicist]

65. Those staying, go to a strong shelter....

Find a significant building, a school, or auditorium, or church made of block or masonry. Most shelters opened in most cities are such buildings and emergency planners have located those on high ground.

The problem with such a hurricane is first storm surge. Find out the low lying areas of town and if you are in one, get out.

The second problem is tornadoes. A major hurricane is absolutely filled with tornadoes that will destroy anything they touch. Wood structures stand very little chance. I've seen trees so large that two people couldn't put their arms around snapped like twigs. After Hugo, there were forests of trees snapped in half as far as the eye could see.

You can't imagine the power a 3, 4, or 5 hurricane has.

If you have to stay in your house, board up the windows, and get in the center hallway with the doors to all the rooms closed. Windowless bathrooms are also ok. If you are on high ground and have a basement safe from flooding, go there.

But if you can still leave, leave. I know almost no one here in Charleston that rode out Hugo, a cat 3 storm, that would stay again. Leave, please, please leave, if the roads are clear enough and you have gas.

The only thing that can truly ensure your safety is distance from the storm. 100 miles inland means everything.

[Lochloosa]

43. DeepModem Mom...I just knew you would be all over this one...

[DeepModem Mom]

48. I'm on it, Lochloosa!

:hi:

[Whoa_Nelly]

51. Could there ever be an ORGANIZED evacuation?

Such as, people in ceratin areas get to leave between 6AM-7AM, next 7-8AM, so the traffic is controlled, people know ahead of time what their time would be and are advised to get gas, supplies 24 hours prior to their leave time...those without cars will have evacuation transportation (buses, trains) ready for them...visitors must conclude business dealings and leave 24 hours prior to city mandated evac. time...

Dunno...:shrug:
just an idea...

[bobbieinok]

54. this demands a community feeling, NOT a me-me-me attitude

there would possibly be people trying to leave early and people fearing this would happen so they'd try to leave early etc.........

[yowzayowzayowza]

63. You'd think that our government would...

at the very LEAST insure that gas and food be readily available along the MANDATORY evacuation route.... but, alas, we are guaranteed to be at the mercy of the weather as well as the market. Civilization? What civilization! Itz at best jus a well manicured jungle.

[doc03]

53. Us country folks are looked down on by the people

in the big cities. We may not make as much money as city folk but we have little crime, fresh air and no traffic jams. Whenever I have to to go to a large city I wonder why on earth people would want to live like that. "Country folks will survive"

[superconnected]

60. I don't care what the population is.

The police should have been there getting stopped vehicals moved to the side and keeping traffic moving.

In my area this happens at Rush hour everyday.

Apparently the cops did not do their job and it got so bad too many vehicals ran out of gas from having to wait so long. I suspect the problem is escalating further as people wait - medical conditions kick in and they can't get to a hospital, violence from being in that kind of situation will affect some people, people will just abandon their cars and have them blocking, etc.

I blame the feds who apparently aren't there helping the evacuation on the freeway, even though they called for it, and the local and state police. They should be on motorcycles and keeping traffic moving.

[opihimoimoi]

61. I got friends in Texas and they tell me they are PISSED.....

The unfolding exodus caught in a gridlock?? How can this be?

[yowzayowzayowza]

67. Mrs Yowza spent Thurs in the ER...

despite the hospital being closed dealing mostly with evacuation related folkz. Lotza breathing difficulties, heat exhaustion and other probz exacerbated by the evacuation. Several people were very upset; she had to call security a coupla times to get 'em calmed down.

There are families on the roadside all over the place frequently congregating at the empty gas stations. Tomorrow mid-day we may find one who haven't been able to find gas to take in during the storm passage.

[superconnected]

62. So basically the plan for rita is already a disaster.

The administration will say we're still learning.. of course.

So what if Florida pulls this off several times a year.

[illuminaughty]

70. Oh yeah, my family is now pissed

Just two days ago they were dissin' Nagin and now they are in this mess in Houston.

Get this though. My niece who teaches in Groveton, TX still had to go to school today. And my brother who teaches in Oberlin, LA. (bullseye at this point for the hurricane) not only had to teach, but was expected to work a football game this evening. They actually had the football game, then people ran screaming into cars to evacuate. Stupid.

[PDittie]

71. Houston evac is a clusterfuck

I spent six hours on I-45 northbound yesterday afternoon, and traveled SIX MILES, burning half a tank of gas, before turning around and going home.

Houstonian reference: I traveled from just north of the Loop (Crosstimbers) to the Beltway between 12:30 and 6:30 pm.

Cars stopped everywhere due to empty gas tanks and overheated cars. It was nearly 100 degrees here yesterday afternoon, and most of the drivers beside me had their windows down, trying to save fuel. Stop and go -- mostly stop -- for the entire time I was in it.

I peed into a Dasani water bottle so I didn't have to pull over (sure hadn't done that in a long time).

There's thousands of people stranded on the road, no gas in their cars, no gas in the pumps, and no help coming (despite the ass-covering I'm hearing on local media).

Several people died yesterday on the road; someone on ABC-13 let that news slip out, but the coroner's office isn't saying how many or what they died of.

Interstate 45 north of Houston could conceivably be a Highway of Death tomorrow night. It's still clogged at Huntsville as I write this. There's no gasoline to buy at any price, and there won't be for several days (into next week) or possibly weeks (the refineries are all shut down). The authorities say they're trucking fuel tankers in, but when pressed by a local reporter, admitted that no one has been refueled; "We're still working on the logistics of that".

Seems to be working as well as the contraflow lanes. That was a colossal fuckup by TxDOT, and there is going to be hell to pay for Rick Perry if we find bodies all over the road on Sunday. I'm serious; I think people are going to be taking shelter under highway bridges from this storm.

Maybe it won't be all this bad, but if it turns out such, you won't hear about in the MSM.

Today I'll go over to the in-laws' on the NW side of town (Copperfield area) -- and join Papi, Mami (es Cubano) BIL, SIL, three nephews ages 6-11 -- and ride Rita out.

No shelter unless the house becomes inhabitable. Shelters few and far between, and no gas to get there anyway.

Mrs. Dittie, worried sick about us, will fly from Chicago to D-FW (instead of Houston) this evening where she has a comfortable hotel room reserved, and from where she will catch her flight to Washington Monday morning.

She always misses all the fun ...

I won't be online much after this post, and then mostly over in the Texas forum, checking on my friends and yours. Don't be alarmed if you don't hear from me for awhile.

This city is going to move backwards for a few days, perhaps a lot like New Orleans (but different, because the freepers are going to be sharing some of the suffering this go-round).

[Massachusetts]

72. FUBAR 2

[DeepModem Mom]

73. Thanks for this report, PDittie. We're with you here.

:grouphug:

[Stil]

86. To the east

That's the way I headed. Did a back road run to get out of town. Once I got out of Houston my options on evacuating dropped to about zero. Spent a lot of time stopped just trying to figure out possible routes out further. Every political office had to be on the radio patting themselves on the back saying how good of job they were doing. I really don't need that on the road. Give me information on hurricane landfall, and status or times of routes out of Houston. Something I could use.

Most people on the road seemed pretty sane just tense and aggravated. Mainly about the two items above. A family going to family in San Antonio trying to get to I.H. 10 being forced to get on 59 (Runs south-west along the coast,) worried they would not have enough gas since the got rerouted out of their way. Ended up waiting till we felt the benefits of going back were more then the benefits of evac. . My 6 hour trip out turned in to a return trip of 45 minutes.

[samplegirl]

89. Hello Houston

This clearly what they would of seen in N.O. as well if everyone
could of evacuated.

[DS1]

92. Answer me that. Riddle me this.

What does a person living in an "ownership society" expect from a local government full of corrupt officials bent on furthering the wealth and fortune of their friends?

[WestHoustonDem]

94. After 12 hours in traffic, 2 1/2 to get gas we only made

it to Brenham and came home. The fact that we got gas was a miracle. I started a thread on it here:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=180x20710

There are many other DUers still stuck here. I think we'll be okay but yesterday sucked. There should have been no inbound lanes on any road with a feeder.

[Kailassa]

96. Exodus from Rita’s wrath slow going

Exodus from Rita’s wrath slow going

‘‘This is the worst planning I’ve ever seen,’’ said Judie Anderson, who covered just 72 kilometres in 12 hours after setting out from her home in the Houston suburb LaPorte. ...

In all, nearly two million people along the Texas and Louisiana coasts were urged to move out of the way of Rita, a 640-kilometre-wide storm that weakened Thursday from a top-of-the-scale Category 5 hurricane to a Category 4 as it swirled across the Gulf of Mexico. ...

Drivers ran out of gas in 14-hour traffic jams or looked in vain for a place to stay as hotels filled up all the way to the Oklahoma and Arkansas line. Others became tired of waiting in traffic and turned around and went home. ...

Ewing said the car had moved just 2.2 kilometres in 4 1/2 hours, but they were glad to be on the less congested Interstate 90. ‘‘If we run out of gas I don’t know what we’re going to do,’’ Ewing said. ...

http://www.brandonsun.com/story.php?story_id=4703

[seemslikeadream]

97. But Monica Crowely said on Imus this morning

everything was going so well in Texas since bush learned the lessons of Katrina

[Pirate Smile]

101. Does Monica's kool-aid hat look like this?

[Pirate Smile]

98. Kilometers? This must some furiners paper. LOL.

:evilgrin:

Planning? All the planning is focused on Bush's photo-ops.

[Comadreja]

99. If anything it shows the foolishness of relying on highways alone.

There is supposed to be an Amtrak station there. But probably no passenger cars, thanks to GOP cuts.

[iamjoy]

100. My Husband's Family Couldn't Evacuate

His cousin, cousin't girlfriend and grandmother tried, but after almost an hour in which they went 2 miles, they figured that was ridiculous and went home.

So, while not blaming anyone, part of disaster planning really needs to be looking at evacuation plans, because 2 million people on the road at once just doesn't work.

[AllegroRondo]

104. News this morning reported a lot of that

people going back to Houston because traffic was so bad and gas was impossible to find.

When do they start finger pointing and blaming the Mayor and Governor?

[WestHoustonDem]

102. After 15 hours on the road yesterday

we came back to Houston. It took 2 1/2 hours to get gas in Brenham and only an hour to get back home. It was a nightmare. Luckily, I'm not in a high risk zone, and my home didn't flood during Allison, so we should be okay.

[wellstone_democrat]

103. Obviously these people are lying Democrats!

Seriously, the new programs in central and west Texas talk of "little delays" and the "usual complications" in something so massive but they have heard from our Asshole Governor that everything here in Texas is *wonderful* jut *wonderful* and the President says so too


so....these people are either mistaken or lying to make Our Glorious Leaders "look bad"

essentially---that is a paraphrase of the opinions of my west Texas co-workers today. the MSM is trying "to make the President and republican governors "look bad"


shoot me now

[Sub Atomic]

106. Many Poor Residents Stuck in Houston

Many Poor Residents Stuck in Houston
By DEBORAH HASTINGS, AP


HOUSTON (Sept. 23) - Wilma Skinner would like to scream at the officials of this city. If only they would pick up their phones.
"I done called for a shelter, I done called for help. There ain't none. No one answers," she said, standing in blistering heat outside a check-cashing store that had just run out of its main commodity. "Everyone just says, 'Get out, get out.' I've got no way of getting out. And now I've got no money."

With Hurricane Rita breathing down Houston's neck, those with cars were stuck in gridlock trying to get out. Those like Skinner _ poor, and with a broken-down car _ were simply stuck, and fuming at being abandoned, they say.

"All the banks are closed and I just got off work," said Thomas Visor, holding his sweaty paycheck as he, too, tried to get inside the store, where more than 100 people, all of them black or Hispanic, fretted in line. "This is crazy. How are you supposed to evacuate a hurricane if you don't have money? Answer me that?"

.snip.

"This is the worst planning I've ever seen," she said. "They say, 'We've learned a lot from Hurricane Katrina.' Well, you couldn't prove it by me."

On Bellaire Boulevard in southwest Houston, a weeping woman and her young daughter stood on the sidewalk, surrounded by plastic bags full of clothes and blankets. "I'd like to go, but nobody come get me," the woman said in broken English. When asked her name, she looked frightened. "No se, no se," she said: Spanish for "I don't know."


.more.


This is sickening. When is this fuck up of an administration going to be held accountable for their actions and lack thereof?

[bluestateguy]

107. There outta be a law

If you have more than one vacant seat in your car, you must take one additional person with you.

[AndyTiedye]

121. At Least One Seat May Be Taken Up by Food and Water

especially if you have a small car (Oh, wait, this is Texas, there aren't any small cars there. Never mind).

[Sgent]

108. This is unreal

At least in LA they had city buses take persons who couldn't evacuate to the superdome or convention center.

Not perfect BY ANY MEANS, but it kept a lot of people alive.

[sando]

109. There were those of us who knew this would happen with Bush

There were more than a few people in Texas that were screaming as loud as they could trying to warn the nation of what the US would look like after a Bush presidency but no one listened. No one in the mainstream press seems to have done much research into his highnesses royal screw ups while governor of Texas and before that as a businessman who failed at every business he ever went into. I think I can safely nominate Bush as the worst screw-up the nation has ever known. He makes Taft, Harding, and Hoover look positivley fantastic. The only hope that I have left is that after Rita and Katrina what were once red states will vote blue in the coming 2006 election.

[calimary]

118. From your mouth to God's ear. Welcome to DU!!! Yes, we DID scream.

And you didn't have to be a Texan to see it, either. We begged! We warned! We PLEADED for reason. We nagged and implored the media to do their jobs but they were just too taken in by that absolute need for those cutesy nicknames, weren't they?

It's disgusting. Disgraceful. Abominable. We TRIED. I can remember almost literally pleading with some of my friends and acquaintances NOT to be swayed, to see the truth, to see that this guy was nothing but a stuffed shirt.

I still remember the sense of foreboding I felt after December 12th, 2000. When they paraded him out to make some remarks after SCOTUS had handed him the election, and the lead Democrat in the Texas legislature was presented to introduce him - in a "show" of unity, I swear I will never forget it. It was this vague but gnawing feeling that we were in for big trouble. I didn't even really know why, other than what I already knew about him (bad enough, although not as complete a picture as I've developed since then). I remember just thinking "uh-oh... this isn't gonna be good. This isn't gonna be good." Just this vague, sickly feeling that this was going to be bad. But SHIT...I had no idea.

[pushycat]

119. calimary you say it all for me - thnks eom

[Solly Mack]

110. the poor get screwed...again..as usual

and the band plays on

[ChickMagic]

111. Quite a few people turned back

when faced with at least a 24 hour drive into Dallas. They are running out of fuel, the elderly and babies are having a hard time in 100 degree heat without air conditioning (to conserve gas). It looks like Beaumont is going to take the direct hit, so Houston will be on the less fierce side of the storm. Still, it's all relative.

I lived in a low lying place in Houston during Hurricane Carla and Houston took a direct hit. We had family in Dallas, so we evacuated.
I remember how bad it was in Dallas because Carla tracked directly through here.

It's looking like the worst will be east of Dallas (not by much) between Tyler and Shreveport this far north.

This is reminding me of all the evacuation routes should a missle be directed our way. We'd have about 45 minutes warning and there would be an orderly evacuation. Now that seems like the old duck and cover routine.

I'm still having problems processing my grief about New Orleans. I am simply overwhelmed - I do not wish to see my fellow Americans lying dead in the street for an ungodly amount of time.

Be safe. My thoughts are with all those affected. I loathe the fact that Bushler gets a Hurricane Mulligan. Although, things are still not well.

[trogdor]

113. Looks like the mulligan is going into the lake.

[yellowcanine]

112. I also heard there were many SUVs pulling boats. Can anyone confirm this?

A SUV will get even WORSE gas mileage pulling a boat and many of them were running out of gas. Geez ya would think residents would have been told to leave their boats behind. No?

[glugglug]

127. The boat makes a better projectile when the winds hit.

[sando]

154. You can bet your bottom dollar

There were trucks and SUV's pulling boats. I saw several on the freeways leaving Houston. They know a huuricane force can deposit their boat in another county.

[Stand and Fight]

114. This nation has no concern for the poor or minorities.

What a cesspool of racist bigotry and idiocy. America is lost.

[sando]

156. A truer statement never said

Amen

[Pepper32]

115. After everything that happened after Katrina....

they still don't care about the poor and elderly. What will be the excuse now? :grr:

[calimary]

116. This quote says it all:

"They say, 'We've learned a lot from Hurricane Katrina.' Well, you couldn't prove it by me."

HELLO? IDIOTS!!! They saw full-well what happened after Katrina. They HAD to know that we are NOT out of hurricane season and that conditions didn't just somehow magically change so that future storms would be more mile. They HAD to know there would be evacuation problems for those who couldn't afford better (or ANY) transportation. And they still haven't gotten it together? What were they all doing, watching television? Actually, it's pretty clear that some of 'em didn't even bother doing that (besides bush, of course).

[Igel]

117. Imagine NOLA after Katrina without levee failure.

That's most of Houston. I could swear I remember great sighs of relief.

The mandatory evacuation areas had buses to evacuate the poor. These are in areas that will likely see significant flooding. There are other flood-prone areas scattered around the city, and I don't know what the plans are for those spots.

Nursing homes in non-mandatory areas are following their own evacuation plans. Those in mandatory evacuation areas are being evacuated.

The poor--and the middle class people, and upper class people--that have remained will have to avoid falling trees, things flying through windows, and the like.

[kostya]

120. According to the discussion of Rita at NHC, it appears

that the effects of Rita on TX and LA could be even worse than Katrina. Not from the wind necessarily, but the tracking says it will probably hover after landfall and bring torrential rains for up to 3 days! - K

[modrepub]

128. Another Thing the NHC Anticipated

I don't how many times I've seen a director of the NHC point out this very scenario. Due to the unpredictability of hurricane forecasting the NHC has about a 36 hour window for evacuations. They've always been worried that all the build-up along the coast would cause havoc during an emergency evacuation when you try to put millions of people over limited highways and transportation structures. Another big DUH on this one in my opinion.

If Rita stalls out in OK and TX over the weekend, how may of those evacuees are running right into major flooding zones? My advice, go west on this one folks!

[henslee]

129. Was it the houston mayor who made that snarky remark about NOLA,

something like, "We're not NOLA, we'll deal with the problem effectively"

[NYC]

141. I thought it was the governor,

but I'm not sure. (Governor Goodhair, Republican Rick Perry of Texas)

[tanyev]

148. Yes, it was Gov. Mofo.

Hopefully that will also return to bite him in the backside next November.

[demo dutch]

134. Everything is better in Texas... YEAH RIGHT!

[pokercat999]

140. Why no trains? I'm aware that there is limited passenger service but

in an emergency a freight car could quickly have benches installed and could be used with the doors open to provide transportation out of the danger zone.

[hayu_lol]

145. A few days ago, when the evacuation was first suggested...

Someone from Houston mentioned the fact that the southbound lanes of the highways were not being used for flight from the storm. The reason given was that "We would need troopers/police at each ramp to keep the traffic moving safely." Where is the National Guard folks...they could have had plenty of troops at the different ramps to keep traffic moving...they could have also had gas tankers to fill empty tanks all along the evacuation route.

Another mighty blow for the power of FEMA.

[sando]

157. Better yet

Amtrak could have had plenty of trains to take people from Houston to Atlanta or El Paso had the government ordered it. They rent cruise ships to the tune of a couple hundred million and could have done the same thing with passenger trains to evac people out of the way of the storm.

[Bridget Burke]

163. There aren't "plenty of trains" anywhere.

At least, not near Houston. And tracks are often in such bad condition that passenger trains can't travel at full speed.

Tracks paralleling the Katy Freeway were pulled up a couple of years ago. Now the freeway is being widened to screams from the surrounding communities. Of course, their suburban lifestyle was made convenient when inner-city neighborhoods had freeways pushed through years ago. If those tracks were still there, they would be popular with commuters & available for emergencies.

[DaDeacon]

146. QUICK blame them NOW!!!! (n/t)

[sando]

153. The whole Rita thing has been an exercise to

Try and regenerate Bush's standing in the polls. The news media and everyone they have been interviewing is doing nothing but extolling Bush and the Feds handling of Rita. I finally got so sick of listening to it I started looking at properties in Canada to move to.

[GayCanuck]

164. I love taking the train

and it's too bad that the auto, oil and tire industry systematically destroyed the train and trolley industry in the US and Canada over the years. Mass transit via environmentally safe trains and trolleys must be revisited as the only way to handle the transportation needs of people.