Families of troops counter Sheehan

[sabra]

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20050923-095159-7868r

Families of troops counter Sheehan

The Washington Times

WASHINGTON -- As Congress this week honored parents whose sons or daughters have been killed in Iraq, some families said Cindy Sheehan and her anti-war group do not represent them and are disrespecting the fallen soldiers.

"You can't call into question the integrity of the commander in chief without having it call into question the integrity of those under his command," said Diane Ibbotson, whose son Army Cpl. Forest Jostes, 21, died in April 2004 outside Baghdad.


"Let's talk about the things they've accomplished," she said, listing the end of Saddam Hussein's dictatorship, Iraq's first free elections, and the building of schools and hospitals.

...

Others had stronger words.

"What has she done, rather than bitch, gripe and complain?" said Gary Qualls, whose 20-year-old son, Marine Reserve Lance Cpl. Louis Qualls, was killed in Fallujah, Iraq, last fall.

[Demit]

1. "You can't call into question the integrity of the commander in chief

without having it call into question the integrity of those under his command"--?

Of course you can, Diane.

[Julius Civitatus]

9. Dumb statement -- it doesn't even make sense!

Seriously! Questioning the integrity of a lying sack doesn't mean all under his command are by extension lying sacks. It's basic understanding. I just don't get how someone can think this way.

:shrug:

[trogdor]

23. So if I work for a PHB, that makes me a PHB, right?

[Demeter]

50. Because It's Not Thinking--It's Regurgitating

[Gnostic]

60. But many are

I hate to say it, but many "under the command" ARE lying sacks. I don't care if they're over there, I don't care what they think they're doing for us (which is absolutely nothing short of wasting our tax dollars). Many of them are so indoctrinated, brainwashed and stupid they could'nt tell if they were being misled and lied to anyway. The others are in it for the cash.....the military is an awesome way to avoid getting a real job in the real world, and you get free housing, free clothing, free medical care, free schooling, and you never have to worry about being laid off (that is, until you get up to about 18 or 19 years in when they start trying to drum you out before you can collect a big retirement, unless of course you're a big-wig).

I just can't stand all this molly-coddling horsecrap with troops and the concerns over upsetting them. Screw them. My tax dollars pay for their paychecks, so that makes me and every other working civilian out here their real bosses. If they don't want to be criticized or dishonored, they should consider that, because I have news for this wench.....while it may be true Cindy does'nt speak for all of THEM, THIS clown Diane CERTAINLY does'nt speak for all of us taxpayers and concerned, enlightened, and educated civilians who are PAYING for this fiasco and for their dumb brats to be over there playing GI Joe Amerikan Heeeeroooo against our wishes and better judgements.

How do you like me NOW?

The only ones i feel sorry for were the troops who enlisted BEFORE 9-11, and got caught up in the lying mess that is Iraq. I have talked to many of them, they hate it, resent the fact they are forced to be over there fighting a farcical war, and say the conditions over there are NOT getting better but worse by the day.

I support the troops. BRING EM HOME and quit wasting our treasury.

[Fovea]

15. Diane... Read Henry V. and get back with us.

There is a certain immense stupidity to the spin these days, not just mistaken, but frankly delusional.

Here is yet another example.

[tuvor]

19. That was my first thought, too. What a moranic statement.

Makes no sense whatsoever.

[calimary]

22. Oh yes you can - when the "commander-in-chief" is as compromised

and fault-ridden and incompetent and negligent as the current one is, you have an OBLIGATION to call his integrity into question. An ABSOLUTE OBLIGATION. Furthermore, if he's bad enough, you also have an obligation to those under his command to REMOVE him from that command.

And of course, they trot out that Qualls guy again. Is he posturing to be the new "swift-boater-in-chief" (the guy who hounded Kerry for a living)?

[adigal]

24. Seriously, that is one of the most illogical statements

I have ever heard - that woman is working on pure emotion with no rational thought in there. I feel terribly for her; maybe someday she will start thinking again.

[sakabatou]

26. Freeper logic

[Inland]

31. And questioning the integrity of a president questions all citizens.

And indicting Martha Stewart is an indictment of all people in the housewares business.

And complaining about Michael Brown is complaining about firemen and rescue workers.

And complaining about hurricanes is an insult to people in the water sprinker installation business.

[NickB79]

40. So all those Freepers who questioned Pres. Clinton's integrity

Also questioned the integrity of all those under his command during the 8 yrs he was president?

[VegasWolf]

46. She should answer why her commander in chief is hiding out on a

mountain top during a hurricane. What a pussy Bush is.

[Ilsa]

72. Perfect example of a non sequitur, IMO.

I don't question the integrity of those who have been lied to, just their commitment to critical thinking.

[jilln]

2. um, whaaaaaaatt????

"You can't call into question the integrity of the commander in chief without having it call into question the integrity of those under his command,"

That makes NO sense. But I guess that's what you get with the "you're either with us or against us" crowd.

[deutsey]

5. Wasn't Trent Lott who said you can support the troops and criticize the

commander-in-chief?

Never thought I'd agree with that asshole, but politics makes for strange bedfellows, and all that.

[Gnostic]

61. Wrong

Absolutely wrong
That is an age old trick to get people who ordinarily in good conscious would NOT support the war into actually DOING so.

I don't support the troops. Because I don't support this war! Period! I will NOT fall for that trap. You can't have it both ways, and support one thing and not the other. It's a propagandistic ploy designed to play on your conscious and guilt by cajoling you into supporting the troops and by natural extension therefor the war itself.

Lott and the rest of them who say this crap know it.

[BlueJac]

3. They can say what they want.........

GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW.........never should of been there....save the world, shit SAVE THE USA!

[YOY]

4. Love this quote

"You can't call into question the integrity of the commander in chief without having it call into question the integrity of those under his command," said Diane Ibbotson, whose son Army Cpl. Forest Jostes, 21, died in April 2004 outside Baghdad.

Yes Diane, Yes you can. Rather easily I might add.

[Benhurst]

12. Actually, she is right

if one lived in a country such as Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union.

If one lives in Germany, Russia or the United States of America, however, it is one's duty to question the commander in chief if his actions are illegal or immoral.

Did you ever hear of the Nuremberg trials, Ms.Ibbotson?

[CrispyQ]

6. Why don't we see pictures of these schools & hospitals on TV?

If that kind of work were really being done, wouldn't this administration be bursting to show it?

Could it be that the billions & billions of dollars (at least the billions that haven't been 'lost') are actually going to build military bases for US troops & not to re-build Iraq?

Am I wrong? Has anyone seen photos of these new schools with happy children & the hospitals full of patients grateful to have a new, sterile hospital to go to when in need?

[shrike]

8. Didn't Iraq already have hospitals? And schools?

Could it be we, er, bombed them to smithereens?

[Gnostic]

62. Don't forget....

.....about the untold millions being spent on fat enlistment and re-enlistment bonuses, housing, and other perks associated with being in the military presently, all funded by the people regardless of whether the people support anything about it or not, so that a bunch more asshats in camo can drive around in new SUV's instead of getting a friggin real job, since, after all, there really is'nt any big bad enemy we need a huge military for anymore.

But people like this Diane schmuck demand the rest of us who do have real jobs and pay for this nonsense support it all, because she lost a son who she probably encouraged to join the Army herself. If anything, I can't understand how ANY mother who lost a son could feel any OTHER way than Cindy does. Boggles the mind.

[Liberal Veteran]

7. What a moron...So I guess all the Enron and Tyco workers....

....were bad people following this logic?

[stepnw1f]

10. They are Corporate Tools

The sad thing is they don't even know it.

[xchrom]

11. diane and gary and the rest are unpatriotic.

if you don't criticize your commander in chief for killing your soldiers for no good reason on god's green earth.

[AX10]

49. Diane and Gary belong in GITMO.

The "Commander in Chief" is a murderer, simple. The REAL AMERICANS will question the failures of the CIC.

[indepat]

13. The integrity of the entire mission in Iraq speaks for itself

[bluestateguy]

14. If they won't exempt Sheehan from criticism, I won't exempt them

If they feel it necessary to trash Sheehan, then I think these "war parents" should be spared no criticism or special moral authority just because they had a kid that was killed in George Bush's fraudulent war.

By calling for more and more war in Iraq these people are calling for more loss of life, and hence, more grieving parents.

They've had over 2 years to learn the truth, but they have chosen not to.

[Benhurst]

17. . . .

:thumbsup:

[Gnostic]

63. Awesome post

Absolutely agreed.

[edhopper]

16. Remember when Reagan went to Blitzburg

to honor the fallen German soldiers of WWII.
I guess he was also honoring their Commander in Chief!

[Benhurst]

18. I think it was Bitburg, edhopper. But I like Blitzburg better --

it evokes the Blitz and little Wolf Blitzer.

Jesting aside, your point is well taken. :thumbsup:

:hi:

[edhopper]

29. Thanks

I should have Googled it.

[Solly Mack]

20. Some people will die idiots

and in between harm society with their stupidity.

Stupidity really ought to be painful - maybe there would be less if every time a person had a stupid thought, their heads would constrict in horrible pain until the thought was banished.

"You can't call into question the integrity of the commander in chief without having it call into question the integrity of those under his command," said Diane Ibbotson, whose son Army Cpl. Forest Jostes, 21, died in April 2004 outside Baghdad."

I'm so pleased she puts her dead son on par with the lying, thieving and murdering scumbag who killed him...but that's her choice to do so...no matter how incredibly ignorant it is...stupid ostrich.

[expatriot]

21. I am so sorry that this woman who lost her son is blaming the troops.

"You can't call into question the integrity of the commander in chief without having it call into question the integrity of those under his command," said Diane Ibbotson, whose son Army Cpl. Forest Jostes, 21, died in April 2004 outside Baghdad.

She has drank the Kool-Aid with Bush's whole "Pass the buck back down the line."

[yellowcanine]

25. "What has she done, rather than bitch, gripe and complain?" Well,

for starters, given a son to die in Bush's war. Her sacrifice is every bit as great as yours and deserves a little more respect than that, Gary. Besides that, if people like Cindy had their way your son would be alive as well. How can what she is doing be a bad thing, then?

[Lars39]

27. She was gracious in her welcome of Mr. Qualls

and commiserated with him on the death of his son. Now he badmouths her.
Mr. Qualls is no gentleman.

[daleo]

41. She has initiated political action to try to stop a war she disagrees with

That's a lot more than bitch, gripe and moan. She has done exactly what a citizen of a democracy is supposed to do if they disagree with their government on an important issue.

[Massachusetts]

28. "Families of troops counter Sheehan"

How does a parent compromise the GUILT they MAY feel with regard to their child being in "harms way"?

Some people choose to curl up in the flag, others choose to question what is the justification for the iminent danger their son or daughter may be in.IMO

[Hav]

70. Seriously...

Their child, maybe their only one, dies and they come up with this stupid stuff. Come on, what kind of parents are they? In their case it's to a certain extent about politics. They even repeat this stuff with the schools and how much is accomplished. Face reality, your kid is dead!

Are they possibly afraid that their child died for nothing and for lies? Not as great as having a child die for a heroic reason, huh?

[Q]

30. Iraq HAD schools and hospitals before Bush blew them up...

...And as far as not being able to question the integrity of the CIC without calling into question the integrity of those under his command...during Clinton's terms...Republicans said it was quite possible to trash the CIC and support the troops.

This RWing double standard is appalling.

Sheenan is simply telling the truth. That they can't handle it is their problem.

[Straight Shooter]

32. Ms. Ibbotson, I question your ignorance and lack of thinking skills

This does not mean that, by association, I question the thinking skills of any of your children.

As for Qualls, he sounds extremely petty. Perhaps he is projecting his anger at his son's death onto Ms. Sheehan. The more he tears her down, the bigger a "hero" his son becomes in his eyes. I guess we all cope as best we can, but his method of coping is pathetic.

[DS1]

33. I don't question them

I know he's an ignorant moron, a Bush supporting fuck who props up the empire with his unreasoned and illogical excuses.

[Puglover]

66. I agree DS1

I don't question, argue or engage these people in any way shape or form. They are moronic fools and not worth my time.

[Tracer]

34. I've met people like Ms. Ibbotsen ...

... and it seems to me that they get one phrase/sound bite/cliche cemented into their thick heads and never even question themselves about what the phrase even means.

It's like they have a wall in their brain that never lets them do any self-examination.

They need some heavy-duty consciousness awareness.

[Gnostic]

64. Example...

"... and it seems to me that they get one phrase/sound bite/cliche cemented into their thick heads and never even question themselves about what the phrase even means.">>>


Like, "support our troops" for example?

[Skip Intro]

35. They keep missing the point, its not about Cindy

its about the lying chickenhawks who lies have lead to the deaths of those these familes mourn. (the tens and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis bush/cheney/rummy/rice/powell slaughtered should be in this whole discussion as well)

Diane, with all respect, is a classic bot. Attitudes like hers have enabled madmen to wreak havoc and misery and death on a massive scale in the past, and attitudes like hers enable mademn to do so today.

[joefree1]

36. Moonie Times at it again

The owner of this yellow rag, "Reverend Moon," claims as the new Messiah he will not disappoint God like Jesus did.

His mass weddings were pretty hilarious though.

I never read pass the title when a story comes from this right wing propaganda source. What total crap.

[Mister K]

37. I feel very sorry for these war supporters who have lost children

They feel the need to know that their son or daughter did not die for nothing. That they died for some noble cause. That their death brought some good into this world. They don't want to hear the truth. They ignore the facts, plain as they may be, and generate reasons for this war that are skewed.

The reason for this war is control of oil and have some influence on Iraqi government once it becomes democratic (if it ever does).

The facts are very simple. There has been NO rebuilding of Iraq. No Schools and no hospitals. Many reports that have come from there as such. We ARE providing humanitarian aid (food, water, etc..) and trying to make it better for the Iraqi people, but honestly, they were in better shape before we blew the country to bits. Yes Saddam was a bad man, but we have killed more of his citizens then he ever has.

[Gnostic]

65. Hard to understand

"They feel the need to know that their son or daughter did not die for nothing.">>>

I simply don't understand this mode of thought. Not at all. In their shoes, I know I would be raging angry....angry at the establishment that enabled the scenario for my offspring's death to materialize before my own, which is truly every parent's nightmare. I certainly could not be angry with or hold any animosities whatsoever against another person who has gone through my same nightmare no matter what their opinion on it. I could only share a sense of deep grief with them, if not my utter contempt for the regime that killed her/him.

I have lost several close family members to wars, one particularly close in Nam. I have never tried to make any justification of glorification out of it through any sense of false patriotism or desire for a concrete reason for his going. I can't see how I could lay blame anywhere else but at the feet of the people who started that other farcical war.

Is this nation so torn apart, so clearly and irrevocably divided that this regime will witness blame and hate manifesting between and among it's own citizenry rather than seeing feeling it where it belongs, at their own globalist empire building murdering feet? It seems so, and it seems they are much, much smarter and cleverer than any of us give credit for. But my faith in large portions of the American electorate wanes with each passing day and story like this.

[Gregorian]

38. Permitted?

Once again, they show their arrogance, belligerence, stupidity. The creatures bred by fake media.

[lebkuchen]

39. succinct

and accurate

[genieroze]

42. Marine Reserve Lance Cpl. Louis Qualls, died to make the rich richer.

[insane_cratic_gal]

43. Ummm building of schools and hospitals?.

You mean the RE-building of schools and hospitals we destroyed with our precision bombers? Our shock and Awe campaign?

You know what.. I'm married to Active Navy. There isn't a day that doesn't go by that we.. (and the military families that I know) don't question the sanity or empathy of this administration. So Ms. Ibbotson, I politely disagree. I will continue to call into question the integrity of the commander in chief(laughable title that is) as he's fucking Incompetent Idiot. Until he's removed from office or served his term (prison term with any luck) I will continue to express my dislike and call into question at every damn corner the honesty of the ENTIRE administration.

[thingsarelookingup]

53. my gratitude to you,your spouse and other military families

I have such admiration for our armed forces even though I'm against this Iraq debacle with my entire soul. We have a Army Reserve post a few blocks from my house. Driving by a while back it looked to me like they were "shipping out". I had to pull over because I was just sobbing. Very emotional even as I write this. I didn't know any of those young men but I wanted to go over and give them all a huge hug. Like most at DU, I support our troops just not this administration. Thank you for being vocal - it's encouraging for me to hear that many military families don't agree either.

[Gnostic]

67. Support

You support the troops so you support the war.

Sorry, it's black and white. You can't have it both ways.

The ONLY way to support the troops is to demand they be sent home. All of them. And demand that this globalist cabal of thieves gets run out of office and their empire building agendas get halted. But repeating the old slogan "support the troops" over and over just lends legitimacy to this farce, whether it's intended or not. I do not support our troops being over there. Period. Simple as that, and no propagandistic trick play on my conscious will change that.

I have no gratitude for them at present because they are not doing anything positive for this country. I know it's not by their design and will, but many are also willing participants as well. It does'nt matter. I won't support anything about this war.....nothing whatsoever.....it is a farce created upon lies and deceit and thievery, and I won't have anything to do with it, and I don't have "gratitude" for anyone who is, whether they are an innocent party to it or not. Because the line must be drawn. Support is support no matter what wording is being used. You are being manipulated grandiously.

[HuffleClaw]

44. hmmm, this is a pro-cindy article if ya asks me.

you know, putting that ludicrous quote right at the beginning of the story really makes clear the stupidity of these folks. also, this; "Let's talk about the things they've accomplished," she said, listing the end of Saddam Hussein's dictatorship, Iraq's first free elections, and the building of schools and hospitals." anyone who's done any sort of research into this debacle in iraq KNOWS this claim is a bunch of hooey. i think the writer of this article makes clear what a bunch of loons these anti-cindy protestors are.

[neuvocat]

45. What hypocrites.

If they want to piss and moan about Cindy Sheehan "politicizing" her son's death, they shouldn't do the same thing.

[nwliberalkiwi]

47. DARWIN

Maybe this is a way of cleaning up the lower end of the gene pool. These fundie parents are responsible for the death of their children by their inability to think. Unfortunately, it is their type that kill other peoples children. I strongly support Cindy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AX10]

48. I call this the "Tritt/Daniels Rule"

:puke: :argh:

These two MOFO's said that you cannot question the war/President without questioning the troops. :eyes: Travis Tritt :puke: and Charlie Daniels :puke: called for the boycott of all anti-war artists. That's why I call this the "Tritt/Daniels Rule".

[mitchum]

51. WHAT has Gary Qualls done, other than pimp bushco?

I am sorry for Mr Qualls' loss, but in my opinion he just comes off like a real jerk. Or maybe he just can't face the fact that his son died for a sham and a lie.

[pinniped]

52. Props to the reporter who knows how to pick them.

--"You can't call into question the integrity of the commander in chief without having it call into question the integrity of those under his command,"--

[anotherdrew]

56. I bet. the quoted guy totally wants to be way "under his command." In Bed.

such undercurrents of sado-masochism and control issues in republicans... I think they were all sat on the toilet as kids and told they couldn't move 'til they'd pooped. If nessesary - some spanking to shake it loose and then the enema... such a nightmare they all seem to have endured.

Questioning the fearless leader = "you are one of the enema"

[raysr]

54. This is why I

don't support the troops!

[Gnostic]

69. Exactly

:yourock:

[anotherdrew]

55. they sure do! I've changed my mind and now support more war! LOL - NOT!

[JustSayNO 2 Sheeples]

57. When my family lost our brother. In Vietnam, 1966.

I was discussing this with my older sister the other day. I was pretty young and never heard this story until now.

She was in Jr. High shortly after his death. She was in a debate class and assigned by the teacher to give the "anti-war" side of the debate. She told the teacher she couldn't take that part, because her brother had just died in Vietnam and she wasn't going to disrespect his memory by debating with an anti-war stance.

She said our whole family felt that way. We supported the war right after his death. It was our way of coping, I guess. Once my older sisters got to college, our family changed its mind and realized how senseless the whole damn thing was.

This was stuff I forgot. I was 11. I put a lot of it out of my mind because it was just too hard for me. It's only in the past 7 years, with the help of my daughter, that I have been able to search out exactly what happened with my family and to my brother. Still to this day, it is very painful.

Sadly, these parents who are bashing Cindy will eventually realize their sons died for nothing.

[Skittles]

58. *sniff*

I remember when I was in grade school a little girl crying at school because her brother had been killed in Vietnam

[Frederik]

59. How moronic, um moranic, can you get?

"You can't call into question the integrity of the commander in chief without having it call into question the integrity of those under his command," said Diane Ibbotson, whose son Army Cpl. Forest Jostes, 21, died in April 2004 outside Baghdad.

[tainowarrior]

68. "Families of troops"

as if if she didn't lose a son herself.

Go Cindy, forget the sheep. Let them wave their dumb little flags, and realize they lost sons and daughters late at night, when they're going to sleep.

[bitchkitty]

71. I forgive these women - if they let go of their image of

their sons dying for a noble cause, it would probably shatter them. They need to come to the realization that the only way to salvage their sons' honor is to avenge them with their voices - not use their 1st Amendment rights to enable their sons' murderer.