FDA Commissioner Lester Crawford Resigns

[CountAllVotes]

WASHINGTON - Embattled Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Lester Crawford resigned Friday, saying in a memo to his staff that at age 67 it was time to step aside.

<snip>But Crawford's tenure was marked by increasing criticism of the agency, as the painkiller Vioxx was pulled off the market for safety problems and regulators held up wider access to emergency contraception. <snip>


more ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050923/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/fda_commissioner_resigns;_ylt=AvENl0Kfg7b2.5evEuS0Vzas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

Another rat gone and a VICTORY FOR WOMEN!!!!!! :D :D :D

:dem:

[Demit]

1. I'm picturing a ship...I'm picturing a rope leading away from the ship...

I'm picturing the ship sinking...

[CountAllVotes]

3. hey .........

NO SHIT!

:D :D :D :D

[Demit]

5. I'm picturing a LOT of shit...

:P

[WestHoustonDem]

6. And I'm picturing rats drowning after jumping ship

[CountAllVotes]

8. I think this one drowned alright

but he did not drown IN Katrina ... :nopity:

:kick:

[flamingyouth]

2. Good news, but I fear the next loon they'll find to replace him.

:scared:

[yojon]

46. That would be Billy Tauzin

if they can seduce him back from Pharma

[TomInTib]

4. Good riddance

Bye bye Lester. You asswipe.

That didn't take long.

TWO MONTHS on the job and he quits, says he is too old for the job.

This bunch gets loonier by the hour.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

11. Did I hear something about

an affair?

Oh, wouldn't that be delicious?

[TomInTib]

16. This is Friday so I wouldn't be surprised

Rovian news dump.

I hadn't thought about the timing until now.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

20. You're RIGHT!!!

That means this is big and filthy and really bad.

OK. I got time. I can wait.

[ClintonTyree]

7. It's like peeling the layers of an Onion away........

the more you peel the more there seems to be. Hell, we haven't even scratched the surface of the most corrupt administration ever, but it's nice to se we're finally heading in the right direction. So....many....layers....to....go....

[JoFerret]

52. Yes...and the thing about onions is

....every layer is the same.

[central scrutinizer]

9. calling all veterinarians who use faith-based healing!!

send in your résumés right away

[OldLeftieLawyer]

10. He's a VET!!!!

He's an animal doctor, and he was appointed head of the FDA.

Doesn't that just goddamned figure in this goddamned so-called administration?

[Demeter]

13. What is it with all the Veterenarians?

Can't find a real doctor to swallow the Koolaid?
Or a real scientist?

Or a real economist, or manager, or soldier?

Nope, guess not.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. And no one says a word

This dickwad got confirmed to take the job overseeing all our HUMAN medications, and no one asked if a competent researcher/physician was available?

I guess they weren't Christian enough.

Unbelievable. But, I think this is just another stage in the "wheels are falling off this circus" process. It's good.

[primavera]

23. Because most pharmaceutical research involves animals

It sort of makes sense that vets are involved in the agency.

[godai]

31. So maybe see a vet...

next time you get sick!

[kestrel91316]

37. The head of the FDA is a BUREAUCRATIC manager and paper-

pusher, not a doctor in private practice. I REALLY RESENT having NON-VETERINARIANS running the FDA, because they have a long track record of actions harmful to animals and which interfere with my ability to care for them. They are clueless. For once, we had a chance at someone RATIONAL in the job.

I don't know much about Crawford. The AVMA talked him up in generalities. Lots of RAH RAH RAH. But if he did something wrong then he needed to go. Regardless of his degree.

[kestrel91316]

36. Boy, don't say that around here. The DU vet-haters will rip you a new one.

[kestrel91316]

35. EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!! Veterinarians ARE "real doctors". We ARE "real

scientists". Your post is extremely insulting.

My degree is Doctor of Veterinary Medicine. That makes me a doctor. To say otherwise is a bald-faced lie and extremely denigrating to a profession which is EXTREMELY difficult to enter due to the high standards and competetiveness of the few veterinary schools we have. Many veterinarians go on to have illustrious careers in research, teaching, industry, and many others dedicate their lives to practicing medicine on those who cannot speak to say what is wrong with them.

It never seemed to bother the FDA all the years it was headed by physicians, trying to tell us veterinarians what to do, which drugs would be approved, etc. Ant it is safe to say that physicians know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about any species other than humans. Veterinarians know about ALL OTHER species of warmblooded (and many coldblooded) animals. We spend our careers extrapolating from one species to another based on our extensive knowledge.

A poster on another thread insulted us further by implying that vets had no training other than vet school, whereas physicians all had many years of residencies, etc. Many veterinarians go on to do internships, residencies, and become board-certified in their field of specianlty, and spend just as many years as physicians doing so. The biggest difference between vets and physicians is in how much money we make. Not in what we know, or our skills. Most physicians I have had as clients are neglectful of their pets, I am sorry to say. They tend to ignore veterinary advice and go off on their own, giving unprescribed meds or administering them improperly, or ignoring their pet's symptoms until it's too late to help them. They seem to lack respect for us, probably because they think there is something SACRED about humans and therefore those who treat them. But humans are just one more animal.

A good research veterinarian is no more or less qualified than a good research physician to head the FDA. A classmate of mine is a board-certified veterinary pharmacologist, and trust me, he would be VERY CAPABLE of doing the job. Our brains do not short-circuit and fail to operate when we start thinking about things human. We are FAR better informed about zoonotic diseases (diseases humans can catch from animals) than physicians are.

I hate ignorance. I REALLY REALLY hate it.

Done ranting for now. But I reserve the right to pick up again later.

[nolabels]

57. Yea but do you go the endocrinologist to get your teeth cleaned?

Just because someone is intelligent and working close to their own sphere of expertise does make them qualified for the job.

I take my dogs to the vet and not the pediatrician because that is how they get well :shrug:

[EST]

61. Ain't gonna get ripped by me.

I've an enormous respect for vets--their obvious skill and knowledge, made available for such a nominal fee, is indeed awesome. The few times I have had the requirement for their services they have impressed me with their compassion and perceptiveness. The requirements to become an animal doctor are every bit as strenuous as those for a human doc.

[MaineDem]

17. Did W appoint him?

I don't believe it with the animal docs!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. Confirmed two months ago

Now, he says his age (67) is too old for the job.

Two months ago, I guess he was 45. Or 30.

You know how those high-powered jobs can age you ............

[godai]

29. Rumor was affair with assistant

Denied as just father-daughter relationship. Further problem was promotion of her to high SES position when no one felt she was qualified. Further travel problems where he took her along unnecessarily.

One of these problems must have been confirmed leading to this Friday afternoon resignation. After years of being Acting, he was confirmed, then 2 months later, he resigns. Definitely pro-active damage control.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

32. The infamous

late Friday afternoon news drop.

This has to be a really dirty story about another hypocritcal and lecherous fundamentalist True Believer.

I wonder what the Washington Post will say about it.......

And welcome to DU, godai!!!!

[kestrel91316]

38. THIS is why he needed to go, not because he wasn't a godly, sacred,

human-treating PHYSICIAN.

[yellowcanine]

12. I guess his family is messed up and needs his undivided atttention.

Don't make fun of the guy, it is a healthy thing that he is doing.:sarcasm:

[VegasWolf]

14. Another victim of the ever expanding Abramoff probe??? nt

[warrens]

18. You're reading this wrong, I think

Crawford was a decent guy. He was a veterinarian, and not a right wing thug. My guess is he was about to approve the Plan B pill, so they forced him to resign.

[rodeodance]

24. oh gawd --is this true?

[WestMichRad]

26. His resignation is effective immediately

...according to NPR's report on the story tonight, so there's definitely something more to the story than his wanting to retire.

[godai]

30. There's no way...

he was about to approve Plan B. He had delayed this with a smokescreen delaying tactic to study younger teens ability to understand how to use Plan B.

His problem is apparently related to his female assistant.

[kestrel91316]

39. I was sure hopeful about that. But here on DU he could have been

Plan B's biggest fan, and because he is ONLY a veterinarian (just above slime mold in DU's esteem) then he was completely inappropriate for the job.

[warrens]

19. They already named his replacement

Which means he was fired. Which means he was doing something the Bushies didn't like. Which probably means the Morning After pill was about to be approved.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1802297

[CountAllVotes]

22. also ... approved a drug

named Tysabri. People with MS were infused with this crap and DIED of a rare diseases known as PML (a type of aggressive encephalitis). DIED UNDER YOUR WATCH CRAWFORD. And as for illegal trading in the stock market, the owner of the firm that was involved named BIOGEN sold his stock after the 1st death occurred, never to be heard from again. This happened a few months ago, but don't tell anyone ok and now they are trying to get this drug back on the market!

I kid you not.

A criminal - belongs in JAIL!

:kick:

[KittyWampus]

25. Wow, If You Hadn't Posted This, I'd Never Have Known. Thanks

[CountAllVotes]

27. view the "Headlines" for these two sites and you'll see :(

They (these companies Biogen & Elan) were just getting ready to try and put Tysabri back on the market.

They stated that it was shown to be affiliated with the development of PML - it mentioned nothing about the deaths of I believe 3 persons who were infused with this crap after it was expedited through the FDA - approved in November of last year and went on the market in February I believe (500 persons involved). Then the deaths occurred in March and April and they may have been others, I don't know.

They were figuring that Tysabri would never be on the market again after the deaths but this criminal was trying to get it back on with the help of the drug companies, Elan and Biogen just this past week in fact - its all on the "Headlines" on these sites:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=BIIB&d=t Biogen

look back to the time frames I mention and you'll see how the guy quit after the 1st unreported death occurred with Biogen and got a lot of money from selling the stock. He makes Martha Stewart look like Mickey Mouse. I swear this is so disgusting and no one seems to care (well except me I guess as I am familiar with this horrible illness unfortuantely). :(

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=eln ELAN

Same basic story but no sale of the stocks after the death occurred. Elan tanked badly and many big time investors lost a lot of money. Now they were hoping to get it back on the market; no mention of "deaths".

Thank god this bastard is now gone!

:kick:

[KittyWampus]

28. You Know, Toxic Pharmaceuticals Seem To Be Getting Approved

more often.

Or maybe it just seems that way.

[UpInArms]

33. NYT: Leader of the F.D.A. Steps Down After a Short, Turbulent Tenure

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/24/politics/24fda.html?hp&ex=1127620800&en=e20d5928f7629b34&ei=5094&partner=homepage

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 - Lester M. Crawford, the commissioner of food and drugs, resigned abruptly on Friday, causing further upheaval at an agency that has been in turmoil for more than a year.

Dr. Crawford, who was confirmed just two months ago, on July 18, after serving as acting commissioner for more than a year, did not say why he was stepping down.

<snip>

On Thursday, a commentary in The New England Journal of Medicine titled "A Sad Day for Science at the F.D.A." said that "recent actions of the F.D.A. leadership have made a mockery of the process of evaluating scientific evidence," disillusioned many scientists, "squandered the public trust and tarnished the agency's image."

Mr. Bush said he intended to name Dr. Andrew C. von Eschenbach, director of the National Cancer Institute, to be acting commissioner of food and drugs.

Dr. Crawford, a veterinarian and expert on food safety, was named deputy commissioner of the agency in early 2002 before his tenure as acting commissioner. In that time the agency has been rocked by disputes over many issues, including the safety of painkillers like Vioxx, the regulation of heart defibrillators and other devices, and delays in deciding whether to allow over-the-counter sales of an emergency contraceptive.

...more...

[UpInArms]

34. more info

from that NYTs article:

Ira Loss, senior health analyst at Washington Analysis, which studies federal issues for investors, said he had been told by someone in the White House that Dr. Crawford had been asked to resign for a reason not yet known to the public.

"Something new has arisen that has led to this," Mr. Loss said. It was not the controversy over the morning-after pill, he said, because Dr. Crawford "did what they wanted on Plan B."

[CountAllVotes]

42. It keeps changing UpInArms!

I found this part which was NOT there when I posted this article yesterday:

<< Crawford gave a speech Monday in Washington during which he betrayed no sign he was planning to leave, instead discussing upcoming FDA policy on the safety of cloned beef. >>


Maybe he wasn't as bad as we thought? My god, how frightening and another reason not to eat beef right there too.

:kick:

[UpInArms]

43. I can't figure out exactly what is going on with this -

for such a quick resignation - it appears more that they were forcing him out - immediately replacing him with someone else - why would they have anyone to slip into that slot so quickly if it wasn't this mal-administration's orchestrated move?

I think there is much more to this than we are getting.

We will have to try to watch as they play the shell game on this, I think.

:hi:

[UpInArms]

44. here's some more info

on Crawford:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=31107

FDA Chief Lester Crawford Resigns - Bush Names Intended Replacement, Andrew von Eschenbach

Less than three months after he was confirmed for the job, Lester Crawford, resigned as FDA (US Food and Drug Administration) Commissioner. Nobody knows why he chose to resign so abruptly.

President G Bush immediately announced that he intended to put forward Andrew von Eshcenbach as replacement.

Crawford had been deputy and acting commissioner for a long time. He had clocked up a total of 30 years working for the agency.

Andrew von Eschenbach is the director of the National Cancer Institute. The White House said President Bush has asked him to serve as Acting FDA Commissioner.

Lester Crawford - Background:

...pretty complete inventory on his past...

Then here's some info on von Eschcenbach:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/prostate/eschenbach_extended.html

Dr. Andrew von Eschenbach, director of the National Cancer Institute at the National Institutes of Health, talks to Susan Dentzer about his experience as a prostate cancer patient and his research to assess and improve screening for the disease.

The NewsHour Health Unit is funded by a grant from The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation.

SUSAN DENTZER: You understood exactly what decision-making tradeoffs you'd have to make How did you feel?

...an interview regarding his personal experience...

I'm just not sure what to think about it all. Need more info.

[kestrel91316]

40. Why wasn't DU screaming about this guy back in early 2002 when

he was appointed deputy commissioner? Nobody seemed to care that he was a veterinarian then. Heck, let's all campaign to see that NO VETERINARIANS ARE EVER AGAIN HIRED BY FDA for any position whatsoever. We are obviously stupid, uneducated dolts who should just be giving dogs their shots. "Just go to the back of the bus and shut up, Doc."

Did it ever occur to anybody here that people work their way up through government like they do in business, learning the ropes along the way? The FDA hires veterinarians for positions when they are suited for those positions. The USDA hires LOTS of veterinarians for its positions, because they are qualified for THOSE positions.

I am sick and tired of the WORSHIP of physicians as some sort of GOD, with special, magical attributes that veterinarians could not possibly also have. On several occasions, physician clients of mine (all men) have confided in me that they really wanted to become veterinarians, but couldn't get into vet school because of the high standards for admission, so they went to medical school instead. Interesting, huh? Medical schools full of veterinary school rejects..........just gets curioser and curioser.

[UpInArms]

41. Gee, kestrel91316 - I see that you weren't here

until Aug 05th 2004 - so why are you unhappy with DU prior to your arrival?

This man was not elevated to his current position until just a few months ago, did you rush to his defense at that time?

Just asking.

Also, it is apparent that you did not read my follow-up post with more information regarding his departure, so I'll post it again for you:

Ira Loss, senior health analyst at Washington Analysis, which studies federal issues for investors, said he had been told by someone in the White House that Dr. Crawford had been asked to resign for a reason not yet known to the public.

"Something new has arisen that has led to this," Mr. Loss said. It was not the controversy over the morning-after pill, he said, because Dr. Crawford "did what they wanted on Plan B."

[kestrel91316]

45. Excuse me? Why should I have "rushed" to Crawford's defense

two months ago when he was appointed? I didn't consider him controversial, and paid little attention. I have since noticed a tendency for SOME DU'ers to spew some pretty venomous, unwarranted, hateful remarks about my profession in general, so I decided to speak up.

I have been on DU a long time (2 years). Computer issues forced me to get a different screen name in order to post (I rarely posted before, but lurked for quite a while). I don't recommend Windows ME, and suspect it is involved in my occasional forum problems here and elsewhere. You have a problem with this?

I am well aware of the additional issues regarding Crawford's deperture. I am in no sense of the word DEFENDING Crawford. If there was some sort of hanky-panky with an underling, then he needs to have his a-- thrown out and he needs to be sued. I don't care what his political leanings may be.

My beef, if you had bothered to read my posts on this thread, is with the out-of-hand dismissal of him as FDA head merely because he is a veterinarian by training and not a physician. I am not about to sit still while my profession is viciously denigrated by ignorant people. I'll leave it up to you to decide if you are one of them.

[yojon]

47. New England Journal just published a critical editorial

about the FDA. They are referring to the political interference about Plan B. Here is the last paragraph:

"The FDA has, on occasion, been criticized for being too bureaucratic and slow to approve important new drugs, too quick to approve new drugs to please the corporate patrons who provide much of its budget, and too slow to withdraw drugs that seem to pose a danger to public health. But the agency has previously resisted political pressure to reflect a particular social policy or ideology. The recent actions of the FDA leadership have made a mockery of the process of evaluating scientific evidence, disillusioned many of the participating scientists both inside and outside the agency, squandered the public trust, and tarnished the agency's image. American women and the dedicated professionals at the FDA deserve better. Will we ever again be able to believe in the FDA's independence?"



..... course BushCo doesnt give a shit about the how scientists view their crimes.

[kestrel91316]

49. Crawford caught MAJOR flack from the RW for merely postponing

the decision on Plan B instead of turning it down outright. There is some speculation that this is why he left. The RW wanted him gone, he was too "liberal". Also, even though there is gossip about him and a female subordinate, the AVMA Journal said in a recent article that there was an investigation prior to his appointment and they found no basis for the claim.

Having been the victim of completely false claims on more than one occasion, and having had to defend myself and PROVE the claims wrong, I am a little more sensitive to this than I used to be. For some reason,we vets are seen as good targets.

[UpInArms]

51. keyboards never convey the things that we need to the most -

and mere words are only that - please accept my apology for not being able to convey my thoughts well.

I happen to have quite a bit of respect for veterinarians and did not mean to convey less than that.

My posts were merely questioning what the nefarious backroom deals were - Crawford may or may not be a reasonable person, he has quite an impressive background (I have also posted links to that), but something about his abrupt resignation and immediate replacement doesn't pass the smell test.

Peace.

[kestrel91316]

53. I found something to add to the Crawford speculation.............

You know of course that he opted to wait on okaying Plan B (morning after contraception) for OTC use. This is one thing that made the RW VERY ANGRY.

Something else recently that also made the RW VERY ANGRY: in July 2005 Crawford pulled a FIRST - he withdrew approval of the antibiotic Baytril in poultry. The poultry producers were very angry about this, and we all know that they are big business and primarily in the south, so I think the Republicans in the legislature went screaming to Bush and said "That's TWICE this SOB has gone against us! We want him fired!" And Bush said okay. So he demanded Crawford's resignation.

Crawford had a good reputation in vet med, AFAIK. Was lauded as extremely ethical and honest. You will have a hard time convincing me that it was "some woman" done him in. I think he wouldn't go along with Bush and friends.

[godai]

55. These are facts, not speculation

He promoted his female assistant to a high level SES position. When asked in the investigation if he checked with others about her SES qualifications, he said no. When others were asked if he checked with them, they said yes, and, they felt she was unqualified. This all started with whistle blowers in FDA complaining about the assistant's closeness to Crawford. He also traveled a lot with this assistant, including foreign trips. One person I know who saw them together in Europe called her his blond bimbo.

Also, the women in charge of the Office of Women's Health resigned to protest Crawford's delay of Plan B, indicating great scientific displeasure with Crawford. They initially announced a male replacement (a veterinarian), which went over like a lead balloon, then announced a female replacement:

http://weblog.nightbird.net/archives/000276.html

Nothing against vets but they have nothing to do with the approval of human drugs in FDA. There is a much smaller separate Center for Veterinary Medicine for animal drugs. That is where veterinarians work. Kind of like the tail wagging the dog for a veterinarian to be FDA Commissioner.

[kestrel91316]

58. Well it doesn't make any sense, then, for a physician to be head of FDA

either, because as we all know, physicians are completely unqualified to have any say in veterinary medicine. Yet they do, and have had, for many years. Only when the shoe is on the other foot do people get perturbed. I call hypocrisy.

[kestrel91316]

59. Do you have any links to HARD sources on the bimbo thing.

I just don't have any info on this, but a blog is not quite the source I was hoping for. Maybe a link to confirmation hearing testimony?

If he did have a bimbo that he promoted, I say fry the SOB. I just want to be sure before I call publicly for his lynching, lol.

[UpInArms]

56. thanks for the additional thoughts on that -

it could be very similar to when Paul O'Neil (Treasury Secretary) who, although I have no fondness for him, did let the truth fly frequently about the desires of the cabal. He didn't last long and SnowJob replaced him quickly.

[Pharlo]

48. kestrel

As far as I'm concerned, I have a lot of respect for veterinarians. The only thing in human medicine that comes close is pre-speech pediatrics. Watch the symptoms, deduce the problem because you can't get any information out of the patient.

Now, from my perspective, any hostility I may have against seeing a veterinarian in a position which could be filled by a physician is that human doctors are a dime a dozen. Got an emergency, go to a hospital. Hell, even clinics around here are open until 8:00 at night. I have no trouble getting into my doctor within 24 hours notice.

For my animals, however, I need to know AT LEAST 2 weeks in advance that they plan on becoming ill. That, or I need to miss work to take them to the vet.

Am I pissed because a qualified veterinarian is pushing papers when he could be practicing? HELL YES!!!

Is it because I do not respect his education? NO.

It's because when one of my animals get sick I have three options:

1. Miss work to take the dog to the vet. (For me, this is a double whammy - I'm paying 3 to 4 times more for a 15 to 20 minute consult than I make in an hour - and due to travel, I'm missing anywhere from 1 to 3 hours of work.)

2. Pay 3 times the normal visit fee for the privilege of driving an hour and a half to an emergency clinic where they are not familiar with my animals' history (Oh, and did I forget to mention that enviable treat known as car sickness).

3. Let my animal suffer until I can get into my regular vet - which can be anywhere from 72 hours to two weeks if it isn't a life threatening condition.

MAYBE, Just maybe, the problem isn't the education of veterinarians, but rather, the PROBLEM is the fact that there are too few vets to waste one in this position.

[kestrel91316]

50. Maybe he wanted to actually earn a living. Maybe he wanted to own

his own home, be able to support a family, have a LIFE. Veterinarians are far and away the most POORLY paid medical profession. This may be why you can't find a vet to be available to each and every one of his/her clients 24/7. We aren't paid enough to do so. Lincoln freed the slaves.

If your current vet won't fit you in with a pet with a medical problem within a day or two, you need to FIND ANOTHER VET. My policy, for instance, is to see all new eye problems the day the owner calls, see as much as I can in the way of sick/injured animals within 24 hours of the owner's call, and to place a higher priority on existing clients' animals than "new" clients. Bona fide emergencies come first, then urgent/ill/injured but nonlifethreatening, then rechecks/vaccs/minor problems.

Please do not blame your vet for the fact that you have to drive a distance and pay more for after-hours care. Emergency hospitals are EXTREMELY expensive to staff and equip, far more than "day practices" when you consider the hours they are open.

What would you have us do? Legally bar veterinarians from entering research/teaching (who would teach the vet students?), legally bar us from working in the public sector such as at the USDA inspecting packing plants and livestock imports, prohibit us from practicing on livestock and restricting clinical practice to companion animals only???? We are not unidimensional puppy and kitty doctors. Our profession encompasses MUCH more. To imply that it is wrong for a vet to enter public service by working for the government is, IMHO, insane. Maybe the Soviet Union could get away with forcing people to limit their chosen work, but this is still America, last I heard. we have a few remaining rights.

If there aren't "enough" veterinarians where you live, maybe you need to think about why that might be. There are more than enough where I am.

[Pharlo]

54. I agree with rights...I'm all for rights.

I'm all for your right and his right to do whatever the hell you or he wish - whether it's become a DVM,MD,RN, an auto mechanic, a school teacher, enter public service or the private sector.

I also believe in my right to counter rant.

Feel better, or shall we keep going?

[kestrel91316]

60. LOL, nope, I 'm all ranted out for now!

[Pharlo]

62. S'alright...

I know that some days a person just needs to get it out.
Been a pleasure discussing the issue with you.... (As in, you probably won't believe this, but some people around here take things SO personally) ...

:) Enjoy what's left of your weekend... :)