Praise, Anger at Pro-War Rally in D.C. (AP Estimates Crowd at 400)

[ruggerson]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/09/25/national/a113202D72.DTL

<snip>

Support for U.S. troops fighting abroad mixed with anger toward anti-war demonstrators at home as hundreds of people, far fewer than organizers had expected, rallied Sunday on the National Mall just a day after a massive protest against the war in Iraq.


"No matter what your ideals are, our sons and daughters are fighting for our freedom," said Marilyn Faatz, who drove from New Jersey to attend the rally. "We are making a mockery out of this. And we need to stand united, but we are not."


About 400 people gathered near a stage on an eastern segment of the mall, a large photo of an American flag serving as a backdrop. Amid banners and signs proclaiming support for U.S. troops, several speakers hailed the effort to bring democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan and denounced those who protest it.


Many demonstrators focused their ire at Cindy Sheehan, the California woman whose protest near President Bush's Texas home last summer galvanized the anti-war movement. Sheehan was among the speakers at Saturday's rally near the Washington Monument on the western part of the mall, an event that attracted an estimated 100,000 people.

<snip>

[ewagner]

1. At yesterday's protest

I don't think ANY of the speakers criticized the Pro-war people.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

4. Well maybe bush. A little.

Hahahahahaha.

[cascadiance]

2. Why do they hate America?

[AX10]

3. Thousands of Peace activists vs. TENS of those who wish...

to harm the troops.

[prolesunited]

5. 400 if you count all of the speakers

Why do they get equal coverage when proportionately their numbers are so much smaller?

[WCGreen]

28. It's good they get coverage cause they

look as impotent as they really are...

[primavera]

39. Exactly

300,000 of us protest the war and 400 show up to support it? Let's see, that would be 99.87 percent opposed to the war, 0.13 percent in favor. I think that's a poll I'd want to see publicized.

[NeoConsSuck]

42. Exactly.

If the anti-war protests drew only 400 people, you might be able to find a three liner in the classified section.

USAToday.Com has it as one of it's lead stories.

Now maybe if the lead was "Pro-War Rally Fizzles. Only 400 Attend" there would be justification for putting it on a media site home page.

--Edited for spelling --

[buff2]

6. There wasn't 400 hundred people there

It was more like around a 100,if that. The whore media always have to hype the numbers up for the right wing fascists because the numbers are not really THERE!

[KittyWampus]

12. they included all the Freepers guarding the portapotties.

[krkaufman]

33. Not guarding; just standing downwind

There hadn't been a Bush speech in a few days, and so were going through withdrawals.

[Peace Patriot]

15. Yup, just like they hyped Bush's numbers in the 2004 election, by...

...FALSIFYING their own exit polls (Kerry won) to "fit" the "official result" derived by Diebold's and ES&S's SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code (Bush won), on everybody's TV screens on election night.

Fascists need secret, proprietary programming in their "elections," and lots of other propping up.

100 to 100,000 was about the ratio yesterday/today (using THEIR number of wingers). Coverage: Well, I guess it's based on a fascist's idea of equal time.

But it's a compliment in a way (a left-handed compliment--har, har). HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AGAINST THE WAR are taken for granted, as just background noise or something, while a few wingnuts creeping out of their caves is A STORY.

On the other hand, the VAST MAJORITY is against the war, but they're too stupid to throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor,' so why give them any special treatment? It's the freepers and wingnuts who have the power. That IS a story.

Maybe they're right. (--or would be right, if they told the whole truth: how did this freakish minority of death worshippers get such a BIG TRUMPET, and put such an idiot puppet in the White House?)

[loudsue]

45. You're so right, Peace Patriot. It is more obvious every day that

the last election was stolen, and the media still wants to dance around the issue.

"Liberal" press my ass.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

18. The reason they massage the numbers...

Is because they count all the people who *would* be there if they could just stop typing with one hand, pull up their pants, get away from Free Republic and the computer, get out of their mother's basement and get to the porta-pottie fest.

But they can't, so they don't and they still get kinda counted.

[Warren Stupidity]

40. I think it was more like 100.

I asked many of them to sign up if they were so enthusiastic about the war. I also pointed out that the military has, for the time being, quietly dropped its witchhunt against gays, so that one more barrier to their enlistment and service has been removed. Somehow the latter point seemed to irritate the lonely freeptards. I don't know why, do you?

[Gregorian]

7. Parrots parroting the parrot media.

They make freedom sound like a dirty word. Freeeeeeedumb.

If Bush said we were fighting indigestion, that's what they'd be saying.

[Mandate My Ass]

8. Freep: "we need to stand united"

um, we did.

YESTERDAY!

:rofl:

[buff2]

10. LMAO!

:rofl:

[AirmensMom]

9. They are not fighting for our freedom!

WHY would ANYONE believe they are? I'm so offended by these people! How dare they call themselves pro-troops? I'm a pro-troops mom ... meaning I don't want my kids, or anyone else's, to die in this fiasco!


:rant:

[StClone]

13. They are dumb patriots, if you can call them patriots.

Maybe even stupid, but certainly lazy and ignorant and obviously gullible. They allow manipulative folk to think for them, then follow the most irrational and illogical ideas.

[AirmensMom]

21. I can't decide what is worse,

the parents who seem to be GLAD that their kids died "fighting for our freedom" or the ones who want to "stay the course" with someone else's kids while they pack their own kids safely into their college dorms. You're right, they're dumb, stupid ... what you said. And it really galls me that they think they're so morally superior to us. I can't watch them on TV -- it raises my blood pressure enough just reading about it.

[Kenergy]

16. I agree n/t

[zbird]

11. I don't think that is a photo of the American flag....

Looks like a REAL American flag that has been defaced with graffiti.

[Akoto]

14. "We need to stand united."

It appears that the American people are standing united, and in the hundreds of thousands, only it's not in favor of the right-wing agenda this guy wants.

[TacticalPeek]

17. They changed the count estimate in that article. Originally, "About 100".

Rove has intimidated our 'free press' into a whimpering shadow of their former selves.


"War Supporters Follow Anti-War Rallies

WASHINGTON - Military families and others defending the war in Iraq took their turn Sunday to demonstrate on the National Mall, if in much smaller numbers, and counter the massive protest against the war a day earlier.

About 100 people had gathered before a stage set up on the eastern portion of the mall as the noon rally began. A large photo of an American flag served as a backdrop for the stage, and country music blared from speakers while other banners and signs proclaiming support for U.S. troops waved in the breeze."




Or perhaps the WH just hired 300 'late arrivers'.

[Bark Bark Bark]

19. WAAAAAAAAY Below's Kristinn's Estimates

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/25/war.rally.ap/index.html

"We are preparing for as many as 20,000 people, just to be on the safe side," said Kristinn Taylor, a leader of FreeRepublic.com, one of the sponsors. "People have been fired up over the past month, especially military family members, and they want to be heard."

You know, Kristinn: you're right. People ARE fired up. Especially military family members. (You know, like Cindy Sheehan.)

They're just not on your side.

Preparing for as many as 20,000? Hope all that cheap beer and spray cheese doesn't go to waste. Send it south.

[Binka]

24. Fired Up Like Me! My Son Is In Ramadi And Bad Shit Is Going Down

This Momma and her son are fucking fired up. I have not heard from Ben in 13 days and I am just bat shit crazy.

Fuck little Kristinn and his hate filled heart. Why the fuck hasn't he signed up?

[AirmensMom]

26. I hope you hear from him soon, Binka.

Please post when you do. No mother, father, sister, brother, child ... NO ONE should have to go through this!

Hugs to you.

:hug:

[Binka]

30. I am crying over the telephone...call me Ben please....call

Every death reported makes me run to the toilet. Thank you for the support. Love.

[ewagner]

29. Aw Binka

I hope you hear from him soon and that he returns home to you safe and sound. :pals:

[Binka]

31. Thanks BTW You Are One Of My Fav Posters

We have never been properly introduced but Hey I dig you!

[ewagner]

34. Thank you soooo much

:blush:

Hope we meet at a rally someday! :hi:

[wellstone_democrat]

32. everyday you and your son are in our thoughts

I hope with everything in me that you hear from him soon and that all is as well as it can be. I hope equally hard that he comes home to his family safe and soon.

Please keep us up to date on things and know that you have a community here that supports you and supports him.

[Binka]

35. Steve Earle Is On And I Am Just Hanging On By A Thread

How I will get through the next 7 months is beyond me. But my DU buddies are just what I need. I love each and everyone of you that stop by into my life and shout out LOVE. It means SOOOOOO much. My birth family so rich and disconnected so afraid to offer real support and love have left me just shaking my head. But DU is the real deal.

Peyton Ben's little sis by 20 years says HI!

[AirmensMom]

36. Hi Peyton!

What a cutie! Give your mom lots of hugs!

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[wellstone_democrat]

37. I think that is true of many of us

and one of the miracles of the Internet is the extension of community. I've seen people here come together to donate for everything from a single mother in deep distress to funeral costs. I've seen us offer housing to the evacuees and comfort to DUers facing deployment or that of families. When our own families and communities are hard to find or even non-existant we've been fortunate enough to find some good people with great hearts. I know that I've been enriched by being a part of lives like yours however tenuously and know equally well that should I find myself in a tough place that people here will reach out. Like any community there is often someone who will say something foolish or too hastily or too angrily but I've noticed since spring of 2001 that 15 people immediately rush to post something to cancel out the words of the foolish or the disruptor.

Please stay with us over those seven months. We do care what happens to your son because he has become our son in an important way and we do care what happens to him and to you---and say hi to Peyton-- Ben's sister! (tell her 76,000 people say Hi!)


edit: punctuation

[Binka]

41. Peyton Wants To Dance For You

She dances out everything. I have pictures I will post tomorrow of Pey in her Tu-Tu. She is keeping me going. We mailed Ben a care package today from Heaven. Powder, face gel, razors, candy, slim Jim's, jerky, cashew nuts, good socks, cigs, stack containers, shampoo, a couple of good CDs......they will think his Mama is NUTS!

Thank you for being my friend in a time when I am far away from home and loved ones. :loveya:

[tinfoilinfor2005]

61. I've never yet met a decent man whose mother wasn't nuts.

:) Ben will be fine, Binka. Blessings and prayers and kisses to all of you and that beautiful baby girl too.

[NMDemDist2]

54. oh dear! let us know soonest when you hear from him. I'm so sorry

your family has to be going through this

:hug:

[leftchick]

56. kristinn will rot in hell before he enlists

peace and love to you and your boy Binka,

:hug:

[fortyfeetunder]

60. 19,900 of the 20K were looking at it on C-SPAN

or waiting for the Free Republic updates.

Or were they stealth supporters? Couldn't see 'em?

[Autonomy]

20. Umm...

"The group who spoke here the other day did not represent the American ideals of freedom, liberty and spreading that around the world," Sen. Jeff Sessions (news, bio, voting record), an Alabama Republican, told the crowd. "I frankly don't know what they represent, other than to blame America first."

LOL. Does this sound like he tried to sneak the "spreading that around the world" part in and hope no one notices that it's not really an "American" ideal? I was there yesterday, and I am for freedom, liberty, and even for democracy in other countries.

I'll tell ya what we represent, Jeff: we're against spreading war around the world. Is it that hard to grasp?

[cascadiance]

22. Have the freepers tried to contact Massive Software and Weta Studio yet?

You know, the companies that helped produce all of the crowd special effects visuals of armies, etc. in Lord of the Rings series? I'm guessing their wincing every time they see those sparse crowds in this broadcast for their "equal time"!

http://www.massivesoftware.com/

http://www.jasons.co.nz/lordoftherings/weta.cfm

I've gotta hope that some good companies from New Zealand wouldn't "get in bed" with these freepers to help with their propaganda, but who knows!

[truthisfreedom]

23. 200,000 v.s. 400? that's 500 to 1, baby. how does bush get his numbers

propped up again?

[cascadiance]

25. He probably has a few of the "very rich" folks in the crowd

and then measures the crowd by "net worth". At the current net worth delta we have been the rich and poor in this country, we might just have an equal amount of "net worth" showing at that crowd, so they'll try to claim theirs an equal amount of "money" attending this rally. I guess these pathetic pictures they show of the crowd kind of give them the "reverse" treatment that they try to give us when showing us a "geographic" map of who voted for Bush and who voted for Kerry/Gore. Suck on it freeps!

[TahitiNut]

27. What's with the mascara fetish?

For the life of me, I cannot comprehend the mentality that trowels on such black filth around the eyes. That crap makes an otherwise nice-looking woman look like total crap.

[wellstone_democrat]

38. A little mascara story...

in my early 20s I worked at one of those jobs that suggested that a "professional" appearance for women included make up. With my blond eyelashes mascara was definitely a part of the regime (which I hated then). Being 22 and foolish I borrowed someone's mascara in the ladies room one morning---yes, what they say is true! you can indeed get "problems" from borrowing masacara. Today I have virtually no eyelashes and haven't for 23 years!

"Mascara kills!" (well, eyelashes anyway) Its not good even if you don't borrow it.

[dooner]

43. 400? Must have included all the media tripping over themselves. n/t

[Skittles]

44. HOW F***ING CONFUSED ARE THESE F***ING PEOPLE?

They're telling me they don't know the difference beteween supporting the troops and supporting their complete MISUSE by a bunch of NECOCON BASTARD????? Come on.

[lakeguy]

46. "fighting for our freedom"...

freedom from what? wmds, nope. terrorists, not before we got there. democracy, nope.

maybe they are fighting for:
corporate profits, yup. warmongering chickhawks, yup. worldwide hatred of the US, yup. destabilization of the region, yup. higher oil prices, yup...and on and on.

of course it's not that the troops are specifically fighting for this shit...just our glorius chickenhawk leaders who sit behind the desks and watch as their stock portfolios rise.

[despairing optimist]

47. For the fourth or fifth time, here's my eyewitness account of the "400"

I used the DC Metro's Yellow Line both ways from Stepford National Airport to the Mall on Saturday because of extensive service delays due to track work. I figured the walk from the Navy Memorial to the Ellipse would do me good.

At approximately 11 a.m. I exited the Metro Station at Navy Memorial and was deposited in the middle of the freeper pro-war we-love-blood rah-rah rally. There were at most 50 people there, a low-power amp was shared by a couple of speakers, and the audience's spirits must have been coming out of the low-power amp too because the scene was pretty quiet for a public rally. Even the Up With People rallies of long ago had more oomph, and that's saying a lot.

Relieved that no wild-eyed freeper looked into my eyes and shrieked, "He's one of them! Let's get 'im!" I proceeded down 7th Street with the rest of the antiwar crowd that had taken the same train as I had, and then turned right onto the Mall toward the Washington Monument. I witnessed no words at all exchanged between the two groups at the station, only silence and minding one's own business.

Having checked out the Ellipse at 11:30, I decided to stand by a lamppost at the corner of 15th Street and Constitution Avenue for a couple of hours, during which time the crowd got very thick and I developed my own estimate of its size: about 120,000 or maybe 130,000, but almost certainly more than what the rally organizers had hoped for, which was 100,000. Anyway, I was getting dizzy and wobbly because of my physical problems and decided to head back toward the airport early, retracing my footsteps. I returned to the Metro Archives/Navy Memorial stop and found the scene even more pathetic and desperate than it had been in the morning. By the afternoon, escalators full of antiwar people were still rising from the station exit, each escalator carrying far more people than the freeper protest had had for the several hours I knew of it. And again, the antiwar folks were ignoring the prowar ones and walking toward the Monument as I had done. At no time did I see anywhere near 400 people at the Navy Memorial. I never would have been able to get through that crowd as quickly as I did--twice--if there had been 400 people at that station.

And I have to add that I've been at student demos with a dozen or so people who made lots more noise than those 40 or 50 freepers did with their amplifier. If you can imagine a freeper with a voice like Mister Rogers going on about war and Iraq, that's sort of how the event sounded to me: very tranquil and mechanical, almost soothing and hypnotic. The freeper's voice was the equivalent of John Roberts' eyes, if you know what I mean. They must drink a potion or something.

Anyway, that's my limited personal account. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking there were 400 people at the Navy Memorial. If there were, they must have hidden from me for a few hours.

[ElectroPrincess]

48. Perhaps, that's why there's NO PICTURES?!?

The whorish media are so damn arrogant that they conveniently choose not to present pictures. Why? Because pictures would tell the truth about their LOW numbers.

These Right Wing jerks and their wealthy contributors and corporations are SHAMELESS. :puke:

[despairing optimist]

51. I thought the freeper counterdemo was on Sunday, so maybe

the media wanted to see the crowd then. But I watched the NBC Sunday Evening News, and there was no mention of any counterdemo, just the news about Rita--which was devastating enough to deserve the time spent reporting it. When I compare the way that Saturday's big demo was covered, not perfectly of course but it got good coverage, and the way that the freeper response was *not* covered by acting as if it hadn't happened, I'm sort of satisfied. I didn't expect MSM to oooh and aaah about Saturday, but they covered it right after the main Rita stories.

If the right wing is reduced to not mentioning the counterdemo, considering its influence on the MSM and its power in government, I'd say that's an important victory for the antiwar side. When I was standing at 15th and Constitution just outside the approach to the Ellipse, the Veterans for Peace and Iraq Veterans Against the War were right in front of me being filmed as they were chanting their marching songs (or whatever they're called as one group marches and the other group responds). I thought of how long it took Ron Kovic and John Kerry to form Vietnam Veterans Against the War, how long it took for a movement to form to oppose the Vietnam war, and how long it took before that movement was able to speak for the majority of Americans. Then I compared the present situation with Iraq. The Iraq war was opposed by millions of people all over the world before it even began, and veterans of the Iraq war and occupation quickly channeled their anger and frustration at being lied to into forming their own antiwar veterans' group. Antiwar protests that took six or seven years to form in the days of Vietnam have grown to include hundreds of thousands of people in just a couple of years. The protesters are not only college students now; they include people of all ages and are thus harder for politicians to ignore. And perhaps most important of all, support for the Iraq war and occupation has fallen dramatically, from a big majority favoring it to a big majority opposed to it in just two years. Talk about Future Shock and transiency! Future Shock is one of Newt Gingrich's favorite books; no wonder he wrote that memo a few weeks ago after Katrina. Those guys are genuinely worried about losing control.

In the 60s, if people wanted to know what was happening in NYC, they called Dial-A-Demonstration and they didn't think of asking their parents if they'd like to tag along. Now, with the Internet, staging mass events with nationwide participation is pretty much taken for granted. We can even ignore the MSM since we can get the news unfiltered from a number of sources. All this gives me a lot of hope that Iraq won't kill 58,000 US troops and millions of Iraqis, and that Bush, Blair, and their friends will be made to pay for their crimes. The biggest problem is finding leadership in the opposition party. No, strike that: the biggest problem is finding an opposition party. Once that problem is solved, finding the people in it who were smart enough to oppose the Bush regime shouldn't be so hard. Making sure those people control the opposition party--now, there's another problem. The only way the GOP can win is if its opponents keep stumbling over the bodies of their leaders. Pictures won't matter then. They'll be too late to make a difference.

[Olney Blue]

50. Despairing O, thank you for that post.

I was there too, yesterday, and walked by the protestors at the Navy Memorial.
Athough vastly outnumbered, they were yelling loudly at us on the street, so angry that we were raising doubts about the war. They just don't seem to understand that we were protesting the lies and manipulation of the administration, not our troops.

My sign said: "We were misled"

[despairing optimist]

55. I'm glad I missed the yelling, but even happier that no one took the bait

I'm waiting for increasingly desperate freepers to get violent, as was the case in the late 60s when hardhats from a construction site set upon some antiwar protesters in NYC. But then opinion about the Vietnam war was more divided than opinion is about Iraq today, so the Archie Bunker types had more support. They're vastly outnumbered now, and that's a great sign.

There's a lot of impatience on DU about waking up the sheeple, and I'm part of that impatience myself sometimes. Every minute that goes by, more people get maimed or die, others lose loved ones, and children are corrupted by war. The Bushistas pulled every string and twisted every arm in the MSM, in Congress, and everywhere else to try to control information. They have failed. The truth is out. They are outnumbered, and they are increasingly isolated. They are not out of power yet, but their power has diminished and will continue to diminish. All this isn't to say, sit back and let the inevitable happen, but to keep the pressure on them and keep sending the truth out to anyone who will listen so as to hasten the inevitable. If the best response that the freepers have to the truth is mindless repetition of slogans and catch phrases, it's no wonder they can't muster more than a few dozen bodies for their front line.

[ruggerson]

52. DO

This article is referring to TODAY's rally (Sunday) held by pro war Freepers.

I think you're referring to the counter pro war demonstrators from YESTERDAY (Sat).

That's why you didn't see 400 people there. They weren't there yesterday, they were there today. (probably more like 200)

[despairing optimist]

57. Oops. That's different. Never mind.

I thought there were supposed to be thousands at the Sunday rally. No wonder I got it confused with the Saturday event at the Navy Memorial. MSM accounts said 150 people were at the Saturday event, and it was more like one-third that number. So if you take 400 and divide by 3, probably 130 to 150 people attended Sunday's rally. If MSM inflated once, they most likely did it twice.

[ruggerson]

58. On C-Span

It looked like about 200 people or so. And it dissipated as the afternoon wore on.

They said they expected up to 20,000.

We'll see if the MSM picks up on what a huge bust it was.

[despairing optimist]

59. The window for MSM to report the busted rally is closing fast

It didn't make NBC's Sunday evening news show. I'll check the 11 p.m. show. If it's not on then, I doubt NBC at least will even credit its existence, let alone its size. I don't have cable, so I can't check CNN or Fox. Imagine Fox reporting on the failed prowar counterdemo. When pigs fly!

[Arkana]

49. I saw Kristinn Taylor on C-SPAN today when I got back to school.

Once again, the porta-johns outnumber the people.

[GoldenOldie]

53. If you truly think about it....

Those Gold Star Mothers/Fathers, who focused their ire on Cindy Sheehan and not on the AWOL Commander-in Chief who lied to their sons and daughters are so grief stricken and they are mentally incapable of reasoning. They need to hate someone for their childrens death and Cindy is more accessable.

Those that use their grief and tears for their own power plays, are so flagrantly obvious it only advances the Anti-War/Bring the Troops Home Now reasoning.

They are unable to quote Cindy with hateful comments against those parents who believe their children have died for a Noble Cause or need something/anything to hold on to. Yet the Pro-War/Bush supporters reek of hate and vengence against those that dare to shine the light upon them.

[Solly Mack]

62. How do you defend the man who murdered your child?

How?

Acknowledging that your child didn't have to die...but did die because of some man's lies does not , in any way, take away from your child.

Your child was the victim of a mad man's thirst for power, money, and control....admitting that doesn't disrespect your child...it doesn't dishonor your child.

Not admitting it just means Bush will get away with killing your child. Are the lies you tell yourself worth that? Because then it's YOUR fault for letting Bush get away with it.

The person that disrespected and dishonored your child is George Bush.

You honor your child by seeing to it that those that sent your child to die in an illegal war are brought before the courts. That they are punished for their crimes.