Newsday: Bush urges larger role for military

[stevedeshazer]

BY CRAIG GORDON
WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON -- Seeking to head off a replay of Hurricane Katrina foul-ups, President George W. Bush yesterday called on Congress to consider giving the U.S. military a leading role in recovery efforts in a catastrophic natural disaster or terrorist attack, a break with precedent sure to spark controversy.

Bush wrapped up a weekend-long Hurricane Rita-watch tour in Colorado and Texas. In San Antonio yesterday, he heard a two-star general call the Katrina rescue efforts a "train wreck" of failed coordination and communications, one that could be improved with a national response plan.

Bush signaled that he believed there might be natural disasters or terrorist attacks so vast and destructive that they would require the Pentagon to take the lead in rescue and recovery efforts, a job that now goes mainly to state governors who dispatch National Guard troops, assisted by the federal Department of Homeland Security.

more:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usbush26,0,3017289.story?coll=ny-nation-big-pix
----------------------------------------------------------------------
:scared:

[rosesaylavee]

1. No. We can't let him and/or Congress do that.

Never... it would mean the end of our democracy - or what is left of it - for sure.

No. Not on my watch.

[rosesaylavee]

2. Kicked and nominated because this needs to be discussed broadly. n/t

[Botany]

3. Memo to bush

Sir,

The guard already did that before you shipped to Iraq. Just
suppose that LA guard was @ home with their amphibious
vehicles instead of 12,000 miles away.

[FloridaPat]

4. Looks like a plan to keep the NG in Iraq and use whoever happens to

be around for the disaster. And then of course, the pres gets to pick the disaster.

But no one seems to be talking about FEMA turning help away. Or the fact the NG was suppose to be around but really didn't show up until 4 days later because most were in Iraq. Plus he can control everything and no one can check what he's up to. Then he can bring back the draft and say it's to help with hurricanes.

[aquart]

5. No.

[liveoaktx]

6. Here's where he said it -in this video

right past all the bobblehead action

[Lindsay]

7. A really bad idea.

Therefore he will probably implement it by executive order.

Have I mentioned lately that I really hate these people? Unfortunately, the feeling is apparently mutual.

[jody]

8. Congress needs to limit the Guard to the original Constitutional use, i.e.

"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions".

Louisiana had more than enough Guard troops to augment law enforcement if they were home.

The way to accomplish that is by repealing the National Defense Act of 1916, under which the militia, which had been an almost purely state institution, was brought under the control of the National Government. That's the source of our immediate problem both in state emergences and in Iraq -- presidential misuse of state militias.

[Katidid]

36. Last night on Faux, Geraldo was saying that Congress needs to

suspend the Posse Comitatus Act so that the military can organize the reconstruction efforts ....
:scared:

Martial law on the horizon ... and Geraldo thinks he is one of the boys. What an A-Hole!

Do you think it will happen?

[jody]

48. The military can play a major role in reconstruction without suspending

the Posse Comitatus Act. For example, the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers already plays a major role in reconstruction.

18 USC 1385 says:

QUOTE
Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly
authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses
any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or
otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
UNQUOTE

That prevents a president from using the Army or Air Force to execute the laws but does not prohibit other duties such as aid, presumably the Navy and Marines are also covered.

Bush and his cronies are making a power grab to impose a police state claiming they need more power for reconstructing but they already have all the authority they need for non law enforcement tasks.

States have their "organized militia" or Guard units to augment law enforcement and every state also has an "unorganized militia" that can be activated to help law enforcement. In Louisiana, the "unorganized militia" consists of every person between 17 and 64 with some exceptions.

The sad thing is Congress has ignored the "unorganized militia" which by law is part of the militia cited in our Constitution.

Congress has not done its duty "To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia" and the "unorganized militia" is unorganized, unarmed, and undisciplined.

[Coastie for Truth]

57. The Historic Role of The Corps of Engineers is a Good Point

Until FDR established the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) and the WPA (Works Progress Administration) - massive public works (like Court Houses, Post Offices, etc. and dams and levees, etc) was the Corps' job.

Recommendation - any military contingent mobilized for Disaster Recovery should be under the Command of an Officer of the Army Corps of Engineers or the Navy Civil Engineers Corps (SeaBees) - and both services should create a Corps of Engineers/Civil Engineers Corps "subspecialty" of disaster planning - mass disaster recovery specialist (like what FEMA used to do).

[stevedeshazer]

9. This story scares the bejabbers out of me.

This is the neocon blowback. We knew it was coming.

Here it is. This is their "adjustment" to the news cycle for the coming week.

Welcome to the talking points.

[stevedeshazer]

10. I should also have included his paragraph...

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said Bush, in recent days, has talked about the need for "a trigger" that comes into play during a massive event when, as during Katrina, the traditional structure of state and local first-responders becomes overwhelmed and the federal government needs to step in with its massive resources.

[pinniped]

11. I'm sure all the pro-* gun-nuts are happy about this...

not. They were so worried about invading Chinese paratroopers they probably didn't see this one coming.

I'm sure this plan would include those so-called security contractors.

[DBoon]

12. "a terrorist attack so vast..."

like this one?

[stevedeshazer]

13. That does look familiar

:(

[ngGale]

14. NO, absolutely NOT...

seems he's using NOLA for his or (their) agenda.:scared:

[TaleWgnDg]

15. Oh, What a WONDERFUL thought!!

.
Oh, What a WONDERFUL thought!! Let's grant our U.S. military authority to stop, seize, and arrest civilians as well as "protect" our property across America! Can you spell B-A-N-A-N-A R-E-P-U-B-L-I-C, kids? Yee-haaawwwwwwwwwww.

Kindly read history and a short legal overview (75 Washington University Law Quarterly 953, Summer 1997)
as to WHY the U.S. military has no authority to stop, seize, and arrest civilians on America soil!! Hell, even the framers of our constitution didn't want a "standing military" when they drafted the U.S. Constitution. Ooops, Dumbya can't read and doesn't know history despite that fact that he was a history major at Yale University. Oh, yeah, that's right too . . . he brags about his lousy GPA (grade point average) when he graduated Yale. I've often wondered if he went to any of his classes at all!

And, now Dumbya wants the lazy way out, once again. Wants America to *trust* his judgment AGAIN!

ROLFMAO . . . Yes, it would be funny if he wasn't so serious again.

Hurray, call the M.D., Dumbya is delusional, yet again!



.

[jody]

91. Thanks for the article link. n/t

:hi:

[TaleWgnDg]

94. You're welcome, jody, and there's more here . . .

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/09/katrina-response-has-us-lawmakers.php (Jurist News, September 9, 2005)
.

[LouisianaLiberal]

16. The die is cast (this phrase was orig related to this very situation)

If we still had a real republic the reasoning behind posse comitatus would never be questioned. Ceasar and Sulla crossed the Rubicon, but we cannot.

This is just another way of saying "In order to save X we must dismantle it" They have tried the same trick with entitlement programs, government "bureaucracy", and anything else that weakens their control.

A standing army, or in this case, a working army, should never be allowed within the borders. This ancient law was adopted for a very good reason. Leaders are corruptible, and with the power to control the people on their own land, they will most certainly become corrupt.

(from an earlier post)

[electricray]

17. Wow this is a bad idea.

I sense a DU Action Corps Media Blast coming on. I didn't want to get all tinfoil about the Katrina response and pretty much all disaster handling by the Bushies, but it is starting to look as though the goal is to make the handling look sooooo bad, that when Bush suggests more military control over autonomous states, mainstream America says "He is a genius."

I really think they miscalculated the MSM bloodlust that led to real hurricane coverage and the pulling back of the curtain that has so long been pulled over poverty and racism. I don't think anyone is going to believe that the Pentagon can handle anything other than blowing things to sh*t-pieces and then f-ing up the recovery. With the exception of the Bush base, which I firmly believe is a ridiculous exaggeration of the real percentage of poll respondants. No body ever calls me to ask me what I think of that troll and his "entourage".

[dooner]

18. Anybody feel a draft?

This could surely open the door to a "select" draft. Draft people with "disaster relief" skills to be ready to defend America from natural disasters. Sounds a lot better than drafting people to kill and die in Iraq.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

23. Yes. And they will repackage it...

...somehow, perhaps as you suggest, compulsory service in the new "Emergency Disaster Relief Corps." Then they'll use these unsuspecting kids to continue imperialism as usual.

http://www.karlandkinggeorge.com/The_Draft.html

[IA_Seth]

41. I wouldn't be opposed

To clarify, I wouldn't be opposed to a National Draft that was used to form a 'Reconstruction Corps' or something similar, as long as this group was formed for use WITHIN the US borders only.

I would love to serve my country if I knew it meant actually serving my country and not the possibility of going to fight in a war that I disagree with.

[BlueCaliDem]

52. I Oppose ANY Draft As Long As * is pResident

...or any other Republican in the White House.
War is profitable for Corporations, and Corporations vote solidly for Republicans, and Republicans these days lust wars--a great excuse to drain dollars by the military industrial powerhouses.
As long as Republicans are in the WH, and hold majorities in Congress (both House and Senate), I pertinently OPPOSE a national draft in any way, shape, and/or form.

[Megahurtz]

78. Amen, Sistah!

:thumbsup:

[ladylibertee]

19. I don't know, It seems like a good idea, but not for this admin.

[jaysunb]

20. Waco , anyone ?

:evilfrown:

[are_we_united_yet]

21. Cripe!

Martial law.

[dutchdemocrat]

22. Well

Is this not exactly is the National Guard for?

Is this not duplicity?

[Tesla]

34. That's what I thought, and I'm sure alot of 40 yr+ NG thought the same !

I bet 80% never DREAMED they would be used in a forgein war.

[BlueCaliDem]

56. Precies! (Dutch for "exactly!") This Scary New * Idea is...

...pure redundancy!
My younger sister (see pic) is in the Tennessee National Guard, as well as her hubby, and they are both in Iraq since October 2004.
FAct of the matter is, * has stretched our military too thin, and needs fresh meat.
The horrendous hurricanes only give Rove (therefore Bush) the opening to institute a national draft to carry on their perpetual war in the middle east since recruiting new troops is not unlike pulling the proverbial "teeth".
Luckily, my sister has a somewhat "safer" position in Iraq, but her husband flies over Mosul in a helicopter regurlarly, and he mans the gun and has shot on Iraqi insurgents/people.
What baffles me is, that they both truly, and deeply detest the Iraqis!
I thought our troops didn't hate the Iraqi people, but the way they spoke about Iraqis when they were here on vacation (from 8-24 thru 9-8) they didn't mince any words regarding their feelings (and the feelings of their fellow troops) of the Iraqis.
On the other hand, two weeks before she arrived to our home for their leave, she lost two fellow soldiers in a suicide bombing and was pretty depressed.
But baffles me about him, is that he had the gall to call Rumsfeld "my man"--in my home, no less!
Needless to say, I was upset about that, but we made up before they returned to Iraq.

[teryang]

24. National resources are grossly overallocated to the Pentagon's

...weapons procurement programs and war contracts. Now when government inability to support infrastructure and respond to natural diaster are demonstrable the solution is more military? Go figure.

[GeorgeGist]

25. Bush is a Natural Disaster and a Terrorist.

And so far the Military supports him. :shrug:

[Shipwack]

26. NO! You incompetent dolt!

Quote:
In San Antonio yesterday, he heard a two-star general call the Katrina rescue efforts a "train wreck" of failed coordination and communications, one that could be improved with a national response plan.

We have a national response plan already, moron. It's just that the incompetent cronies you hired never bothered reading it!!!

:argh:

[Bridget Burke]

27. Harris County Judge Bob Eckels mentioned the National Plan....

Yesterday on TV. Here's a reference from a speech he gave last January:

Today, Harris County is better prepared than any major urban area in the country for a natural or man-made disaster. The reason goes back to what we discussed at the outset: No other community in America can match the cooperation we see here at all levels of government – and between the public and private sectors.

Our progress is rooted in “Three Cs: cooperation with our neighbors, coordination among responders, and seamless communication between all. We have learned new ways of thinking and working together; we have set in place forward-looking plans for sharing information and critical assets; and these efforts, in turn, have also prepared us for the more likely accidents, natural disasters and emergencies we deal with everyday.

Last year I watched as fire engines from four different departments joined together to provide a decontamination spray for children from Aldine participating in our third major state sponsored disaster training drill. It was clear that the “National Plan” for disaster response put forth by President Bush and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge works. Through uniform training and planning any of those firemen or engines could have been dropped into a disaster in Houston, Galveston, Dallas, or New York or Chicago, stand shoulder to shoulder with their colleagues and function seamlessly as a well oiled machine.

www.judgeeckels.org/soc.asp

This was the "Original" plan endorsed by Bush & Tom Ridge (anybody remember him?) Houston did not bear the brunt of the storm, although regions along the Coast had some damage & many remain without power. The Reliant Center area (including the Astrodome) have been set up to coordinate relief efforts. So we're well fixed to help East Texas & Southern Louisiana. But Bush visited San Antonio?

If we have so many "Regular" military that they can be spared--why aren't they in Iraq & Afghanistan? That would free up the National Guard to do the jobs they signed up for.

[0007]

28. Banana Republic mentality!

[rodeodance]

29. but watch Congress pass this idea!!

[0007]

31. This will be DeLay's ticket to freedom! Congress will pass

it indeed.

[DemonFighterLives]

30. B*shie destroys the infrastructure

and then hires Rummy and cheney to fix it. Same old same old.
Get these reformers out of there.
We were way better off before dubco rode into town.

[tom_paine]

32. Busheviks ALWAYS use hideous tragedies to capitalize their agenda

In this case, their agenda is the looting and destruction of America.

[tainowarrior]

33. Instead of putting the military in charge

why not have a civilian counterpart to the military that is just as efficient, and does the job?

This is what happens when an entire society's resources are funelled into ONE institution. It's the only one that can do the job.

We shouldn't militarize the civilian component, we should make it just as efficient as the military.

[AzDar]

35. No. you drunken chimpanzee, stop the friggin' war and bring the

National Guard troops back, so that they may perform the duties for which they were TRULY intended.
So suspicious..."natural disaster so vast"..."terror attacks so destructive"...Wow, he's really made the U.S. a safer place, hasn't he? Gawd, what a lying, polarizing , democracy-thwarting LOSER!!!!

[dhinojosa]

37. Next thing you know we will be made to quarter our soldiers.

Grrr.

[ixion]

38. absolutely not.

:grr:

[tk2kewl]

39. ...because they're so proficient at their core copetency...

it's time for them to branch out and diversify. :sarcasm:

[sakabatou]

40. Addicted to power.

[THUNDER HANDS]

42. Imagine a Democrat proposed this

Republicans would be drawing up impeachment papers 5 minutes after the story hit the wires.

[Sandpiper]

45. The Militia Nuts would have gone insane with fear

And probably would have gone on a bombing spree.

[xxqqqzme]

43. 'just as long as I'm the dictator' eom

[Sandpiper]

44. They've gutted the 4th & 5th Amendments, Now they're after Posse Comitatus

9/11 was used as an excuse to to remove the biggest bulwarks against the Police State that the right has always wanted:

The 4th and 5th Amendments


Now they're after the biggest barrier to domestic militarism:

The Posse Comitatus Act



Neocons see every disaster as an opportunity to further their darkest policy goals.

[Nothing Without Hope]

46. *** PLEASE READ THIS COMPILATION THREAD FOR THE FULL BACK STORY ***

This is a major, major constitutional crisis we're heading into, one the neocons have been preparing for for a long time. This thread talks about Bush's comments about more military power, with of course him in sole charge of the military. Please read the FULL THREAD - not only the opening post.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112
Thread title: Missing A KEY POINT in *'s speech: POWER GRAB FOR POTUS AND MILITARY

There are MUST-READ articles linked to in the replies as well. For example:

On the dictatorial powers of the President under FEMA (Reply #31)- this will CURL YOUR HAIR:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790882

The meaning, history and precedents of the Posse Comitatus act: (Reply #16):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790545

The infamous 2001 Yoo Memo, another of those Bush DOJ memos that blatantly ignores the Constitution and all law to say that Bush has dictatorial powers. This one says he has sole control of the US military and sole power to declare war - and folks, he can declare martial law any time he pleases for "civil unrest" and under one of those FEMA executive orders, Congress can't even REVIEW it for SIX MONTHS (reply #23)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790660

THERE IS MUCH MORE, AND MORE WILL BE POSTED. PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD:

People, I believe that one of the reasons (there are others) for the deliberate delay and blockage of aid to the Katrina-hit areas by the feds was to set up what was supposed to be a big contrast between "efficient" federal efforts when they finally arrived vs "incompetent" local/state efforts. This would help with PR to push for what they REALLY want, which is further suspension of the Constitution and concentration of powers in the POTUS. Didn't work -- yet -- in part because the feds are NOT efficient and also because their lies to blame all mistakes on local and state authorities didn't come off all that well either. But THEY WILL NOT GIVE UP - they want Bush to be a dictator with just some flim-flam trappings of democracy to fool the people, and they see this as their chance.

So now Bush says we should have more of what was the WORST of the Katrina response and nothing else. Just think how many more thousands would have died if NO ONE but the feds had had any power after the storm - as it was, hundreds and perhaps thousands have died directly because of their failure to deliver aid and repeated blockage of aid from anyone else, civil or foreign. We're not supposed to check the laws and find that the federal government ALREADY has full power in disasters and it was not invoked for DAYS while the WH and their media mouthpieces LIED about it. Oh, and by the way, yes, he would be a military dictator, but we're not supposed to notice that.

[stillcool]

98. i just caught up to you...

thanks for the link...looks like a 'must read'...

[converted_democrat]

47. Call your Reps and Senators now! We can't let this happen.........

Tell everyone you know about this power grab and what the potential ramifications are. This is sooo important. I really don't think most understand the gravity of the situation. Tell your puke friends about this too, explain that if there is ever a Dem president again they will inherit this power too. Do they want that?



on edit- Be sure and call your politicians, don't assume someone else will do it. Everyone on this board needs to take this issue up, and call, fax, and write in.

[Tippy]

49. I happened on this earlier today

< http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm >

After reading this

<http://www.propagandamatrix.com/Pages/Sept05/240905Comitatus.htm >

Here is a copy of my letter:

President George W. Bush yesterday called on Congress to consider giving the U.S. military a leading role in recovery efforts in a catastrophic natural disaster or terrorist attack, a break .....

HANDS OFF THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT

This act has been gutted to far already..If anything the Act needs to be made stronger to protect the rights of citizens

The Act weas crafted while our government was still sane — forbade the use of federal troops as civil law enforcement officers.

That is a good thing.

We can't allow Congress to repeal this Act, using our armed forces for anything other than aiding in evacuations and disaster relief in times of crisis is wrong, yet our armed forces were sent into New Orleans armed as if they were going to war, to stop the looters, sure there was some looting but if you read as many accounts of the looting as I have you would see most of it was done for food water, diapers etc. Since when are our citizens found guilty without a trial? If our Government had responded the way it should have and got in there and helped like they were asked, people would not have been hungry and thirsty, and many lives would have been saved.

Far too many bricks in the beautiful building we call the U.S. Constitution have already been loosened. The structure is in danger of coming down. We need leaders who will shore it up, not tear it down further.

Thank you,

[drb]

50. This will end up being used to support THE DRAFT!

nt

[fooj]

51. The "real" moderate repubs DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN!!!

Good luck, asshole!

[BlueCaliDem]

53. Yeah, but they're in the Minority within their own Party...

...and have NADA to say these days.
I know a lot of "moderate" Republicans here in California, but as "moderate" as they are, they still voted en masse for * last Pres. Election.
They'd rather vote for a radical rightwinger, anti-American Republican than any Democrat.
Remember, they truly believe in Reagan's 11th Commandment: "Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
Brainwashed. WEAK! The LOT of them!

[American Infidel]

54. We are marching steadily and surely towards Imperialism

Mark my words, one day this country will be an empire with an autocratic leader at its helm.

[rodeodance]

55. so, has anyone heard anyone in the msm report on the misreporting?

[Coastie for Truth]

58. Bush Urges Shift in Relief Responsibilities, Washington Post

Bush Urges Shift in Relief Responsibilities,Congress Asked to Consider Placing Pentagon in Charge of Disaster Response

On Sunday, President Bush called on Congress to consider a larger role for U.S. armed forces in responding to natural disasters, as he completed what White House aides called a weekend "fact-finding" mission to determine whether the Pentagon needs more control.

"Clearly, in the case of a terrorist attack, that would be the case, but is there a natural disaster -- of a certain size -- that would then enable the Defense Department to become the lead agency in coordinating and leading the response effort?" Bush said after a briefing from military leaders at Randolph Air Force Base here. "That's going to be a very important consideration for Congress to think about."

Bush has told aides that one of the major breakdowns in the Hurricane Katrina response was the federal government's inability to seize control of rescue and relief efforts. Under existing law and procedure, a state governor is in charge when natural disasters strike and is responsible for deploying the National Guard, though in certain cases, the president can order troops to support local law enforcement.

Bush is asking Congress to consider a major change, potentially shifting federal responsibility for major natural disasters from the Department of Homeland Security to the nation's top military generals. The Defense Department has been hesitant to take such a role because of sensitivity to the idea of adopting a police presence on U.S. soil and because of strains on the armed forces from the war in Iraq.

Some interesting points in the article-

*DHS and FEMA and Louisiana bungled in applying the military's existing capabilities to rescue Katrina victims.

*Rather than creating new laws and authorities, government officials simply need to execute existing plans competently, they said.

*Federal law, response plans and congressional studies make it plain that there is already abundant statutory, regulatory, and budgetary authority to request the military. (But critics said that Bush and Blanco were too slow to do so for Katrina.}

*Under the existing "National Response Plan" local military commanders are authorized and pre-approved "to respond to requests of civil authorities" for "immediate response" needs, including rescue, evacuation, medical treatment, restoration of vital services and safeguarding and distribution of food and supplies.

*The military is also allowed to provide whatever other disaster support is necessary.

[rodeodance]

59. anybody why the Feds did not already have a nat. disaster plan?

[stillcool]

62. They do....and its explicit...

at FEMA available at their website. I had downloaded a copy way back when but have since deleted it. Lots of information on their site.

[jody]

76. IMO, explicit is not the proper term because it does not specifically

designate individuals to tasks nor does it grant them authority and resources to do that task.



HS/FEMA funded and was supposed to have experts to guide state-local agencies in preparing emergency plans. There were many failures in Katrina that HS/FEMA could and should have avoided.

[stillcool]

79. i think it does....

there is a certain protocol following a governor's request for a declared federal emergency. While events may require different assistance....if you read Gov. Blanco's request it specifically states what help was needed ie, #of guard troops, debris removal, evacuation help, generators etc., What is all too apparent is that FEMA no longer had the resources, nor the co-ordination.. for a variety of reasons to be effective.

[jody]

85. An effective plan must include detailed tasks, assigning responsibility

and authority to positions or by name, and assignment of resources.

I read Louisiana's plans approved by FEMA and they did not satisfy those minimal criteria.

I guess we simply disagree.

:hi:

[stillcool]

88. i don't think we do....

its just that this whole bit with the Pentagon taking the lead in disaster relief has my back-up. I think our government structure is broken...on many, many levels. What is written in manuals is obviously not read. Incompetence is the norm, people in positions they are clueless about. I am just now reading 'A Very Thin Line' about the Iran/Contra Affairs, and there too is such a fine example of government dis-connect....

[jody]

89. I see we do agree. I oppose the notion of using our military for domestic

law enforcement.

On the other hand, the active military has the largest pool of experts in the various aspects of logistics and operations. I believe the record shows that when allowed to function in a support role to local and state authority, active military troops perform in an outstanding manner.

Things really get derailed when federal political appointees are allowed to direct support. In addition to law enforcement, that's what Bush wants and it will fail again.

There can be no more committed force than local and state authorities who have friends and loved ones as victims in an emergency like Katrina.

If federal civilians had just gotten out of the way and allowed state Guard units augmented by federal troops do their jobs, most of the problems in NOLA and elsewhere would not have occurred.

Given that we have invested trillions in DoD resources, it makes sense to me to use some of those resources to help state and local authorities but, NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT -- THAT'S A STATE PROBLEM.

[Nothing Without Hope]

96. See my post just above this one - it has the site for the 426 page

National Response Plan, which the Bush Administration appears to be pretending doesn't exist, and some other information in the smoking gun category of proof of responsibility.

[Nothing Without Hope]

95. OF COURSE THERE IS A NATIONAL PLAN!!! It is a DHS document and

it very clearly gives full authority to Bush and to Chertoff to do whatever is needed in an emergency. Authority that they did NOT invoke for DAYS as people died. Chertoff didn't even designate the Katrina a "national incident" for DAYS. The responsibility is clear.

And the national response plan exists already. It's called, cryptically :sarcasm: "The National Response Plan."

Here is the NRP itself:
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRP_FullText.pdf

Here is a thread on the NRP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4668155
Thread title: The Buck Stops Here: NATIONAL RESPONSE PLAN

Here is how Chertoff delayed declaring a "national incident" after Katrina - and thus starting the federal response - for DAYS:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001136746

And here is the actual memo that PROVES Chertoff delayed in this way, a true smoking gun:
http://www.realcities.com/multimedia/nationalchannel/news/KRT_Packages/archive/katrina/memo_to_cabinet_members.pdf

Finally, here is a post with links to the August 27 letter and August 28 clarification from Blanco to Bush/DHS asking for declaration of state of emergency and the Aug 27 response from Bush:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2064469&mesg_id=2067532

The truth is very easy to find, but they keep on lying. Amazing, to pretend that there is no National Response Plan and that the delays and blocks of aid were the fault of the state and local officials.

This is a power grab for martial law, that's very clear. I urge you to read ALL of this thread, including the replies, to see just how very, very clear this truly is:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112
thread title: Missing A KEY POINT in *'s speech: POWER GRAB FOR POTUS AND MILITARY

[Fridays Child]

60. In Bushworld™, every single event is a reason to shift more power...

...to an unbalanced and secretive federal government.

[texpatriot2004]

61. NO! He can't use the power they already have properly. n/t

[Helga Scow Stern]

63. Rummy in charge? He failed miserably in Iraq.

[Helga Scow Stern]

64. And nominated!

[Coastie for Truth]

65. Historic Role of the Corps of Engineers

Until FDR established the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) and the WPA (Works Progress Administration) - massive public works (like Court Houses, Post Offices, etc. and dams and levees, etc) was the Corps' job.

Recommendation - any military contingent mobilized for Disaster Recovery should be under the Command of an Officer of the Army Corps of Engineers or the Navy Civil Engineers Corps (SeaBees) - and both services should create a Corps of Engineers/Civil Engineers Corps "subspecialty" of disaster planning - mass disaster recovery specialist (like what FEMA used to do).

[Demit]

66. The Dept of Defense for "maintaining social stability"...

Does that send a chill down anybody else's spine? If this gets any kind of traction in Congress, and if there isn't holy hell raised in opposition by our supposed Democratic representatives, then I'll know once and for all that the two parties are in it together. Opening the door to the use of military on US soil to control its own citizens is exactly what the Bushistas want. It is so anti-democratic it makes my eyes cross. God help us if this idea isn't shouted down immediately.

[Coastie for Truth]

67. The only thing the military can add

is the "Incident Command System" - which is what emergency responders in California do all the time (especially when Fire Department "Mutual Assistance Agreements" kick in) - we learned in the eartquakes.

[ClintonTyree]

68. The gun nuts use this excuse all the time......

"Rather than creating new laws and authorities, government officials simply need to execute existing plans competently, they said".

Sounds exactly like th NRA, doesn't it?
"There's enough laws on the books already, just enforce the ones that we have. There's no need for any new laws."

They scream that crap every time any new law is attempted to be enacted to control the sale of firearms. Now, if it's good enough for the goose, isn't it also good for the gander? We don't need any new laws regarding the Pentagon's role in disaster relief. Any attempt to give broad, sweeping powers to the military is an invitation for it to be abused. Rest assured, if anything like this was enacted there WOULD be abuse of it. They want more centralized power to further their police state agenda an we MUST NOT allow them to have it. NEVER! :grr: :grr: :grr:

[beingthere]

69. scary stuff, that

[mike923]

70. alright, get ready to jump on me, but i agree with him...

The military is the only organization that is large enough, equiped enough, and has the best ability to step in the quickest in situations like Katrina.

Any other government organization is going to be slower to react. People in these organizations have families, and are more apt to think of their job as something they do 9-5. The military reacts to orders immediately.

It wasn't until the military landed in the gulf coast that things started to happen. If we want immediate responses to natural disasters, we have to have the military as one of our tools.

[stevedeshazer]

71. Two words

Posse Comitatus.

Look it up.

[jody]

73. Presidents can use the military except for domestic law enforcement.

Our founders hated standing armies and that's why our military is strictly subject to civilian authority that is changed every four years. Our Army and Air Force cannot be used for domestic law enforcement.

Neo cons are using Katrina to disguise their efforts to create a police state under an emergency declared by a president.

[converted_democrat]

87. You could not be more wrong.........

The president already has the power to use the military to help victims, he does not "need" this power, period. This is the second time they have tried to pull this. The first time was shortly after 9/11. Grassley suggested it, and the conservatives went rightfully nuts. This should scare the hell out of anyone from either side of the aisle that has any brains.

edit- for my awful grammer

[librechik]

72. Did shrubbie NEVER take a civics course?

it's like he doesn't know the most basic facts about our foundations. Surely someone told him why we don't want the military involved in that sort of thing.

Guess not! he didn't know about how occupying a big country is harder work than he can imagine, either.

Dream on, idiot!

[Megahurtz]

74. "larger role" or "larger military"?

:scared:

[jody]

77. * wants to use the military for domestic law enforcement, that's the issue

[Megahurtz]

82. I know, when I was saying "larger military"

I was referring to the Draft. I should have added "sarcasm"
(even though I really think that they would possibly use this as a forefront for the Draft)

In any event, this is very bad.:scared:

[jody]

83. We agree "very bad".

If voters let congress overturn posse comitatus, then our dream of a government of the people, by the people, for the people will surely have perished.

[kma3346]

75. After they push this through....

I'm going to be very worried as to what's going to happen next.

:scared:

[Rex]

80. This would be so much easier if he was a dictator

the words came from his own mouth!

WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA!

[stickdog]

81. Of course. Keep the National Guard overseas indefinitely,

so you have to use the regular military AGAINST the American public.

It makes perfect sense, if your real enemy is WE THE PEOPLE.

[jody]

84. It's easier when more of the regular military are not U.S. citizens. n/t

[DELUSIONAL]

86. Bushie and other Prez have more than enough authority

right now -- bushie just didn't choose to order the military to HELP.

Many Veterans have personal stories of how they assisted civilians during natural disasters -- I know because I'm a military brat and my father was involved in HELPING during natural disasters during his long military career.

I believe I read somewhere that comparing military response to Katrina and to Rita.

Also a valid point which should be made often -- the states need their entire National Guard to assist in times of crisis -- within their state. Local knowledge is vital -- plus the response time is greatly decreased when the NG comes from the community. That should be a no-brainer!

The lack of use of the US military -- to HELP before and during and AFTER Katrina is a subject that really irritates me no end. Because I KNOW what the Navy in particular could do to help -- but then I do believe that the Navy and US military has been so degraded by this bushie/rummy gang that it will be years before it can recover.

[stepnw1f]

90. He Has Overstepped One Too Many Times

Bush needs to go NOW!

[AuntiBush]

92. Same here.

Don't like it either... Colorado (Bunker Crap) during major Nat'l disasters from 9/11 on up.

God, how do people support this jerk!?!

[GetTheRightVote]

93. NO way do we want the govt to run that show, we would be ruled

not govened if that were to happen. The evil empire of this adminstration and others to follow would destory us all with their greed and hunger for power.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[converted_democrat]

97. ....