FEMA Plans to Reimburse Faith Groups for Aid

[Twitch14]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/26/AR2005092601799.html

After weeks of prodding by Republican lawmakers and the American Red Cross, the Federal Emergency Management Agency said yesterday that it will use taxpayer money to reimburse churches and other religious organizations that have opened their doors to provide shelter, food and supplies to survivors of hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

FEMA officials said it would mark the first time that the government has made large-scale payments to religious groups for helping to cope with a domestic natural disaster.

Civil liberties groups called the decision a violation of the traditional boundary between church and state, accusing FEMA of trying to restore its battered reputation by playing to religious conservatives.

<snip>

For churches, synagogues and mosques that have taken in hurricane survivors, FEMA's decision presents a quandary. Some said they were eager to get the money and had begun tallying their costs, from electric bills to worn carpets. Other said they probably would not apply for the funds, fearing donations will dry up if the public comes to believe they were receiving government handouts.

[madeline_con]

1. On the FEMA website, "Operation Blessing"

is a Pat Robertson thing that lets his little group pocket the $$ donated to that link, and dole it out as they see fit.

So much for separation of chuirch & state!

[dusty64]

34. That is just another

outrage that received virtually NO attention.

[slay]

45. People who donated to "Operation Blessing" didn't know Pat Robertson would

be getting ALL THAT MONEY! Man I'd be super pissed if I had donated to them. This is going to make people not want to donate money in the future. Yet another great job by the Bush team. :(

[bettyellen]

2. THEY REIMBURSE THE FUCKING RED CROSS!!!!

it's a fucking ponzi scam.
:puke:

[54anickel]

4. Makes you wonder why one would bother to donate, doesn't it? Why

give now, when you know you'll give later through your tax payments. This seems so screwed up.

So, when I figure my taxes this year, on that line where it says I owe so much money, can I just write in "I gave at the office"?

[slay]

46. Church and state have quickly become almost one under Bush

I've said it before and I'll say it again - These people are fascists!

[dusty64]

33. Kinda explains the RC

spreading the regime's lies doesn't it, one hand washes the other. I think I'm done giving $$$ to large organizations, from now on I'm only giving to small ones mainly local.

[54anickel]

3. When did churches start expecting reimbursements? This just seems

so wrong on so many levels. Doing good deeds was one of the main drivers for their tax-exempt status to begin with. I know the church that I attend would never expect gov't reimbursement for doing "God's work".

So much for the "Good Samaritan" tale. :eyes:

[Twitch14]

8. I dunno....

...so it is the MSM, but it's an interesting choice of examples.

They use the Salvation Army to show that groups are actively lobbying for reimbursement. That's a large national organization with a history of being joined at the hip with the extreme RW Rethugs (see the SA's attempts to circumvent federal law with the "faith-based initiatives"). They need to be told to shove it in a serious way.

But for their other example of the smaller church that opened their doors......I've gotta say to give them the money with a big "thank you". In the blatant absence of FEMA, far too much of the relief effort has fallen on the little guys, including local churches. Those are the people, who gave without thought of reimbursement, that should get this money.

Remember, this is unprecedented. Unless there's some wrinkle of federal disaster law I'm not aware of that would have let these local churches know they were getting the money back, take care of them the same way we should take care of the refugees. (I.E. unbiased in either direction.)

[54anickel]

10. While I understand the hardship brought on to the church that opened

it's doors to the Red Cross, I just don't think that the church applying for reimbursement from FEMA is right. Rent or partial utility bill coverage from the Red Cross I could understand (then again the Red Cross would just hit FEMA up for the dough).

When FEMA, or the local govt's commandeer boats, tractor-trailer rigs, and whatever, are those people eligible for reimbursement from FEMA?

[bettyellen]

9. it's a fucking scam, they are the ones keeping the handouts

we pay twice for the help we receive once, or in poor NO's case, never.

[kath]

13. It's WAY past time to eliminate tax-exempt status for churches.

[Lindacooks]

16. Yeah, I thought that charities were supposed to make up for

cuts in the federal government budget. Freepers are always whining about how the private sector, especially churches and charities, are so much better at handling poverty and its effects. What the fuck happened?

[anitar1]

32. Millions have been handed out this last year to churches

with the approval of our dear leader. They are on the receiving end of tax dollars now for all their "Faith Based" activities. Just apply and you get it if you are the right flavor, that is. All greedy pigs, IMHO. Meanwhile social programs for the rest of the country are non existent. So if anyone needs help , just go to church, they will take care of all your needs.

[jobycom]

5. They are tax exempt because they use their money for charities

and yet we are going to pay them back for the charities they spent their money on? Yippee, I guess that frees up their tax exempt money for bigger churches and more donations to the Republican Party.

Meanwhile, my parents spent so much money on cleaning up their own property that my mother 66 year old mother has had to get a job at Winn Dixie because their retirement is almost spent.

[BiggJawn]

6. So am I going to be reimbursed for the blankets and bottled water...

We dropped off?

Never mind the "Boundary between Church and State", it's just plain fucking DISHONEST!

So everyone in a community brought goods and cash to their local church. The Church takes these supplies and maybe water and other things bought with the cash AND the cash, down to Katrinaland.

NOW, here comes FEMA, checquebook in hand, saying "How much did you distribute? We'll cover it so you don't have to..."

Hey, CHERTOFF! Give the money to US! The damn churches were just a CONDUIT! WE are the SOURCE! Write the fat cheques for US!

"it Can't Happen Here"
the fuck it can't.

[Erika]

11. Yep.

And the last cent I will give to charities until W and his policies are gone.

[Erika]

12. We gave $200 to the Salvation Army

and now our taxes are reimbursing them for the $200 "they" gave?

It'll be a cold day in hell before we give another cent.

[leesa]

36. Make sure the Salvation Army knows how you feel.

[TankLV]

57. You are so right. It will be a cold day in hell before a give these

whore bastards another red cent.

I want money BACK!

[Qibing Zero]

7. Oh FFS!

There's really nothing else to say. One step at a time, we're becoming a theocracy.

[kineneb]

14. At least the charities I donate to

won't be getting reimbursed for anything...Planned Parenthood, Electronic Freedom Foundation, California Native Plant Society, Habitat for Humanity, Doctors Without Boarders...nope, no tax money going there..

Maybe that's why I give to them...pisses off the bastards.

[imaginary girl]

15. Perhaps while they're at it they can reimburse all the volunteers who ...

... have given so unselfishly of their time and energy (Like Ida Briggs, for example, and the many, many other volunteers she witnessed).

Oh, wait, that's not what they're proposing, is it?

[rodeodance]

17. not a good idea!

[imaginary girl]

55. That's why I was being sarcastic ... n/t

[slay]

18. I want to be reimbursed too - I've "donated" a lot of money to my church

over the years. Err.. well, I would have if I went to church. Hehehe. I'm thinking of starting The Mighty Church of Slay just for all the big payoffs and tax breaks these groups get under Bush. :(

[Penndems]

19. FEMA Plans to Reimburse Faith Groups for Aid

As Civil Libertarians Object, Religious Organizations Weigh Whether to Apply

By Alan Cooperman and Elizabeth Williamson
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, September 27, 2005; Page A01

After weeks of prodding by Republican lawmakers and the American Red Cross, the Federal Emergency Management Agency said yesterday that it will use taxpayer money to reimburse churches and other religious organizations that have opened their doors to provide shelter, food and supplies to survivors of hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

FEMA officials said it would mark the first time that the government has made large-scale payments to religious groups for helping to cope with a domestic natural disaster.

"I believe it's appropriate for the federal government to assist the faith community because of the scale and scope of the effort and how long it's lasting," said Joe Becker, senior vice president for preparedness and response with the Red Cross.

Civil liberties groups called the decision a violation of the traditional boundary between church and state, accusing FEMA of trying to restore its battered reputation by playing to religious conservatives.

Link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/26/AR2005092601799.html
**********************************************************************
Your tax dollars at work. :mad:

[Erika]

20. Posted earlier - but I will be damned if I give to charity twice

I give to them and then Bush "reimburses" them for my gift. Cold day in hell before we give again. I'm calling the Salvation Army to tell them tomorrow.

[Penndems]

21. Thanks - beat me to it!

I am absolutely incredulous about this. My tax money going to religious organizations? We've given $150 dollars to the Red Cross. If we wanted to donate twice, we'd do it voluntarily.

[slay]

26. I want back the 10% of my paycheck that I've been "donating" to my church

for all these years! BAH! No wonder religious nuts love Bush - HE PAYS THEM TO!! :mad:

[Rageneau]

31. Since Smirk is going to reward Christians, Jesus won't have to.

True Christians should refuse any reimbursement. Funny that Bush doesn't know that.

[wellstone_democrat]

22. Great---I'll never donate again. Nice pandering FEMA

In the future I plan to be *very* careful about donations. Between the big advertising and administrative budgets of some, the lobbying to get federal money from others I guess I will figure that I already "gave" on April 15 and ignore all but the local and those that spend more than 95% of ALL funds donated or made through other sources directly "on the ground."

[Kagemusha]

23. So this is what the "trackers" were for?

No way this is something spontaneous after the fact.. they had to have been planning for reimbursement of charitable organizations before Katrina struck. It's the only explanation that makes sense of FEMA's outraged behavior at anyone trying to deliver aid without a tracking #, which PREVIOUSLY was restricted to contractors...

Ergo, charitable organizations are now contractors.

[bobbieinok]

24. interesting, good point

[slay]

25. So if I had donated money through Pat Robertson's group I'd get paid back?

WTF? Why the hell are churches and religious groups getting paid for helping out and NOBODY ELSE? This is playing to the "religious right" and should NOT be allowed to happen. These churches DONATED their time and money, they didn't lend it. :mad:

[neweurope]

27. The RED CROSS will get reimbursed also???

That's crazy, the whole idea is crazy. What, please, does the Red Cross DO with those millions of donations, then? Hand it over to the Bushistas?

--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[China_cat]

29. After Hugo

the Red Cross tried to charge one of the communities here in SC for the 'aid' it brought in. People just laughed at them.

[TankLV]

58. Try BILLIONS - over TWO BILLION to be more accurate.

Disgusting.

[VegasWolf]

28. Aha! I see how the game works! Next time I won't make ANY donations

to ANYBODY, I will simply say I donated when I paid my taxes!

[A-Possum]

30. Pffft

I thought they were "charitable" organizations. I thought that was what they were for. Giving of yourself to others.

Guess I was wrong. It's just a shell game.

[leesa]

35. Sorta defeats the whole purpose of charity, doesn't it?

Why have some churches become so greedy?

[Solly Mack]

37. well said! exposes the hypocrisy

[noonwitch]

38. Reimbursement is okay as long as the organizations are held to a standard

Out and out reimbursement for services rendered is fine. The organizations will have itemized and dated receipts and a paper trail to back their work up. Government funding of religious programs needs to stay at that level, however.

[robcon]

41. Reimbursement is NOT OK!!!!!!!

Unless the government contracts with a provider, we don't owe anyone anything!!!!!

Only if we contracted with an NGO to perform a task should the government pay the bill.

[slay]

47. No, it's really not

Church + State = Fascism. I never would have donated had I known my money was going to churches and not to the people of New Orleans. :(

[AnotherMother4Peace]

39. Right wing religious pandering - pure & simple

[Fridays Child]

40. I prayed and lives were saved. Where's my check?

[onenote]

42. I'm not so sure how bad this is

First, as I understand it, other charitable organizations that raise money through tax-deductible contributions and spend it on relief efforts also get reimbursed.

Second, from a practical standpoint, it may be the most efficient use of the federal money. Its not as if the feds are going to maintain shelters and have the manpower to handle all aspects of the relief effort every where a disaster may strike. They rely on other organizations. Imagine if these other organizations didn't exist or didn't help. Then the government would have to pick up an even greater expense.

onenote

[AnotherMother4Peace]

43. One main reason they have tax exempt status - to solicit $ for charity

& believe me some of these organizations are doing VERY well

[AnotherMother4Peace]

44. Kick for another nomination

[Sgent]

48. I'm not sure how I feel

In some cases, religiously neutral assistance is probably acceptable for reimbursement (assuming we reimburse the likes of the Red Cross).

Why should a YMCA camp that houses and feeds resuce workers (real situation) for free, be denied reimbursement while a Red Cross tent city which does the same get's it?

That being said, there are some real issues regarding entanglement, but at least in theory I don't see a problem.

[onenote]

50. what I was trying to say, only said more clearly

[TankLV]

59. NONE should get "reimbursement". They cease being "charities" then.

They will never see a red cent from me again.

And I will call them tomorrow to tell them, too.

[Massachusetts]

49. Praise Geesus

Now put that $$$ in my Blind Trust.

[central scrutinizer]

51. does their opportunism know no bounds?

silly me, what a stupid question. This is just great - do nothing to help, then pour taxpayer money into right-wing supporters' coffers for doing "volunteer" work. Could they be more blatant?

[progressoid]

52. WHAT THE FUCK??? Are they going to reimburse me too?

I gave $ too!!! I wanna check!!! Waaaaa!!!

[really annoyed]

53. Wonderful.....

Well, not really.

This defeats the whole purpose of charity and good works.

I absolutely love this quote from the Washington Post:

The Rev. Flip Benham, director of Operation Save America, an antiabortion group formerly known as Operation Rescue, said, "Separation of church and state means nothing in a time of disaster; you see immediately what a farce it is."


It's a farce! The First Amendment is a farce! What an idiot. I'm so glad his organization is not accepting FEMA money.

[shrike]

54. Bad, bad, bad

REAL Bad.

I realize individual churches may be strapped for cash, but there are other ways of getting money. (I'm a churchgoer, BTW.)

You know you live in strange times when you agree with the guy who runs Operation Rescue.

[TankLV]

56. So, in other words, when all is said and done - these RE:LIGIOUS cults

are nothing but PAID WHORES who are not in any way shape of form "charities" and they have all professional whores working for them, and NO VOLUNTEERS!

So much for the lies and hype that they all did this out of the "goodness of their (black mercenary) hearts"!

[screembloodymurder]

60. I am dead set opposed to them spending one cent

of my money. This is work I expect FEMA to do. How can we stop this? Can we file suit?

[narragansett]

61. We should all request FEMA reimbursements

I think any of us that donated anything toward Katrina relief should file an application for reimbursement.