WaTimes: Bush seeks to federalize emergencies (end Posse Comitatus Act)

[paineinthearse]

See "Sen. Warner & Snow: "revise" Posse Comitatus & Insurrection Acts"
from Tue Sep-13-05 10:22 AM at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2086673&mesg_id=2086673

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050927-121122-3262r.htm

The Washington Times
www.washingtontimes.com

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Bush seeks to federalize emergencies
By Bill Sammon
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published September 27, 2005

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President Bush yesterday sought to federalize hurricane-relief efforts, removing governors from the decision-making process. "It wouldn't be necessary to get a request from the governor or take other action," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said yesterday. "This would be," he added, "more of an automatic trigger." Mr. McClellan was referring to a new, direct line of authority that would allow the president to place the Pentagon in charge of responding to natural disasters, terrorist attacks and outbreaks of disease. "It may require change of law," Mr. Bush said yesterday. "It's very important for us as we look at the lessons of Katrina to think about other scenarios that might require a well-planned, significant federal response -- right off the bat -- to provide stability."

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) accused Mr. Bush of attempting a power grab in the wake of fierce criticism that he responded too slowly to Hurricane Katrina a month ago. "Using the military in domestic law enforcement is generally a very bad idea," said Timothy Edgar, national security policy counsel for the ACLU. "I'm afraid that it will have unforeseen consequences for civil liberties."

Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco and Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour declined the president's offer to federalize the state's National Guard troops in the aftermath of Katrina. So Mr. Bush wants Congress to consider empowering the Pentagon with automatic control. Currently, the lead federal agency responsible for disaster relief is the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), which has just 2,500 employees and is a division of the Homeland Security Department. Mr. Bush has suggested that a more appropriate agency is the Department of Defense (DoD), which has 1.4 million active-duty troops. "I was speculating about was a scenario which would require federal assets to stabilize the situation -- primarily DoD assets -- and then hand back over to Department of Homeland Security," the president said.

But stabilizing a crisis might require federal troops to arrest looters and perform other law-enforcement duties, which would violate the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. The law was passed in the wake of the Civil War and Reconstruction to prevent the use of federal troops from policing elections in former Confederate states. The White House wants Congress to consider amending Posse Comitatus in order to grant the Pentagon greater powers. "There are two committees that are moving forward on hearings to look at what went wrong and what went right with Hurricane Katrina and to apply lessons learned," Mr. McClellan said. "And this is an issue that they should look at as they're discussing these issues. "We are also doing a comprehensive review within the federal government," he added.

more.....

[eallen]

1. Repeal of PC is bad idea. Fortunately, conservatives oppose it also.

[Eric J in MN]

38. What makes you say that conservatives oppose repealing

Posse Comitatus?

[eallen]

53. I watch what they say over in Freeper land.

[GayCanuck]

2. What happened

to all that first responders money that came from your Homeland Security legislation? I'm guessing a lot of the localities down there spent it on pool tables for their fire departments.

[northzax]

10. most bought really cool toys

to make their first responders and police more para-military like, not much use in a situation like this (I recall hearing about a municipality that bought bullet proof vests for their K-9 units, a noble gesture, but maybe not the first priority. It would be much simpler to simply mandate that every city of a certain size, or every region have a centralised command and control center (DC is constructing one now) with real communications capability and monitoring systems. Something like this would have increased the response of everyone to Katrina, as well as a terror attack.

Can any 'conservative' really support the extension of federal military power to domestic peace keeping activities? In a true, national emergency, this will be done anyway, in a local or regional one, we can deal with it. I'm always hearing about needing a static and strict interpretation of the Constitution, perhaps someone can point to the line about using the military to intervene in the affairs of a state?

anyone? anyone? bueller? bueller?

[sando]

3. Imagine this

This is only 2005 if Bush manages to end Posse Comitatus before the 2008 election who will be there to oust him from the WH? All he has to do is declare martial law the way Hitler did in Nazi Germany and from there start rounding up the opposition.

[neweurope]

8. Exactly. If this happens you're finished.

-------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[sando]

13. If it happens

I plan on becoming a political refugee to Canada.

[neweurope]

17. Ah - I seem to remember that the US and Canada have an agreement now

that US agents can arrest US citizens on Canadian soil... I'd read up on it.

------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[LifeDuringWartime]

19. what other countries have that agreement?

my guess is mexico does not.

[neweurope]

33. I wouldn't know about Mexico - aren't they in NORAD, too? But

Ireland does. I'm German, you have to excuse me.

-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[regnaD kciN]

35. I doubt Canada would continue to honor that agreement...

...under those circumstances.

[neweurope]

44. Hope is good but distrust is better - when it comes to

personal safety, at least. I would check up on it.

---------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Pachamama]

42. Got details on this agreement? I would like to know more...

...in fact, I am right now trying to verify just how much and what the US Gov't can and cannot do on Canadian Soil. (Including arresting US citizens, seizure of property owned by US citizens etc.)

[neweurope]

43. Hi Pachamama, I hadn't saved any of it and I don't know

the momentary state of affairs.
The agreement with Ireland - US officials can arrest people in Ireland EVEN IF THEY HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING AGAINST IRISH LAW - has been reported here on DU recently (I cannot use the search function unfortunately). I wondered at the time that people didn't find this more interesting.

Did some googling as to the agreement with Canada, couldn't come up with much. Maybe it would be best to ask around in a Canadian forum (Canadians don't like the idea very much either, I remember Canadians protesting when Bush went to visit last year) - or one of your politicians... *smirk* Anyway I think this whole thing is much too important to not watch it closely!

From Google:

MICHEL CHOSSUDOVSKY 2004 (re-printed 2005 on globalresearch)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411C.html
For nearly two years now, Ottawa has been quietly negotiating a far-reaching military cooperation agreement, which allows the US Military to cross the border and deploy troops anywhere in Canada, in our provinces, as well station American warships in Canadian territorial waters. This redesign of Canada's defense system is being discussed behind closed doors, not in Canada, but at the Peterson Air Force base in Colorado, at the headquarters of US Northern Command (NORTHCOM).
The creation of NORTHCOM announced in April 2002, constitutes a blatant violation of both Canadian and Mexican territorial sovereignty. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld announced unilaterally that US Northern Command would have jurisdiction over the entire North American region.

http://pbahq.smartcampaigns.com/taxonomy/term/71
Furthermore, as Army, Air, Naval, and Special Forces integrate, NATO and NORAD’s old frameworks are and will get a complete facelift—i.e., you ain’t seen nothin’ yet! To facilitate this shakeup (between the USA and Canada) a Binational Planning Group (BPG) now works in tandem with NORTHCOM (BPG is a mix of US and Canadian officers.). BPG has the following goals:
• to share maritime surveillance and intelligence
• to coordinate binational actions involving military and civil agencies
• to design and conduct joint training programs and exercises.
This means of naval and military integration came about in 2002 through the Canadian Department of National Defence (DND) who initiated the BPG. The BPG’s singular mission is to develop an “Enhanced Canada-US Security Cooperation with the US . . . starting with a simple two-year mandate, the BPG works alongside NorthCom and NORAD in Colorado Springs.”

It won’t be long before the militaries of these alleged sovereign states are fully integrated. In sum, here’s what Americans who’ve just moved to Canada have to look forward to:
“And ultimately what is at stake is that beneath the rhetoric, Canada will cease to function as a Nation:
(1) Its borders will be controlled by US officials and confidential information on Canadians will be shared with Homeland Security—(It’ll be easier to spot Americans living/hiding out in Canada if they’re not Canadians.)
(2) US troops and Special Forces will be able to enter Canada as a result of a binational arrangement.
(3) Canadian citizens can be arrested by US officials, acting on behalf of their Canadian counterparts and vice versa.

http://negocios.elmensajero.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&Itemid=29&func=view&id=47&catid=2
CREATING A NORTH AMERICAN COMMUNITY:MEX, USA & CAN
The governments of Canada, Mexico, and the United States should articulate as their long-range goal a common security perimeter for North America. In particular, the three governments should strive toward a situation in which a terrorist trying to penetrate our borders will have an equally hard time doing so no matter which country he elects to enter first. Like free trade a decade ago, a common security perimeter for North America is an ambitious but achievable goal that will require specific policy, statutory, and procedural changes in all three nations, including: • Harmonization of visa and asylum regulations, including convergence of the list of “visa waiver” countries; • Harmonization of entry screening and tracking procedures for people, goods, and vessels (including integration of name-based and biometric watch lists); • Harmonization of exit and export-tracking procedures; • Full sharing of data about the exit and entry of foreign nationals;

[Pachamama]

45. Hi NewEurope! Thanks for the info...

Yes, I am watching this VERY CAREFULLY! While I know that in the past there have been some agreements between the US and Canada that made many (myself included) very wary about rights in Canada for US citizens, especially those seeking refuge, I do know that in the last year, that Canada much to the chagrin of the Bush administration has taken some bold moves and actions to go against some of their prior agreements, including those related to NORAD and defense.

The Pachafamily is in the process of buying property in Canada...we are watching very carefully what is going on there. It will be ours and others refuge in the future if we continue down the fascist path here in the US.

[neweurope]

48. So I hope with all my heart that it really will be a refuge for you

and not a trap.

I've heard so many people on this board say "when it gets worse I'll go to Canada". That's why I find this so extremely important, and people should inform themselves and be informed. If this Canada thing is true - and I believe it is - look into similar agreements with Mexico, Great Britain, Australia; it would very much surprise me if they didn't try it there, too.

But then nothing is as it was; for Ireland to give up its sovereignty like this (especially as their first duty should be to EU) has truly deeply shaken me, and what shook me more was the fact that it disappeared very quickly from the headlines... Ah, and one more thing about that Ireland deal: If I remember correctly the US could arrest even IRISH folks in Ireland even if they don't do anything against IRISH law. And I'm sure that the US are pressuring other European countries for a similar agreement. My bet is Poland will be next. I am truly scared (and I'm alone because fellow Germans think I'm crazy... at least you have each other).

Sincerely

neweurope

[Pachamama]

49. Wirklich? Deine Deutsche Freunde denken du spinnst?

Ich wuerde denken dass die Deutsche, mehr als alle andere wuerden sehen was hier alles los geht und auch angstlich sein wuerden....

Wir leben jetzt in ein Alptraum...ich stell mich vor das was wir jetzt erleben und fuehlen ist sehr ahnlich zum was Deutsche die in zirka 1937/1938 erlebten und wunderten was sie tuen koennen.

Du spinnst nicht...deine Augen sind offnen...

[neweurope]

51. Dein Deutsch ist exzellent! - The main problem here as in the US

is the media. The only thing we ever hear about the US are the spectacular things, the Michael Jacksons, hurricanes etc. It doesn't help that the Democrat leaders are not raising a storm; if they were, it still would be reported here.

Press concentration is a very big problem. Lack of Internal freedom of the press, one of the big demands of the seventies and eighties, is a problem. Understaffing is a problem. I was a journalist myself, I know how hard it is to really check up on things when you don't have the time. And the main problem is TV (I threw out mine 16 years ago) because other than print media and internet TV hardly allows any background information; the very nature of TV and the way human brains are build let information and entertainment meaninglessly flow into each other.

And the main problem is the military-industrial complex which is truly global now and as influential here, EU wide and in the US.

I think we're fucked. I also think that we should be as informed as we can and protest as much as we can though, otherwise we'll be even more fucked. Excuse my language but any other word wouldn't do the matter justice.


------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Kolesar]

4. This smells like a Rovian deflection issue

A "Homelandized" version of "Support the Troops". It is certainly a deflection from the real issue that Congress and the President royally "fouled up" hurricane emergency preparations.

[PassingFair]

24. Freepers don't really CARE about "Posse Comitatus"

Posse ComitatusPosse ComitatusPosse ComitatusPosse ComitatusPosse Comitatus

They just like to repeat it because it sounds dirty.

[sofa king]

30. I hope you are wrong, but....

It occurs to me that this might very well be from the minds of Mr. Rove himself. In fact, that has been a major fear of mine.

If my guess is correct and a there is a traceable pipeline of al Qaeda money going from Jack Abramoff's SunCruz casino boats straight to the Republican party prior to 9/11, Karl is probably thinking hard about how what he wants: the throne, or the electric chair.

This weekend, in particular, made me particularly nervous: Rove was nicely isolated in North Dakota, the President was hiding out at Northcom, while at the same time a simulation of a martial law action (operation "Granite Shadow") was being played out here in Washington, D.C.

Nothing happened, it would appear, so I guess everything is cool for the moment. But it really bothers me that those people--many of whom may be only weeks or months away from criminal indictment--are practicing such things.

[converted_democrat]

5. This is a much bigger issue than people realize.........

If this is allowed to happen, our democracy is finished. Call your politicians, and tell them to leave Posse Comitatus Act alone. This is sooo important.

[2Design]

6. this would be one more step to facist state - thread from yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4895541&mesg_id=4895541

thread about same subject from cnn

[Stand and Fight]

7. Good God... Another step toward fascism.

Most of the people who read this article will come away with NO understanding of its implications. It must have been just about as easy for Hitler to assume his dictator powers.

[grytpype]

9. Just another power grab.

Every time there's a crisis the Bushists use it to grab more power, even though they can't use the power they already have to any good effect.

[JaneGat]

11. The repuke plan: government run state and police forces

In a Fresh Air interview on PBS, Grover Norquist actually spelled out his 50 year plan to gut the government. It was particularly alarming to hear him say that the government would run state and local police forces.

[Gregorian]

12. America- just another military state? I don't think so.

These guys LOVE the military. It's all they have. The ultimate power. A bullet. Fear. Machines of death.

Can we turn this mess around now?

America was never intended to be like this. We created this country on good principals.

edit- yuck. too many one liners. I'm starting to sound like _Bush.

[slay]

14. "Automatic Trigger" = new Republican code word for stripping states rights

People need to fight this BIG TIME. Leave it to the Bush people to turn a disaster into a Republican agenda. :(

[Akoto]

15. Emperor Palpatine is on the march.

[burythehatchet]

23. Amazing how a sci-fi story has become the perfect

metaphor for our current reality.

[UncleSepp]

31. Sci fi has been that way since Verne, IMO

Sci fi and horror stories start out with an implied "Imagine if..." that invites the reader, or the viewer, to open his mind to possibilities of a reality different from the one he knows. They're an ideal vehicle for social and economic commentary, for raising warnings, or for creating hope.

[Whoa_Nelly]

16. With his poll numbers down and confusion in the wake of Katrina & Rita

* is pushing as much of his fascist agenda as possible.
It's his personal way of saying, "Fuck You!"

[kestrel91316]

18. Oh, this is GOOD - so Bush can "politicize" emergencies..................

if they can federalize emergencies and put the feds in control of all response, you get ONE GUESS what sort of emergency response California will get with the next big earthquake; or New York with the next terrorist attack; or San Francisco with the same.

Fascism marches on..............

[ixion]

20. so, repeal Posse Comitatus because of the weather?

gee, that makes sense. NOT! :grr:

[pushycat]

21. bad idea alright, even with a normal president

the one we have is not normal so why take any chance. bush can hardly speak these days, puffy looking and all. who is ready to give him more power to harm us ?

[superconnected]

22. no wonder the feds didn't respond to katrina.

They were setting us up for this.

[donkeyotay]

25. When the Sociopath-in-Chief faked "taking responsibility"

you just knew Rove was going to turn it into a GOPer twofer. Sure you fucked up, but the solution is always to further the agenda. Caligula totally misses the death and destruction and turns around with a straight face and says the only failure was that he didn't have enough power...

"It's very important for us as we look at the lessons of Katrina to think about other scenarios that might require a well-planned, significant federal response..." the little shit who's in charge of defending the Constitution said.

Other scenarios... like nuking Syria or Iran, stealing the 2006 and 2008 elections, pardoning anyone actually charged in any of this administration's crimes, any social unrest caused by ongoing federal disaster... you know, other stuff.



:nuke:

[kath]

41. Or "other stuff", as in letting (or making) another terra attack happen?

[bonito]

26. Remember rove's comment a few days ago

Stating that Cindy was a clown and the only mistake they made with Katrina was that they should have gone in overriding the Governor. We have to be sure this failing administration takes no more power from the people.

[gulfcoastliberal]

27. Automatic Trigger = Enabling Act

And the sheeple wil follow.

[BiggJawn]

28. Even more so than the PATRIOT Act...

That just gave the Spooks free rein to tromp all over us, now he wants to let the Regulars become Brownshirts...

[genieroze]

29. Bush seeks to federalize emergencies (end Posse Comitatus Act)?

There it is, big bro here we come.

[redqueen]

32. There's no need for this. Just appoint someone QUALIFIED to run FEMA.

These idiot repukes are shameless... their lackey bootlickers should try THINKING for once in their pitiful lives.

[regnaD kciN]

34. I figured this was on the way...

I just thought it would take another act of terra, not a natural disaster, for the Bushies to kill Posse Comitatus.

Once the military is allowed to become a domestic police force during emergencies, don't count on them being restricted to emergencies. A heavily-armed force with its own structure and forms of "justice," answerable only to the President, and not subject to local oversight...it sounds more and more like we're becoming Argentina in the mid-'70s. I wonder when the "disappearances" will begin?

:scared:

[Miss Chybil]

36. I always thought Republicans were states' rights people? I guess

not anymore in the Upside-Down States of America.

[nolabels]

54. I always thought all them to be lying, cheating crooks, boy was I wrong

I have noticed as of late, they are much worse than that

Hurricane Katrina was the eleventh named tropical storm, fourth hurricane, third major hurricane, and first Category 5 hurricane of the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season. It first made landfall as a Category 1 hurricane just north of Miami, Florida on August 25, 2005, then again on August 29 along the Central Gulf Coast near New Orleans, Louisiana, as a Category 4 storm. Its storm surge soon breached the levee system that protected New Orleans from Lake Pontchartrain. Most of the city was subsequently flooded by the lake's waters. This and other major damage to the coastal regions of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama made Katrina the most destructive and costliest natural disaster in the history of the United States.

The official death toll now stands at 1,080 and the damage higher than $200 billion, topping Hurricane Andrew as the most expensive natural disaster in U.S. history. Over a million people were displaced — a humanitarian crisis on a scale unseen in the U.S. since the Great Depression
(snip)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

[Nothing Without Hope]

37. *** Please read this SYNTHESIS THREAD for the back story and more info ***

This is a major, major constitutional crisis we're heading into, one the neocons have been preparing for a long time. This thread talks about Bush's comments about more military power, with of course him in sole charge of the military. Please read the FULL THREAD - not only the opening post.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112
Thread title: Missing A KEY POINT in *'s speech: POWER GRAB FOR POTUS AND MILITARY

There are MUST-READ articles linked to in the replies as well. For example:

On the dictatorial powers of the President under FEMA (Reply #31)- this will CURL YOUR HAIR:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790882

The meaning, history and precedents of the Posse Comitatus act: (Reply #16):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790545

The infamous 2001 Yoo Memo, another of those Bush DOJ memos that blatantly ignores the Constitution and all law to say that Bush has dictatorial powers. This one says he has sole control of the US military and sole power to declare war - and folks, he can declare martial law any time he pleases for "civil unrest" and under one of those FEMA executive orders, Congress can't even REVIEW it for SIX MONTHS (reply #23)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790660

THERE IS MUCH MORE, AND MORE WILL BE POSTED. PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD

People, I believe that one of the reasons for the deliberate delay and blockage of aid to the Katrina-hit areas by the feds was to set up what was supposed to be a big contrast between "efficient" federal efforts when they finally arrived vs "incompetent" local/state efforts. This would help with PR to push for what they REALLY want, which is further suspension of the Constitution and concentration of powers in the POTUS. Didn't work -- yet -- in part because the feds are NOT efficient and also because their lies to blame all mistakes on local and state authorities didn't come off all that well either. But THEY WILL NOT GIVE UP - they want Bush to be a dictator with just some flim-flam trappings of democracy to fool the people, and they see this as their chance.

So now Bush says we should have more of what was the WORST of the Katrina response and nothing else. Just think how many more thousands would have died if NO ONE but the feds had had any power after the storm - as it was, hundreds and perhaps thousands have died directly because of their failure to deliver aid and repeated blockage of aid from anyone else, civil or foreign. We're not supposed to check the laws and find that the federal government ALREADY has full power in disasters and it was not invoked for DAYS while the WH and their media mouthpieces LIED about it. Oh, and by the way, yes, he would be a military dictator, but we're not supposed to notice that.

[IndianaGreen]

39. Hail Caesar!

Abolishing Posse Comitatus Act, which has been already undermined by this and previous Presidents, will sweep away the last remnants of the Republic.

[stickdog]

40. FUCK YOU, NEOCON BASTARDS!!!

We know EXACTLY what this is all about.

Bush didn't need Blanco's or Barbour's permission to send a single federal asset to help the victims of Katrina.

This neoCON BULLSHIT concerns one and only one thing: allowing the Pentagon to use fully militarized US troops and privatized mercenaries as DOMESTIC POLICE.

Our Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves so fast that our next disaster will probably be a massive earthquake.

[slamthecrank]

46. true.

Exactly how i see it, too. This is a gesture towards giving power to the military to use their privatized mercenaries as police. And, I stress the word "privatized" - as in, contracted labor.

Always, when this man moves his mouth, follow the money.

[truthisfreedom]

47. this is just more of bushco using the uneducated, untrained, ill-informed

brute-force method of dealing with everything. he constantly installs people in positions where they have non idea what they're doing! this is more of the same! we don't need his stupid shortcut brute-force methods... he's too tired to think anything out. we need a president who can think on his feet and think things through. not a shortcut "i need a holiday and don't bother me" president. he's beyond being a fink... he uses his cronies as corrupt brains to figure out every fucking angle that bushco can use to dump more of the Treasury (it's gone now, btw) into the pockets of his so-called friends.

[pinniped]

50. I know a lot of those * loving gun-nuts don't take too kindly on this...

sort of thing.

I wonder if they are pissed off enough to want their vote back?

[leesa]

52. Wow. They let New Orleans drown so they could get this next bit on the

agenda.

Does ANYONE believe these monsters would have blinked an eye at doing 9-11?

[AzDar]

55. Just what we need: Chimpy with his finger on another "automatic trigger"

NO MORE POWER for these buffoons!!!

[drduffy]

56. as noted above this a well-thought-out

long-range plan to achieve total control here in the USA. Canada and Mexico. There may be no safe place to go except Venezuela and such. The BushCo. acts like a buffoon hotel but the laws taking away our freedoms continue to get passed and the presidential directives erode it further.

And I am very very scared. It is horrible to admit it but I hope peak oil, economic collapse, ruin and devastation occur soon enough to tear down the neocons completely and the corporatist bastards that run them. (after all, the collapse is coming in either case but it would nice if it could halt the corporatists).