WP: Karen Hughes Questions Saudi Ban on Female Driving

[DeepModem Mom]

Karen Hughes Questions Saudi Ban on Female Driving
By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 27, 2005; 5:06 PM


JIDDAH, Saudi Arabia, Sept. 27 -- Undersecretary of State Karen Hughes questioned the Saudi ban on female driving Tuesday, telling a crowd of several hundred Saudi women, draped head to toe in black, that the ban had negatively shaped the image of Saudi society in the United States.

"We in America take our freedoms very seriously," Hughes said. "I believe women should be free and equal participants in society. I feel that as an American woman that my ability to drive is an important part of my freedom."

Hughes hastened to add that Saudi society must change at its own pace and according to its own traditions, but she went significantly further in her statement than Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on a trip to the kingdom three months ago. Rice pressed for greater political freedoms for women, but at the time dismissed the subject of driving as "just a line that I have not wanted to cross."

Hughes, newly anointed as the administration's "public diplomacy" czar, is on a weeklong tour of the Middle East to improve the U.S. image, but the tables were turned Tuesday in a series of meetings with Saudi students, journalists and officials.

Many people who spoke with Hughes focused on the poor image of Saudi Arabia in the United States, complaining especially about media coverage that they said portrayed Saudi men as terrorists and Saudi women as abused and unhappy. Hughes raised the subject in response to such a question during a meeting at the private college of Dar al-Hekma....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/27/AR2005092701311.html

[Turbineguy]

1. I thought she went over there

to listen.

[rodeodance]

5. telling people what to do or not to do is her version of listening. she

taught that to Jr also.

[Eric J in MN]

2. I'll give her credit.

I don't like Karen Hughes, but she seemed to have said the right thing in this case.

[rodeodance]

6. yeah--she is trying to improve OUR image of SA. the reverse of what

she is hired to do.

[Eric J in MN]

8. Those comments may improve the US image with the female

half of the Saudi population.

[ElectroPrincess]

31. The "FeeMale Population" as well as "The Women" of SA

are fully indoctrinated. The few rebels there are ... how shall i put it? Scared DOMESTIC out of their f**king minds!?!

That old plow horse of a woman is doing nothing but make our beloved country look even more insane, i.e., if that is possible.

Horse-woman says, "You A - rabs best let us women drive the cars, or else! "Omar! Let me drive this instant?!?"

How Karen Hughes must APPEAR to the Arab Populations:



I say we put "a straw hat" on old "Daisey Mae Hughes." Then we can ask Brownie to put her (and himself) out to pasture? <eg>

[amber dog democrat]

11. Pig in a minefield

sometimes they get " lucky" .

[onecent]

14. I wouldn't give her credit for taking a stinking shit. n/t

[meow2u3]

33. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day

Karen Hughes does something right for a change

[saigon68]

54. She can also educate them on Human rights etc.

[rosesaylavee]

3. Karen - always the diplomat. That's our girl -

winning friends and influencing terrorists wherever she goes.

Wonder when she will realize that women have ZERO power there. It ain't just the driving of cars. Probably when their husbands step in and ask her to leave the country.

[PsychoDad]

23. No, they won't.

It's all part of the script designed to make bush look like his regime cares about women's rights. (BTW, women in the US still make less on the whole than their male counterparts, perhaps Ms. Hughes should preach the equality line to the corporate masters of the american government.)

The Saudi royals will laugh all the way to the bank with Karen, another archaeological and historic site in Mecca or Medina will be leveled for another KFC or Mc Donald's to take it's place and the princes will see Karen off with the smug knowledge that no matter how subservient their women are to them, the american people are even moreso.

A subservience reinforced with each fix from a gas nozzle for a SUV.

[freethought]

35. Hey ! She's off to a great start! (sarcasm, drip, drip)n/t

[tanyev]

4. Blasphemy!

I hope the extreme religious fundamentalists over there don't behead her.

[rooboy]

7. Why are you hoping that they DON'T behead her? :) n/t

[tanyev]

12. I didn't want a free vacation trip to Gitmo.

;)

[savemefromdumbya]

9. Is that why Bush let the Saudis off with sex slave trade?

Perhaps Karen will suggest that the Saudi ladies partake in the following:

WASHINGTON - President Bush decided Wednesday to waive any financial sanctions on Saudi Arabia, Washington's closest Arab ally in the war on terrorism, for failing to do enough to stop the modern-day slave trade in prostitutes, child sex workers and forced laborers.

In June, the State Department listed 14 countries as failing to adequately address trafficking problems, subjecting them all to possible sanctions if they did not crack down.

Of those 14, Bush concluded that Bolivia, Jamaica, Qatar, Sudan, Togo and the United Arab Emirates had made enough improvements to avoid any cut in U.S. aid or, in the case of countries that get no American financial assistance, the barring of their officials from cultural and educational events, said Darla Jordan, a State Department spokeswoman.

Cambodia and Venezuela were not considered to have made similar adequate improvements. But Bush cleared them nonetheless to receive limited assistance, for such things as combatting trafficking. In the case of Venezuela — which has had a tense relationship with the United States under the leadership of President Hugo Chavez, one of Latin America's most outspoken critics of U.S. foreign policy — Bush also allowed funding for strengthening the political party system and supporting electoral observation.

In addition to Saudi Arabia, Ecuador and Kuwait — another U.S. ally in the Middle East — were given a complete pass on any sanctions, Jordan said. Despite periodic differences, oil-rich Saudi Arabia and the United States have a tight alliance built on economic and military cooperation.

That left Myanmar, Cuba and North Korea as the only nations in the list of 14 barred completely from receiving certain kinds of foreign aid. The act does not include cutting off trade assistance or humanitarian aid, Jordan said.

The White House statement offered no explanation of why countries were regarded differently. Jordan also could not provide one.

As many as 800,000 people are bought and sold across national borders annually or lured to other countries with false promises of work or other benefits, according to the State Department. Most are women and children.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_human_trafficking

[moobu2]

10. Karen Hughes is a public relations professional

And has a huge American press entourage traveling with her. She knows whatever she say’s will make news here.

It’s all well planed PR and doesnt realy mean anything.

[Roland99]

13. "You all are teh sux0rz! U.S. will pwn j00!"

Nice diplomacy.


:eyes:

[0007]

15. Women have been voting for less than a hundred years in this

country and don't have equal rights as far as pay is concerned, among other things. And Karen is lecturing?

[GOPAgainstGW]

16. KH is Just Another BushCo Nazi! - eom

[RamboLiberal]

17. Flame Away - but I say good for her

I think the way fundamentalist Islam treats women should've be protested the same way by the world community as we protested against apartheid in South Africa. I hate when we tiptoe around these things.

Now too bad she doesn't smack her boss upside the head for his dismissing the Saudis on many issues.

And btw I've loathed Karen Hughes since the selection debacle of 2000.

[sonicx]

18. Of she's right, the issue is that...

Bush isn't doing anything about it (oil).

[GOPAgainstGW]

21. That Part of the World has been Screwed Up Since Before Christ...

arrived. Do we really expect to change it. I mean I concur, it's total sick how women are treated in that part of the world, but Islam is the second largest religion in the world with over 1.8 billion followers.

This Christian vs Islam led US Holy War has got to stop. It feeds right into the Islamic Terrorists hands.

[rosesaylavee]

22. Let's not confuse fundamentalist Islam with

mainstream Islam. They are as dissimilar as fundie Christianity and Lutheranism.

>edited for spelling<

[GOPAgainstGW]

25. Exactly, Good Point - eom

[Ben Ceremos]

43. That Part of the World has been Screwed Up Since Before Christ...

I love the sense of superiority that you provide with your opening line. May I suggest that you drop the chauvinist attitude before discussing a culture you seem to know very little about? Cultural racism is what such a statement amounts to. Furthermore, "that part of the world" would be experiencing considerably less turmoil if the "Western Powers" could just keep out of the region. If it were not for the oil reserves most "Westerners" would not care about what happens in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, etc. Most likely the indigenous populations would be living within a very "acceptable" set of social norms, laws and customs. If you would bother to read some history of say the Caliphate period in ancient Arabia, you would be surprised to discover that while Europeans were digging for rotting tubers and bugs, Arabic people were living in the finest and most civilized of circumstances. In medieval "Spain", it was the Arabs that developed agriculture, irrigation systems and well organized social systems.
It is no wonder that Bush is so ignorant of the conditions in the Middle East; seemingly much of America is depressingly uninformed about a population and region that you are waging merciless war against.
I'm so glad I moved away, otherwise my brain would have melted...Do better, educate yourself before shooting off your mouth. And one more thing, Christ is a myth, not a real person!

[Bridget Burke]

46. When Europe was in the Dark Ages...

The Muslim world was in full cultural flower.

Bush was a History Major at Yale. How odd that a University of Houston dropout can become better informed just by reading on her own.

[Dorian Gray]

44. Well,

in other Islamic countries (Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey), the women have many more rights than they do in Saudi Arabia. You may point to the Koran as the reason that the women are not afforded any rights, but that's not the case.

I agree with Hughes on this case alone, and I don't care if she needs to bring a PR gaggle over there with her to say it. It's something that NEEDS to be addressed.

The same was true of the Taliban and their treatment of women.

I will accept all voices that actually address the situation. I hope MORE is done about it.

[saigon68]

56. THE CHIMPANZEE LOVES IT

HE AND THE REST OF THE BUSH CRIMINALS ARE MAKING A FORTUNE FROM THIS WAR

[ElectroPrincess]

32. Oh Rambo my boy

She's part of the scam. The boys of the royal family are calm because of the "wink winking" you know? Read the in between? She said they must move "at their own pace" TRANSLATION do whatever you wish. However, we need to make those old broads in the USA feel better that we actually give a damn about women's rights ... let this old battle-axe um ... Karen Hughes have her little gathering? We always let you jack up the price of crude oil, and we always will. ;) :puke:

[rodeodance]

37. they prob. need to make a move to show interest.

...... She said they must move "at their own pace" TRANSLATION do whatever you wish.

[Kailassa]

42. what, Karen pussyfoot?

Of course it should be, Karen is not getting support here because she is NOT doing anything about it. She's using diplomat language, a different meaning coming out of each side of her mouth at once. She is giving the green light to the Saudis to continue discrimination while letting Americans think she is giving the Saudis what for.

[VegasWolf]

19. Hey, we all know that women can't drive!!!

:pals:

[JanusAscending]

20. WATCH IT !!

;-)

[Bridget Burke]

47. They need to navigate since men don't ask for directions!

Just continuing in the same vein.

[genieroze]

51. Then why do we have lower insurance rates?

[MountainLaurel]

53. We do less stupid shit n/t

After all, how many women do you find on the Darwin Awards list, particularly for events that follow the phrase "Bet you can't . . . "?

:evilgrin:

[Domitan]

24. Just because her message is "right"

doesn't mean that she's going about this the right way (e.g., where's the protest against sex slavery) or the smart way (e.g., I'd be damned if Saudi Arabia will hang its head in shame and then repent for its misogyny because they hypocritical Karen Hughes said so). Remember John Bolton's comment on North Korea...calling it a very sick country and more. Bolton's description may have been accurate but he's undermined by his own hypocrisy and his destructive antidiplomacy.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. What she means is the Saudis are making her boss look bad

She could give a shit about the freedoms of Saudi women except to the degree that their draconian policies make her boss look like he cozies up to extremists of the wrong sort.

[librechik]

27. yes indeed--Hulk there to smash heads

not nuance us into the hearts of the A-rabs.

I can't imagine a more wrong-headed appointment.

Oh, wait yes I can. Everybody else in the Shrub administration

[Betsy Ross]

28. A couple of comments

I don't think I could drive with a veil over my head. Limits peripheral vision. sort of sarcasm.

And, do you really think women's right to vote is the most important thing we should be encouraging in SA? Even for women, there are more important issues.

[Whoa_Nelly]

29. This is not improving things diplomatically

To compare western culture with Islamic culture is not being diplomatic. This approach comes across as didactic. To push the concept that Islamic women should revolt, (and yes, that is what the inference of making a move to change is through Hughes' pedagogical instruction), in order to be more on a par with their western sisters is demeaning to these women in the sense that it is debasing their religion and disrespectful to their families.

I completely agree that women everywhere should have equal rights to those of men. I am humanistic regarding this ideal. The sad fact is women in the US do not hold equal rights in the areas of equal pay, job opportunities, and the still perpetuated role that the woman is to be the nurturer and is shamed if not sacrificing herself to that expected role. This can easily be seen on TV commercials on US TV everyday....woman is the hero for fixing dinner, doing laundry, picking up kids from school, tucking little ones in at night, and more. That stereotypical role gets played over and over again, day after day. And women in this country are also consistently held to a physical standard that is unrealistic. Hell, women in other western nations fare far better then women in the US. So, Hughes is lying and moralizing when she attempts to paint a rosy picture of life would be batter through her "if only you were more like us" type of speaking.

The approach Hughes used in making driving the issue for comparison is simplistic and insubstantial. When we, as women in the US, are still having to fight for our bodies to not fall under governmental dictates, how can Hughes' "diplomacy" tactics possibly be viewed as positive?

Karen Hughes is a willing tool.

[Mike_The_Computer]

30. Gay man questions Hughes/Bush/Rightie ban on gay marriage.

Really, these rightie fuckwits need to clean up their own bigoted sideshows before taking it on the road.

[CitrusLib]

48. Bingo!

Additionally, an Administration that cuts healthcare funding to third world countries because it might be used for contraception and totally destroyed woman's rights in the most socially progressive Middle Eastern country with a pre-emptive war carries ZERO weight when it comes to speaking on women's issues.

[DemInDistress]

34. Is this "Public Diplomacy Czar" a volunteer job

or is she getting a hefty paycheck? If she getting paid I say can her.
Karen Hughes is a GOP whore with no credibility whatsoever....

[Cocoa]

36. does Laura Bush have any thoughts on this issue?

Karen and Condi have spoken, where does Pickles stand?

[Betty]

38. Too bad there was no ban in effect

here when she ran over her boyfriend

[GOPAgainstGW]

40. She's To Busy Dealing With Hurr Carina, LOL!

[MADem]

39. Wasn't the chimp supposed to jawbone the Saudis to open the spigots

FOR US??? With heating season on the way????

Great, now, if they pump more oil, it'll all go to fuel up their SUVs!!!

How tone deaf is all this? People are homeless, the dead have not been counted, two hurricanes, rampant cronyism and incompetence, our country is having a fuel crisis, and THIS is her issue de jour?

I agree that the Saudi attitude towards women is abhorrent, but is now the time to get people riled up about a situation that they have had YEARS to address...when we are gonna need to do some jawboning to make it through the winter????

If we have a cold winter this year, things are gonna get interesting...

[Kailassa]

41. How long before Laura has had enough and runs down Scrub?

Of course the Saudis are not going to let women drive and give them any rights. Saddam made the mistake ok doing that, and look what happened to him. Iraq's new constitution makes the laws passed subservient to sharia law, so women's freedom has gone down the gurgler there. Not that the neocons are likely to mourn any loss in women's rights. All they want women for is breeders and housekeepers. I wonder though, if all the men were neocons, just who would we breed with?

[bushisanidiot]

45. Uh, oh.. AWOL won't be able to play kissy-face w/the saudi prince

if she keeps running her trap..

will AWOL Bush & Cheney reel her in?

[bluedog]

49. Saudi Women Have Message for U.S. Envoy: STFU Hughes

********** same group of people .notice how this story changes from washngton post compared to NY Times


Saudi Women Have Message for U.S. Envoy

*

By STEVEN R. WEISMAN
Published: September 28, 2005

JIDDA, Saudi Arabia, Sept. 27 - The audience - 500 women covered in black at a Saudi university

snip


But the response on Tuesday was not what she and her aides expected. When Ms. Hughes expressed the hope here that Saudi women would be able to drive and "fully participate in society" much as they do in her country, many challenged her.

"The general image of the Arab woman is that she isn't happy," one audience member said. "Well, we're all pretty happy." The room, full of students, faculty members and some professionals, resounded with applause.


snip


Many in this region say they resent the American assumption that, given the chance, everyone would live like Americans.

snip

(Hughes) She seemed clearly taken aback as the women told her that just because they were not allowed to vote or drive that did not mean they were treated unfairly or imprisoned in their own homes.

"We're not in any way barred from talking to the other sex," said Dr. Nada Jambi, a public health professor. "It's not an absolute wall."


snip






But it was the meeting with the women that was the most unpredictable, as Ms. Hughes found herself on the defensive simply by saying that she hoped women would be able to vote in future elections.

snip


A woman in the audience then charged that under President Bush the United States had become "a right-wing country" and that criticism by the press was "not allowed."

"I have to say I sometimes wish that were the case, but it's not," Ms. Hughes said with a laugh.

snip


"I don't want to drive a car," she said. "I worked hard for my medical degree. Why do I need a driver's license?"
more

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/28/international/middleeast/28hughes.html?hp&ex=1127966400&en=1dfdb4ea08995e8c&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[yellowcanine]

50. Another political hack in over her head. I resent that my tax dollors are

used to pay political hacks to go overseas and further damage the image of the United States with half-baked pronouncements about other cultures. Of course Saudi women are oppressed. But having Karen effin Hughes say it is not going to win us any friends in the Arab world. One could point out the hypocrisy of Hughes lecturing the Saudis on treatment of women when the United States has such a high rate of abuse and violence against women and refused to pass an equal rights amendment with much of the debate devoted to such gripping issues as the possibility of unisex bathrooms (which is the last thing most women want by the way).

[genieroze]

52. More important then voting, getting educated and working women need

to drive so they can be OIL consumers as well. Isn't this the bottom line in everything this misadministration does? OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL,OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL,

[AlGore-08.com]

55. Am I the only one who read that and wondered "Is it for Smirk's donors?"

When I think of the various barriers in the way of women around the globe, "being prevented from driving", while important, is kinda far down the list, after lots of stuff like honor killings, genital mutilation, being forbidden education, not being allowed to vote, stuff like that.

I read that article and I just went :wtf:

Are they trying to open up a vast, untapped market for the petroleum industry? Or is this just another "let them eat cake" moment, where their wealth and privilege isolates them so much from reality that even their best impulses don't make any f*cking sense?

[Nikia]

57. I think that driving and voting are good issues to raise

For a couple of reasons. Women drive and vote in most other Islamic countries. I don't believe that there are any Koran verses that suggest that women should not do them either. The activities would not necessarily be at odds with their greater culture or religion.
Voting is important because political power is important. I think that is a generally agreed upon value to Americans. Groups that are denied the right to vote will forever have their interests disregarded.
The right to drive is also important because it enables mobility. There are reasons that a woman might need to drive if she doesn't have a man around. To complicate things, she cannot just have any male drive her either, even in an emergency. She needs to be able to drive herself.
I think that this is a good place to start and isn't suggesting that they completely overthrow their culture.