Victory in Florida Feeding Case Emboldens the Religious Right

[kskiska]

PINELLAS PARK, Fla., Oct. 23 — Religious conservatives say that with an arsenal of prayer vigils, Christian radio broadcasts and thousands of e-mail messages to Florida lawmakers, they played a pivotal role in the legislative battle this week over whether to feed a brain-damaged woman who has been kept alive artificially for 13 years.

Now some conservatives are hoping to use similar tactics to help them challenge court rulings they opposed in other states.

Randall Terry, founder of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue, said he and other conservatives intended to use what they consider a stunning victory here to pressure lawmakers elsewhere to chip away at court rulings allowing abortion and banning organized prayer in schools and the posting of the Ten Commandments in public schools, among other issues.

"Finally, a governor and legislature had the courage to stand up to judicial despots because of an overwhelming call by the public," Mr. Terry said.

(snip)

The religious right was out in force in the days leading up to the vote: outside the hospice here where Terri Schiavo lay dying, pickets from around Florida and the nation waved signs quoting biblical verse and accusing Mr. Bush of murder. On Christian radio, talk show hosts implored listeners to hold Mr. Bush and state legislators responsible if Mrs. Schiavo did not survive. And thousands of e-mail messages opposing her death on religious grounds jammed those lawmakers' computers, warning that they would be sorry if they did not stop the court-ordered removal of Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube.

more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/24/national/24FLOR.html?hp

[La_Serpiente]

1. Oh geez

Personally, I have never really though of the right as being "grass roots". However, knowing that Bush could be upset by the grassroots next year, they are pulling all the tricks. This is their way of shaking up the base.

After the 2000 election, Karl Rove set up a study as to why Al Gore got the popular vote. He found out that in the last, final days of the election, there was a large grass roots push by the Democrats. That is what enabled Gore to win it.

Seeing that the left is already mobilized and setting up huge grass roots organizations (meetup, People for the American Way, etc.) he is doing everything to shake up the right's grassroots.

[Supply Side Jesus]

2. thank the gods for judicial review.

and may the gods smite that law down. :argh:

[Hieronymus]

3. Oh my!

Is it possible that Jeb didn't make the move to feed Ms Schiavo out of concern for her life?:wow:

[J B]

6. Under these circumstances...

Perhaps he was more concerned for HIS life.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

4. Witness the dialectic working

Religious conservatism has its way.

Fighting wars corrupts and subsumes the victor as much as the loser.

America falls to the religious right. The islamic right wins.

[booley]

5. great

now brain dead people all over the nation can continue to exist in a hellish vegetative state no matter what thier wishes when alive.

God would be proud...

[jab105]

7. Polls on our local news say that 59% don't approve of Jeb stepping in...

and 35% approve (rest, I assume have no opinion)...

[CO Liberal]

22. The Rest Are On Life Support

Sorry - couldn't help it......

[DemBones DemBones]

8. It's tragic that saving someone's life is seen as a "right wing"

action. It's tragic that people who oppose the killing done in Iraq and/or oppose the death penalty, most of whom are politically progressive, weren't out there protesting the attempt to kill Terri Schiavo. It's tragic that so many DUers, who are presumably left of center, think that Terri Schiavo should have been starved to death. We should support the disabled against those who would sentence them to death, even if it makes us uncomfortable to agree with Randall Terry on this issue. We wouldn't have supported the war on Iraq if Randall Terry had come out against it, would we?

If we as a society begin to kill our severely disabled members, it won't take long before someone starts advocating killing the moderately disabled or anyone else (perhaps the long-term unemployed?) who's "a drain on the economy."

I support living wills and advance directives and I see no reason to keep someone who is "brain dead" alive. If a terminally ill person wants to refuse treatment or discontinue treatment, I think that's their business and no one should intervene. However, I oppose anyone deciding *for* another person that s/he should die so long as that person still has brain function.

As for Terri's quality of life, certainly it seems poor to us but she may be quite contented. We were all contented once to have all our physical needs attended to by our parents. We now fear being completely disabled and dependent on others because we see that as degrading but our seeing it as degrading doesn't make it so.

Terri may also have more brain activity than her outward appearance would suggest. There is an interesting article from a recent NY Times Magazine about physicians researching the brain activity of people in persistent vegetative states. They've found that some of them have quite normal brain activity, as measured by MRI, and, after learning that, have managed some actual communication with these patients. The article is really worth reading.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/28/magazine/28VEGETAT.html?ex=1066968000&en=b70d11f190ea81c6&ei=5070

P.S. I don't like the legislature and governor overstepping a judge's authority. BUT, the higher courts wouldn't agree to hear the case on appeal and the judge had refused to consider the parents' request that a guardian ad litem be appointed for Terri, rather than allowing her husband to continue to act as her guardian. Florida, and all fifty states, need better laws to cover such situations.

[sandnsea]

10. A judge considered this

Most likely a whole bunch of judges. You say you support advance directives on keeping someone who is brain dead alive. Her husband, brother and sister-in-law testified to her wishes that she not be kept alive like this. 5 doctors testified as to her physical state. Her husband received something like $600,000 years ago. Why didn't he just divorce her and walk away? I can only imagine it's because he sincerely believes she would not want this. A Catholic priest testified as to the religious aspect of this decision. There is simply NO reason to intervene and keep this woman alive. The purpose of medical treatment is to cure, not to intervene in God's will and the natural process of death.

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

18. You obviously don't know the facts

She is in a persistently vegetative state, for 13 years. There is
not one instance of a person recovering from a similar condition.
CatScans of her brain show it has shrunk by over 1/3. The only
functions remaining are those that control reflexes, breathing,
and heartbeat. Show me the dignity in allowing this to continue.

[soup]

9. 4 million votes

TALLAHASSEE - By injecting themselves into the life-or-death drama of Terri Schiavo, a brain-damaged woman whose fate has become a cause celebre for the nation's Christian conservative movement, Gov. Jeb Bush and the Republican-led Legislature are reflecting the wishes of a constituency that could be critical to GOP success in next year's elections.

Although several moderate Republican lawmakers voted Tuesday against allowing Bush to overrule the court order that removed Schiavo's feeding tube, the governor's actions on such a high-profile case could energize the very evangelicals who stayed home in 2000 when Bush's brother, now the president, lost the national popular vote and narrowly won Florida.

''While they may not have any alternative that they'll want to vote for, what they can do is stay home,'' said Ken Connor, former leader of the conservative Family Research Council. ``But by the Legislature and the governor acting in a decisive way, that will galvanize the base of the Republican Party because most of that base is pro-life.''

COVETED VOTING BLOC

The Schiavo vote Tuesday unfolded with leaders from the Christian Coalition, the Florida Catholic Conference, Operation Rescue and other religious groups -- groups that bind together a voting bloc that President Bush's senior political advisor, Karl Rove, has pledged to court next year -- watching from the public galleries.

Rove lamented in a 2001 speech that 4 million evangelicals failed to vote, suggesting that their absence from the polls was largely to blame for the narrow outcome.
full article:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/7074643.htm

4 million votes

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. What a mistake to exaggerate this as a win.

Most people would want to die with dignity and Jeb Bush has taken that right away. In Florida, I don't think the seniors are going to like what he did, and will reflect it in the polls.

But more importantly, the right-wingers are doing precisely what I expected them to do. Ever since Tom Feeney threatened to use the Florida House of Representatives to override the results of an election, it's been apparent that the conservatives will stop at nothing in order to get their way. If the Federalist Society has failed to monopolize the judiciary, then by legislative power; and if not by legislative power, than by executive decisions. They have an agenda which can only be achieved by undemocratic and unAmerican methods.

[Suspicious]

12. Disappointing.

I'm disappointed to see "progressives" exhibiting the very behavior they criticize in people on the right. I think many are overlooking the larger picture here and disagreeing with the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, and Jeb Bush's role in the same, out of nothing more than a general dislike of the right. To me, this has nothing to do with the right or the left.

We can't know what Terri Schiavo wants, unfortunately; however, the feeding tube has been in place for some time. To remove it means one thing - she will slowly starve to death. I can't comprehend the fact that anyone would advocate such a thing as being somehow more acceptable and humane than allowing her to live and be comforted and cared for.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. "Comfortable?"

How can you be so sure that she's comfortable? People who have been ill for an extended period of time know that there are worse things than death. Terminal patients sometimes have the most serene outlooks because they have come to terms with their own mortality. Being in a bed with feedings tubes & other unpleasantries can be termed many things, but not "comfortable."

Frankly, this was a political manuevering by the Bush administration in preparation for the 2004 election. This was not about Terri. This was about activating an election base of 2 million voters that did not show up at the 2000 elections.

[Suspicious]

16. First,

I didn't use the word "comfortable" - the word I used was "comforted". Two different words with very different meanings.

With respect to the second part of your post - this is precisely what I was referring to when I stated that I thought some people were ignoring the larger picture in favor of turning this into a right/left battle. I have no doubt in my mind that Jeb Bush's motives were far less than pure when he stepped into the matter. My concern is for Terri Schiavo, and all of the other patients out there who sustain lives that someone else may presume to determine to be of lesser quality, not for the motivations of a pandering, two-bit politician.

It's the end result I'm looking at, and the ultimate value of a human life.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. My apologies on the word confusion.

However, the point still stands. How can we know she IS comfortable? If your argument is that she can't feel, so it's a moot point, well then, she can't be comforted either. That's a moot point as well.

What you're really doing is extending life that God would have otherwise called home. The ones who benefit from this are the parents who should be made to pick up the doctor bills. In that case, I'd be all for it.

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

19. This woman feels nothing.

Removing the feeding tube will not cause her pain because she
does not feel period. She is not in pain or comfort, she is in
a persistent vegetative state, with no hope of recovery.

[Suspicious]

21. PVS

or "persistent vegetative state" is a necessary declaration in order to dehydrate a patient. The claim of PVS in Terri Schiavo's case has been widely disputed in affidavits filed by both neurologists, and nurses who have worked with her.

Your statements have absolutely no credibility, especially your declaration, "This woman feels nothing." Even a neurologist will concede that there are no tests to confirm the existence of a person's inner awareness, or lack thereof.

[GinaMaria]

26. Oh yes let's shame the progressives

on this topic again. This was a power grab by bush nothing else. That's what this thread is about. Nice that you feel compelled to insult and label the "left" (what ever that may mean) and cry politics when that is what bush is doing. That's the topic in this thread. And that is also what people have been saying from the start of this. It's a bush power grab designed to undermine the courts and overstep his bounds in all sorts of private and personal issues where he doesn't belong.

We are all free to believe what we will about this case, but resorting to 'shaming' and political baiting diminishes the legitiamacy of your views. Save the hand wringing disappointment of "progressives". Where's your outrage at government invasion into private citizen's lives?

[Suspicious]

27. Shaming and political baiting?

I think you're reading quite a bit into my words. I said I was disappointed (in the politicizing of this situation) - I sincerely doubt that my disappointment will shame anyone.

My disappointment comes from the fact that, in my opinion, some people seem to be taking a stance against the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube in what appears to be a backlash against the right's attempt to turn this into some type of victory relating to their views on abortion. Doing so only serves to make their ridiculous assertions appear legitimate in their own eyes. Terri Schiavo is not a fetus.

That's the topic in this thread. And that is also what people have been saying from the start of this. It's a bush power grab designed to undermine the courts and overstep his bounds in all sorts of private and personal issues where he doesn't belong.

Now that I've been properly reminded (twice) as to the topic of this thread - it's clear that you're very angry about the "Bush power grab". You're worried about the government's invasion into a citizen's life. What about the court's invasion into her life, at the behest of her husband? I'm concerned about Terri Schiavo and other people with severe disabilities. What makes me angry, and what worries me, is the precedent set when a judge orders the dehydration, and subsequent prolonged death, of a human being who has no signed health care power of attorney and is unable to convey her wishes. The claims of doctors that she is in a persistent vegetative state are emphatically disputed by other reputable neurologists. The only FACT I can ascertain is that every supposed "fact" in this case is subjective. That's just not good enough for me - not when you're making a determination as to whether someone lives or dies.

[dusty64]

14. Since when did the American Taliban

give a shit for anyone once they've left the womb. This is about ONE thing and ONE thing only, CONTROL. Control of our bodies, control of our minds, and control of the most private intimate parts of our lives.

[Malva Zebrina]

15. Randall Terry

is an ego driven nutcase. He abandoned his ill wife, who is stricken with Multiple Sclerosis, and was booted out of his church for his adulterous ways and for his hypocrisy. He has since married the "younger woman" Those who claim to be right to lifers, must believe and in this case, demand, that this cruelty be continued to this human body, which I see really as a torture, to be consistent in their beliefs--and that tells me something about the mind set of these people.

The reason perhaps, that they do not or did not protest in the streets as it is assumed they are progressive and protested in the streets against the war, is probably because they are not progressive but conservatives and see no inconsistency in killing babies and children , old men and women in an unjust war and are Bush supporters. Up until now, I paid little attention to this case--it seems to me a waste of time to get caught up in it and there are so many more important things. The next grass roots campaign should be to get all people to sign a living will if they do not wish their body to be subjected to torture for tens of years or their family be subjected to torture if they are subjected to the agony of a daily reminder that their loved one is never to be a functioning human being again. But then, signing a living will , is just as inconsistent if one has a belief in the "right to the life" no matter it be a headless fetus, or a body not functioning and not cognizant of itself as a living being.

[bleedingheart]

17. Its always so easy to be an outsider making decisions

hopefully they won't have to ever be placed in this situation.

[Betty]

20. probably the most poetic justice

would be for some of these right to"life" people to end up living for years in a vegetative state. hooked up to machines, being held back from their eternal reward.

[Zolok]

23. The Florida Lege took time out to pass

a kind of medical "bill of attainder" retroactively sentencing this poor woman to life imprisonment in a nursing home with an inactive brain.
I feel bad for all parties concerned but...the law sez the husband has primacy here and the law is being flouted in order to increase Jeb Bush's power over life and death.

My views of the matter can be found at:
www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com

[GinaMaria]

25. We knew this was coming

this was a bush power grab, not about mercy toward this woman. the bushies used this situation for political gain. It's sickening.

[toopers]

28. Let's be realistic about this issue.

The the bill passed both the Florida house and Senate easily. For this to occur there had to be support from both sides. This is no more a power grab by Jeb than it is by any other Democrats. The moral of this story is not to leave one's wishes open to the interpretations of others. Get a living will and give copies to several people.

[Suspicious]

29. I fully agree.

I work in probate and estate planning, and there is a specific clause in a health care POA regarding an advocate's powers - "To consent, refuse or withdraw consent to...nutritional support and hydration...".

Had Michael Schiavo been able to produce such a document, showing himself to be the designated patient advocate and confirming that his wife would not want a feeding tube inserted, I would be the first one to say the feeding tube should be removed, despite my feeling that this would be a less than desirable way to die. Without this, his contention that her wish would be to have the tube removed is nothing more than hearsay.