Million Dollar Refugee Ships Lying Half Empty

[buzzsaw_23]

Million-dollar refugee ships lying half empty
By Dan Glaister in Los Angeles
September 30, 2005

They are the biggest, most expensive refugee boats, hired by the US Government to house the victims of Hurricane Katrina at a cost of a quarter of a billion dollars.

But the three cruise liners are lying more than half empty and critics say they are evidence of the Government's mismanagement of the disaster and lack of preparation. The Federal Emergency Management Agency agreed to pay $US236 million ($310 million) to hire the three ships for six months. However, Senate critics say it would have cost half that much to send the hurricane survivors on a Caribbean cruise.

The ships have a capacity of 7116 beds, at a cost of $US1275 a person a week. The cost of a Caribbean cruise from Texas is $US559 a week. "When the Federal Government would actually save millions of dollars by … sending evacuees on a luxurious six-month cruise it is time to rethink how we are conducting oversight," said Senators Tom Coburn and Barack Obama.

However, the head of contracts at Sealift Command, which is part of the agency, defended the deal. "They were the market," said Captain Joe Manna. "Under the circumstances, I'd say we're getting a pretty good value." The deal attracted further criticism when it emerged that the ships' Miami-based owner, Carnival, is registered in Panama and is exempt from most US taxes. The firm had also sought assurances from the agency that the relief contract would be tax-exempt.

http://smh.com.au/news/world/milliondollar-refugee-ships-lying-half-empty/2005/09/29/1127804608638.html

[Miss Chybil]

1. It's probably because we don't have any "refugees ."

Besides that, this is just another example of the incompetence that will be the undoing of our great nation.

[LostinVA]

16. Thank you -- I hate that word being used for US citizens

They are evacuees, or even displaced persons....

[localroger]

35. Sorry, speaking as one of those people

I was a refugee in the most exact sense -- seeking refuge as I ran for my life from something that was likely to kill me.

I totally fail to understand what people find objectionable about this word. It is a truthful description. Of course the truth it describes was pretty miserable (and still is for those who are still trapped in their places of refuge, unable to go home). But there you are.

[OneBlueSky]

2. I understand the ships are housing rescue workers . . .

which is all well and good . . . but if they're half empty, you'd think they could also house a whole lot of the New Orleans folks who lost their homes and have been scattered from California to the New York island . . .

but we wouldn't want "those people" living on our luxury liners, now would we? . . .

I mean, they'd probably live like pigs and trash their staterooms or something . . . and they most likely smell bad . . .

don'tcha think? . . .

:sarcasm:

[Centered]

26. if you lost everything in a flood

would you want to live on a ship for 6 months? I seriously doubt the reason the ships are half empty (or is that half full) is due to lack of humanity on the part of the crews and officers.

[leftchick]

3. Senators Seek Explainer Cruise Ship Deal

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050930/ap_on_go_co/katrina_cruise_ships_2

WASHINGTON - Two senators on Thursday asked federal officials to explain their decision to sign a $236 million deal with Carnival Cruise Lines for Hurricane Katrina housing, saying Greece was ready to provide two ships for free.

In a letter, Sens. Tom Coburn, R-Okl., and Barack Obama, D-Ill., asked Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff to explain why Federal Emergency Management Agency officials chose Carnival and turned down the Greek offer.

The six-month deal with Carnival for three full-service cruise ships — which now sit mostly empty in the Gulf Coast — has been criticized by lawmakers of both parties as a prime example of wasted spending in Hurricane Katrina cntracts.

<snip>

"Even if the Carnival contract were a good one — and it almost certainly is not — it is inexplicable why FEMA would fail to implement the Greek governments offer of free cruise ships," the senators wrote.

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. Raises hand, I know why!

I can certainly understand why FEMA would hesitate to accept a free ship from Greece. First, because it involved a foreign country, I imagine that there would be bureacracy involved in clearing it with the feds. For one thing, we would want to make sure that Greece understood that their gift was a gift, and not a favor that needed to be repaid through votes in the Congress. That would require diplomacy and time to confirm.

So, expediency may have been a concern. Considering how long it took one of those Navy ships to get to NOLA, I imagine that where the ship was located when it was offered might have been another factor.

[Lerkfish]

8. actually, I think my answer is the right one. :)

your answer is a good one, but it presumes a lack of graft and corruption.
With mine, the foregone conclusiont is made that graft and corruption are already built into any deal made with this administration.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. Nothing is free.

But, a tit for tat, payment in kind, you scratch my back, I'll scratch your back arrangement would probably occur in the backroom or under the table or whatever.

[PATRICK]

15. Occam's Razor

It can't get easier. The only reason people veer off and look for other reasons than simple graft is that it is humiliating to admit that nothing can or will be done about any crime of ANY magnitude under the current dictatorship, veneer of a democracy based on law.

The MSM and the powerless Congress peanut gallery dampens all public outcry no matter how deep the knowledge of the blatant crime is right before our faces.

[oneighty]

17. It was perhaps a vague memory in Brownie's head.

"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"

A Trojan Horse moment.

180

[dehaiti]

19. Carnival Ships Foreign Too

Carnival's ships, like Greece's are not US flagged and have a majority of foreign crew. The cleaning, cooking etc is done by people from less developed countries making as little as $500/month and they depend on tips for a decent wage. I doubt they are getting many tips in New Orleans. I really don't understand how this is all legal under US cabotage and Jones Act laws.

[Lerkfish]

5. simple: you can't get a kickback from a "free" ship.

[napi21]

6. I didn't know the Greeks offered free ships!

It's incredible that FEMA wouldn't have taken that offer!

I will however, accept the Carnival Cruise Line charging what they would have mae if the ships had sailed with paying passengers. What I don't understand is why so few people have taken advantage of these ships. I'd sure rather be there than in the Astrodome or some other mass refuge site. Hell, I'll go now! If our tax dollars are paying for it anyway, can I get onboard???

[Lerkfish]

9. consider: you've been surrounded by water, unable to escape...would a

boat be your next desired step?

[napi21]

13. I hear that, but at least this one is real nice and sure able to stay

afloat! I'm thinking lots of people just never knew this was an option. As far as I know, they are still anchored off the NO coast, and close enough for people to be able to come and go. Maybe even check the damage done to their property and begin some reconstruction. I realize the enemy is the water right now, but I know I'd sure choose to stay on a cruise ship rather than the other options I've heard about.

[Bridget Burke]

21. Has any reporter been on the ships?

How is the food? Nobody expects the same variety as served on a cruise--but the kitchen facilities should allow some pretty decent grub.

Is it easy for the people to get off the ships & investigate their property? What if they live in the areas still closed?

What can the DO on the ships? No shows, no shops--even if anybody had the money. Read? Watch TV? Are recreational facilities like pools & gyms open? Or closed down to save money?

Even the people who were in the Astrodome complex were able to get out for a walk. Or use their Metro passes to get around Houston. (Free Metro passes were available in the early days.) Most of them have moved into apartments, or somewhere they can build temporary homes.

[pitohui]

32. not all displaced persons came off roofs

like i said in my other posts, i know many evacuees who evac'd under their own steam, they have cars, they have a job, but they no longer have a place to stay

how do they get a slot on these cruise ships?

are the cruise ships placed close to their jobs in orleans or jeff parish or another area where ppl need housing to keep their jobs such as biloxi?

i hear talk of trailers being provided, i have not heard of anyone being offered a cruise ship slot

but ppl definitely need housing & not ALL of them are scared of the water now

[abluelady]

12. Actually They Were Charging More

I saw the exact numbers recently and considering the ship isn't sailing, ergo, no fuel, the amount was even higher than an actual cruise. And of course they are not providing food 24 hours a day like on a cruise. An absolute ripoff.

[sandnsea]

14. $32,000 per person

And that's with the lower $192 million number I had seen earlier. They could have just handed these people the money and gotten a better value. They could have handed ME the money and I would have housed an entire family for 6 months for that amount. I will never understand why people make excuses for these greedy corrupt bastards.

[Spazito]

23. Do you honestly think that cruise ships sitting at port, not paying

the usual costs re fuel, etc, nevermind the fact that the workers would NOT be getting the kind of food one receives while on a cruise, the staffing would not be the same yet Carnival is charging more than it would cost per customer on a regular cruise. It is simply another boondoggle to siphon money from taxpayers to corporate friends, imo.

[Igel]

29. They offered bunks on the ships to people in the Astrodome.

The local reports were that the people viewed it as either isolation and segregation, or as preliminary to having the boats transport them elsewhere, and so turned down the offers. The boats were going to stay docked at Galveston (now *that* would have been a fun ride).

Then they 'repurposed' the boats for workers and moved them to NOLA.

[xultar]

7. Well, Brownie is gonna blame DU cuz someone here posted the whole

cruise ship idea.

[longship]

11. But the cooks on the Carnival ships are 5 star.

and the cooks on the Greek ships are only 4 star.

Isn't that work 230-some million dollars more?

[Igel]

30. To be atemporal is to be truly free.

The report I read said the Greek offer was made the day after the US contract was signed. Haven't read confirmation, but the Gks probably didn't originate the idea of cruise ships, and the US deal was inked quickly.

(Thereby fulfilling a condition even more basic than the Occam's Razor post below cited: simple chronological sequencing.)

Actually, the short-term use of cruise ships wasn't that uncommon a suggestion on DU.

[tanyev]

18. How pessimistic. An optimist would say they are half full.

:+

[truthisfreedom]

20. if something so completely transparent as a cruise ship which has fixed

costs and a known rental price is being turned into a profiteering situation, just imagine how incredibly profitable it is for bush's cronies to rip off the American people and dump the future treasury into the pockets of "tragedy profiteers" who will in turn dump these dollars back into future bushco campaigns illegally using the same means that Abramoff and others did before...

this is how it's done, folks. they steal 3 of every 4 Treasury dollars they spend. 200 billion dollars spent on the Iraqi war means 50 billion paid for fighting and 150 billion went directly into the pockets of war profiteers who will fund the thugs for the next 50 years against us.

[gulfcoastliberal]

22. Logical.

It's quite formidable. The plan for the future while the dems pander and pimp to cling to power.

[dehaiti]

24. Now I Get It !

SECOND TEMPORARY JONES ACT WAIVER ISSUED FOLLOWING RITA
The Department of Homeland Security has issued a second temporary waiver of
the Jones Act following Hurricane Rita. As you know, the Merchant Marine Act
of 1920, more commonly known as Jones Act, requires that vessels used to
transport cargo and passengers between U.S. ports be owned by U.S. citizens,
built in U.S. shipyards, and manned by U.S. citizen crews.

The Katrina disaster prompted President Bush and the DHS to issue a
temporary waiver of the Act to allow foreign ships to carry petroleum
products in the Gulf area for a limited period. That waiver expired on
September 19. Chertoff noted that the DHS has received reports of shortages
of gasoline, jet fuel and/or other refined products as a result of the
hurricanes and that he has "determined that such a waiver.is in the interest
of the national defense." Therefore he signed a document which waives the
coastwise laws "generally for the transportation of petroleum and refined
petroleum products for the period until 12:01 a.m. October 24, 2005."

The Maritime Cabotage Task Force, a coalition of maritime interests that is
vigilant in the safeguarding of the Jones Act, was quick to dash off a
letter to DHS expressing grave concerns with the new waiver. In a letter
penned by MCTF Chairman Philip Grill, the coalition noted that the waiver is
"particularly disconcerting because American tanker and tank vessel tonnage
is available and standing by.The practical effect of this Jones Act waiver
is to allow foreign vessels to operate in America but outside of America
law." The letter noted that the foreign-flag shipping companies taking
advantage of the waivers "will not pay U.S. tax, not comply with basic laws
like the minimum wage and not abide by fundamental employment law
requirements." In fact, the letter points out, these companies "have been
granted a unique legal status that is far more favorable than that enjoyed
by any American company. The MCTF says that this incongruity is the reason
why "every American President in modern times - including and particularly
President Bush - has supported the Jones Act."

MCTF suggests that the order be modified to grant waivers only on a
case-by-case basis. MEBA is keeping a close eye on this issue and working
with MarAd to monitor this situation

[buzzsaw_23]

25. NOFTA

New Orleans Free Trade Agreement

Hey there: Welcome aboard and/or Back

:toast:

[NYC]

28. Very informative post.

Thank you.

The Maritime Cabotage Task Force, a coalition of maritime interests that is vigilant in the safeguarding of the Jones Act, was quick to dash off a letter to DHS expressing grave concerns with the new waiver. In a letter penned by MCTF Chairman Philip Grill, the coalition noted that the waiver is "particularly disconcerting because American tanker and tank vessel tonnage is available and standing by.The practical effect of this Jones Act waiver is to allow foreign vessels to operate in America but outside of America law." The letter noted that the foreign-flag shipping companies taking advantage of the waivers "will not pay U.S. tax, not comply with basic laws like the minimum wage and not abide by fundamental employment law requirements." In fact, the letter points out, these companies "have been granted a unique legal status that is far more favorable than that enjoyed by any American company. The MCTF says that this incongruity is the reason why "every American President in modern times - including and particularly President Bush - has supported the Jones Act."

That explains it. It's a form of outsourcing.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[dehaiti]

33. Outsourcing Rip-Off

The agricultural interests have got in on this too. They want foreign ships to be able to transport their goods, so they've applied for a waiver due to the hurricane while there are plenty of US barges ready to work.
Since the USCG became part of Homeland Security they've required extensive background checks of all US mariners due to port security concerns. The people on the foreign ships go thru no such verifiable background check. The bottom line is, Homeland Security takes a back seat to corporate profits. Now they are asking for Homeland Security rules, US cabotage laws and Jones Act laws be waived due to a hurricane that did not affect their transportation needs in any way. If the rivers are clear the US has more than enough ships and barges to supply agriculture and petroleum needs.

[NYC]

37. Thank you for all this information.

It is extremely important, and I would have missed it if not for you. Outsourcing will be the death of this country.

Homeland Security does not exist for our benefit. They have proven that repeatedly.

Please keep posting valuable information like this when you have it. I see you have only 3 posts, but they've been very good ones, so please stay active.

[Carolab]

27. Maybe they thought they could recruit some new "help".

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/ot.html

[pitohui]

31. i don't understand this story

i know lots of ppl who need housing

where are these cruise ships parked, is it some place where ppl can't get to & from their jobs in orleans or jefferson if they take a berth on the ship, is it that there is no parking for the ppl's cars, what's the deal

my husband's business is trying to get a fema trailer for some of their workers, these ppl have jobs if they just had a place to stay, they can't drive in from a relative's house in east jesus, georgia every morning to work in southeast louisiana!

[localroger]

36. Near Orleans, which has been closed

I suspect these ships will fill quickly as businesses in Orleans Parish open and need places for their workers to stay. This has been the bottleneck getting Jefferson and St. Tammany back online; so much housing is destroyed that there isn't enough housing for enough workers to keep the businesses that have re-opened staffed.

Being located by Orleans, which has until a few days ago been closed, there hasn't been any such need for interim housing where the ships are berthed. That will probably change real fast. My company just got a letter from FEMA offering to place as many housing trailers as we could put in hookups for if we needed them to house workers, and we may very well take them up on the offer. Our guys from Lake Charles are now displaced, but we can use them rebuilding in NOLA. But we have no place for them to stay.

[VegasWolf]

34. Are they half empty or half full? Bush would say they are half full, but

Bush doesn't count, he is so full of meds that dog shit looks rosy.

[Scurrilous]

38. Bush defends FEMA deal with Carnival

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/12788068.htm

Gov. Jeb Bush and others defended Carnival Cruise Lines amid mounting criticism that the Miami-based company is being paid too much to provide ships for Katrina relief efforts.

<snip>

"Carnival Cruise Lines got a little help from friends and foes alike Friday as it sought to defend a $192 million payment from the federal government.

Gov. Jeb Bush said Miami-based Carnival ''responded as a good corporate citizen'' when it agreed Sept. 2 to give the Federal Emergency Management Agency three ships for six months to house evacuees from Hurricane Katrina."

<snip>

"''Carnival Cruise Lines stepped up, and now I think they're being criticized unfairly for it,'' Bush said during a cruise industry conference at the Broward County Convention Center.

Also backing Carnival: Richard Fain, chief executive of archrival Royal Caribbean Cruises.

''There were people suffering, and in a very short period of time they came to the fore,'' Fain told about 1,300 travel agents at Friday's conference, which was organized by the New York-based Cruise Lines International Association. ``Now, people are Monday-morning quarterbacking.''

[dehaiti]

39. Carnival, Arison and Bush

Mickey Arison and family have contributed over $100,000 to the RNC in recent years.
Of course Jeb is going to defend this deal !!

[Scurrilous]

40. Jeb calls Carnival...

...a good corporate citizen. That's some funny sh@t.

Carnival's ships are registered in foreign countries, employ mostly foreign crews, and pay almost no US income tax.

That's a good corporate citizen?

:rofl: