Vietnam killing spree revelations shock US

[Tinoire]

<snip re who conducted the investigation and how>

Tiger Force operated out of control in the Vietnamese highlands for seven months in 1967. Moving across the region, the platoon of 45 paratroops slaughtered unarmed farmers and their wives and children. They tortured and mutilated victims. A litany of horror has emerged - a baby decapitated for the necklace he wore, a teenage boy for his tennis shoes. A former Tiger Force sergeant, William Doyle, told reporters of a scalp he took off a young nurse to decorate his rifle. The Blade investigation concluded that hundreds probably died. 'We weren't keeping count,' Ken Kerney, a former soldier who is now a California firefighter, told the paper. 'I knew it was wrong, but it was an acceptable practice.' Another, Rion Causey, then a 19-year-old medic and now a nuclear physicist, talked of how villagers were routinely shot: 'If they ran we shot them, and if they didn't run we shot them anyway.'

The killing spree was either ignored or encouraged by army top brass, but when an inquiry did take place it lasted for four years. No one was charged. Details were not released to the public, and are still classified. Bill Carpenter, a former special infantryman with Tiger Force, believes the self-styled death squad's former commander, Lt James Hawkins, should be held accountable. He 'thoroughly enjoyed killing' and, now retired to Florida, still defiantly defends his platoon's wartime activities. 'I don't regret nothing,' Hawkins has said.

<snip>

The Blade also found amazing stories from within Tiger Force itself. One soldier, Gerald Bruner, turned on his own men and ordered them to stop shooting civilians or he would open fire. For this, he was berated by a commanding officer and told to see a psychiatrist.


<snip>

However, the series of stories about Tiger Force seems certain to put The Blade in contention for a Pulitzer Prize this year. In fact, the paper is no stranger to awards. The Blade is rare in modern America in being owned by a wealthy local family, the Robinson Blocks, who have a strong commitment to investigative journalism. That means money and time is available for The Blade's reporters to bring in a major scoop. 'We have the resources to do this. There are no shareholders to worry about,' said Royhab.


<snip>

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1071214,00.html

[blm]

1. I admire the stories being told, but

I distrust the timing. I don't believe for a second they are being told at this time for anything but to taint those running for president who served in Vietnam. They want the image of those who served viewed as suspect and barbaric.

Bush has also opened up an investigation long closed of POWs and MIAs in Vietnam that mercenary soldiers have been promoting for years. Why now? Seems that fringe groups blame Kerry and McCain for going to Vietnam to check out the stories and coming back to urge normalization for Vietnam.

I just don't believe in coincidences, as much as I believe that these stories need to be told over and over again.

[IndianaGreen]

2. No one has ever accused Kerry of war crimes

unlike the case of Bob Kerrey.

The truth is the only weapon we have left. The American press are largely lackeys of the ruling class. They colluded with the Bush regime to sway public opinion in favor of the criminal war in Iraq, and its bloody occupation. The American media has been silent about atrocities being committed by US troops, on a daily basis, on the people they were supposed to "liberate."

[Racenut20]

4. I definately agree with the timing theory

It is all to make good 'ole AWOL not look so bad.

[RamboLiberal]

8. Nothing personal but the tinfoil hat theories that this is being revealed

now to weaken the veteran Dem candidates to me is one of the dumbest theories I've heard here on DU.

I think the Toledo Blade deserves a Pulitzer on this story. And I think it serves a warning on some atrocities we've seen in both Afghanistan and Iraq committed in the name of the U.S.

So far these stories haven't gotten much traction. And if they do I'd expect the Freeper bunch and their shills to poo-poo it.

And as others pointed out this could be damaging if Powell's coverup of My Lai gets exposed.

[Tinoire]

9. Kerry's safe. He protested these atrocities and has never been implicated

Powell on the other hand, covered them up.

I have no fears of this hurting Kerry.

If anything it can only raise people's esteem of him for having joined the ranks of heroic men like Ron Kovic and S Brian Wilson who got out and spoke out.

Only those who participated or stayed in and aided the cover-up can be smeared and they deserve to be.

[jobycom]

15. This only helps the Democrats

It weakens the mystique of our troops, makes them look less pure, more like other troops. It implicitly draws a parallel to Iraq, and the longer Iraq remains a quagmire, the more that parallel will continue.

Wars are sold to the public by dehumanizing the other side. Part of the protest against Viet Nam was the realization that we were killing people, not just "enemies." We were killing families in their own homes. The Republicans, starting with the most vile human of our times-- Reagan-- managed to distract the public. They turned the peace activist argument that we were killing our troops for nothing and claimed that the troops were dying because of the peace activists, because we weren't supporting our soldiers. It therefore wasn't possible to "support our troops" and be concerned for the lives of others.

We've got to change that mentality. W is a small-minded half-wit of no particular intelligence or ability. Not a one of us would hire him to manage a business or a crew of any size. If they can use him to start these wars, they can use anybody. The comparison of Bush to Hitler may be exagerated (or at least premature), but the specter of the way the Germans were convinced to support naked military aggression applies to us. If we as a nation can't see that what we are doing is wrong, then we will keep doing it, and we become the next Nazi Germany. We're on our way already, a little ahead of Nazi Germany on the invasion score board for this early in the game.

Articles like this that remind people of why war is wrong are only good for Democrats, liberals, and any other decent people.

[Voltaire99]

25. You've missed the mark by a mile

This landmark story is evidence of the most shocking US atrocities of the Vietnam era. It's the most important work in US journalism in years.

We are talking about Saddam Hussein-calibre evil. Committed by US troops. Whitewashed by US leaders.

To imagine that somehow this nearly year-long investigation was designed to impugn a man like Kerry is just astonishingly naive; there are far more important issues at stake here than some candidate's political fortunes.

As I'm certain you'll understand if you read the series.

[Fovea]

30. If this is a Rover

Then surely he won't object when the AWOL Prez story becomes a mantra, then a meme.

[Judi Lynn]

3. God bless the Toledo Blade

From your article, on the Blade:


Another Blade investigation - into the effects of a deadly industrial hazard - was shortlisted for the Pulitzer in 2000. 'The Toledo Blade is not just another American newspaper. We are much greater than that,' said John Robinson Block, the family's main representative on the paper.

The Robinson Blocks have owned the paper since 1926 and are keenly aware that until the 1920s The Blade was a big player in the US newspaper industry, with a national circulation. 'I suppose we have the ghosts of that history still hanging around with us,' John Robinson Block said.

That history was revisited spectacularly last week. And, as John added: 'As long as I am around, we will continue to try to do things like this.'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Found this article in google, looking for Lt. James Hawkins, to learn more:


Paper exposes U.S. atrocities in Vietnam War
By MICHAEL D. SALLAH AND MITCH WEISS, Toledo Blade
October 20, 2003

QUANG NGAI, Vietnam - For the 10 elderly farmers in the rice paddy, there was nowhere to hide. The river stretched along one side, mountains on the other. Approaching quickly in between were the soldiers, an elite U.S. Army unit known as Tiger Force.

Though the farmers were not carrying weapons, it didn't matter: No one was safe when the special force arrived on July 28, 1967.

No one.

With bullets flying, the farmers dropped one by one to the ground. Within minutes, it was over: Four were dead, others wounded. Some survived by lying motionless in the mud.

Four soldiers later recalled the assault.

"We knew the farmers were not armed to begin with," one said, "but we shot them anyway."

The unprovoked attack was one of many carried out by the decorated unit in the Vietnam War, an eight-month investigation by The Toledo Blade shows. (snip/...)

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/world/article/0,1406,KNS_351_2360531,00.html

[Voltaire99]

22. I'll second that. Excellent series. (n/t)

[northzax]

28. hey, I used to deliver the Blade

I had a Block on my route, no less (and in my class at school) Always seemed like good people to me. But I hated that fucking paper at 5 am on a sunday morning in January in Toledo? brutal.

[KC21304]

5. I believe John Kerry alluded to such atrocities

when he returned from Vietnam and explained why he was opposing the war. He was roundly criticized and some have still not forgiven him for it.

[aeon flux]

6. Winter Soldier Hearings of 1971,

though buried by the press, pretty much shows that atrocities committed by US forces were "standard operating procedure" in Vietnam ever since US involvement began there. My Lai and Tiger Force are far from isolated incidents.

Winter Soldier Testimonies

[aeon flux]

7. Excerpt of Winter Soldier.

William Crandell, 1st US Marine Division:

"...We went to preserve the peace and our testimony will show that we have set all of Indochina aflame. We went to defend the Vietnamese people and our testimony will show that we are committing genocide against them. We went to fight for freedom and our testimony will show that we have turned Vietnam into a series of concentration camps.

We went to guarantee the right of self-determination to the people of South Vietnam and our testimony will show that we are forcing a corrupt and dictatorial government upon them. We went to work toward the brotherhood of man and our testimony will show that our strategy and tactics are permeated with racism. We went to protect America and our testimony will show why our country is being torn apart by what we are doing in Vietnam..."

link

[Tinoire]

10. Thanks- am going to read the full thing! n/t

[Djinn]

11. could the US now admit

that the the tragedy in Vietnam was the MILLIONS of Vietnamese killed, tortured and made homeless and NOT the trauma inflicted on US soldiers which was no doubt awful but considerably worse for the Vietnamese who didn't get to go home after a year.

The arrogance with which the US administration has always viewed Vietnam is quite astounding when you think about it in terms of someone elses war, can you imagine the outcry if the Russians regretted their invasion of Afghanistan, not because it is wrong to interfere violently in the affairs of sovereign nations but because Russians soldiers lost their lives and were subjected to horror??

[jobycom]

14. Well said.

nt

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jobycom]

26. He made a good point

We ignore the fact that we killed over 2 million people, and maimed and injured many more, while destroying their homes and lands. That does dwarf the suffering of our troops and our nation, and it is extremely arrogant to complain about how much WE suffered while ignoring the fact that we caused the suffering on both sides. And yes, I'm using "WE" to include those who supported and those who opposed the war, because even those who opposed it here in America were more responsible than those who only received the war in Viet Nam.

[Mountainman]

29. I don't know how old you are but

it seems you were not around during the war years.

We talked for over 30 years about how the Vietnamese people were treated. This is nothing new.

It gets to me how people 30 years after the fact need to wrap up history is neat little bundles so they can tell the good guys from the bad guys. Who suffered and who didn't and how much.

You need to do that for yourself, I understand.

[jobycom]

31. Read post 15, then this one

I am too young to remember anything of Viet Nam except the radio reports of casualties near the end of the war, and that as a child, but as my earlier post shows, I'm quite aware that the Viet Namese were seen as victims. That has changed. Thus, the post you jumped on (rather like an asshole, if you ask me) was making a valid point-- that we don't consider the Viet Namese, only our own soldiers, NOW. Until we learn-- or relearn, if that point is so important to you-- that a life is a life, we will continue to have high support for bloody invasions on other people's soils, and since that disregard for life carries over, we will continue to hear reports treating our own soldiers more as cutouts than as human beings.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Paschall]

23. Yes, thanks for the link here, aeon flux

I've posted that Sixties Project link a few times. I hope more people will pore through the testimonies in light of this new investigation.

I can't ever forget listening to the Winter Soldier hearings on Pacifica Radio. Blood-chilling.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Karenina]

12. This shit is 35 years old

Wait till the sensitive little things get a whiff of what's going on NOW in Iraq. That is is anyone is left alive to tell the tale. THREE Marines from Pfc. Lynch's rescue unit SCHON TOT! :tinfoilhat:

[Nlighten1]

13. Gerald Bruner

A man with a conscious.

[jobycom]

16. Now, you wonder what our soldiers are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Or do you only wonder why we assume it's different this time?

I wonder if we use the same means of torture, rape and murder as Hussein to keep the Iraqi dissidents in line, or if we use completely different means.

[jobycom]

17. And another thing-- how many years later do we still prosecute Nazis?

Even though the few remaining Nazi war criminals are old enough to be dead or to have been too young to have held much rank in WWII, there are still people chasing the few stragglers, deporting them to Israel (which wasn't even a nation yet), and having them tried.

So why wouldn't we try this Lt? Why are our war crimes immune from prosecution? Even most of our own government admits our actions in Viet Nam were wrong, so why not prosecute the worst of the worst?

[lindashaw]

18. It's the modern-day implications of this that bothers me. Personally,

I think that some kind of dialogue should be opened up with the Palestinians, yet everyone says, "We can't do business with terrorists."

I agree: you can't do business with terrorists. But this isn't exactly the same as someone kidnapping a child and wanting to bargain for the life of that child for their own gain. It's about a people (the Palestinians) who have been driven to the point of insanity by the desperation of their circumstances.

And then we find out stories about ourselves like this one, where WE are the terrorists. And I ask myself, "What if people refused to talk with us on the basis that 'the US are terrorists'?

I don't think any country has clean hands and that we should all stop trying to remove the speck out of our neighbor's eye when we have a beam in our own. The French have their history, England -- everyone has their history.

I'm just uncomfortable when our country sets itself up as the judge and jury of what is proper in this universe, while we have these kind of skeletons in our closet. I hope that we can get a President who has the grace to be humble and approach the world on an equal footing, not one of superiority.

[Tinoire]

19. Nice post. My feelings exactly! n/t

[jobycom]

27. Nostalgic sigh...

Well said, all the way down. I wonder how much of our arrogance comes from us having no leaders who think that way, and how much of it is the result of national hubris. Clinton-- with a couple of exceptions-- dealt with the world as equals. Gore seems to have felt that way, as well. If Gore had taken the office he was elected to, would our nation be more aware, or would he just be out of step with the people? Or is just that we are split between those who understand and those who don't, and the president just gives voice to whichever side he agrees with, so that we seem to follow our leader?

We have a holiday celebrating a slave-capturing child-raping genocidal explorer (Columbus), and a non-violent champion of human rights (MLK-- not to mention Jesus, once you get past the religion side of Christmas). I really can't decide what that says about us.

[Paschall]

24. Not just Israel

There is no statute of limitations for crimes against humanity, ie war crimes, in many nations. In the past decade, France has tried two notorious WWII criminals: Klaus Barbie and Maurice Papon. Others are still being sought by French authorities.

[iam]

20. Good and evil

Are the same people, both wearing white and black, by one name today and another tomorrrow.
Conservatism lies in the back, the dark, emerging when fear would rot through a wall of light.
In 1967.
Liberalism is our salvation. Our destiny.

[berry]

33. Thank you for posting this! I had missed it--did any TV shows even

mention it? (I haven't watched as much TV as usual this weekend, so I really don't know.)

I agree with the many posters who see this as very important, so I kind of hate to lower the level of the dialog back to the political implications of the publication. BUT after staying up all night to read every word and look at every photo, a few points come to mind.

1) John Dean's name came up more than once as someone who had been keeping an eye on the 4+ year investigation--with maybe a slight suggestion that he may have helped cover it up, or at least didn't push for it to come out. (This would be quite gratifying to people who may be irritated with his critiques of Bush*.)

2) However, the final, crucial cover-up came in 1975 when the investigation was over, and Ford was Pres. That puts Cheney and Rumsfeld into the Defense Dept, doesn't it? Either under Nixon or Ford, or both? One wonders what they may have had to do with covering the whole thing by making the records top-secret? Ollie North was peripherally involved in My Lai--helping get one of the actors off the hook. And My Lai is part of the same pattern (and not so far from the Song Ve Valley).

3) Of course, the particular atrocities at issue happened in 1967, before Nixon was even in office. But the unwillingness to deal with it openly, or to renounce the attitudes that made it possible, was Nixon's (and even Ford's?) as well as Johnson's.

Anyway, my point is that this could hurt a lot of people on either/both sides of of the aisle. But I agree with those who have said the truth is more important than any fear or hope of fallout. A national discussion of this story would be salutary--if it is allowed to happen. (After I get some sleep, I'm going to follow the links to the other Vietnam stories from Pacifica. Thanks for those too.)