Town Votes Tonight On Anti-Gay Statue

[davidinalameda]

http://www.365gay.com/newscontent/102803statueAdvancer.htm

The Casper, Wyoming City Council will meet tonight to decide what to do about a statue condemning Matthew Shepard to "burn in hell".

City Manager Tom Forslund said the city is "repulsed" by the proposal, by anti-gay preacher Fred Phelps, to place the 6-foot-tall granite monument in a downtown park. (story) "There is no one that wants the Phelps' hate message placed here," he told the Rocky Mountain News.

The monument would bear a plaque showing Shepard engulfed in flames with the words: Matthew Shepard - Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22."

[DarkPhenyx]

1. Go here and vote.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mrphelps/

[davidinalameda]

3. signees?

6. Shirley Q Liqour
5. Rush Limbaugh

[DarkPhenyx]

4. Yeahhhhhhhhhhh...

...are you really surprised though? Idiots and morons abound in the world. Many of them are hateful enough to not only support this crap, but work at scuttling attempts to fight it.

[TeeYiYi]

25. Signed and thank you DarkPhenyx. ......n/t

TYY :thumbsup:

[Mikimouse]

2. 33853 sigs at 6:30CST

n/t

[hlthe2b]

5. THis is what angers me about organized religion...

Where are all the religious leaders of the various Protestant and Catholic churches? Whether they denounce homosexuality or not in their own religious teachings, this is so repugnant to the overarching tenets of Christianity. Why is there not an overwhelming outcry from the leadership of these religions, as well as their membership? Why are true Christians not calling the Phelps ilck and the extremist fundies on their bastardization of Christianity? We should be able to STOP this kind of crap and send their ilck back into the shadows...

It makes me physically ill. I pray that Shephard IS in a better place. Heaven help the rest of us!

[gratuitous]

10. We're doing our part

Our congregation is a publicly affirming member of the Supportive Congregations Network. We work hard toward the full inclusion and participation of everyone in our denomination and congregations of the denomination. And we're not alone.

Millions of Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Baptists, Unitarian-Universalists, Jews and Muslims are also committed to fighting for the full inclusion of all God's children in the lives of their congregations. Why don't you hear about them? Well, we're not as "colorful" as Brother Fred. We don't carry demented signs and make foolish pronouncements. But we're out there, working year in and year out to bring our understanding of God's vision into reality.

For our efforts, we deal not only with the vitriol of hate-mongers like Brother Fred, but ostracism in our own denominations and censure by governing bodies. The tide is turning, but it turns slowly. Many a well-intentioned person of faith has been stymied by the "clobber" verses in the Hebrew and Christian testaments. We're working to overcome that, but several hundred years of institutionalized prejudice is difficult to overcome in a quarter century.

If you're distressed by the lack of voice given inclusiveness in organized religion, I suggest you commit to being a more active participant at the house of worship of your choice. I'd be happy to share whatever expertise I can lend from a decade in the trenches of the Church of the Brethren.

[DarkPhenyx]

11. Or you can test drive Paganism.

Inclusion pretty much comes as a part of the package. We have homophobic people in our religion, but at least it isn't codified in our teachings. They are also fewer and farther between. We all kinda have that burning at the stake thingy in common.

[hlthe2b]

24. Please don't get me wrong, Gratuitous...

I am very aware of the efforts within various congregations and denominations and as one raised Methodist, have found the kind of tolerance in many congregations throughout the country that you are referring to. However, that is not the point I'm making. We need the national LEADERSHIP for these denominations to be vocally speaking out against Phelps (e.g., National Council of Bishops, etc.) as well as some of the horrible intolerant comments made by Pat Roberts, Fallwell and some of the other established RW fundies.... We need to take back Christianity and call these exploiters on their twisting and turning of the bible to suit their intolerant objectives.

My issue is with National LEadership, not the countless devout religious followers who are actually leading the way through their daily actions.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Christ said nothing about homosexuality

It is alluded to in a letter from Paul, which also condemns sexuality for those who are interested in getting places spiritually. And that little line from the Leviticus? Abomination? Well, that same book says eating meat and milk at the same meal is an abomination. So when is this hateful preacher going to erect an anti-cheesburger monument in front of his local McDonald's?

The best way to fight these people is with the truth. Making them look ridiculous will make them lose their credibility and power.

[Kinkistyle]

26. Most "Christians" don't even read the Bible.

They just listen to what their preacher and parents tell them. The ones that do read the Bible rationalize its inconsistency by labeling the "disagreeable" parts metaphor and allegory, and the "agreeable" as Absolute Truth. Of course the "disagreeable/agreeable" parts, and just how they should be interpreted very often vary across the wide spectrum different sects within Christianity.


"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word...."
- Martin Luther

[number six]

38. Yeah, if they actually read the bible..

That Jesus guy looks like a bit of a commie!

[OldSoldier]

50. Phelps on cheeseburgers...

On Phelps' hate site is a FAQ. On it he discusses the Mosaic Code.

Phelps claims there are two parts to the Mosaic Code--moral and ceremonial. Says Brother Fred, if you don't obey the moral laws (no gay sex) you're going straight to hell, but if you break the ceremonial laws (by eating cheeseburgers or wearing cotton/poly blends), you're fine.

Quick question for Mosaic Code lovers: The Book of Leviticus says it's an abomination to cook meat in its mother's milk, Which would naturally preclude eating cheeseburgers. But if you made cheeseburgers from beef patties and goats-milk cheese, would you be okay?

[Wednesdays]

51. That's a roundabout way of saying,

"Well, that's different."

Just like "well, that's different" when it applies to a Dem as opposed to when it applies to those who wear the "magic R" after their names.

[7th_Sephiroth]

28. they all talk about love and peace

but all they say is hate hate hate, like a bad version of Furi Kuri

[regnaD kciN]

48. Nothing like a few categorical statements...

That's right, "they all" do this and "they all" do that.

Just like all liberals hate America and love terrorists.

:eyes:

[Liberator_Rev]

41. "Liberals Like Christ" is crying out!

We have several sites in which we
a) Give GLBT's advice on how to combat the R R (which on this and several OTHER important issues included the ROMAN CATHOLIC HIERARCHY :
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/GayChallenge
b) Address fellow Christians : http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/ChurchvsGays &
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/about/homophobia.html .

c) an important part of the defense of GAYS is to expose the hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, for posing as paragons of virtue, when they have a history of being paragons of VICE. But DU appears to have bought the view of Conservative Catholics here that it is "Catholic bashing / bigotry to reveal unflattering history, no matter how accurate and true, and has been censoring my efforts to expose that history.
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org

[regnaD kciN]

47. You obviously haven't studied the matter very clearly...

"Organized religion" has been condemning the Branch FredPhelpsians for years on a consistent basis. When they picketed the Episcopal Church General Convention (or, as they proclaimed it, the "Episcopal Whorehouse of Queers") back in 1997, they were even met by a counter-protest of Baptists, complaining about the Branch FredPhelpsians appropriating the name of "Westboro Baptist Church" when every Baptist convention in the country (yes, even the Southern Baptists!) have condemned them.

But what can "organized religion" do when dealing with what is, quite frankly, a cult made up of a mere handful of members (virtually all of them members of the Phelps family) who are determined to garner media attention via outrageous behavior? Tell everybody they don't represent Christianity? Been there, done that. Demand that they be legally suppressed or silenced? This isn't Spain circa 1500, and I don't think most of those who call on "organized religion" to do something about them would be happy with a church/state situation that would allow such an action.

[Parche]

6. phelps

For all that the ignorant moron Fred Phelps
does, he is the one that is going to burn in
Hell

[dusty64]

7. Yeah, and sometimes its

all I can do to keep from helping him get there a little faster.

[pansypoo53219]

13. well,

according to the bible, those who lead his lambs astray get special punishments, so phelps and pat robertson should b in for a surprise.

[regnaD kciN]

49. Phelps in Hell...?

I don't know. As much as I dislike the guy, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the merciful God forgives those who act out of insanity. And I have very little doubt that Phelps is seriously mentally disturbed, to the extent of not being fully responsible for his actions.

A few millenia in Purgatory wouldn't hurt, though...

;-)

[movonne]

8. This Phelps is a real nut case and should get professional help!!!

Can you imagine taking a walk in the park and coming upon this obscene monument. What is happening in this country.

[DarkPhenyx]

9. Well, it looks like it isn't happening.

One guy is being a complete nut case, but the city council is going to be voting against it. I have a feeling tehy will not let this happen, no matter what. They already know what thier options are. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 10C monument removed.

[ablbodyed]

15. What's happening is that....

there's far TOOOOOOO many people who can't think for themselves. IT'S SOOOO MUCH EASIER to have somebody else do it for them. The weak-minded are drawn to this kind of 'religion' completely devoid of spiritual content.

[maveric]

42. Like a professional "hit"? n/t

[tsipple]

14. Select Biblical Quotes

Hebrews 12:23: "...God, the Judge of all..."

Deuteronomy 1:17: "...You shall not fear man, for the judgment is God's..." (Referring to the role of people as judges and their limits.)

2 Chronicles 19:10: "Whenever any dispute comes to you from your brethren who live in their cities, between blood and blood, between law and commandment, statutes and ordinances, you shall warn them so that they may not be guilty before the Lord, and wrath may {not} come on you and your brethren. Thus you shall do and you will not be guilty." (Referring again to the proper role of people as judges and how they must not run afoul of God's judgment.)

And there are other relevant passages, but that's a quick three.

My point being that Fred Phelps has got even Christian teaching wrong. Phelps cannot know whether Shepard entered Hell, nor can he judge Shepard. Only God can judge entry to Heaven or Hell. Including Phelps's future status.

[TrogL]

18. You forgot Romans 2.1-2

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

This is right after a famous "clobber" passage.

From the Skeptics annotated bible http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/index.html

[johnnie]

37. And the ever popular...

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

I think some of these radical thumpers keep the white-out company in business...

[Pompitous_Of_Love]

16. Come on, Casper, don't let me down!

My beloved former home town, Fred Phelps is not fit to tread the soil inside your city limits. Show this hate-monger that his poison isn't welcome in Casper!

[DemVet]

17. This statue is disgusting.

It's one "art form" that should be censored. x(

[PartyPooper]

19. dwickham, thank you for posting this thread. Please update with results.

I hope this 'initiative' fails miserably...as it should. I feel so badly for Matthew's parents who have gone through so much hell already...and, having to endure this crap is just too much to bear. Let's all hope it is resoundingly defeated.

May Matthew truly rest in peace!

O8)

[flamingyouth]

20. Good grief

This has to be the most ridiculous town issue I've heard about in a long time. It really makes me cry when I think about hatred like this, but it also makes me angry too. My mom grew up in Wyoming and has nothing good to say about it - not that there are not wonderful people there (I have met many). I can't even talk to her about stuff like this, though; she just says, "What do you expect?" It's all very sad.

[DemoVet]

21. I've got to come out and say it,

has it occurred to anyone besides me that Fred Phelps acts like a self-hating gay? ("methinks he doth protest too much", etc.) I mean, the guy's church is made up of his children, of which I believe he has about 10, and thier children and some other relatives. He beat his wife and children viciously. He seems obsessed with homosexuality to the exclusion of almost every other issue. I'd bet my Judy Garland collection that this guy has a history, he's had some experiences at some point in his life. I know it's bad form to out people, even right wingers, but this guy should be a special case. Can you imagine the consequences to the right wing if their favorite fag-basher turned out to be a, well, practicing homosexual?

[PartyPooper]

22. "American Beauty"

Remember that scene with the guy who was so homophobic? Hmmm. I think you maybe right on this. Fred Phelps...well, to me, too...he 'doth protest too much'. Sadly, he may have been abused as a child. Maybe we could get him into court-ordered therapy to find out the answer!

[Kinkistyle]

23. Can we please invade Casper Wyoming?

Looks like a new faction of the Taliban has set up shop there. Oh wait, they don't have any oil... forget about it.

[saigon68]

27. Oil does control certain actions

Without it---- the "Corporate Masters" won't get involved

[dusty64]

29. Plaza chosen as Ten Commandments monument solution

CASPER, Wyo. (AP) - The City Council decided Tuesday to move a controversial Ten Commandments monument out of a park and into a plaza that will honor a variety of historic documents.

The 5-4 vote followed a unanimous rejection of an offer by the Rev. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., to place his own monument in the park.

Phelps has been calling for a monument declaring that Matthew Shepard, a gay University of Wyoming student who was murdered in October, 1998, went to hell because of his sexual orientation. Shepard's murder sparked a nationwide outcry for hate-crimes legislation.

Phelps threatened to sue if the city did not comply with his demand. Meanwhile, the city was threatened last month with a lawsuit from the Freedom From Religion Foundation, of Madison, Wis., if it did not remove the Ten Commandments monument from City Park.


http://www.trib.com/AP/wire_detail.php?wire_num=296726

[IndianaGreen]

30. The problem are these inbreds from Kansas

All of the members of Phelps's church are related to one another. His "congregation" is nothing more than a clan that thrives on hate-mongering. I find it interesting that the Christian group that put the Ten Commandments monument has proposed that the land be donated to them by the city in order to keep Phelps from putting his "Mathew Shepard entered Hell" monument.

Phelps scares even the Xtian fundamentalists!

[GinaMaria]

31. that statue says so much

about Fred Phelps. It exposes much too much of his soul. I would rather not look or be exposed to anyone like this. He belongs in a mental institution.

[dbt]

32. (Cueing up a Ten Years After track from 1972)

I never really understood religion
Except it seems a good excuse to kill
I never really could make a decision
I don’t suppose I ever really will

I can’t relate to any power structure
Where ego is the driving energy
I let mine go long, long time ago, now
When I decided that I would be free

Only thing I understand is living
The biggest sacrifice to make is death
Once you’re dead, there’s noting left for giving
The life means fighting for your every breath.

:freak:
dbt
(Baptist-free since 1967)

[hlthe2b]

33. Anyone know what the Casper Council decided to do?

eom

[MostlyBlackCat2]

34. They rejected it! YAY!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101546,00.html

The City Council decided Tuesday to move a controversial Ten Commandments (search) monument out of a park and into a plaza that will honor a variety of historic documents.
The 5-4 vote followed a unanimous rejection of an offer by the Rev. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., to place his own monument in the park.


----
smart move - the 10 commandments monument was the one thing that would have given Phelps ground to contest the decision. Chalk one small victory up for the good guys on this one. When Mr. Phelps does die, if there is an afterlife, I think he's got a rude awakening coming.

[hlthe2b]

35. The article doesn't make clear...

who is paying for the new plaza, the land it is on, and th enew monuments? Is this privately funded? If not, I DO think there will be legal problems.

[Atlant]

40. When Fred Phelps dies...

Devil: Fred, we've got good news and bad news for you.

Fred: Oh yeah? Give me the god, err, sorry, GOOD news first.

Devil: The good news is that we liked your Matthew Sheppard
          statue so much that we brought it here to Hell.

          The bad news is that we've melted it down and you'll be floating
          in that pool of molten bronze for the rest of eternity --
          have a nice first day of the rest of your death!

[Ashcroft Kutcher]

36. saw this last night on nbc

The town officials should just say point blank. "Listen assholes, your not putting up your terrible, idiotic monument. Get out of my fucking face. NEXT!"

[atreides1]

39. Old Testament

Leviticus is the third book of the Hebrew Bible, also the third book in the Torah(five books of Moses). The Hebrew Bible is referred to by most Christians as the Old Testament.

The book of leviticus also forbids the wearing of clothing made of two different materials, it forbids the planting of different items in the same ground, and it forbid the eating of anything of the sea that does not have fins or scales.

One other thing the word "Abomination" in hebrew means "unclean"

Here's a good one, Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 9 "For whatsoever man there be that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shal be upon him."

Here's one the Phelps forgot Chapter 19, Verse 18 "Thou shalt not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against thy people, but thou shalt love they neighbor as thyself: I am the Lord." And verse 19,
"Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind; thou shalt not sow thy field with two kinds of seed; neither shall there come upon thee a garment of two kinds of stuff mingled together."

My point is that once again a zealot, an alledged christian is using the parts of the bible that suits their own demented beliefs.

[Guaranteed]

43. Kick

because I just can't believe this shit.

[slackmaster]

44. Oh shit, the first dozen times I read "statute"

They're talking about a public artwork?

Fred Phelps really does suck ass. How could anyone take him seriously?

Can we say First Amendment violation perhaps?

[donotpassgo]

45. SCREW LEVITICUS. THE ENTIRE OLD TESTAMENT IS USELESS!!!

n/t

[Skittles]

46. THIS IS JUST F***ING SICK

:puke: