Up to 15,000 people killed in invasion, claims thinktank

[Say_What]

<clips>

As many as 15,000 Iraqis were killed in the first days of America's invasion and occupation of Iraq, a study produced by an independent US thinktank said yesterday. Up to 4,300 of the dead were civilian noncombatants.

The report, by Project on Defence Alternatives, a research institute from Cambridge, Massachussets, offers the most comprehensive account so far of how many Iraqis died.

The toll of Iraq's war dead covered by the report is limited to the early stages of the war, from March 19 when American tanks crossed the Kuwaiti border, to April 20, when US troops had consolidated their hold on Baghdad.

Researchers drew on hospital records, official US military statistics, news reports, and survey methodology to arrive at their figures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1073070,00.html

[Mari333]

1. but..but...um..they hate us for our freedoms?

No, you idiot...thye hate us for murdering them, you f*cking war criminal.
The Most Hated Man on EARTH
Bush.

[ixion]

2. exactly...

for some absurd reason, they're upset because we invaded their country and are killing innocent civillians. I'm sure that if someone invaded the US, we'd greet them with flowers and dances in the streets </sarcasm>

[leQ]

3. replacing an "evil one" with another

In last week's address just before the holy month of Ramadan, Bremer repeatedly referred to Hussein as "the evil one." "You must not lose hope, because you have seen the evil one go," Bremer said at one point. "You, the Iraqi people, whom the evil one was bound to protect, he instead tortured, he instead murdered. You, the Iraqi people, whom the evil one was bound to feed, he instead starved."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31353-2003Oct28.html

[Dhalgren]

7. Right now,

if some freindly country invaded us to oust the Emperor, I'm not sure that I wouldn't "dance in the street".

[maggrwaggr]

10. you'd be a little upset if this was your kid

[DeathvadeR]

15. Wahahahahahahaa

Everybody Wang-Chung tonight!!!!!

damn you post #10!! Now my post makes me out to look sadistic.

[Brucey]

4. Holy crap!

Murder! What a bunch of sorry assholes are running this country!

[nomaco-10]

5. These are troubling numbers, but even more

troubling, is that most of the people in this country don't give a damn. I have been stunned by the total lack of interest in the Iraqi death toll by people in this country, but not at all shocked at the mass media's refusal to air any information about it, I guess the ratings they get covering Kobe, Scott Peterson and Diana's ratbastard butler is all they care about.

I've heard numbers as high as 8000, so I find this new article doubly disturbing.

I will forever remember the spokesperson for CENTCOM saying early on in the war "We don't do body counts." I despise this administration more and more everyday and am disapointed beyond belief in the average american's view that the death and destruction we have inflicted on the Iraqi people is "collateral damage" and the useless, senseless loss of our soldiers is "the cost of freedom".

[Brucey]

6. Very good point.

Why don't people in the US care about the civilian casualties? Is it because they don't get enough photos of them on the news? Are we that callous? Do we hate Muslims? Before the Iraq invasion, a professor at the college where I teach said to a faculty meeting, "I hope Bush goes in there and kills them all." I guess he meant all the Muslims, but I don't know. Do Americans hate brown people and don't care if they're killed?

[nomaco-10]

8. Exactly...

We have become a society only stimulated by visual aids. You might hear about a puppy getting run over by a car and you might get a couple of reactions: "poor pup, but that kind of thing happens all the time, gotta go" or "those are the kind of people that should never get a puppy, it's their fault for letting it get out into the street". Show a picture of the poor, bloody, furry, little thing in the arms of some kid with tears streaming down his face and his Mother with a look of panic and fear on her face, you've got a whole set of different reactions, people sending money, searching for identical puppies to give the kid, some good samaritan sends the whole family to Disneyland.

[malachi]

9. Yes

For proof look no further than the good ol' USofA.

[Say_What]

11. Sad but true, look at the history in our own hemisphere

Being in Latin America with the ugly northern neighbor always intervening with cruel dictators who support US interests has never been any fun. The same US sh*t has happened around the globe--and we wonder why they want to destroy us?? Helloooo

That idiot professor at your college is part of the problem--a perfect example of being educated WAY beyond their intelligence and then (sadly) passing it on to students.

<clips>

America's Allies
THE FRIENDLY DICTATORS
Meet the Friendly Dictators - three dozen* of America's most embarrassing "friends", a cunning crew of tyrants and corrupt puppet-presidents who have been rewarded handsomely for their loyalty to U.S. interests.

Traditional Dictators seize control through force and often are self-styled "Generals." Constitutional Dictators hold office through voting fraud or severely restricted elections and are frequently mouthpieces for the military juntas which control the ballot boxes. Both types of dictators are covered here, along with a few tyrannical kings. but don't look for "enemy dictators" (communists and the like) in this set of cards. These are America's allies, strange and undemocratic as they may be.

Friendly Dictators often rise to power through bloody CIA-backed coups and rule by terror and torture. Their troops may receive training or advice from the CIA and other U.S. agencies. "Anti-communism" is their common battle cry and a common excuse for political repression. They are linked internationally through extreme right-wing groups such as the World Anti-Communist League (see card 17). Strong Nazi affiliations are typical - some have been known to dress in Nazi paraphemalia and quote from Mein Kampf, while others offer sanctuary for actual Nazi war criminals.

Friendly Dictators usually grow rich, while their countries' economies go down the drain. U.S. tax dollars and U.S. backed loans have made billionaires of some; others are international drug dealers who also collect CIA paychecks. Rarely are they called to account for their crimes.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html

[ProfessorGAC]

14. What Iraqi Death Toll?

To listen to the news media here, you'd think this was a totally antiseptic invasion.

One reason people don't care about innocent, non-combatant Iraqis dying in the invasion is that they DON'T KNOW THAT WE KILLED SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE!

The news has been so thoroughly sanitized that the american people are ignorant, not necessarily uncaring, of the suffering of thousands of people.

At the same time, the media rolls over for Georgie's "good news" initiative, people are kept ignorant of the fact that the "improvements" in electrical and water service are modest restoration of services that these people ALREADY HAD!

So, i'd say the problem is that "people", by and large, just don't know. If they did, a lot more would be as outraged as those here on this thread.
The Professor

[Judi Lynn]

12. The Bushies can actually lay out any tripe they wish

not even resembling the truth, and Americans absolutely never challange it. Is it because they are afraid of being attacked as unpatriotic now?

Last night that slimey little Ralph Reed, the Republican stragegist was on some cable news show, and he claimed that because of what the _Bush adminstration has done, now Iraqii women can actually go get the education they were deprived of earlier.

I think it was Tweety who didn't even correct the record in telling him that Iraq used to have a progressive approach to education, comparitively, in the Mid-east. Ralph transposed rigid Taliban attitudes to the Iraqii's world. Odd.


Ralph
Apparently, a lot of viewers are too drunk or too stupid to give a damn, and the misinformation simply lodges somewhere in their domes.

[kentuck]

13. Did they bury them in unmarked graves?

Or did they all get a decent funeral?

[Tommy_Douglas]

16. I remember during the war...

That O'rielly spun away stating the U.S. had killed at least 100,000 Iraqis soldiers and an extremely small amount of civilians.

Truth is we have no idea how many Iraqis died nor do we know how many are dying everyday. If I remember correctly due to sanctions 5000 children were dying every month. I don't think anything has changed to improve those numbers, in fact things might be even worse.