GOP Will Keep Cuba Travel Ban Intact

[Osolomia]

By LOLITA C. BALDOR
Associated Press Writer
October 29, 2003, 3:23 PM EST

WASHINGTON -- Legislation that would relax the ban on travel to Cuba is headed for failure even though it passed both the House and Senate.

Supporters of the bill conceded Wednesday that Republican leaders would strip the provision from the transportation funding bill during House and Senate negotiations so President Bush would not have to veto an important appropriations bill.

"A veto would create too much of a firestorm," said Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont. "They (Republican leaders) will find some other way to finesse it."

... The widely expected result is that when the House and Senate conferees meet to iron out differences in the two transportation bills, the Cuba provision will be quietly dropped.

More...
http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-cuba-travel-ban,0,1990657.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

[goobergunch]

1. This is known as...

non-democracy.

House vote: http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2003&rollnumber=483
Senate vote: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00405

[Say_What]

9. Will any, except Delahunt, have BALLS enough to speak out?

From the article:

``Congress clearly has spoken,'' said Rep. William Delahunt, D-Mass.
``If Republican leaders take this out it really abrogates the
independence of the first branch of government.''

It is an awkward issue for Bush and the GOP.

[Osolomia]

12. It's an even more "awkward" issue for the Dems apparently

Hence the total silence from the presidentail candidates and their supporters!

[Osolomia]

22. Flake (R) urges Congress to keep language on Cuba travel in bill

... Flake, pointing to his amendment's passage last month in the House, 227 to 188, and identical language last week passed in the Senate, 59-36, said Senate-House negotiators who will devise a final two-house version of the spending bill should "recognize this is the will of the people."

... Added McGovern: "It's not enough to talk about democracy. We need to practice what we preach."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=191394

[Osolomia]

23. Baucus joins bipartisan call to lift travel ban

By TED MONOSON - IR Washington Bureau - 10/30/03

GILLETTE — Sens. Max Baucus, D-Mont., Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., and a bipartisan group of other lawmakers joined forces on Wednesday to call for a lifting of the ban that prohibits Americans from traveling to Cuba.

... "To remove this language during the conference committee would allow the conferees to wield undue power and influence over our Cuba policy," Enzi said. "The House-Senate conferees should support the wishes of majorities in both houses and keep the travel language."

... "I suspect the strong vote sent a message to the administration," Baucus said. "They are surprised."

More...
http://www.helenair.com/articles/2003/10/30/montana/a06103003_02.txt

[Osolomia]

24. No to the ‘blockade,’ says Kucinich in Miami

<clips>

“Congressman Kucinich,” I said, “Many in the audience here tonight would like to know what your feelings are on the Cuban embargo.”

He answered without hesitation: If elected president, he said, I would bring down the failed “blockade” (that was the term the presidential candidate used) against Cuba. His speech, and the reference to Cuba, were given during the second annual dinner and reception offered by Southwest Voter Registration Education Project (SVREP) before approximately 150 people gathered in Miami, Florida.

The crowd reacted with a standing and rousing ovation. Kucinich also addressed other very important issues during his speech that night, including health care, taxes, the Iraq War and others; but the crowd had waited impatiently for his pronouncement on Cuba. In my opinion, his answer assured him at least 100-plus new voters from the Miami area.

A lesson, I believe, other Democratic Party candidates should learn.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=191227

[Say_What]

30. Banning the ban on travel to Cuba

<clips>

...Some Republican lawmakers are trying to spare the president that choice by stripping out the travel ban language before the spending bill reaches the White House. But that would only make the pandering worse, by defying the express wishes of Congress through an underhanded, backroom maneuver.

http://ww2.saukvalley.com/opinion/296060264683744.bsp

[Osolomia]

13. Glad to see at least one DUer has finally figured

that much out!

[Democat]

2. It passed the house and senate

What's the point of having a house and senate if someone other than the president can just override them both.

[Judi Lynn]

3. Bad, bad news-

(snip) It is an awkward issue for Bush and the GOP.

"If he vetoes this over the Cuba language it makes him look like a captive of conservative Cuban Americans in south Florida," said William Leogrande, a Cuba scholar and dean of the Public Affairs School at American University. "And if the language is just dropped, it looks like the Republicans are manipulating the process to ignore the majority will of both houses." (snip)

Surely some party will make a lot of noise about this, THIS YEAR.???

It's dead wrong for Americans to be held hostage by a bunch of corrupt, violent pigs in South Florida, and their political accomplices.

[damnraddem]

4. Quietly dropped? Why should it be quiet?

The Dems can raise their voices. If all those Repubs who joined the Dems in passing the bills with the provisions would do likewise, they could make some noise. They could also vote down the mutilated bill and redo it with the provisions in. Yeah, I know, dream on!

[Osolomia]

11. Because even DUers are sound asleep at the wheel!

Dem senators Lieberman and Graham stood with the minority and voted AGAINST your freedom to travel!

Kucinich, Gephardt, Kerry and Edwards were all absent for the historical debates and votes on the travel ban!

Other than Kucinich, NOT ONE of the democratic presidential candidates has the cojones to stand with the majority of Americans:

Democratic Presidential Candidates on Cuba
http://www.lawg.org/pages/new%20pages/Misc/prez-candidates1.htm

Dream on that they'll ever raise their voices with support like DU's!

[Judi Lynn]

34. Meanwhile, every other country tours Cuba all year long

(snip) Despite lack of diplomatic ties,
Israeli tourists flocking to Cuba
By Larry Luxner



HAVANA, Oct. 30 (JTA) — Israel and Cuba haven’t had diplomatic relations since 1973, but that hasn’t stopped thousands of Israelis from touring the Caribbean island anyway.
“We assume that at least 10,000 Israelis have already visited Cuba,” said Daniel Faians, president and CEO of Polaris Group, a large travel wholesaler and airline agent based in Tel Aviv.

Overall traffic from Israel to Latin America is estimated at 80,000 per year, of which half are limited-budget mochileros, or backpackers, Faians said.

“But those who go to Cuba aren’t mochileros,” he said. “They stay in deluxe hotels and travel in private cars with private guides.”

Faians, who spoke to JTA by phone from Tel Aviv, said “Israelis by nature are very inquisitive and are always looking for new destinations. Cuba appeals to the Israeli market because it’s something new and unusual.” (snip/...)

http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=13381&intcategoryid=5

[Loonman]

5. Bush wouldn't want any starving Cubans to get tourist's dollars

No sirree!

[Osolomia]

6. Why this Cuba fight won't work

The author was Carter's ambassador to Cuba:

Why this Cuba fight won't work
Wayne Smith
St. Petersburg Times
October 26, 2003

This month, President Bush and assistant secretary of state Roger Noriega outlined what seems a harsher policy toward Cuba: Noriega before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Oct. 2 the president in the White House Rose Garden on Oct. 10. The approach they described has several obvious flaws and leaves us with the question of ""Why?''

First, they indicated the objective of U.S. policy is to get rid of Fidel Castro. Noriega was most explicit. ""The president,'' he said, ""is determined to see the end of the Castro regime and the dismantling of the apparatus that has kept him in office for so long.''

But that violates all diplomatic norms. We have every right to criticize a government's conduct and policies, and even to impose sanctions against it. We do not have the right to work for its overthrow or ouster. Few other nations, if any, are likely to support us in such an endeavor. Nor are the Cuban people. They want change, to be sure. But peaceful change and change that comes from within, not change dictated by the United States, especially not the United States, which has interfered in Cuba's internal affairs often over the past century and rarely to Cuba's benefit. As one of the leading dissidents, Vladimiro Roca, reacted to the president's announcement that he will appoint a commission to plan Cuba's transition: ""We Cubans are the ones to decide about transition.''

… Yes, a few Cuban-Americans want tougher measures against Castro, but they are a distinct minority. Can it be that Bush is siding with them (without in fact taking any real tougher measures) simply because their views are closer to his own? Or is it that among them are several whose sizable campaign donations are worth trying to keep coming his way? It is a puzzlement!

More…
http://ciponline.org/cuba/cubainthenews/newsarticles/oct03/sp102803smith.htm

[MaineDem]

7. Carter had an ambassador to Cuba?

I'm surprised. I didn't know that.

[Judi Lynn]

35. Yep. Carter opened the U.S. Interests Section in Havana

to allow at least some form of relationship between us and Cuba.

The U.S. diplomat serving as the Head of the U.S. Interests Section was a fantastic guy, Wayne S. Smith, who had served there from 1958 to 1961, then served for President Carter from 1979 to 1982.

He has written TONS on Cuba in the last couple of decades or more, which is available in any search.

[Say_What]

8. Yep, the will of the people usurped once again. Who give a flying f*ck

if a veto would create too much of a firestorm. Repukes manipulating a so-called *democratic* process, AGAIN.

[Mika]

10. Diaz Balart boasted on Miamicuban radio that he would kill it..

.. after the house vote last week.

He wasn't talking about democratic process, he was talking about using his position to override the democratic vote (because Americans can't decide on Cuba, only Cuban "exiles' can, and he's in Washington to prevent America from making a bad decision, and that Cuban "exiles" put him in DC to do just that ).

Democracy killed.

Mission accomplished.

[Say_What]

19. Democracy --Miami style--now fully entrenched in Washington

not good :mad:

[Osolomia]

14. Yet another in the steady slew of editorials while Dems remain silent

October 30, 2003
Cuba
Common sense, at last?
Charleston Gazette

FOR NEARLY half a century, Washington has been punishing the people of Cuba because communists took over their island. The U.S. trade embargo has sought to impoverish Cubans and prevent even medicine and humanitarian help from reaching them.

This cruel policy was imposed partly because Florida’s Cuban exiles — mostly wealthy families who had prospered under the island’s former dictator — wield strong influence in conservative U.S. politics. Washington’s embargo was enforced, even after the Cold War ended and communism no longer was considered an enemy.

For years, we’ve contended that America should end the embargo and begin friendly relations with the nearby neighbor — on the assumption that happy tourists and profitable commerce soon would wipe out Cuba’s Marxism. Most other nations allow open trade with Cuba, and see America as a bully mistreating a small country.

... The Cold War is long dead. It’s childish to continue punishing Cubans because their island was taken over by a type of government disliked by Washington.

More...
http://www.wvgazette.com/section/Editorials/200310296

[Judi Lynn]

15. Really good editorial from Charleston, W. Virginia

Hardly one huge communist cell, would you say? Thanks for taking the time to post it here.

[Zhade]

29. Agreed. This is a good, reasonable look at the issue.

NT!

[Osolomia]

16. Editorial: Congress right to ease ban on travel to Cuba

San Antonio Express-News
10/30/2003

... Members of the conference committee that will negotiate agreements on the spending bill should stand their ground and keep the Cuba measure as it is.

The best way to influence Cuba positively is to end economic restrictions on Americans' dealings with the island nation. Loosening the travel ban is an important step forward.

... Congress should show leadership by forcing Bush to back away from his misguided stance on Cuba.

More…
http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=132&xlc=1076533&xld=132

[Say_What]

17. 'Congress should show leadership' I think the backlash is starting

loved this, with the exception of Kucinich--they're right:

Presidents and presidential candidates hoping to win Florida almost always dance to the tune called by the Cuban exiles who support tough sanctions against Cuba and carry clout in that state. Bush, who had a close call in Florida in 2000, is no exception.

[Mika]

21. The Gore/Lieberman campaign was no exception either

Presidents and presidential candidates hoping to win Florida almost always dance to the tune called by the Cuban exiles who support tough sanctions against Cuba and carry clout in that state. Bush, who had a close call in Florida in 2000, is no exception.

During the Gore/Lieberman campaign Lieberman came to Miami many times to pander to the wealthy Miamicuban extremist minority. In the name of Al Gore's campaign, he made all of the usual extreme & demonizing pronouncements, about how Elian Gonzales wouldn't get his milk & was going to be cutting cane in a child labor camp instead of school, and about how Castro is gonna fall under their admin, etc.

Just like he's doing on his current POTUS run. :puke:

[Osolomia]

18. A better way

Thu, Oct. 30, 2003
Star-Telegram
Louisville, Kentucky

Fidel Castro has done his best during the 40-plus years of the U.S. embargo of Cuba to blame America for his people's suffering.

Unfortunately, the only souls who believe that are the poor Cubans so isolated from the rest of the world that their government controls what they see, hear and know.

Only the most anti-communist ideologue would refrain from admitting that the U.S. embargo hasn't worked. Sadly, that includes many of the Cuban exiles living in the United States who believe that any trade with Cuba benefits only the dictator, who must continue to be punished for his communist government.

... But opening Cuba to greater external political and economic influences will do more to sound the death knell for communism in the Western Hemisphere than sticking hard to a policy of trade sanctions that, after 43 years, are ineffective.

More...
http://www.courier-journal.com/cjextra/editorials/opin-top1030-3651.html

[Osolomia]

20. Cuba: Loosen travel restrictions - Bush should listen

Ans so should all Dem contenders and their supporters!!!

Thursday, October 30, 2003
Cincinnati Enquirer

It would be wrongheaded for President Bush to veto legislation that finally lifts the U.S. travel ban to Fidel Castro's Cuba, after more than 40 years.

... Camaguey, Cuba native Roberto Peraza, president of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce of Greater Cincinnati, was once a staunch supporter of the trade embargo on Cuba. But after visiting his native city last year for the first time since 1960, he believes the United States needs to change its course.

"My personal opinion is that we need to increase commerce and travel with Cuba," the retired Procter & Gamble executive said. "Current policy with the embargo has not succeeded. I say this because we oppose the regime."

Peraza's opinion is shared by thousands more, including a growing number of the vast Cuban community in Florida.

We hope Bush listens.

More...
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/10/30/editorial_30cuba.html

[Judi Lynn]

31. It's stunning seeing how many great articles are getting written on this

Banning the ban on travel to Cuba


Published: Thursday, October 30, 2003
Politicians often act on political motives — that's the way the system works. Leaders don't last long if they fail to represent their constituents or respond to electoral reality.

But occasionally a politician's motives are so crass, so hypocritical and so damaging to the public interest that even members of his own party start gagging. And that is exactly what's happening now, as a growing number of Republicans are opposing President Bush's policy of enforcing and even strengthening the travel ban against Cuba.

In a word, the anti-travel ban policy is nuts. It helps Castro instead of hurting him. But the administration sticks to it for one simple reason: to pander to the hard-line, anti-Castro Cubans who cluster in South Florida.

Fortunately, a wave of good sense is sweeping over Capitol Hill. With the help of 19 Republican votes, the Senate last week passed an amendment to a spending bill barring the use of government funds to enforce the travel ban. A sizeable bloc of Republicans helped push an identical measure through the House. (snip/...)

http://ww2.saukvalley.com/opinion/296060264683744.bsp

[Judi Lynn]

25. Looks as if there is STILL dialogue, maybe.

October 30, 2003

Last modified December 31, 1969 - 5:00 pm



Baucus, Enzi join group opposing Cuba travel ban
By TED MONOSON
Gazette Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON -- Sens. Max Baucus, D-Mont., Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., and a bipartisan group of other lawmakers Wednesday called for an end to the ban on American travel in Cuba.

Provisions that would prohibit the Bush administration from spending money to enforce the ban have been attached to the Senate and House versions of the Transportation Department's 2004 spending bill.

Lawmakers are trying to reconcile the differences between the two versions and Baucus, Enzi and the other lawmakers gathered to call for the inclusion of the provision in the final bill.


"To remove this language during the conference committee would allow the conferees to wield undue power and influence over our Cuba policy," Enzi said. "The House-Senate conferees should support the wishes of majorities in both houses and keep the travel language."

For several years, House members have voted to end the ban, but this year marks the first time the issue has been backed by the Senate, which voted 59-38 to include the provision prohibiting the spending of money to enforce the travel ban. (snip/...)

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/10/30/build/state/48-travel.inc

[Judi Lynn]

26. Just called the office of one of my state's senators

He's on the Cuba Working Group, but a Republican. Spoke with an aide. He played dumb on Cuba, and asked a lot of questions, and promised to call back on what's going on on the travel ban ammendment.

He kept drawing me out, asking questions, and it finally hit me that they are curious about how much the public really knows about US/Cuba history and relations and current policy.

As long as we remain ignorant, they have no overriding reason to challenge the status quo. Leaves them more time to solicit campaign contributions!

However, my area's Democratic Representative, who is on the House Cuban Working Group has an assistant who is COMPLETELY well-versed in Cuban policy, past and pending. There is NO COMPARISON in the very suspicious, non-committal, distant behavior I've had from three different aides to the Republican Senator, and the completely honorable, public-serving, respectful, attentive, and well-informed conduct of the people in the Representative's offices.

[Judi Lynn]

27. What about contacting members of the conference committee

which will be working on the Transportation and Treasury bill, and letting them know your opinion, one way or another, or removing the support from our Treasury to fund persuing Americans travelling to Cuba. This will effectively end the Cuba Travel Ban, which is mis-named, because it has been cleverly rearranged to not actually BAN travel to Cuba, but to prevent your sleeping in a hotel, buying a meal, or taking a cab anywhere.

THE NAMES!

Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK)
Senator Richard Shelby (R-AL)
Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA)
Senator Kit Bond (R-MO)
Senator Robert Bennett (R-UT)
Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-CO)
Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX)
Senator Mike Dewine (R-OH)
Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS)
Senator Patty Murray (D-WA)
Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)
Senator Harry Reid (D-NV)
Senator Herb Kohl (D-WI)
Senator Richard Durbin (D-IL)
Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND)
Rep. C.W. Bill Young (R-FL 10)
Rep. David Obey (D-WI 7)
Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD 5)
Rep. Earnest Istook (R-OK 5)
Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA, 10)
Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA, 41)
Rep. Harold Rogers (R-KY 5)
Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-KS 4)
Rep. Anne Northup (R-KY 3)
Rep. Robert Aderholt (R-AL 4)
Rep. John Sweeney (R-NY 20)
Rep. John Culberson, (R-TX 7)
Rep. John Olver (D-MA 1)
Rep. Ed Pastor (D-AZ 4)
Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-MI 10)
Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC 6)
Rep. Steven Rothman (D-NJ 9)

http://www.lawg.org/pages/new%20pages/countries/Cuba/travel_calls_conf.htm

Any time spent on calling someone on the list would be a real step forward for Americans. Let them know we want out of this unconstitutional straight-jacket!

[goobergunch]

32. Contacting the Dems won't be much good

because the Repukes usually shut us out of conference negotiations.

:puke:

[Judi Lynn]

33. There are also Republicans on this list

I called the office of the Senator from my state who's on the committee this afternoon, and at least I got to register an opinion. Also sent an e-mail to both senators, and called a Republican Rep. from my state who's on the committee, and contacted my area's Representative.

They need to know we're watching them!

(snip) Action: Contact the members of the conference committee to let them know that the American people expect the Cuba travel provisions to survive the conference committee process. The Democrats on the committee must feel pressure to stand up to the Republicans and fight for these amendments. Meanwhile, the Republicans need to know that the American people are watching this conference and will raise a MAJOR fuss if they act undemocratically. IF YOUR MEMBER OF CONGRESS ISN'T ON THIS LIST, SOLICIT ANY FRIENDS OR FAMILY WHO LIVE IN THESE DISTRICTS/STATES TO CONTACT CONGRESS.
http://www.lawg.org/pages/new%20pages/countries/Cuba/travel_calls_conf.htm

[Osolomia]

36. Usually, except this time the Repubs are leading the charge against Bush

Tell our allies: Don't back down on Cuba travel

http://action.ciponline.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=12660

[Say_What]

37. Contacting Members of the Conference Committee

Contacting Members of the Conference Committee


Action: Contact the members of the conference committee to let them know that the American people expect the Cuba travel provisions to survive the conference committee process. The Democrats on the committee must feel pressure to stand up to the Republicans and fight for these amendments. Meanwhile, the Republicans need to know that the American people are watching this conference and will raise a MAJOR fuss if they act undemocratically. IF YOUR MEMBER OF CONGRESS ISN'T ON THIS LIST, SOLICIT ANY FRIENDS OR FAMILY WHO LIVE IN THESE DISTRICTS/STATES TO CONTACT CONGRESS.

Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK)
Senator Richard Shelby (R-AL)
Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA)
Senator Kit Bond (R-MO)
Senator Robert Bennett (R-UT)
Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-CO)
Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX)
Senator Mike Dewine (R-OH)
Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS)
Senator Patty Murray (D-WA)
Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)
Senator Harry Reid (D-NV)
Senator Herb Kohl (D-WI)
Senator Richard Durbin (D-IL)
Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND)

Rep. C.W. Bill Young (R-FL 10)
Rep. David Obey (D-WI 7)
Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD 5)
Rep. Earnest Istook (R-OK 5)
Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA, 10)
Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA, 41)
Rep. Harold Rogers (R-KY 5)
Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-KS 4)
Rep. Anne Northup (R-KY 3)
Rep. Robert Aderholt (R-AL 4)
Rep. John Sweeney (R-NY 20)
Rep. John Culberson, (R-TX 7)
Rep. John Olver (D-MA 1)
Rep. Ed Pastor (D-AZ 4)
Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-MI 10)
Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC 6)
Rep. Steven Rothman (D-NJ 9)

The message is the following:

Dear ______________

For the first time, the House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate have both adopted legislation to lift the ban on travel by Americans to Cuba (as part of the Treasury-Transportation Appropriations bill).

I urge you to stand up to the Congressional leadership and refuse to let them drop the Cuba travel language from the final bill that is sent by Congress to President Bush. Because the House and Senate passed identical language, dropping the language would be contravening the will and the rules of Congress.

U.S. policy of isolating Cuba, economically and diplomatically, has been a failure for decades. The ban on travel by Americans to Cuba restricts our constitutional right to travel where we wish, and it limits very important contacts and opportunities for commerce between Americans and Cubans.

I urge you to stand strong, to support freedom for Americans and Cubans, and to fight to preserve the language permitting travel by Americans to Cuba. Please report to the House and Senate members our expression of support.

Sincerely,

Name
Address

<http://www.lawg.org/pages/new%20pages/countries/Cuba/travel_calls_conf.htm>

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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