Democrats urged to move to center (by DLC)

[Rose Siding]

Some leading Democrats are moving to stake out more conservative positions on gun rights, reconnecting with "people of faith," and even voting to ban partial-birth abortion as the 2004 election approaches.

Polls have shown that liberal positions on social issues have cost Democrats elections in the past decade, and strategists are urging Democrats to stake out positions in the political center.

At a recent Democratic Leadership Council conference in Atlanta titled "God, Guns and Guts," DLC officials said their party had to stop avoiding the cultural issues that have helped Republicans make inroads among labor union households, married women, families with children, and religious people.

"It's time for Democrats to switch from a strategy of avoidance to a strategy of engagement" on cultural issues, said Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute, the DLC's think tank. "Voters are going to assume the worst unless we set them straight."
snip>

Amy Sullivan of Princeton University said Democrats need to connect with people of faith by "genuinely expressing their own religious faith," by "distancing themselves from militant 'secularists,' and speaking out about the moral health of the country."
Along with other participants at the DLC forum, Ms. Sullivan said that Democrats need to address "concerns about the moral condition of the country and the challenges of families trying to raise children," she said.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031029-105103-3000r.htm

This is just the Wa Times, but I didn't see any other coverage and it sure is timely, given Our Own Zell.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. The Economy.

Or lack thereof.

That is the challenge families face. Everything else is simply polemic.

[asjr]

10. DLC

Iraq is a big issue, but most Americans today are worried about "putting food on their family." They are worried about health insurance. I don't want my candidate ruled by committee. It is well past time to have a candidate to speak to us, the ones who really matter, and we have some just like that. We have the most corrupt administration EVER now and going along to get along is the wrong attitude. I believe in having "faith," Maybe I am just completely nuts but pandering to certain segments to me is just going along to get along. It has no business being in a platform. I believe fully in separation of church and state.

[madfloridian]

2. Is this the Will Marshall of PNAC also?

I thought I saw a signature by that name. I think he is the one who called for Dean to drop out.

[Rose Siding]

6. I'm having trouble disconnecting

any this stuff from Dean, so I wouldn't be surprised. For instance, here's how rabid Zell was over him last night on Hannity:

"You know, if some of these folks have been living back to that April night in 1775 when Paul Revere came riding through, saying, 'The British are coming, British are coming' - if Howard Dean was living back then he would have yelled out the window, 'Shut up I'm trying to get some sleep in here.'

http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=7334

That's a pretty harsh comment about a guy who's reputation as a fighter is only GROWING. If the SEIU endorsement comes through for him, the establishment pols have every reason to bring out the big guns now.

[CMT]

8. if Zell doesn't like Howard Dean

then I know he is the man for the job.

[madfloridian]

18. Found this quote from Marshall which indicates DLC mindset.

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.06.13/news11.html

I found this quote from Will Marshall from an article where Edwards criticizes the pharmaceutical companies. It is just so wrong to me.

SNIP..."It's a good time for such political populism, some Democratic strategists argue. Even Will Marshall, president of the centrist Progressive Policy Institute — who criticized Vice President Al Gore's populist turn during the 2000 presidential campaign as "empty populism without any real analysis" — praised the approach. "There's a lot of well-founded anger and suspicion about corporate actors after Enron, other scandals and recent reports of top executives really looting companies," Marshall told the Forward, adding "it's more than fair game for Democrats." The trick, Marshall said, "is to force higher standards of accountability on the actors," but to do so "in a market-sensitive way" that doesn't "undercut the innovation that made the American pharmaceutical industry the world leader."

Don't undercut "innovation." That is how corporations got so much power here...no one confronts them.

[Fovea]

22. Don't undercut "innovation."

Innovation does not mean crap when the drugs are unaffordable for 40 million + Americans. Medicine is profit and marketing, instead of service to humanity, and hiding behind an icon that they no longer actually fulfill is nauseating.

Further, what use do Americans have for new, time release, transderm Viagra. How about better anti retrovirals? How about producing orphan drugs?

I am having a hard time controlling my rage at these pissants.

[Rose Siding]

23. Hah! Go after them

but make sure you pull the punch. IOW, make it look like you did something.

He's a status quo-eeni, alright.

[Zhade]

39. Oh, you mean the Big Pharm that smacks down all others, Marshall?

The same cartel that prices doses of live-saving drugs above the average daily income of those who need them in some developing countries?

The same cartel that allows autism-causing mercury in vaccines, then gets its political cronies to safeguard against lawsuits via the Homeland Security bill?

The same cartel that comes up with a new drug for every day of the week, markets the hell out of them, and rakes in money hand over fist, all without first researching the long-term effects of the snake oil they're selling?

The same cartel that ensures the War On (some) Drugs will remain, so long as Big Pharm can profit off of misery instead of, say, chronically ill patients having the right to smoke non-addictive marijuana for their pain if they desire that rather than popping a cocktail designed to be addictive?

That pharm industry, Marshall? You fucking swine.

[hedda_foil]

20. Yes, it's the same Will Marshall

The SOB is the "brain" in the DLC's think tank (Progressive Policy Institute) and is also advising Kerry, which bothers the hell out of me.

Marshall (along with Lieberman and Bayh -- former and present DLC heads) was also a member of the PNAC-derived Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI)... it's purpose was to propagandize for war during the lead up.

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. There is concern because some Dems come close to opposing PNAC

The Democrats must decide - do they want to put a Dem face on the PNAC strategies or not?

[bleedingheart]

4. I am waiting for the DLC to recommend that Women "know their place"

screw em...

the more I read stuff like this, the more I lean left.

This is what the DLC doesn't seem to remember.

100 years ago, people got paid very little, women didn't have the right to vote nor the right to make a decision about birth control...let alone abortion. Children slaved away in mines and factories, and there was no social safety net. Women married as a means to feed their kids even if those kids took a beating from their new "pa"...
The DEMOCRATIC PARTY helped to make our world a better place and now we want to concede to coporate and faith based hogwash.

[PassingFair]

71. Yeahhhhh!

I support Bleedingheart for Prez!

[sendero]

83. so true...

.... if the average sheeple American had any idea what "liberals" put on their plate, "liberal" would no longer be a dirty word.

There is next to no-one in the Dem fold who will stand up to the bs rhetoric and point out that you owe your 40 hour workweek to LIBERALS.

Among scads of other things everyone takes for granted...

[bleedingheart]

5. I am waiting for the DLC to recommend that Women "know their place"

screw em...

the more I read stuff like this, the more I lean left.

This is what the DLC doesn't seem to remember.

100 years ago, people got paid very little, women didn't have the right to vote nor the right to make a decision about birth control...let alone abortion. Children slaved away in mines and factories, and there was no social safety net. Women married as a means to feed their kids even if those kids took a beating from their new "pa"...
The DEMOCRATIC PARTY helped to make our world a better place and now we want to concede to coporate and faith based hogwash.

[bowens43]

7. So instead of running Democrats and losing

it is better to run pseudo democrats who will give the conservatives all or most of what they want? IMO we lost in 2000 because we moved too far to the right. If we want to elect re-fucking-publicans we'll vote for the idiot.

Screw these guys.

[TankLV]

47. Ya got THAT right!

amen

[joeybee12]

9. This article is such a f**king joke

That's all I have to say.

[Rose Siding]

19. I apologized for the source

but this back room stuff never gets enough coverage. I think it's something that Dems need to be aware of. The quotes would be contested if they weren't accurate. I envision the DLC as having all the access to lawyers that they'd need to address any misrepresentations.

[Lori Price CLG]

11. They can move *this*.

:puke:

If the Democrats do not offer a clear alternative to the Idiot Usurper in 2004, they will lose the 2004 s-election w.out requiring Diebold's or Jeb's 'help.'

-Lori Price

New Tactics Discussion Group Formed.
CLG_Revolution_Tactics
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CLG_Revolution_Tactics/

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. The Democratic party hasn't been on the left for a long time.

What the DLC is saying is, give into the lobbys and P.A.C.'s

[ixion]

13. to hell with the DLC, IMHO

They've already moved so far to the center that they're on the right.

[zonmoy]

57. In fact

they are the neocon cabals controllers of the democratic party. Their reason for existing is to destroy the democratic party from within by making them indestinguishable from the republicans. That way the path will be clear for them to take over the world.

[MaineDem]

14. Comment on your state's platform

I'm sure it's pretty much the same in each state but right now Maine's Platform Committee is soliciting input on what should beincluded. Here's where we have a say in the direction in which the Domocratic Party in each state is headed.

Contact your state Democratic office, web site, or local committee to have a say in the platform issues.

[MrPrax]

15. So if the fellow democrats disagree with the DLC...

will the DLC vote republican?

Sounds like people like Ms. Sullivan and Zell Miller might be in the wrong party.

This outfit called the DLC should be taken to task for 'breaking ranks' and lack of loyality to the cause IMHO

[RetroLounge]

16. DLC urged to go to hell (By Dems like me)

if they are that scared of Dean, and if Benedict Arnolds like Zell are that scared of him, then I KNOW that Dean is the right candidate.

Time to send Howard Dean some more Green!

[eissa]

17. I just e-mailed the DLC....

....told them that Zell Miller should be their new poster boy. I'm not budging any further right; the DLC can :nuke: themselves.

[Fovea]

21. Democrat Urges DLC to piss off and join the NeoConservatives

where they feel at home.

The class warriors and the theocrats already have a party, stupid!

[seasat]

24. The problem is they keep changing the concept of the "center"

Clinton moved to the center when he ran and governed from the center, IMHO. However, with the radical right lurch of the current misadministration, Clinton seems like a flaming liberal. For us to move to the "center", as the DLC recommends would be to become conservatives. The only one of our candidates that I can say is liberal is Kucinich. He does not appear near as liberal as some of the past Democratic candidates. I'd say that we should stay where we are and not slouch towards conservatism. Just glancing at some of the polls on what US citizens think about issues shows that we are the center.

[paulk]

30. the DLC seems to have really gone off the deep end

Your point about Clinton now being a flaming liberal by DLC standards is well taken. Their center is the right wing of four years ago. Zell Miller criticizing Dean for being too liberal is just nuts.

DLC - "The Republican wing of the Democratic party."

[zonmoy]

58. query

if the democrats are becoming conservatives then what exactly are the republicans becoming.

[pmbryant]

25. The DLC needs to wake up and join the 21st century

They still think they are living in the 1980s or early 90s. The political world is an extremely different place now, but you'd never know it from listening to them.

:eyes:

--Peter

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

26. They actually have a point

Many Democrats should move to center. They're too far to the right. :evilgrin:

[burrowowl]

35. As Gore Vidal

has said: America has 2 rightwings.
I say when are we going to grow a leftwing.

[JaneQPublic]

27. Ask all the losing Dem candidates of 2002 how well DLC's ideas work

"Let there be no light between us and Bush on foreign policy."

"Hug him on defense... "

Yeah, worked like a charm.

[dolstein]

88. Are you suggesting that Carnahan, Cleland and Shaheen

all lost because they weren't liberal enough?

Wanna buy a bridge?

[Larkspur]

28. And Dean tells DLC to move back to center from leaning too far right

As Dean has said on the campaign trail, to call him liberal means that his Dem Party critics have moved too far to the right.

[Guaranteed]

69. That's the way I feel about it.

I was never a liberal until after 9/11.

[iam]

29. Move to the center?

What is the "Center"? The center is defined by people, politicians. We don't move to the center by copying the wrong - wing psychos. Liberalism defines the center by making the case for Liberty, justice and opportunity.
Conservatism yells "Gay Rights", liberalism yells Equal rights for ALL"!
Conservatism yells "partial-birth abortion", Liberalism yells "Mother-Saving Abortion"!
Don't accept the conservative premise - MAKE THE CASE!
Liberalism can never win against conservatism unless we MAKE THE CASE! We must attack conservatism! The base of all thier tyranny. The conservstive nutcakes will move to the the center by adopting liberal values, OUR values!
Don't stand down! MAKE THE CASE!
KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AND CONFRONT CONSERVATISM AND CONSERVATISM WILL BACK DOWN!

[KittyWampus]

31. Many DU'ers Are Openly Hostile To Religion

It would benefit the Democrats greatly to stop allowing Republicans to carry the banner for Morality and Religion.

Also, Family Values., I am well aware what the GOP implies when using the term... and that their agenda is antithetical to Family and Values... but THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES MENTIONING IT.

Further, many who support Dean here on DU seem to happy relooking at the Left's stance on Guns.

And as far as "Anger". Human beings tend to respond more postively towards messages of Hope and Renewal than Anger and Frustration. Bashing Junior and rabble rousing isn't the same as having a Vision.

Then there's the matter of those DU'ers who like to call the American populace Sheep and heap scorn on those who are too busy trying to make a living and too distracted by the media to become well informed.

[bleedingheart]

32. No political party should carry a banner for religion or morality

let the churches carry those banners.

Personally I think the republicans have besmirched the banners they have attempted to carry.

Morality? Proof is in the pudding... Texas just cut thousands of kids off of healthcare (CHIP)...is that moral??? Is this the morality Americans want?

If your family life is falling apart, your wife is cheating on you, the kids are doing drugs, and you're an alcoholic...voting for a party that carries the family values banner isn't going to help you....

What hope has the Republican party given people?

sorry for my ranting...

[KittyWampus]

38. Values and Morality Are Most Certainly Important Politically

People CARE about Family and their communities.

What do you think the Common Good is?

That is what is under attack by the GOP. How can families take care of themeselves without adequate housing and wages etc.

The GOP has used empty rhetoric to address REAL concerns.

Why shouldn't the Democrats TALK about Family & Community over Individualism, Patriotism over Jingoism etc.?

The fact is, we DON'T.

And talking about what makes life meaningful IS important. Those intangible things... that Spirituality and Religion address.

[bleedingheart]

46. perhaps democrats realize those are personal issues

perhaps they realize that no one individual is perfect....

I think Bush looks like a first class hypocrite for campaigning on morality and integrity issues but doing the opposite when governing our nation.

I don't vote on morality...its too soft and cushy an issue.

I vote based on sound principles and things I can touch, feel, see...

schools, roads, jobs, and growth of the economy...

I vote on track record...if a politician babbles but doesn't walk the line and produce results I won't vote for him/her.

Perhaps I am just to much of a cynic.

[KittyWampus]

53. You Sound Like A CARING Cynic Though!

Is it possible to frame discussions about our need to build roads, improve schools and create jobs with discussions about the COMMON GOOD? Of course, you can't pick up the "Common Good" and give it a pat on the head... it's an Abstract Concept.

There is a mandate in our Constitution to provide for the Common Good.... whatever our individual inclinations... there HAS to be a commonality... a shared ethos or we will disintegrate.

The GOP is now dicatating what this ethos should look like.... aren't they?

Shouldn't we provide a more Inclusive Ethos that goes beyond Self Interest and Material considerations...

[PassingFair]

73. I am afraid that you...

are arguing from a position that assumes that religion and morality are one and the same. In fact the two can walk hand in hand, but are otherwise quite separate. One can be highly moral and profess no supernatural beliefs whatsoever. However, careful reading of the "holy" scriptures (and history) of both Christianity and Islam show that fundamentalist belief in their tenets would necessitate completely immoral behavior on the behalf of the followers. According to "holy" scripture, god has ordered his believers to commit atrocities, and they've done it.

[Blue_Roses]

87. I have to agree

livng in the south, does speak loud when it comes to the issues you mentioned and this is where we are losing Democrats to the GOP. The south is still stuck in many issues that have kept us in the trenches for years. I feel that I am a liberal in my thinking and how I have lived most of my adult life, however, I feel conservative in how I approach the way I raise my children.

For instance, I am pro-choice, worked as a counselor for women facing unplanned pregnancies, and yet I would want my children to practice abstinance at least until they are 30. Okay...seriously, though, I do want them to be "conservative" in how they choose to use their bodies. I personally would not want them to make some of the same mistakes I have made, which have caused me much grief, as well as to lose an innocence that cannot be returned. This is MY choice and MY children, and I will make the decision on how to approach this MY way.

The south, which is a huge supporting base (southern baptists) for bush has to be dealt with in a way that the message comes across--the message that Democrats have excellent ideas on how we can handle issues like this without sending us back to the puritan days!

The south is stuck. No doubt about it and it's time we get "unstuck" and we don't need the "unsticker." (you know what I'm talking about if you saw the press conference with bush yesterday)

[Kinkistyle]

92. Morality != Religon.

For one thing, being religious doesn't necessarily make you moral, and being moral doesn't necessarily make you religious. They are two different things. Religious "morality" comes from a doctrine, possibly written thousands of years ago and is absolute. True morals and ethics evolve and change across time and cultures.

[IndianaGreen]

82. If you want a vision, drop some acid!

Invariably whenever religion rears it ugly head in the public sector, it is always one kind of religion at the expense of all others.

Bashing Junior and rabble rousing isn't the same as having a Vision.

If you want a vision, drop some acid!

[David Zephyr]

33. Hear the DLC's Now-Desperate Mantra: "Stop Howard Dean At Any Cost!"

The DLC is on the verge of irrelevancy with the ascendancy of Howard Dean---and they know it.

The corporate whores that run the DLC, Al From and Bruce Reed, are keenly aware that Dean’s campaign is now on the very verge of solidifying its lead against all other candidates and thereby wrapping up the entire question of who will be the 2004 Party Presidential Nominee.

Worse yet for the DLC, since Dean has been able to raise his tens of millions of dollars without corporate whoring and dependence on the DLC, and because both From and Reed have attacked Dean’s candidacy from the very beginning, they understand correctly that their days as peddlers of influence within the Democratic Party may soon be numbered. Hence, the loud death-rattle from the DLC, an organization more vile than the Republican Party itself.

More vile? Yes, more vile because it is insidious and encourages the likes of Zell Miller, Tom Daschle and Joe Lieberman who between the three of them have collectively supported the Patriot Act, undermined a woman’s right to choose, championed so-called “faith based initiatives”, protected gun manufacturers from lawsuits, cheer-leaded for the War in Iraq which was based on lies, and even endorsed George W. Bush for President in 2004. With friends like the DLC, who needs enemies like the GOP?

Beware when the DLC speaks of moving the Democratic Party to what they have determined to be the “center” for what they are truly after is their own self-perpetuation as influence peddlers in Washington through the means of directing monies from corporate crooks to Democratic lawmakers thereby compromising them and staining them. Far worse than the tattoos of gang members, these Democrats become marked as “purchasable” to polluters, religious fanatics and the crooked defense contractors.

Howard Dean has proven that he doesn’t need them. He has taken the lead in all three of the first contests for the 2004 nomination being tied with Gephardt in Iowa, having a 20 point lead in New Hampshire and being tied with Edwards in South Carolina. Dean also is ahead in California polling and overtaking Lieberman in recent New York polls. So the long knives are being drawn. The DLC must stop Dean now at any cost or else soon they will be out of business and will have to close down their whore house of pimping Democrats to some of the despicable corporations on earth.

Here are the very words of the great corporate whore, Al From of the DLC himself: “the great myth of the current cycle is the misguided notion that the hopes and dreams of activists represent the heart and soul of the Democratic Party." If you agree with that statement then support the DLC. If you disagree with that statement, join us for the coming battle for the very heart and soul of the Democratic Party.

[Rose Siding]

56. Yikes David

I believe every word you wrote is true. And now, out loud, they suggest the manipulation of the public's sense of "morality"!

How shaken they must be. Who could ever have predicted that so many would respond to someone even a little outside of their structure?

[Zhade]

66. Damn straight, David!

Fine assessment of the traitorous DLC.

[PassingFair]

74. Best post

...I've read in a long time, bravo, David!

[WillyT]

89. Excellent David, Perfect !!!

Who said, "I'm tired of goin along, ta get along."?

I'm SICK and TIRED of it!!!

Fuck the DLC!!!

:grr::nuke::mad:

[ninkasi]

34. No, no, no!

I have moved more to the left with every day that passes in the current GOP psycho ward we now inhabit. The right is ruining the country, and for us to inch closer to the center makes no sense. At least, that's how I feel. Others, of course, may have completely different opinions.

For me, though, I lean more left now.

[dpbrown]

36. The numbers don't add up

The DLC and election consultants never tire of telling us about the 40/40/20 rule and why we should cater to wavering Republicans and so-called "Independents" instead of shoring up the Democratic base, redefining a populist message, and getting more people fired up to vote.

And it doesn't add up, and this is why.

Fifty million people voted for Bush and slightly more voted for Gore.

That's a hundred million (or so).

But eighty million (or so) didn't vote who could have.

So under the 40/40/20 rule that makes 40 million Democrats, 40 million Republicans, and 20 million "centrist Independents" that the DLC is all hot to cater to.

Last time I looked 20 million is pretty dramatically smaller than 80 million.

History shows that the majority of the black, brown, white, red, melting pot people of the nation respond to policies that embody fairness, equity, equal opportunity, and education. In other words, Democratic principles.

History shows that once policies of selfish "me-firstism", military adventurism, religious intolerance, racial stereotyping, aristocracy, and forced redistribution of wealth to the rich are exposed, people reject those principles. In other words, Republican principles.

Because those wishy-washy "Independents" and "reformed Republicans" in are even in the middle, they must be confused or ignorant enough to give play to the discredited policies of the class warrior Republican pundits. Therefore, in order to reach them, the Democratic message has to be watered down to "look" more like the Republican message. But there's only 20 million of these people, so who cares?

Even if only Twenty-one million of the 80 million people who didn't vote last time (or throw in all those people who voted for someone else) become motivated by the message embodied in a candidate, then the whole 40/40/20 rule is thrown on its head.

The Democratic Party will win by redefining itself in a way to appeal to people who've left the Party, and to motivate people who no longer feel their participation in the process merits their attention. Not by hijacking failed Republicans in the "muddy middle 20%".

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[lifelong_Dem]

40. There's a huge flaw in your theory

Those 80 million still didn't vote when unapologetic liberals Mondale and Dukakis were running.

Historically, there are people who vote, and people who don't vote, and the non-voters mirror the ideology of the voters pretty closely.

There is no legion of progressive voters out there ready to ride to the rescue. We have to play the hand we're dealt, and like it or not, that means we have to appeal to the center. Now, I don't think the DLCs way is necessarily the right one, but if we run to the left in 2004, we can look forward to four more years of Bush* and the PNAC in power.

[Zhade]

67. Better that the system crash than willingly go fascist.

I, for one, will NEVER align myself with people who enable traitors.

Ever.

[lifelong_Dem]

79. "We've got to burn the village in order to save it"

Now where have I heard that before?

[jiacinto]

44. Again you need more than the base to win

There are not enough Democrats and liberals alone to win an election. As for those who don't vote they haven't been going to the polls for years. And I doubt that you are going to be able to bring them out any more this cycle than they were brought out the last cycle.

[Iverson]

50. better keep drifting right, then!

Yeah, that's the ticket. No left turn. Sorry. Nope. Just isn't thinkable. The center just shifted right again last week when the neocons went further right, so we better follow it, follow it, follow it.

This is liberalism, but just not any liberalism that I recognize.

[Guaranteed]

72. Not the DLC's right.

Kucinich and Dean's right.

[lifelong_Dem]

78. Nice rhetoric

Unfortunately, all the rhetoric in the world will not change one simple, immutable fact: liberals alone do not win a presidential election.

Like it or not, that's the reality.

[Fovea]

84. FDR, Truman, LBJ, Carter, all won elections

The most liberal of them won 3 in a row. You are generalizing from a very small sample, if you do not include a few of the most significant presidents of the last century.

Reality is not what Roger Ailes or Karl Rove says it is. It is what happens where the ballot meets the box. And if a real liberal ran on an unappologetic platform of a new fair deal, voters would come out of the woodwork, there are no American problems that a Kennedy new frontier approach would not be able to solve-- Few injustices that a Truman Fair Deal would not be able to rectify, few market problems a bit of FDR would not stop post haste. America need the best of LBJ, FDR, Truman and Carter's understanding of business, social and diplomatic reform to even begin to start attempting to bail us out of the fatal course our idiot boy king has set us on.

And don't get me started about education.

[lifelong_Dem]

85. That was over 50 years ago

The country is a very different place today that it was then. In the past 35 years, liberals have won exactly ONE presidential election - and that was mostly because of Watergate. It took an excellent politican - Clinton - running on a CENTRIST platform to get us back in the White House.

Again, I'm not defending the DLC here - I have a lot of problems with their recent conduct - but the fact is that we cannot run to the left and expect anything except a landslide loss on the scale of 1984 or 1988.

And as for your claim that voters will "come out of the woodwork" if we run a liberal candidate, do you have ANYTHING to back this up, other than wishful thinking?

[Fovea]

91. National Health care and lifting the ban on gays in the military

are not centrist positions, even now.
The DLC abandoned the third way, and lost the democratic core.
It is not a lot more complicated than that.

You do not get big participation out of the disenfranchised.
Show the working class and the middle class they have more to fight together against and close the f'd up Roger Ailes strategy down for another generation at least. The middling class needs so much help right now just to get to the point where life is as good as old europe it is not funny. They will figure it out faster if we all yell it out loud instead of the Hey HEY, Morning in America! approach. It is not morning in America, it is the beginning of a long hard slog.

[Iverson]

99. darn!

"liberals alone do not win a presidential election"

And that was exactly what I argued too!

Oh, wait a second. No, it wasn't.

Oh well! Never mind! Ready ... march!

To the right
To the right
To the right, right, right.

[metisnation]

68. makes sense

lets get some of the lame brain fence sitters to vote correctly this time around

[Iverson]

37. in this way, the party leaves people

I was admonished about a week ago for my statement that I felt that the Democratic Party had left me, and not the other way around. A fellow discussant here on DU thought that that was merely rationalization.

Still, my opinions have been fairly steady, except for growing opposition to economic globalization. Gestures like the DLC's tend to confirm that my impression is substantive, not rationalization.

I still vote for individual Democrats, but in the main I am a Green because I need a party that represents my beliefs and preferences. The straw man of "militant secularism" is another in a long line of clues about who represents me, and who is indifferent or hostile.

[Tinoire]

41. "DLC urged to move to center (by Democrats )"

How much more to the right does the DLC think they can drag the party before falling off the cliff?

Whoops, forgot. That's the entire plan- destroy the party by making us indistinguishable from Republicans.

Greener... greener pastures if the DLC keeps this up. Screw them and the horses they're riding.

[MadHound]

42. What the DLC seems blind to

Is that today's "center" is yesterday's Goldwater.

Just gotta love the DLC, always pushing hard for that two party/one corporate master system of government.

And people wonder why I've gone Green.

[ozone_man]

54. I second that emotion.

The DLC can KMA. Time to take the Democratic Party back to where it belongs. Time to merge some Green thinking into the party too.

[Dover]

43. They think they can pick up the readymade groups of "one issue

voters" like the Republicans did. Blurring the lines.....
like....the Patriot Act is a good thing....pre-emptive war is good...

So they want to dump the real Dems that stand to their left in order to pick up more from their right...and just pray that those on the Left that they will alienate will vote against Bush, regardless of the Dem candidate.

Only problem...it's NOT the year 2000 and MUCH has changed imo.

[TankLV]

45. Oh, goody - we can move further left now!

Seeing how the dems have been moving ever rightward for over 10 years now.

Not too much room left on the right of center anymore!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

48. My response? Another $25 to Dean...

It's the only way we can re-center ourselves.

[Code_Name_D]

63. How about a "dumb DLC 2 Dean" campain.

Every time the DLC says something stupid, or tells us to "move to the center" we send him 2 bucks. Or should we make it 2 dimes, to make it aforidable to the $60,000/year crowed?

Just had an argument about Clark's campain mesage. I told them that Clark seems intent on bushing the war on terror. And they seemed to LIKE the idea.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

86. You might be on to something with that idea...

The DLC is so out of touch with democrats. They need to be sent the message that democrats aren't interested in voting for sheep in repiglican clothing.

[kwolf68]

49. Maybe

It's time for the goddamn Republicans to move to the Center.

If the Dems move any closer to the center, I'm going Green.

They are already in cahoots w/ the corporate oligarchs as it is. We see what happens when our nation "moves right": War, unemployment, one big geopolitical mess after another, hatred, pollution, corporate cronyism, corporate welfare, military-industrial complex, billions to build road we blew up while we have deterioting bridges and roads here in America.

Go to hell DLC

[w4rma]

51. The Washington Times has a bogus headline. Dems ARE in the center.

I think that the message here that Will Marshall is promoting is directly along the lines of Dean's proposals and rhetoric. I don't think that he is fighting Dean. Remember that Will Marshall has been complementing Dean. It's Al From and Ralph Reed who have been critical.

[Mikhale]

52. Bush beat Ann Richards

on a campaign which targeted God, Guns and Gays. That's only one word away from the DLC position above. I wonder when the DLC will ditch gay rights. (Or have they already?)

[mbperrin]

55. Ann Richards beat herself.

She would not allow anyone on her staff or herself to discuss *'s AWOL problem, drug use, drunken driving conviction, shady financial dealings or his connection to out of state financiers.

As a result, he got a soft ride when the state was having some problems (although it would be great to have that set back again now!), and by doing his usual (promising to fix everything with no pain to anyone), he was voted in!

I was personally sickened and still cannot understand how all of these perfectly legitimate issues were not permitted to be brought up!

As my granny once said, standing in the middle of the road just gets you run over!

[Blue_Roses]

93. that was a horrible campaign

bush got dirty and ugly. I got so sick of his ads dissing her alcoholism, when all along, he was hiding a DWI. WHY didn't she fight him dirty back? I often wonder that. Who was that Democrat who endorsed bush...what was his name...can't think of it right off hand. Anyway, that didn't help either.

I was so disappointed that Ann lost and look what happened.

[grannylib]

59. Dems are TOO FAR to the right, that is the problem

There must be a CLEAR alternative to the same old, same old crapola. I think that is why most Dems will be unelectable - they are trying to sound too much like Repugnicans.

We need to be MUCH more focused on the environment, global warming, civil liberties, right to choose, etc. etc. and make some really clear distinctions between R and D - too much the same.

[metisnation]

75. try this one out granny

www.deanforamerica.com
Dean is the real mccoy!

[lifelong_Dem]

80. That makes no sense

If the Dems were too far to the right, the public would not respond to the problem by electing Republicans who are EVEN FARTHER to the right. If the public thought the Dems were too far to the right, the public would respond by electing people who were to the left of the Dems. That isn't happening.

[last_texas_dem]

60. Obviously...

...since moving to the center worked so well in the 2002 elections, right?

I'm sorry... I generally consider myself a pragmatist when it comes to politics, but I honestly don't think the Democratic party can move much further to the right and still maintain any of the basic principles we stand for. There is not room for two conservative, right-wing political parties in America. LIke Zell Miller, I can only wonder if some of these "Democrats" forever urging our party to sell out to the right-wing wouldn't, if they would simply step back and re-assess their beliefs, feel more at home with the Re:puke:s...?

[aquart]

61. Tell the DLC to stuff it in an orifice.

Preferably one involved in a personal bodily function.

[metisnation]

70. how about the middle

finger lol


:argh:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

62. The DLC sees no problem with tax cuts and deficit spending!!!

....because they have moved to the right!!! Yes, we should be moderate if we are going to build a consensus and win, but the DLC's idea of the "center" is like the GOP's, which is to say that the center is "hard right", which is complete B.S from Al From!

[FightinNewDem]

64. This is a flat-out lie

Maybe you can show us where the DLC has ever supported the Bush tax cuts or deficit spending? I doubt it, because the DLC has consistently opposed the Administration's tax policies:

"The Dark Side of Tax Cuts"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251837&kaid=131&subid=192

"Bush's Economic Advisors: Larry, Moe and Curly?"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251710&kaid=131&subid=192

"Just Say No to Tax Cuts"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251647&kaid=131&subid=192

"Taxes: Time for Some Truth In Borrowing"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251569&kaid=131&subid=192

"It's Not Working"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251479&kaid=125&subid=162

"Restoring Fiscal Discipline"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251409&kaid=125&subid=162

"Just Say No to More Tax Cuts"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251374&kaid=131&subid=207


The DLC does favor an intelligent approach to tax relief that encourages economic groth and grants relief to working families:

"New Democrats Lead Charge Against EITC Inquisition"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251888&kaid=131&subid=192

"Expanding the Child Tax Credit: Rewarding Work..."
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251768&kaid=103&subid=110

"Reducing the Payroll Tax Burden"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=3305&kaid=125&subid=163

"Stop Taxing Marriage"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=3304&kaid=137&subid=258

Have your fun trashing the DLC, but remember that facts are stubborn things...

"A Tax Cut Proposal for Economic Growth and Prosperity"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=3105&kaid=125&subid=163

[Fovea]

90. Thank you for the helpful citations.

I would like to ask a favor then.

Could you give me citations on
the DLC and the Iraq war resolution, NAFTA, Globalization,
and the hemmoraging of jobs that we have experienced since
NAFTA. What do they propose to revitalize American industry, or promote good paying, humane jobs.

I am interested in Bush's tax policy of course, but I am also critically interested in their views on education, unversal medical coverage, the environment, and SEC and accounting reform. I would love to hear what they have to say about renewable energy, mandating a Fleet average of 50mpg by 2006, reviving American indstrial productivity and restoring Labor to a place of respect in our government. Many people here are, actually.

Please do give us those links to study, because I will admit my error, if it is an error. Here is a great opportunity to redeem the DLC.

One perception of the DLC is that it is the party that wishes it were the party of Ken Lay. Let's hear what the DLC has to say about the Bush forest plan, ANWAR, SAFETEA, Amtrak, and the PATRIOT act.

Because if you read this thread with care, you will note that taxation
and Bush's budget are only two aspects of systemic problems that Bush's jolly pirates have brought to a critical point.

Asking Democrats to mimic the discredited ideologies and corrupt practices of the Right seems to be foolish beyond belief. To abandon our party's traditional defininition rooted in providing for the general welfare (thats in one of those *old* documents somewhere) in favor of one similar to Barry Golrdwater is absurd. It only menas that the Democratic party admits that only the rich and the wannabe considered rich are important enough to listen to.


I will not belong to that party. I will try to immigrate to a civilized nation before I do that. America is slipping over the edge of the abyss into an Imperialism so deranged that it can nearly get its ass blown off in Baghdad and come back to the states and declare victory at hand. Either we stop Dick and Dubya's fascist adventure, or someone else does it for us. Which is the more preferable? I do not think the DLC has shown sufficient commitment to the traditional base and principles of the party for me to believe that they understand our mutual prediciment. The average Democrat lives in the middle of a disgusting lawless circus, no better than 1936. The DLC lives far above that life, rubbing elbows with the aristocracy in a luxurious bubble where our disasters are their minor setback. Show us otherwise.
Do what they have not. Show us their plan to unmake our latest long national nightmare.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. While I can see the virtues of

lightening up on guns for a while to mute the NRA hysteria and reconnecting with liberal religious groups (NOT to introduce religion into government but to get their help), the "partial birth" abortion vote is just stupid.

Anyway, how can the Dem party move any farther to the right without collapsing into a non-descript gelatinous amalgam with the Republican party?

The only candidates who are not centrists are Sharpton, Mosely-Braun, and Kucinich.

[Jazzgirl]

76. Can I puke??!!??

:puke:

[leesa]

77. "people of faith" you mean like the ones murdering Iraqis?

These people have got to go!

[IndianaGreen]

81. Why doesn't the DLC embrace the Right-to-Life Amendment and...

declare homosexuality a sin, and just fucking get it over with? I am tired of these morons pretending that they are on our side. They are our enemies, and we must defeat them just as surely as we must defeat Bush.

As to guns, I am all in favor of the Left arming itself to the teeth, and the abolition of all federal gun laws. Gawd knows we are going to need them if Bush frightens Americans into voting for him in 2004, as Noam Chomsky has warned.

[Enjolras]

94. Wanted: A Democratic Barry Goldwater

Goldwater famously said "Moderation in the face of tyranny is no virtue, extremism in defense of liberty is no vice." Wacky as he was, in hindsight, he was right. He stuck to his conservative principles and got clobbered in '64, but his party's done pretty well ever since. He, with an assist from Ronnie Reagan, reminded Republicans of their values. They found their way out of the wilderness after decades of wandering, but they couldn't help leaving a trail.

Bill Clinton is the prototype DLC'er, moderate to the core. Not surprisingly, he too is telling the Democratic party to go to Zell. But did the GOP -- or most of the country, for that matter -- ever give him credit for it? For signing welfare reform, NAFTA, the inexplicable "Don't ask, don't tell", and the infamous DoMA, America's version of Tony Blair is still pilloried as a bleeding heart left-wing extremist. I come to bury Clinton, not to praise him. It's time to cut this albatross loose, and peg him as the immoral philanderer he is. I think he's a closet Republican.

I am a moderate, generally, and even I think the the party of the left needs to be the party of the left. Ever notice how much stronger Republicans have gotten since taking that wide, arcing right turn? How come nobody thinks they need to stick to the center to win? The answer had better not be that Americans really have become more conservative, as Limbaugh, in his halucinogenic state of delusion, has been trying to tell us. When people are feeling anxious -- and who isn't these days -- they want strong leadership, not squishy pragmatism. Bush may be hopelessly misguided and a bold-faced liar, but he is not weak. We can't be either.

If a commitment to peace, liberty, equal rights, decent housing and health care for all constitutes extremism, then indeed it is no vice. If putting corporate values over human rights constitutes moderation, then indeed it is no virtue. We need a Democratic Barry Goldwater, now.

[dolstein]

Want a Democratic Barry Goldwater? Dean's your guy!!

But will you be popping your champaign corks when Dean goes down in a Goldwater-style landslide defeat?

[Enjolras]

96. Patience, Dolstein, patience

So far, you are right, Dean is my guy. It could very well be that he does indeed go down in very flames, carrying 3 states or so. I just hope the Dems don't panic and shift further right, leaving us all with a choice between conservatism on the left and fascism on the right.

When and if the landslide defeat happens, Dems need to stay the course, because in the end, people respect people who have the courage of their convictions. Is this not part of the image the GOP has tried hard to project, with great success?

Courage, especially in the face of adversity,is respected. But ideological change takes time, as Goldwater found out. We must be patient. We're in this for the long haul.

And remember, the party in power cannot avoic blame for every little thing that goes wrong. That's the advantage the minority party has to use against the majority party.

[dolstein]

95. Want a Democratic Barry Goldwater? Dean's your guy!!

But will you be popping your champaign corks when Dean goes down in a Goldwater-style landslide defeat?

[sujan]

97. and lieberman will totally destroy bush

bwahahahahaha

[Enjolras]

98. And then what?

And then destroy us in turn?

Joe's a solid supporter of the right to choose, but then, all the candidate's are (even Kucinich -- now). He was a cheerleader for war in Iraq, and he led the charge against a bill that would have required stock options to be counted as expenses. The blood of Enron and Worldcom is as much on his hands as it is on Bush's. Oh, and the largest insurance companies tend to love him, and they know how to express their affection -- in dollars and cents. Why do you suppose they do that?

[joanski01]

100. It seems to be

as I thought. A lot of Dems are in on this "world takeover". I hate the DLC. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them.

[Enjolras]

101. Then please tell us you are NOT a defender of Bill Clinton