Students Drill Wolfowitz on Iraq

[kskiska]

US deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfowitz fended off hecklers at Georgetown University during a speech Thursday.

"We hate your policies!" shouted one young woman, standing ten meters (yards) from Wolfowitz who went pale and clenched his jaw.

"Killing innocents is not the solution but rather the problem," she said.

"I have to (infer) you'd be happier if Saddam Hussein was still in power," he replied dryly before recalling the regime's cruelties.

A lot of innocents were sacrificed and "the alternative would have been far more brutal, there is no question in my mind."

Two other students among the dozen that had lined up to speak to the man held up as the Bush administration mastermind of the Iraq war also attacked US policy there.

A visibly shaken Wolfowitz caught his breath to tell one of them, "You and I should both calm down."

more…
http://www.spacewar.com/2003/031030225430.k6ez6on5.html

[arcane1]

1. ah, closing the day with sweet sweet news...

there is video here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=620434

[otohara]

41. Student Questions Start at 53:20

so you won't have to listen to the same old BS about Iraq.

[diamond14]

2. C-span link....student's questions start at 52 minutes....(video link)

moderators...I already posted this for discussion in GD...but you can leave it whereever you chose...

10/30/2003

wolfo gave a speech today and answered questions from students studying foreign policy, here in DC, at George Washington University


the speech covers about first 52 minutes, and is chilling (covers wolfo explaining how he's all for religious tolerance in OUR country, but in Iraq, he will change all the religious schools to his own liking...that we are in Iraq for 'the long hard slog' and he loves the way rummy wrote that...and how all wolfo's experience with Muslims have been really 'happy' and of course, the 'happy Iraqis' and the glorious policies of our wonderful saintly leader 'bush*'
it is a chilling speech....very, very frightening...lies and lying liars who tell them...wolfo...just back from being missiled out of his luxury hotel in Baghdad...

the best part, starting at about 52 minutes is the questions from the students...at 1 hour and about 3 minutes (1:03:00) the student stated: YOUR policies are deplorable...

--and at 1 hour and about 7 minutes (1:07:00)...student 'and especially when saddam was funded by OUR country, and even after killing the Kurds, the USA increased saddam's funding....


link on this page...top middle, it keeps changing to several different ones, look for wolfowitz....then hit link at the word WATCH, and it should pop up and play in RealOne player...about 1 hour and 17 minutes....student questions start at about 52 minutes, so you can slide directly to that part (which is the GOOD part)...

http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Current_Event&Code=Iraq&ShowVidNum=6&Rot_Cat_CD=US_Iraq&Rot_HT=&Rot_WD=&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=

[mbperrin]

8. I'd like to drill Wolfie

myself!

Say, what is that faint odor when he came in? Could it be...uh...yes it is! It's doodie-pants!!!! Wolfie, change laundries - your little Baghdad experience still smells on ya!

[Dover]

27. Ha! Wolfies's response to the young woman who said his policies

were deplorable, was priceless. He started rambling on about the marshlands and marsh arabs and water buffalo....and how Saddam did this evil deed.

This, from an administration that has absolutely no reverance for the environment OR native peoples, and who has just put into motion the leasing of public lands to their cronies for oil drilling and other exploitative endeavors. This from an administration who embarks on pre-emptive invasions, who condones shooting innocent civilians and members of the press corps, etc., Etc., ETC.

[diamond14]

3. she said 'YOUR policies are deplorable' not 'we hate your policies'

the student was not shouting either...she was at a microphone, and made a very eloquent statement...it certainly was in no way hysterical as implied in this article

you can listen to her statement at about 52 minutes into the wolfo video...and she received a good round of applause...I wouldn't call any of the students questions and remarks 'heckling' either...this is a University, and all the students asked questions that were well thought out and that should be being asked by our press today...

there was no 'heckling' and no yelling...it was only wolfo who was needing to 'calm down'...I did not sense that the student was in any way not calm...the students remarks were calm and well thought out..it was wolfo that freaked...

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. watching and it is chilling

[Atman]

5. Wolfie was frazzled? Can't imagine!

I posted this this morning in the Editorials forum...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=18797

[diamond14]

7. thanks, atman, just heard it on C-span again this evening in DC...

wolfo looked stunned...I'm glad these students are STANDING UP...wolfo probably came over to see how well they'd all enjoy fighting under the new DRAFT for Iraq.....

if only OUR press had the backbone that those student did...our press could take a lesson from those brave students...

wolfo practically called that one student a traitor, for disagreeing with the United States policies to arm saddam and give him the chemicals to gas the Kurds...that was chilling...at about 1 hour and 7 minutes into the video (1:07:00)....

[diamond14]

19. oops, here's atman's cartoon (good job!)...

[flamingyouth]

6. Dear Hecklers: I Love You

These kids are the *real* future of America.

I'd like to "visibly shake" that mofo...

[diamond14]

9. that wasn't heckling...those were University students asking

intelligent questions....something OUR press ought to be doing everyday....

and there wasn't any screaming...all the students stood politely in line at a microphone and asked questions that were thoughtful and well-prepared...someone is trying to paint this as hysteria and screaming and heckling...

but watch it yourself to judge...I was impressed with all the students....it was wolfo who almost lost it...not his usual fawning audience of closed-minded pentagoons....

[DarkPhenyx]

13. In all fairness a few of the students...

...were a bit stressed in their speaking. Their voices were a bit shaky either from nervousness or emotion. Still, I agree that they were far from heckling and they definately weren't shouting.

[diamond14]

16. this is what heckling looks like...Code Pink interrupting rummy's

speech at the National Press Club, Sept. 10, 2003...the GWU students questioning wolfo were not heckling, as you also agree, or screaming...they were politely waiting at the microphone to speak, nobody yelled...there was no yelling (heckling) from the audience...and nobody interrupted his actual speech, although one student briefly slightly interupted wolfo for his major whopping lies, but quickly backed off, as wolfo slammed the poor student into oblivion, wolfo whining and sliming....

here's what REAL heckling and screaming looks like, and this happened DURING a speach (none of bush* minions can go anywhere publically anymore...should be an interesting election campaign)...

[Frances]

10. "Was getting rid of Saddam worth the American lives

that have been lost? You lied when you said Saddam had WMD. You lied when you said that Saddam was a danger to Americans. He was a danger to the Iraqis, and the Iraqis should have been the ones to get rid of him."

These are the words I would have used with Wolfowitz.

[DarkPhenyx]

11. My answer to Wolfowitz saying...

"I infer you'd rather have Saddam in power."

Mr. Wolfowitz. If the choice is having Saddam back in power, or the deaths of thousands of Iraqis, hundreds of American servicemen, the damage done to our economy, the damage done to our reputation in the world, adn the increased danger to Americans as a whole...then yes. I want Saddam Hussain back in power.

Unfortunately there a third option and the Bush Administration was too greedy, too stupid, or too chicken-shit to take it.

[Voltaire99]

45. Yes, the US occupation is worse

I endorse your answer.

As Tariq Ali keenly noted at John Hopkins recently, the worst of Saddam's oppression occurred years ago with full US blessing. The past few years had seen a decline; still despicable, of course, yet livable.

By contrast, the war dead as well as the present anarchy, denial of basic human rights, and daily wonton killings of civilians both by terrorists and US soldiers looks to be too high a price to pay for removing Saddam. Far too high.

[Tommy_Douglas]

50. And even simpler answer to Wolfie's Saddam Question...

It should be apparent to you that the Iraqis people gave you their answer to your brand of freedom this past weekend.

[truth2power]

56. Straw man??

"I infer you'd rather have Saddam in power."
:eyes:

[E_Zapata]

12. Lots of ways for a person to get bombed, eh, wolfie?

Doesn't much matter if it's a grenade or the TRUTH -- it's equally shattering when you are a bottom-dwelling satanic sycophant, eh?

shoot.....they should have been easier on the guy. Don't they know he's all shell-shocked and battle fatigued? PTSD. gee, wonder if his HMO allows more than 3 visits per annum to work this out?

Fuck you Wolfie!

[BlueEyedSon]

14. He sounds like his voice is shaking

like he knows he is lying his ass off. Unless it's an artifact of the realmedia compression algorithm.....

He was introduced very cordially by Robert Gallucci, any one know what Gallucci's politics are?

[UpInArms]

15. this hypocritical bag of

worm feces has not one notion of what "morality" is -

he is a idealogue through and through - what an utter lie

He later said that the Iraq war was "not an ideological, but a moral issue."

"There is not much question in my mind about the morality of having gotten rid of this regime."

:nuke:

[gardenista]

17. When confronted with his lies, he used the usual retort

"If you disagree with me, you obviously are a Saddam loyalist, and a traitor to America."

This is the meme they will go back to over and over again. It's like a resting position that they can return to whenever they're confronted. I think the student who responded by saying that he and the previous questioner had been fighting against aid to Saddam as the US continued to fund him, even after gassing the Kurds, did a good job of chipping away at the standard line.

We *must* come up with a bulletproof response to this PNAC fallback.

I also noticed that when he was confronted, and it did look like they got some good shots in, he fell back to telling a personal story of his own observations of the "good" done by the US in removing Saddam. The Marsh Arabs, always bring up the Marsh Arabs... The truth is that if Poppy had finished the job the first time, the land of the Marsh Arabs would have remained unscathed.

Then, when confronted again, he retorts to the personal story of meeting the Town Council in Najaf (I think it was..) Wow, Wolfie, I am *so* impressed that there is a woman on the Najaf Town Council, I am now renouncing my Democratic Party Membership. I was so wrong. I now understand and see the light. We have sacrificed thousands of Iraqi lives and hundreds of American soldiers to put a woman on the Town Council of Najaf! But wait, weren't there women serving in the Government under Saddam?

So what the HELL are you talking about, you slimy toad?

Ok, I'll stop now, but if I had been at the podium with those students, I am afraid that I would have been classified as one of the hecklers.

[diamond14]

18. wolfo did go all the way back to his trip in July, not his trip last

weekend....which wolfo never brought up...back to that cute little 'happy Iraqi' story somewhere out there...

hey wolfo, what about the 8 missiles launched through your hotel room, the 5 police stations (hard targets) and the Red Cross..hey wolfo, what about OUR soldiers being killed every single day and attacked over 30 times each day....what about the freight train demolished today, the one that was loaded with supplies, tent, food water and guns for OUR troops...no mention...dead silence from wolfo...just 'happy Iraqi" stories oozing out everywhere...

too bad the students were not allowed to reply to wolfo's answers (which is usually the case in a University lecture hall)...

you are 100% correct that we and the Democratic Party and anyone running against the shrub is going to have to have a GOOD answer to that standard slam "well, you must want saddam back in power" or "you are anti-American for opposing U.S. policies"....

interestingly, though, with todays pamplets circulating in Iraq, and the ongoing TET offensive...it may well be saddam who comes back anyways before the election, so nobody will need to futher discuss whether we want saddam back or not, because it looks like bush* policies are guaranteeing saddam's return, and maybe also the return of bin laden too...

[Papa]

51. Ive been thinking about this too, we need an answer

Whenever they fall back on "Who thinks it would be better to have Sadam in power. Who can argue with that?"

We need to say something like (i'm brainstorming/freeflowing here):

Everyone knows Sadam was a devil. The real issue was "what was the best way to deal with him." If an atomic bomb was dropped on Iraq, would we still be saying "who thinks it would be better to have Sadam in power?" NO, we would be saying it was done the wrong way, it was overkill, inhumane, unjust, the wrong way to do it. Does the end justify the means? There's a right way, and a wrong way to achieve the results you want. Bush and Wolfowitz have done it the wrong way.

[diamond14]

52. wasn't it 'dead or alive' ...where is saddam? and osama?

the reTHUGlicans have shifted the idea from killing saddam with OUR 140,000 troops to a simpler, 'removing saddam from power'

'removing saddam from power' actually represents a complete and total failure for bush* stated objective....

so somehow, OUR response should bring back the 'dead or alive, bring them to justice' osama AND saddam....throw back bush* own word at them....

it needs to be short (just like the reTHUGlican short attack phrases) and to the point....

your brainstorming is classic democratic....too complex and long for the average 'sound-bit' American to grasp...so it must be boiled down to just a few words with high impact and repeated every single time the phrase "would you rather saddam have remained in power' pops up....

[Fovea]

58. your soundbite

Yes, if the alternative is going to war with the world.

[pakaya]

20. He is a jerk

dont talk about him in this forum

[diamond14]

24. Welcome to DU, pakaya....are you OK? we heard there was an

earthquake in Japan....we agree that wolfowitz is a jerk...but we must talk about it...it helps us to figure out how to save America from these madmen running OUR country...maybe our friends from Japan will save us...

hope you and your loved ones are doing fine...

welcome and we are glad you are here....

:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[PassingFair]

21. Here's what I ask the Freepers at work:

(Aside from what the students said) How many Iraqi civilians have WE killed? They have no idea...Hell I have no idea. I tell them the best estimates are between 3 and 10 thousand. Yow! Then I ask how many Iraqis Saddam managed to off in a good year. Guess what? They don't know the answer to that either. Then I tell them we're probably about even and I walk away. They don't come back...

[TexasPatriot]

53. That's pretty good

and we haven't been at it as long...
add to that the increased crime, 50% unemployment, etc...
not really a soundbite - but it makes a good point

[neuvocat]

22. Not exactly getting that hero's welcome, I see.

[lindashaw]

23. The standard White House Line during Vietnam was, keep the war

quiet if you can, but if you can't, defend it on the basis of fighting Communism. If anyone doesn't accept that, tell them they're unpatriotic.

It's no different today, just substitute terrorism for Communism, and there you are. Wolfie is a student of history.

[diamond14]

29. the main difference today, is instant news, repeatable on internet

and C-span (which is all new since Vietnam)...video cameras in these guys faces everywhere and over the internet instantly and repeatable is messing up their old Vietnam-style war...for Vietnam, we had mostly rotodial phones, no internet, no faxes, just a couple TV channels, no cable...it was easier to control media IMO....

they just can't keep this quiet like they did in Vietnam, and students are really waking up now to the Vietnam draft that is now pending for them....students know that their asses are ready for the Iraqi meat-grinder....

[metisnation]

30. totally

at this pace the we will have to increase the amount of active members in the military.

[Shadder]

54. Waking up? Perhaps more than we think

My sister-in-law works at a major university in the US and she was telling us last night about whats going on there with the students. If even half of what she said is true things are really going to get interesting.

[Gman]

25. Good... rattled the bastard

"A visibly shaken Wolfowitz caught his breath to tell one of them, "You and I should both calm down."

The son of a bitch almost got his ass blown off Sunday. He had the "deer in the headlights" look Sunday. Then he has to come home and have students blast his ass over Iraq after he almost got his ass blown off by the Iraqis.

No one could have written a better script.

[diamond14]

26. only wolfo needed to calm down...the student looked fine to me...

the student made a real good slam on wolfo, well thought out and well delivered...and wolfo almost blew his stack...although, that would have been fun to watch on C-span....

if only OUR press reporters could ask questions as well as that young student...

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. It was quite funny

to watch Wolfie try hard to justify the at timse contradictory
policies.

I am sure somebody at PNAC is kicking themselves for not bringing
the site down, before a bunch of us downloaded the damn site... hence
why the site is still up

[diamond14]

32. never once mentioned his recent trip to Iraq...last Saturday where

the Iraqis blew him out of his luxury hotel with at least 8 missiles, followed by the loud explosions at five police stations (hard targets) and the Red Cross....dead silence on that whole taxpayer funded trip...the 'happy Iraqi' trip that turned out not so happy...

or today's attack and destruction of a freight train outside Baghdad loaded with supplies for OUR troops...


just random violence, eh wolfo...just a few of those Iraqis who hate us for our freedom...no coordinated attacks in Iraq at all...

IMO, saddam will be back in power soon...and maybe bin laden too...


if only we had a PRESS corp willing to ask questions like those brave students did...

[otohara]

40. People Around The World Look To The US For Leadership - Not Anymore

liar Wolfowitz. You and the rest of PNAC gang has pissed off the world

[diamond14]

46. and that is one of the biggest failures of shrub...it will affect OUR

country for many years...and cost us lots of money...

[cliss]

28. our young people...

our most precious asset. Good for her.

Well, it looks like the "real world" is just in Wolfie's face this week. First, he survives a bombing which he himself put into motion (meaning, his war policies), then he comes back to the Good Ole US of A, only to get criticised by a young lady.

Maybe he was expecting adulation and praise, after all he did have a scary day.

May the light of day shine on all your deeds, each and every day, Paul Wolfowitz.

[calimary]

55. Yes, he just can't get over that they're not throwing flowers at him.

Not over there. Not even back here. Tough tooties, Wolfie. And how DID you like your first face-to-face combat experience, anyway?

[IndianaGreen]

33. Al-Jazeera: Antiwar hecklers ruffle Bush hawk

Antiwar hecklers ruffle Bush hawk

Friday 31 October 2003, 3:38 Makka Time, 0:38 GMT

Two other students among the dozen that had lined up to speak to the man held up as the Bush administration mastermind of the Iraq war also attacked US policy there.

A visibly shaken Wolfowitz caught his breath to tell one of them, "You and I should both calm down."
He later said that the Iraq war was "not an ideological, but a moral issue."

"There is not much question in my mind about the morality of having gotten rid of this regime."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F9450AB1-1CD2-41B5-ADD2-6B88C2F7442D.htm

[diamond14]

34. oh my, they should have wrote "ruffle bush* CHICKEN-hawk"

but it was close....I guess they need to keep it respectful or shrub will blow them off the face of this earth....

[CivilRightsNow]

35. Direct link to the video

http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen//archive/iraq/iraq103003_wolf.rm


Voila.

[Myra]

36. Whether they're heckling

Or asking questions via microphone, I'm
grateful to those audience members and hope
for more.

[bluestateguy]

37. Wolfojizz

He suggested that the future of the Iraqi people rested upon the question of former Texas Governor George W. Bush's election next year, implying that a Democratic president would just withdraw all the troops on Inauguration Day. This is inaccurate and very misleading. The only candidates who have called for absolute withdrawl--and turning Iraq over to UN supervision--are Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton, two candidates with almost no chance to win the nomination. Even anti-war Howard Dean has refused to support a substantial withdrawl of troops.

[Kool Kitty]

38. I thought that was particularly

strange-he said that the Iraqi people themselves are afraid that Bush won't get elected, and that their future well-being relies upon him getting in. He said that he got this from the people he talked to in Iraq. I think he's full of shit.

[Kool Kitty]

39. Actually, if anyone is still up,

this is being shown again on C-SPAN right now, 1:51 AM EST. It's worth a look, that's for sure.

[pinniped]

42. Just caught that infer Sadaam was still in power remark.

That POS is a disgusting excuse for a supposed human being. Though I still have my doubts as to what species this clown is.

Funny how this ahole tries to appear compassionate. Nice try jerkoff.

Who are the people clapping for this devil? Plants in the audience?

Watching that butcher on tv makes my stomach turn.

But that one student was correct, these aholes will be defeated next year.

[Judi Lynn]

43. At the end of the speech, Wolfowitz claimed people in Iraq

are scared to death that Bush will not be re-elected. He tried to cover up this wicked, crude trick by saying that in the past, our country has always followed the same path, no matter which party was in power, but he made sure he went right back to his earlier claim, and emphasized that truly the Iraqii people are terrified of what will happen to Iraq if Bush is NOT re-elected.

This was possibly the most blatant, most horrendous lie I have EVER seen anyone try to pull off in front of an audience.

[Paschall]

44. Of course the Iraqis are terrified...

...of what will happen to Iraq if Bush is NOT re-elected. Those are the Iraqis Wolfowitz talked to: the goon Chalabi and other US-installed Iraqi exiles.

Chalabi has good reason to be terrified. A Dem president could hand him over to Jordanian authorities to serve his 1992 sentence to 22 years' hard labor for embezzlement, fraud and currency-trading irregularities as chairman of Petra Bank. Jordanian deputies began seeking his extradition from Iraq in August.

[lumpy]

57. Thanks for posting a link to background on Chalibi, Paschall

Everyone should bother to get this info. The connection to Wolfowitz and Perle is so evident and explains just why Wolfowitz is so eager that Bush stays in office. After all these guys are part of the grand scheme to turn the Mid-East on end. The invasion of Iraq is not the end of it.

[Fleshdancer]

47. wow

I wonder how many pairs of pants wolfowitz has pissed in over the past couple of weeks.

[Dover]

48. I thought one of the most disturbing things was when Wolfie said

that regardless of partisan issues, or who is in the White House, these policies would and should continue. He gave, as an example, the ongoing policies of the Cold War that was consistant over the years regardless of small partisan differences and changing administrations. He said this in response to a student who informed him that he and his administration were history in 2004.

I find that very disturbing if true. Particularly at a time when the lines between parties seem to be blurred by a right leaning group of Dems who voted FOR the Iraqi War, FOR the Patriot Act, and FOR all requests by Bushco for monetary support of the military/war.

[Dover]

49. Got a big laugh when Wolfie suggested that if Palestinians used

the techniques of Gandhi things would change very quickly!!

Unbelievable. Can you imagine the current U.S. regime taking that advice?