Horse Slaughter to Continue Despite Action

[Rose Siding]

WASHINGTON Feb 7, 2006 (AP)— Horse slaughter for meat will continue in the United States, despite votes in Congress to halt the practice, the Agriculture Department announced Tuesday.

American horse meat is sold mostly for human consumption in Europe and Asia, although some goes to U.S. zoos.

Congress didn't ban horse slaughter outright. Instead, lawmakers used a tactic that is common in spending legislation. Horses must pass inspection by department veterinarians before they are slaughtered, so lawmakers voted to yank the salaries and expenses of those inspectors.

Department officials maintain the law requires inspections regardless. They announced Tuesday they will pay for live horse inspections by charging fees to slaughter plants.

Rep. John Sweeney, R-N.Y., denounced the decision, saying that "commerce and greed have ruled the day."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1589760&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[MercutioATC]

1. What's the issue with slaughtering horses for meat?

No different than chickens, pigs or cows, IMO.

[sui generis]

2. oh yeah, and dogs and cats

and bald eagles yum.

It's only fitting that we should eat EVERYTHING just because we can. And we're clearly starving



In fact I'm so hungry I could eat at Arby's. Hell I could EAT Arby.

[MercutioATC]

4. In certain places in the world, yes.

If somebody has an issue with killing ANY animal for meat, that's fine...but I don't see why eating a horse is any more objectionable than eating a cow.

If somebody DOESN'T have an issue with eating meat, I don't understand the objection at all.

[Critters2]

6. Well, I do have an issue

with killing any animal for meat. Horses live hard lives, even around people who claim to love them (put a piece of metal in your mouth and let someone drag you around by it--tell me how that feels). Anymore cruelty is just that much worse. For any animal.

[MercutioATC]

10. I respect that, however...

...domestic chickens (or cows or pigs) don't lead such great lives, either. I just don't understand why using horses for their meat is any more objectionable than using cows.

[CottonBear]

15. Mnay people sell horses at auction and have no idea that the buyer

intends to sell the horse for slaughter and the buyer doesn't indicate that they intenmd to slaughter the horses.

The mustang adoption program rules were changed by Republicans to allow horrible people to adopt the horses and then immediately sell them for slaughter. It used to be that one could not sell the horse for one year after adoption and the adoptive owners were screened to eleiminate the evil people who would killt h horses.

[MercutioATC]

16. That sounds like an awareness issue...and it's collateral.

The issue isn't whether people know what happens when they sell a horse at auction or how long you have to wait to slaughter a horse. It's using horses for meat.

Again, I don't see how horses and cows differ in this circumstance.

[CottonBear]

23. Have you ever had to be witha dying pet? Would you slaughter your dog?

I have had to put down a citically ill horse who could not be saved by surgery or medicine (severe cloic impaction and ruptured colon.)
It was a humane way to die. We buried him. Vet schools cremate the bodies of dead animals when possible.

[MercutioATC]

26. That's an emotional response, not a logical one.

Animals are animals. If you don't want to eat any of them, great. Otherwise, I don't see the distinction.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

32. progressive agenda is not in favor of exploitation for greedy motives

get it right (or should I say left)---
I've followed your defense of horse killing and feel you may be mis-informed a bit.


The anti-environmental, anti-animal rights attitude is not progressive and does not represent the feeling of the majority of DU posters.

I don't care if the 5 or 6 pro- exploitation/pro-greed posters flood each discussion...the fact remains-->
Progressives, in principle, have overall compassion for those who are less able to defend themselves-
-whether it be minorities and civil rights , Third World Sweat shops, sex trade, disregarding the well-being
of the environment, the killing of protected species for money (like seals whales), etc.,

The Dem agenda is NOT "if it feels good do it" and "leave me the hell alone already"!
It is a bit more than maintaining freedom from control over our personal actions...like pot smoking, whacking off to porn, etc.,
The prevailing opinion would indicate that it is about compassion for those who are less able to defend themselves and minorities --and this includes animals/environment.


If you disagree with progressive principles, members of the DU discussion group will likely confront you each time ...

JSYK:
The progressives aren't going to change their tune even if 5 or 6 pro-exploit/greed posters raid every topic!

[MercutioATC]

34. Plenty of progressives eat meat.

My opinion is that if you eat meat, it's silly to try to argue that people shouldn't eat meat from "cute" animals from an ethical or logical standpoint.

If you don't eat meat (and think that nobody should) it's still silly to get worked up about "cute" animals any more than you get worked up about cows and pigs.

...just my opinion.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

39. O.K., WHY is it wrong to eat horses?

It's not the "cute factor". What is it?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

43. I'm asking somebody to explain the inconsistency.

Care to try?

What "basic shit" should I know?

[bread_and_roses]

61. The basics are referred to in posts 45, 46, and #2 in post 29.

It has nothing to do with cute or sentimentality.

The issues, as I understand them, are:

Transport: as noted in above posts, horses are frequently transported in a manner that causes unneccessary suffering and injury.

Method of slaughter: I've read that the method of slaughter is inhumane on several counts, including sometimes still-living horses strung up by one of those delicate legs. I seriously hope this is not true.

Horses are raised as companion animals, not as a food "product." This is not an arguement from a sentimental stance but from a cruelty stance. They have not been bred to be stupid and placid, they are highly attuned to their environment, still have their "wild" sense of danger and a highly active "flight" response.

There are other, and I think legitimate issues with both wild Mustangs and with TBs, but the above apply to any horse.

[mongo]

69. All animals are still alive

when they are "strung up" -- but they are rendered unconscious first.

The heart needs to be pumping so that the animal will bleed out properly and not taint the meat.

Pigs are way more intelligent than horses -- should we not raise pigs as livestock either?

[bread_and_roses]

74. The word I should have used was "conscious"

My understanding is that the reason the method is so inhumane is that - like the transport - the slaughter processes are designed for cows. Cows, for one thing, have lower set heads (and thus eyes). There are reports of horses being so terrified by the time they are in the "kill pen" that they are shaking uncontrollably and falling down from terror (again, I hope this is not an accurate representation, but it does not seem impossible to me). Horses, being differently constructed physically and tempermentally (again, not bred for docility) are often struck repeatedly with the captive bolt because the design does not facilitate a successful first strike. This in and of itself is cruel (repetition - evidently, properly used the captive bolt can be a humane method), but worse is the accusation that in a significant number of instances the horse is NOT rendered fully unconscious before being "strung up" and processed.

I think it is difficult to say that horses are less intellegent than pigs, or vice-versa, but certainly pigs intended for slaughter are not raised by humans as companions and taught to respond to human commands. As horses are a herd animal, I think it entirely reasonable and not at all anthropormorphic to postulate that just as horses living in a herd will "read" other horses, so to do horses whose "herd" is human learn to "read" humans. This would make the processes of slaughter far more frightening for a horse than for a cow or a pig that never lived closely with humans. And in the case of race horses, for instance, this is an animal bred and trained to respond with lightning speed to human commands and to the actions of other horses. To imagine that there is any way that the processes of a slaughterhouse could me made "humane" for an animal so alert and responsive requires, I think, a stretch of imagination that I, for one, find impossible.

Regarding the transport of horses to slaughter nowhere have I read even the ghost of a rebuttal that this is an inhumane process during which horses are often seriously injured due to the inappropriate design and length of passage.

None of which even addresses whether or not there are ethical issues in raising an animal as a companion, teaching it to trust and obey humans, and then consigning it to a frightening and quite possibly gruesomely tortured death - for profit.

[MercutioATC]

70. I understand, but those apply to other animals, too.

Chickens are caged inhumanely.

Cows are killed inhumanely.

The meat industry is "cruel" regardless of what's being slaughtered.

[bread_and_roses]

77. Inhumane treatment during raising or slaughter is unethical

for food animals.

I do not, btw, oppose meat eating or think that it is inherently wrong to raise and kill animals for food, provided it is done humanely. And I am well aware that it is not, generally, though it is possible now in many locals to buy meat that is supposedly from animals raised and killed in humane ways. Perhaps such claims are lies, and it is impossible to raise and kill animals for food without cruelty, but for the purposes of this discussion I am presuming that it is, and that the inhumane treatment is the result of greed for profit.

The fact that many food animals are raised and slaghtered inhumanely is not a justification for the inhumane treatment of horses at slaughter, any more than the fact that many humans around the world are oppressed is a justification for more oppression.

Nor does it justify using transport and slaughter processes designed for a completely different animal - a cow - to transport and slaughter horses, since the very different size, conformation, and temperment of horses render even the designs intended to minimize suffering useless.

Horses, however, are not bred or raised for food in this country. They are bred and raised as companion animals. My understanding is that we have laws that protect dogs from being sold for meat to countries where dog is commonly eaten. Why do not horses have the same protection? Nor are chickens or pigs intended for slaughter normally raised with and taught to respond to humans, a distinction that many of us think adds a different ethical question to horse slaughter.

US consumers don't eat horse meat, don't seem to want to eat horse meat, and when polled seem, from what I've read, to oppose the slaughter of horses here for consumption in other Countries.

[hack89]

47. Where do we get the manual..

or are we simply to model ourselves after you? :eyes: Who made you the model progressive?

[Critters2]

50. Actually,

I think the consistency issue is relevant. If it's okay to eat cows, why not horses? Not much of an issue for me, since I don't eat either. But for those who do, it seems inconsistent to get all hacked off about horse slaughter but not about hog or cow slaughter.

I'm just sayin'...

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

53. you are absoutely right !

and I AGREE ALL THE WAY ON THAT ONE!
so now I'm supposed to say that all animals' lives should be respected, and that killing any of them is immorral-

--->then that's bound to attract a thick and juicy meat burger eater or two to join in--
*****so predictable

I'm not going to say it !

In will say this though:
if muscle tissue is so"tasty", why not eat pancreas and gall bladder, mucous membranes, bile, and intesinal tissue?
...oh and don't forget tha eyeballs!...oh, and the brains and spinal cords !! -if you season it up just right it would probably taste fairly similar to muscle fiber--
It's from the same animal isn't it?


peace!

[MsMagnificent]

86. Workers, pets, and companions

Is the difference between cows and horses.
At least here in the United States. The only place I've seen any type of bovine being put to use in the fields is in East Asia, usually in the rice fields... and they are not, or primarily not, milk producers.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

52. there ya go-- those five or six of you that are anti-enviro/pro greed

one day you may change .... if you hang around a while-

[MercutioATC]

89. No, we just don't get emotionally overwhelmed.

How is eating meat "anti-enviro"?

[mongo]

58. And why are you here

This is Democratic Underground not Left Fascist Underground.

[sui generis]

24. hey protein is protein

we should be farm raising gorillas and eating them too but we don't. If we could clone brainless humans, we could raise them for meat too, and the original taboos and prohibitions against HannibalLecterism would be moot anyway.

But we don't and I doubt we will. We have our irrational sentimental "values", however illogical they are, and it's just one of those things that horseflesh eaters better become well accommodated with, just as the rest of us understand that there are people who will eat anything that moves just because they can.

Not just an awareness issue on your first point:

Most people who take care of a horse for a year aren't typically going to slaughter it. The fact is that those laws are being circumvented by evil fucks who don't give a shit about anything except exploiting a niche market and bending the laws every which way they can to do so.

[MercutioATC]

27. As I said, I exempt endangered species as an environmental issue.

Protein IS protein. Killing a horse to get it is no more objectionable than killing a cow, IMO.

Protecting "cute" animals has never made sense to me.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

35. you have competely missed the point !!

and no one is in agreement with you here

[MercutioATC]

37. Not "missed". I just disagree.

...and there are a few here who also disagree.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

42. That's the problem with stating absolutes...you're usually wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2091857&mesg_id=2091890

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2091857#2091899

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2091857#2091954

[Critters2]

49. Again

I don't eat any of 'em.

[MercutioATC]

59. Fair enough.

I don't see you applying any double standard. I can respect that.

[MsMagnificent]

67. Quite simply

they are PETS and WORKERS THAT SERVE US, requiring very little in return!

The animals that serve us and work for us their entire lives --including the Premarin mares and their foals, who are subject to HORRIBLE conditions BTW, as they serve our medical needs-- are deserving, in any truly MORAL society, to be at least adequately if not well cared for and safe in their old age, retirement or injury. It is no different, perhaps worse because many are not mere companions or pets but work and work very hard (and often badly abused) their entire lives for the benefit of humans, than to take Fido when he is old and butchering him FOR PROFIT to feed the family, the younger family pets, or unknown strangers across the sea.

Surely they deserve better treatment than that for their labors.

The horrors and abuse of the slaughterhouse and the journey to the slaughter auction --and that includes the barbaric treatment they receive long before the terrible bolt is driven into their brain, of which they ARE long preaware of, this helpless destiny-- is all too real and ubiquitous.

And I know this first hand, as I rescue horses from the slaughter auctions in Ohio and Western PA.
Well over 10% are so beaten and abused they do not even survive the auction to be trucked to their terrible destination. The great majority at these auctions are literally starved by these "Moral 'Muricans'".


If you care about profits over misery, maltreatment and abuse so very much over doing what is right and honorable may I suggest you are in the wrong political party -- it is their "Compassion" with their very uncaring hands and immoral deeds that is the definition of the treatment our domestic servants receive.

However, I believe you do indeed have a heart -- since you're so opinionated yet ignorant of the plight and conditions of these animals, may I suggest you visit your local kill auction.
I would be very interested in your opinion after you observe the pure misery, fear, and helplessness of these our servants and companions.

[MercutioATC]

72. Another compelling emotional response...

...it's still not logical or germaine to the issue.

No livestock lead "happy lives". That's the way it is. Desiring to change that may be a noble cause, but it's not an "ethical" issue unless you apply your efforts to ALL animals.

By the way, I grew up on a dairy farm. I know how these things work...I'm hardly "ignorant" of the process.

[MsMagnificent]

87. Morals do not determine Ethics?

Fascinating! Do go on...

[MercutioATC]

88. Emotional responses and ethics are different things.

Killing cute horsies may elicit an emotional response, but how it that response ethical unless it also results from killing pigs and chickens?

There are people (you may be one) who are consistent and find the killing of any animal unacceptable. That position I can respect. Unless this is the case, however, how is it "ethical" to eat meat or use animal products while taking issue with slaughtering horses for meat?

[Warpy]

11. They still eat dog on the rez

and you can sure tell the difference between meat animals and pets.

If you don't want to dine on dogs or horses, then don't. Just don't try to dictate those preferences to other people. They will resent you for it.

Like it or not, animals that make some people wax sentimental are just another source of protein for others.

This is silly. I'd rather see the sentimental types get together and fight for humane living conditions for all meat animals and humane slaughter for all meat animals.

[sui generis]

21. I agree with you to a point

Your argument could also apply to eating humans though.

Many horses are old pets though, as any farmer can tell you. Like it or not, animals DO make people wax sentimental. Although I am a carnivore, I would rather not eat an intelligent animal, and if we start growing meat in vats some day I'll be perfectly happy with that.

[Critters2]

51. Hogs

are as intelligent, trainable, and social as dogs.

Gonna stop eatin' 'em now?

[sui generis]

54. oh you so funny

there is nothing I won't eat in a pinch, including you my friend. Stay away from the Donner Pass if you're on vacation with me.

I just said I don't like the idea. If we could make beef or pork or lamb out of slug meat I'd be buying slug meat. But if we were on a desert island and I had to choose between your intelligence, trainability and social company or a nice hot meal, you'd probably do well to go on a different three hour cruise.

On the plus side, you wouldn't be the first thing on the menu.

[MsMagnificent]

68. I never touch pork

& NOT for any religious reason!

THey may not be near as cute as a Golden Retriever, but due to their great intelligence and truly delightful personalities I have sworn off any pork product forever.

As delicious as the meat was, once you understand these magnificent (and NOT dirty!) animals, it becomes an impossibility to use them in that way.

At least for my household and family...

[mongo]

25. You forgot Bambi and Thumper

Thay are just TOO cute to eat :sarcasm:

[Lance_Boyle]

5. some animals are more equal than others

favoritism towards one variety of meat over others is really a silly thing for our congresscritters to be getting all worked up about.

[MercutioATC]

7. Agreed.

I understand and respect that some people don't believe that ANY animal should be slaughtered for food but singling out certain animals seems silly, however you look at it.

(I'll exclude endangered species from that statement)

[Solon]

79. Humans aren't endangered, and I'm not being ridiculous either...

Many tribes around the world practice cannibalism in one form or another, usually harmless, not eating enemies killed but eating family members to honor them after natural death, etc. The thing about eating animals, for the non-discriminatory meat-eater, at least, is that to be consistant he would have to put humans on the menu(not personally mind you, I don't begrudge people who eat shrimp or lobster as an example just because I can't stand the taste).

[Lance_Boyle]

81. I do not believe any of those tribes still practice ritual cannibalism.

I recall hearing about a tribe somewhere around New Guinea that in the not-too-distant past practiced the ritual cannibalization of deceased family members, but the practice has fallen out of favor. I have not heard of any modern tribes continuing this practice, and certainly not "many tribes."

[CottonBear]

9. US people don't eat horse meat.

The Europeans can slaughter their own horses.

The real issue is that unadopted wild mustangs, unsucessful racehorses and horses sold at auction (as companion animals) are slaughtered. :(

[MercutioATC]

12. Should we also stop grain exports to Europe?

They're both foodstuffs.

That aside, dairy cows that can't be bred are sent to slaughter every day. How is that less objectionable?

[CottonBear]

14. We eat cows. We don't eat horses, donkeys, dogs or cats.

Horses that are very infirm, ill or injured should be humanely euthanized.

[MercutioATC]

18. Should old cows and chickens be humanely euthanized?

(instead of being eaten)

You're speaking of custom (certain societies eat certain animals). You're not addressing the underlying issue.

Is it O.K. for Europeans to eat horses?

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

33. why are you defending animal exploitation? Dems are PRO ENVIRONMENT !

and you are defending a point of view with sarcastic comments that are with odds with that.

[MercutioATC]

36. Is eating meat "animal exploitation"?

If it IS, then ALL animals should engender this type of outrage, not just "cute" animals like horses.

If it's NOT, then meat is meat. Why make a distinction because the animal is "cute"?

[LeftyMom]

73. See, this is the problem with flesh consumption

Either one engages in wishy-washy arguments based on animals we like and animals we don't, one excuses the exploitation and consumption of all animals, no matter how much the human heart cries out against it, or one chooses to forego the eating of flesh.

The third option makes the most sense to me.

[MercutioATC]

78. Fair enough...that's consistent and I can respect that.

:)

[sasha031]

3. this is so horrible

I signed many petitions as millions of others, the cruelty and insanity of it all:cry:

[Critters2]

8. From a political POV

this is just one more example of the Executive branch flipping a bird at the Legislative. Congress voted to stop this. It should stop, regardless of what the USDA wants.

[Rose Siding]

19. Congress passed one of those quaint "laws", but we're in bush country now.

:(

[Critters2]

48. My bad

I keep forgetting. Legislative branch--bad. Executive branch--good.

Bad Critters, bad!!

:spank:

[CottonBear]

13. The terrified horses are clubbed over the head with a sledgehammer

after being driven in inhumane conditions in unsafe trailers with no food, hay or water to the slaughterhouses. They sustain horrible injuries to their delicate and vulnerable legs and hooves while in unsafe transport.
:cry:

[pinniped]

17. So, I guess these sicks fucks are still slaughtering the wild horses...

that roam Nevada and other states?

After reading this, from October 2005:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/sun/2005/oct/27/519571523.html?wild%20horses

Legislation that could protect wild horses from slaughter sales is kept intact

A congressional committee late Wednesday afternoon kept intact a controversial measure that cripples slaughterhouses that render meat from America's federally protected wild horses.
----

I'm sure it's ths same 3 plants and these are wild horses.

It was sure nice of ABC to state where the horses came from, or didn't.

[CBGLuthier]

20. I guess my wife and sisters-in-law are just scum then

My wife ate horse meat while visiting her sisters in Switzerland and France. No big deal, just a lean protein source.

If people want to whine about just one meat source they should really whine about pigs. They are by far the most intelligent of the slaughter animals.

[CottonBear]

22. No one is calling Europeans or your family "scum."

The issue at hand is since Americans don't eat horse meat in the US should we sell to Europe and Asia when they have plenty of horses and different cultural mores and gastronomic traditions there?

[mongo]

28. Most horse meat goes into pet food

What did you think was in that can of "prime entree" anyway?

[CottonBear]

31. I don't feed my cats commercial canned food. n/t

[UnseenUndergrad]

29. My problems with it

1. A lot of the horses shipped to slaughter have had more steroids, tranquilizers and misc. drugs put into them than an entire olympic team.

2. Horses were originally bred to have superior senses and reflexes sas the mounts of nobility, unlike cattle who could be "slow witted" even if they were pulling a plow. If horse meat really has a market, they can start breeding them for it: dull their nerves and fatten them up.

3. Like someone else said, these animals are usually old, drugged up, in poor health or used up premarin mares. Not quality eating if you catch my drift.

[CottonBear]

30. Horses are not raised or fed as food animals & have been fed & injected

with products not allowed for use in food grade animals. In fact, you have no idea what they have in their flesh.

These animals are raised for food and are fed and injected with substances "NOT for use in animals for human consumption" according to the labels and warnings.

I know. I have a horse. I know how many show horses and race horses are injected with (illegal - that's another probelm)substances that are nor allowed to be used in food animals.

Thank you for you input.

[plasticsundance]

45. Here are some facts on horses slaughtered

FACTS ABOUT HORSES SLAUGHTERED FOR MEAT CONSUMPTION

[CottonBear]

62. Edit my post: horses NOT raised for food therefore not subject to USDA

regulations regarding feed, supplements, vaccinations and other injected substances such as steroids, hormones and other drugs which are not safe for meat for human consumption.

Commercial cattle, sheep, swine, chickens and goats are subject to strict USDA regulations and standards.

Would you really want to eat an domestic animal (not a wild, free range animal like a deer) that you have no idea what or how it has been raised and fed?

Horses are not raised as food animals.

[Odin2005]

44. This sounds like the same reaction...

...People get when they hear about East Asians eating dogs. :eyes:

[plasticsundance]

46. The Lack of Compassion never ceases to appall me

In addition to the incredible ignorance when it comes to animal cruelty:

How do unwanted, surplus horses end up at slaughterhouses?

Most horses destined for slaughter are sold at livestock auctions or sales. The cruelty of horse slaughter is not limited to the act of killing the animals. Horses bound for slaughter are shipped, frequently for long distances, in a manner that fails to accommodate their unique temperaments. They are usually not rested, fed, or watered during travel. Economics, not humane considerations, dictate the conditions, including crowding as many horses into trucks as possible.

Often, terrified horses and ponies are crammed together and transported to slaughter in double-deck trucks designed for cattle and pigs. The truck ceilings are so low that the horses are not able to hold their heads in a normal, balanced position. Inappropriate floor surfaces lead to slips and falls, and sometimes even trampling. Some horses arrive at the slaughterhouse seriously injured or dead. Although transportation accidents have largely escaped public scrutiny, several tragic incidents involving collapsed upper floors and overturned double-deckers have caused human fatalities, as well as suffering and death for the horses.

Get the Facts on Horse Slaughter

[cynatnite]

55. Food is food...

:shrug:

[Kellanved]

80. And horse is good eating

I don't get the problem.
:shrug:

[cornermouse]

56. Question. Why do we bother to have a Congress?

Clearly they aren't earning their salaries or benefits. Heck, if Bush dissolves Congress, think of how much more money he could spend on his little war...

[Critters2]

57. Now you're thinkin'

like a REAL Amurkin!!!

:patriot:

[kryckis]

60. Re: equality in animals

I can live with eating an animal that has been breed for the sole purpose of being eaten. He will be meat anyway.

I could not live with eating someone's pet. Horses are generally pet animals. I find the thought disgusting. I don't care if it makes me a hypocrite.

[CottonBear]

63. Thank you for making that point. Horse are pets. Welcome to DU kryckis!

:hi: I own a horse and have no plans to eat her. I understand that other cultures eat horse meat and I can accept that. However, in the US it is not acceptable.

We have lively discussions here and a wide variety of opinion. Keep posting! Glad to have you here with ALL of us! :)

[kryckis]

64. Thank you!

I have a horse too. :) The fascination for horse meat in Europe troubles me alot. There have been efforts to prevent horses here in Sweden from having to face slaughter in Italy and such, but it's difficult. They come up here and buy unwanted horses cheap and transport them all the way to the slaughter houses on the continent. It's awful.

These are our friends. They've been our companions since the beginning. They deserve better.

[CottonBear]

65. Hi fellow equestrian! Are you Swedish?

The Swedish royal family have wonderful carriage horses! I love watching them pull the beautiful carriages in pictures of royal events! Princesss Madeleine rides hunter-jumpers! I have an Oldenburg filly named Cotton (German Warmblood breed.) What kind of horse do you have? Do you ride for pleasure or do you show or drive a carriage? My vet friend has been to Sweden and he loved it there! He said it was so beautiful and the people were wonderful and the food was great!

Horses enabled mankind to become so much more than we were before the noble equine allowed us to ride him and allowed us to have him pull our carts and carriages and plows. So many horses gave their lives in war in Europe.

edit: spelling and clarity.

[kryckis]

66. Yes, I'm Swedish

I share a horse with my best friend, it's a cross between Connemara and something else. Heh. I always forget. We haven't started any competing yet. The goal is show jumping hopefully, but she has terrible mood swings and is difficult to discipline. :)
It's quite nice here to ride, especially in the summer as we have a lot of nature and pretty much all land is open. The winter is abhorrent though, I live in the northern part.

[CottonBear]

71. Wonderful breed! I'm laughing because you, a Swede, has an Irish horse,

I'm an American with a German horse and my German friend (who lives here in the US now) had American Paint horses in Germany!

I can't ride my filly yet. She's only 2 1/2 years old now. I hope to do the hunter and dressage classes at shows.

I work with a natural horsemanship trainer who has taught me much about horse behavior. You and your mare can have a good relationship. I love mares. A good mare is wonderful, if not somewhat moody at times!

My filly and I have been together since she was born so we understand each other and I am the Alpha mare (lead/head mare) in our hers of 2. She bosses the Holsteiner gelding who is her pasturemate! Cotton is the top horse in their herd of 2 horses!

Winter here in the Southeastern US is not too bad at all. The worst weather is when it's wet and really cold and raining but not cold enough to snow. Rotton weather. :( Cotton has sheets and blankets to protect her from the cold, wet weather. tonight is cold (just below freezing) but not windy and it is not raining. She has a nice coat of thick fur so she's fine without a blanket tonight. She has 2 flakes of Bermuda hay and a full tummy of grain. She is a good girl.

If you donate to DU (even jsut $5 US dollars) you can post in the Pets forums and post pictures of your mare! We have many DU horse lovers and owners!

I attended a Santa Lucia celebration recently and ate so much good Swedish food!

Pecae and good luck with your mare! Cotton Bear and Cotton the Filly!

[Javaman]

84. Actually, dogs have been our companions since the "beginning"...

recent findings of the early humans in Africa and Asia have shown that humans and canines have a very long history together.

The domestication of Horses and cattle in general came much much later.

But why split hairs.

People in parts of the world eat dogs too.

To me, all this arguing is based on emotion. Humans eat anything that can be cooked (even somethings not cooked). Period. Right or wrong it's not what we decide but what is regarded at a social norm. And like anything social norms change. However, currently, we as Americans, by and large, accept the fact that eating horses and dogs, in general, isn't socially accepted.

However, as in Europe and parts of Asia it is socially accepted.

Most social patterns usually develop out of a need at some point in it's history. So more than likely, eating horses was accepted because the raising of cattle proved costly, either in time, space, feeding, availability or yet another unknown factor. This same argument goes with the eating of dogs and cats in Asia.

While we here in the states have a variety of reasons not to eat these animals, we still eat cows, pigs, chicken and fish. In other parts of the world, some of these same animals that we deem eatable are looked upon as unclean, unsafe and odd to eat.

All that aside, what bothers me about this issue isn't the eating of the horse, it is the open killing of wild horses. I object to it not for humanitarian reasons per say, although that plays a roll, but I object, more so, for historical reasons. The wild Mustang is an American symbol. To me, it ranks right up there with the bald eagle. The open hunting and killing of the incredible creature is what galls me. It's one more thing that shows me, how little we really regard nature, living creatures and this country.

As we move forward as a civilization, we take giant steps back in our humanity.

[judaspriestess]

75. what about Buffalo and Ostrich

I'm a meat eater and I seriously have a problem being one, its reasons like this that just turn my stomach. I hope I stop one day.

[Odin2005]

85. I would have no prblem eating bison...

bison for food are raised, not hunted, if that's what you're worrying about.

[Endangered Specie]

76. Francis Ford Coppola would approve of this

:evilgrin:

[MercutioATC]

82. Actually, horse might go well with a Coppola Diamond Series Zinfandel.

...just sayin'...

:evilgrin:

[sadiesworld]

83. Fuckwads.

My poor mom will be so distressed (of course, she'll probably never know in that our so-called liberal newspaper won't report it and I don't have the heart to tell her).