CNNHN: Lionel Tate pleads guilty, 10-30 yr agreed-to sentence

[UCLA02]

For robbery of a pizza delivery man.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/01/lionel.tate.ap/index.html

.snip.

Lionel Tate, once the youngest person in modern U.S. history sentenced to life behind bars, faces 10 to 30 years in prison after pleading guilty Wednesday to the armed robbery of a pizza delivery man.

.end snip.


Hope this qualifies as LBN. Mods, feel free to chastise me and move it to GD or something.

[napi21]

1. Just heard it on CNN. He hasn't been sentenced yet, but

could get from 10 to 35 years. The problem is, he was on probation when he robbed the pizza delivery guy, and he used a knife. That was a voilation of his parole and I guess because he used a weapon the penalty is worse.

All the reporters were saying how said this case is, because Tate was given a second chance after that first incident with the little girl ahd he blew it!

[UCLA02]

2. I caught that, edited post.

Musta heard it wrong the first time (of course it wouldn't be because they reported it wrong, right?) ;-)

Mea culpa...

Still quite a sad story, all around.

[jarab]

5. It's up on "News Alert" at cnn.com ....

"Lionel Tate, once youngest person in modern U.S. history to be sentenced to life in prison, agrees to plead guilty to armed robbery of pizza delivery man."

...O...

[OKNancy]

3. If you post a link soon

we won't move the post. Thanks!

[UCLA02]

6. CNN finally posted a link...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/01/lionel.tate.ap/index.html

[Bluzmann57]

4. While nobody condones robbing a pizza guy

and young Mr. Tate was certainly wrong in doing so, this is still very sad. A life sentence at twelve was too much anyway. What else does he know now, but institutional style life? I suspect that he is going to be in and out of prison for the rest of his life. Hopefully, if he gets sentenced to a prison term, he can use the time to learn something other than robbery that he can use to be a productive citizen when he gets out.

[Ignacio Upton]

7. I think he's become "criminalized"

I don't know if that's an accurate word, but it fits what I'm trying to say. Anyway, I think that by being exposed to the prison life at the beginning of your teenage years, you're still at an impressionable age. Tate was probably influenced by the personalities of his cell-mates and other people in jail that he saw. "Institutionalized" is probably a good word for his condition. For all we know, he probably robbed the guy so he could go BACK to jail. I remember they touched on this subject a bit in the movie "The Shawshank Redemption."

[rodeodance]

8. tought on crime--if concerns the working class.

[951-Riverside]

9. Hopefully this little snot will get 30 years

He and Sammy Gravano had 2nd chance at life after committing murder and they blew it!

[UCLA02]

10. Gee, don't hold back...

...tell us how you REALLY feel.

;-)

[hang a left]

11. I really don't know what is wrong with this kid.

He is obviously very troubled. I did not agree with his life sentence back when he was 12. But there was definately something wrong with that "wrestling match". Maybe the kid is a sociopath?

[UCLA02]

13. Would you agree to a life sentence NOW?

Because that's what he was looking at if he didn't plea. Almost as ridiculous as a life sentence back then. Almost.

[hang a left]

14. No. I don't think my post indicated that either.

I think the kid needs help. He is screaming out for it, don't you think? Either that, or he is a sociopath. Unfortunately, he has not been served in the "system" up until this point. I wonder why the mother didn't see to it that the kid got the help he needed. And I would have to agree with the poster upthread that he will probably be in and out of prison his entire life. Until of course, he finally receives life in prison.

[UCLA02]

16. My post didn't suggest that your post suggested anything...

...it was just a question to generate a response. It hadn't been addressed by anybody on the thread yet. I was just curious as to anybody's opinion, you just happened to be the one.

[MadMaddie]

20. If I remember correctly he had some mental developmental issues....

I wonder what kind of treatment he received when he was released....I am betting he received none.

It's a sad story among many sad stories in America.. But he committed a crime...Maybe 5-10 years but not life...

[FlaGranny]

22. I'm inclined to think that he

IS a sociopath. Nothing against the young man, but his demeanor during his trial for the murder was not that of a frightened child who had made a bad, bad mistake. He seems to lack empathy. He seems like a lot of kids who went through a children's psychiatric hospital I used to work for. They frightened me as I knew they were going to grow up to be sociopaths. Some were as young as 3 and a couple had already tried to kill someone - yes, at age 3. Almost invariably, they came from drug-addicted parents.

[LostinVA]

30. I agree with you, Granny

I thought that at the time. Kids can be institutionalized, and some of the things he's done SINCE he was released could be that. However, his behavior concerning the death of the little girl was often quite "textbook" sociopathic. *sigh*

Ted Bundy's aunt said he was barely out of the toddler stage when he "play" terrorized her with knives. Interesting, considering what you wrote in his posts.

[UCLA02]

12. FL criminal law question...

I'm with a DA's office here in California, and guilty pleas come with a set sentence, with the condition that if the judge doesn't buy the agreement made between the DA and the defendant, the defendant will be allowed to withdraw the plea and start over.

What is the deal in FL? Why the "10-30yr" range on a plea? I guess even 30 yrs is better than the life sentence he was (again) looking at. I know it's FL, so I was surprised they didn't just take him in back and strap him to Ol' Smokey, but seriously, LIFE?

So in FL, to recap:
Big kid killing little black girl--LIFE SENTENCE
Bigger kid committing armed robbery with nobody hurt--LIFE SENTENCE.
(I know he's now of legal age, but that didn't seem to matter before...)

I guess that makes the court clerks' jobs much easier...cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste cut/paste

[hang a left]

15. and does Florida have a three-strikes law?

His rap sheet looks like this

Second degree murder

Concealed weapon-violation

Armed robbery-violation

[UCLA02]

17. Is the concealed weapon violation from THIS offense?

Depending on the jurisdiction's 3SL, he may not be able to get 2 strikes for a "single" offense.

[hang a left]

18. No.

The article states that it was an offense in 2004.

[UCLA02]

19. Right, well then if that's a strike, then he's sunk...

UNLESS they don't count the juvenile murder 2 conviction as a strike for 3SL purposes. Way too much conjecture, tho.

[SquireJons]

21. Strike Two!

Personally, I'm a two strike guy when it comes to violent crime. It's not all that hard to find yourself in one bad situation, where you maybe lose your head and do something that you regret for the rest of your life. But the second time kind of shows what kind of person you really are. If there is a third strike, it will probably be murder, cause he'll have nothing to lose. I say lock him up and throw away the key. Now, before some innocent person dies.

To me, the crazy thing is that his mom was a cop. Where's the disconnect?

[Lochloosa]

27. No three stike law in Florida

We do have a law for using guns in the commission of a felony.

Use a gun: 10 years mandatory
Shoot a gun: 20 years mandatory
Shoot someone: Life no chance of parole.

[Lochloosa]

26. No set sentence here in Florida.

Usually, there is an agreement not to seek the death penalty or no life sentence. For the "no life" the sentence will be in a range such as the 10 - 30. He will serve 85% of his time on the 10 - 30.

[UCLA02]

28. I just can't see how life is justified for armed robbery...

...gun minimum or no, if the gun was not fired and nobody was shot.

Just going off what news reports said his exposure was if convicted at trial.

[Lochloosa]

29. Welcome to my world.....

:toast:

[aikoaiko]

33. Its because he admitted killing a little girl already and was on probation

it wasn't just armed robbery. He has already killed someone and was given a second chance.

[hedgehog]

23. Clearly there is something seriously wrong here

Labeling this person a sociopath just doesn't address the problem or make it go away. Our current prison system isn't a good answer either. We had a case similar to this in Syracuse recently. A young teenager, 12 or 14, got into a fight with his mother (she was about 30) and broke her neck. They were fighting because she wanted him to come in for the night. Now the family doesn't think the boy should go to jail, that he killed his mother by accident. I challenge anyone, no matter what you think of either case, to come up with a solution to salvage the life of either young man. I would be perfectly happy to see them placed in some kind of structured group home where they would be protected and monitored closely. I don't see a need to punish them, but I don't think they can ever be allowed to be entirely free.

[aikoaiko]

24. Prison is where he belongs. nt

[hedgehog]

25. Why?

To keep us safe?

Revenge?

It sure isn't for rehab.

If it's to keep us safe, why isn't prison reform a major issue today? We are responsible for the safety of those we imprison.

[LostinVA]

31. If he is indeed a sociopath, he can't be rehabbed

So, your first option would be the answer.

[aikoaiko]

32. Because here is his history when we give him 2nd chances w/ no prison

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20060301-0738-wrestlingdeath.html

He was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in 2001, but an appeals court in 2004 tossed out the conviction and sentence after ruling that it wasn't clear Tate understood what was happening to him. He then pleaded guilty to second-degree murder as part of a deal with prosecutors and was sentenced to 10 years' probation.

Lazarus added five more years to the probation term after Tate was arrested in September 2004 for carrying a knife with a four-inch blade. The judge warned Tate then that he had “zero tolerance” for future violations.

But police say it didn't take long for Tate to find trouble again.

Last May 23, Tate called Domino's Pizza from a friend's apartment and ordered four pizzas. A friend later told police that Tate, armed with a revolver, hit behind the apartment door when delivery man arrived with the order.

The delivery man, who dropped the pizzas and ran after seeing the gun, identified Tate as the perpetrator and Tate's fingerprints were found on the pizza boxes, police said. There were also text messages on Tate's cell phone planning the robbery.

Tate was also suspected in the theft of weapons from his mother.

Do you see the pattern? :shrug: I do -- he belongs in prison.

Revenge? I have nothing to seek revenge for.

Reform? According to him he didn't need reformation because the homocide was an accident.

To keep us safe? Definately.

[Zynx]

34. Armed robbery as a source of income

That's not a "mistake." The incapacitation theory of corrections certainly applies here.

[confrontationclaws]

35. It's not "10-30"

There are no "indefinite" criminal sentences in Florida. The 10 to 30 year language in the story and the initial post is misleading. It's NOT like "he's doin' 5 to 10" as you sometimes hear in movies, or maybe from other states...whatever he's actually pleading to, or whatever the state has agreed to limit the possible sentence to, carries a RANGE of 10 to 30 years. When the judge sentences him, he'll get A SPECIFIC TERM of years, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30, whatever the judge decides. The actual sentence will be one number, not a range of numbers.

Florida DOES have various career criminal and repeat/habitual offender provisions that in some ways equate to "three strikes." The 10 to 30 year range is a bit puzzling, and makes me think that maybe the state is allowing a plea to an "unarmed" robbery instead of an armed robbery, since no matter what, the maximum penalty for an armed robbery is life. And yes, that is draconian, and sends the message to robbers "shoot your victim, the death penalty is statistically unlikely and you'll have eliminated at least one witness...you've got nothing to lose."