Canada backs Sikh dagger rights

[tecelote]

Canadian Sikhs should be allowed to wear small daggers central to their faith when they go to school, the country's Supreme Court has ruled.
In an 8-0 judgement, the court reversed the ruling of a Montreal school board, which banned Gurbaj Singh Multani from wearing his dagger, known as a kirpan.

The kirpan is deemed sacred by Sikhs as a symbol of power and truth.

School authorities banned the kirpan in 2001 after an objection by a parent concerned about pupil security.

Announcing the judgement, the Supreme Court said that a total ban on kirpans violated the country's Charter of Rights.

The charter guarantees total religious freedom within Canada.

More...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4770744.stm

[reality based]

1. What about those who worship AK-47's? n/t

[Canuckistanian]

6. That was exactly my first thought

But the Kirpan is only to be used as a symbol, almost the same as a crucifix is to Christians.

To actually use it to hurt someone would be an abomination.

OTOH, I understand the concerns of bringing any potential weapon into a school.

[Mithras61]

16. "Potential weapons"?

I understand what you mean, but if it comes right down to it, schools are already filled with potential weapons. Pencils, pens, paper (yes, paper), styrofoam cups, plastics of various types, and so on have all been used to make weapons at one point or another. When it comes down to it, weapons (or potential weapons) are there regardless of if knives & various other implements are banned.

[Canuckistanian]

19. True, but..

How many people are stabbed to death with pens or pencils every year?

I hear this argument from the pro-NRA types who say "even a frying pan can kill you, you want to ban frying pans now?"

Some knives ARE designed to inflict maximum harm on human beings.

[Spazito]

20. How about scissors, they have been used to stab yet they

are part of every student's schools supplies. Students have been stabbed with pens and pencils, it is not common but it has happened.

[Canuckistanian]

21. My point is "possible but not very likely"

That's all.

[Spazito]

22. It seems "possible but not very likely" also applies to the

kirpan seeing as NO incidents have occurred with it.

[LostinVA]

23. And, all the ones I've seen are patently NOT weapons

You could do as much harm with a butter knife.

[Akoto]

2. I don't mean to ask a stupid question, but ...

Does this law allow children of any age to carry these to school?

I'm all for religious freedom, but logic tells me that young children shouldn't be carrying around daggers. Not because I'm against it being a symbol of their faith, but because kids don't always act with the highest degree of sense. They're kids, after all.

[AllegroRondo]

4. Its only a symbol, not a functional knife

in some cases, they are the size of a keychain, and not sharpened.

[Canuckistanian]

7. They have to be baptised in the Sikh faith first

And I don't think young children are baptised. I think it's around 12 or 13 years old when they're baptised.

[colorado_ufo]

3. If the dagger is merely a symbol

why would the Sikhs object to the blade being made - in the case of children - of a relatively harmless material, such as soft tin?

[Xithras]

25. Because there's actually a requirement that it be made of Iron.

Not plastic, not brass, not aluminum, not steel...Iron.

[SixStrings]

5. "The charter guarantees total religious freedom within Canada"

Ok...Who decides what is a religion?

I like to worship, oh let's say, NATURE. PArt of nature is the Marijuana plant. Can I now legally smoke my weed because "the charter guarantees total religious freedom within Canada"?

How about this one...My canadian military is involved in Afghanistan which contradicts my 'religious' views. Since my tax dollars are supporting this, can I refuse to pay taxes based on religious principles?

Well, "The charter guarantees total religious freedom within Canada",so I would say I am totally within my rights to withhold my hard earned money.

Agree?

[StrafingMoose]

8. I doubt Sikhism was designed some weeks ago with the

sole intent to smuggle knives into schools. IMO, I doubt they would have taken this that far in courts if they knew that in their communities people are chopping each others' head like mad at every occasion with these...

And using stretched hypothetical scenarios like the one you used about marijuana ammounts to, for example, having Harper next elections saying "We won't hold elections since it is dangerous and you might vote, unknowingly, for an evil alien from Mars hell bent on destroying the country, that's why I should stay PM forever as your supreme leader".

Seriously, if what they said about the kirpan never been used in any crime, I could care less about it.

[whirlygigspin]

9. from the end of the article

"The ruling did allow some restrictions to be imposed on kirpans worn in public, including limiting their length and keeping them sheathed and worn underneath clothes.

Nevertheless, Gurbaj Singh Multani, who was 12 when he was suspended and then removed from his school, welcomed the judgement.

"Everybody stood for their rights. I got it. I'm happy," he said outside the court.

Orthodox Sikhs have been required to carry kirpans since the 17th century, and insist it is not a weapon.

About 250,000 Sikhs live in Canada, with 10% considered orthodox."

[SixStrings]

10. Huh? What are you talking about?

I never said anything about the knives beiong dangerous, or that I am at all worried about someone getting assaulted with one. That's not the point. My question is who decides what is religious and what criteria do they use?
So because my religion is not 'old' that means I can be 'discriminated' against?

And by the way, your lame Harper comparison is staggering in it's hypocrisy considering the Liberals entire campaign was to portray Harper as someone 'hell bent on destroying the country'. Shouldn't of been brought into this conversation.

So.....

Who decides what is religious and what criteria do they use?

[Spazito]

11. LOL, I agree, Harper is not hell bent on destroying the country

he is only hell bent on making us the 51st state and presenting it to bush. Given he broke two of his promises right off the bat, he is doing well emulating bush without any problem.

[MrPrax]

14. It's not total freedom...?

This is simply the Courts ruling that THIS objection, made by a school board and upheld by a lower court, is unreasonable restriction on religious freedom.

To be a religion with tax charity status in Canada, the waiting period is something like 20 years--so unless the religion has a following and can establish itself--there isn't a whole lot of room for someone to claim 'personal conscience' as a religion.

From the first line of the CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS:

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

If you notice there is a distinct separation between (a) and (b) and the purpose of the Supreme Court in Canada is to separate out these differences.

[Bridget Burke]

26. Start up a religion, then.

Make up our commandments, write some scriptures, start preaching. Set up a church--even in a store front. See how many converts you can get.

[Teaser]

12. My religion requires that my +5 enchanted battlemace

be on my person at all times.

[TrogL]

15. then go for it

Hire a lawyer and go to the supreme court.

[Teaser]

17. Who needs Lawyers, I'll use a 10th degree Cleric

instead.

Sweet.

[Mizmoon]

13. I'm a rasta!

Yeah, I know I'm a white chick who has only visited Jamaica twice, but dammit, I AM a rastafarian and I'm moving to Canada to claim my rights!

[truthisfreedom]

18. whatever.

[Xithras]

24. We've had this issue in central California, and the solution was simple.

Local Sikh's here are permitted to bring their kirpan to school, as long as the kirpan is encased within a sheath which prevents the blade from being drawn. Typically this means that the tops of the sheathes have stitching which extends over the bolster to hold the knife in. The fear really wasn't that the Sikh's themselves would use the weapon violently (the devout sikhs who would wear the knives are rarely involved in any kind of violence), but that someone would try to take the knife from them.

As I understand it (and I don't claim to well), the requirement came about in response to historical attacks against their people by the Mongols. Their religion incorporated the requirement that all baptised Sikhs carry the kirpan to defend themselves against death, or to protect innocents from harm.