Archbishop fears Church 'rupture' (gay rights)

[IndianaGreen]

Last Updated: Sunday, 5 March 2006, 07:20 GMT

Archbishop fears Church 'rupture'

The Archbishop of Canterbury has warned that the worldwide Anglican Church faces a fundamental "rupture" on the issue of homosexuality.

Dr Rowan Williams told BBC One's The Heaven and Earth Show he feared any split could take decades to heal.

Traditionalists have given the Church in the US until June to reverse its approach on ordaining gay clergy - or face expulsion from the Communion.

Some liberals back a looser, federal structure for the Anglican Communion.

Dr Williams said he feared any split would run too deep to make this possible.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4775446.stm

[sam sarrha]

1. maybe the "Rapture" was just a misprint.and really meant 'Rupture'.. i had

one and it really hurt.. for about 10 years..

[Warpy]

6. You should have had the surgery sooner, then.

Seriously, they're just arguing about that commanment from Jesus, to love a neighbor as yourself, period. No conditions. Judge not lest ye be judged.

If they can't manage that on an insitutional level, never mind the personal that we all struggle with, then they're no longer fit to be called Christian.

[buddysmellgood]

2. Hey! Sounds like another great reason to start killing each other!!!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. No, dear

Episcopalians don't kill one another. Too messy. We just snub each other. Much worse.

[Rowdyboy]

12. LOL....

I nominate this for "Post of the Day". As as fellow one of "God's Frozen People" I agree with you: "We just snub each other. Much worse" :thumbsup:

[lumpy]

14. The US Episcopals Charter came from

Scotland and doen't bow down to Englands' Archbishop of Cant. The US Episcopal Church is one of the most progressive in the US.

[Bill McBlueState]

3. I'm not sure why they fear rupture so much

I think it's good for the mainline denominations to articulate clearly where they stand on these issues. If the dissenters want to form a new church, they should do so.

[xchrom]

5. nail on head.

i was talking to my priest over coffee the other day and two things popped up --

one: how long can the liberal episcopal/anglican church keep having the same conversation with conservatives over and over?
remember this isn't JUST about gay folk -- but about the ordination of women as well.
for me -- if you don't want to ordain women THEN DON'T BAPTISE THEM!

second: the coming political wave may well be one of coallitions.
it's easier for people to relate to each other from the strength of familiar territory.

[ret5hd]

7. rupture = less money for the original organization.

it's that simple. it's all about the money.

[QC]

9. The African and Asian churches on the homo witchhunt don't send money

to the central church--they take money from it. If Brits, Americans, Australians, Canadians, etc. left, the churches led by people like Akinola would probably go under.

[JerseygirlCT]

18. Absolutely

and the churches in the UK, the US, Australia, Canada, etc. have only minorities, (loud, but small) opposed to this.

[QC]

21. Sometimes I think that the Robinson controversy is a power/money

grab. African, Asian, and Latin American bishops are now pushing American homophobe parishes to withdraw from their own dioceses and align with them.

Of course, this violates Anglican polity, and some have been quite brazen about it, even going into American parishes to officiate at services without even the courtesy of notifying the local bishop--a big no-no. But, there's potentially lots of money to be made by picking off American parishes, and I tend to think that is at least part of what's going on here. After all, these bishops have no problem with things like polygamy, human rights abuses, treating women as property, etc. but we are supposed to believe that the thought of a gay bishop 10,000 miles away is driving them to righteous indignation? That seems unlikely to me.

[JerseygirlCT]

22. Yeah -- good point.

And a part of me thinks -- hey, if they want to take Scaife's money, all the better -- less of it here to cause harm.

Cynical, aren't I?

[QC]

23. True--I wish Scaife would send all his cash to the "Southern Cone."

That beats spending it on installing a fascist government in this country.

[Bill McBlueState]

13. I understand that they would fear that at first

But I think there are a lot of people out there who would be willing to join a large church that was unambiguously opposed to discrimination against LGBT people.

If conservatives split off from the Anglican Communion, the remaining church would take a hit at first, but membership would rebound as liberal non-chuchgoers began to feel undeniably welcome in Anglican churches.

[JerseygirlCT]

19. I know my church lost a couple of families over Gene Robinson's

consecration as bishop.

But we've gained much more than that -- many who have said that's why they've come to our parish. (A nearby parish is one of the "CT six" -- aligned with the ultra-conservatives.)

I absolutely agree with you.

[QC]

4. As an Anglican, I say, "Bring on the rupture."

I see no reason why an international church should be dominated by third world fundamentalists.

Some liberals back a looser, federal structure for the Anglican Communion.

We already have that and always have. National churches are independent--there is no centralized hierarchy in Anglicanism. The Archbishop of Canterbury is first among equals, not a pope.

This worked fine until bigots like Peter Akinola decided to make everyone else dance to their hateful tune.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. There is more to it than the gay issue

and it revolves around contemporary theology. Some bishops have said that the resurrection was just a metaphor, etc.

All the churches in Tallahassee except one have split down the middle on these issues. It really also has a lot to do with who the Bishop is. I think the split could be compromised with some creative bishop coverage, allowing a parish to designate itself as a traditional parish and be served by a traditional bishop.

But even the "Anglican" communion that the churches are splitting to have schisms. One group is against the ordination of women, another is not.

Of course there is always the possibility of the national group backtracking on the Gene Robinson issue. I wonder how likely that is?

[QC]

15. If they give in to Akinola and the others and backtrack on Robinson,

then I'm gone. Same if they backtrack on ordaining women.

What it really comes down to is whether world Anglicanism will become fundamentalist in order to suit fanatical bigots in the third world. It doesn't help, of course, that many of these same bigots condone, and even practice, polygamy, on the grounds that it is "part of the culture," but suddenly get all traditional when it comes to what other cultures countenance.

The bishops in Africa, Asia, and the Caribbean are perfectly free to do as they please in their own dioceses, but that's not enough for them. Just like other fundamentalists, they seek to dictate to the rest of the world.

[JerseygirlCT]

20. I don't think that will happen

These "American Anglican" churches are few. And even within those parishes, there are people who stay for tradition's sake, and dislike the turn their parish has taken.

And on other issues closer to theological doctrine -- well there's such a tradition in Episcopalianism for diversity and open inquiry. There seems to be no problem, at least up here, for differing opinions.

[Toucano]

11. I don't see the problem.

Splits over fundamental ideas are a natural part of the process. It's happened hundreds of times in all faiths.

Big whoop.

[MasonJar]

16. Our bishop in Louisville, Kentucky has supported the ordination

of the gay bishop in New England. He has dissenters, but has stood his ground and gained enormous respect from many of us. A man who follows his conscience is often criticized by the people who have to forgo the status quo. I feel that many religious followers of all sects are cornered by the prejudices that they have been taught. It is hard to let go of ideas ingrained in one from youth, especially if the individual is not young. Patience is bringing hope I think, just as the government of W is assisting the bigots.

[JerseygirlCT]

17. Rowan just needs to grow a backbone

As long as these far right clerics think they can succeed in pushing him around, this will continue. Once they know the game is up, a few will leave, most will grumble and get over it. Eventually, they'll look back in amazement at the bigotry that was.


They don't have the numbers, they don't have moral right on their side, and they don't have time on their side.

[davidinalameda]

24. let it rupture

I know that I won't lose any sleep and I doubt too many of the members of my church would either

I believe in my heart as a gay Christian, I am right and those who support an inclusive church are right