General's Assessment of Iraq Questioned (Murtha - US caught in civil war)

[UpInArms]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1689698&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

WASHINGTON Mar 5, 2006 (AP)— The Pentagon's top general acknowledged Sunday that "anything can happen" in Iraq, but he said things aren't as bad as some say. "I wouldn't put a great big smiley face on it, but I would say they're going very, very well from everything you look at."

The comments drew criticism that Gen. Peter Pace is glossing over problems in the three-year-old U.S. campaign.

"Why would I believe him?" asked Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a major critic of the Bush administration's handling of the war. "This administration, including the president, (has) mischaracterized this war for the last two years."

<snip>

Murtha, responding to Pace in an appearance on CBS' "Face the Nation," said that Iraq has 60 percent unemployment, oil production below prewar levels, and water service to only 30 percent of the population.

American troops are doing everything they can militarily but "are caught in a civil war," said Murtha, a former Marine who has called on the administration to bring U.S. troops home.

...more...

[UpInArms]

1. related: ABC News: Expert on Iraq: 'We're In a Civil War'

U.S. Officials Deny Violence Has Risen to That Level, but ABC News Analysts See a 'Serious Lack of Realism'

BAGHDAD, March 5, 2006 — As Pentagon generals offered optimistic assessments that the sectarian violence in Iraq had dissipated this weekend, other military experts told ABC News that Sunni and Shiite groups in Iraq already are engaged in a civil war, and that the Iraqi government and U.S. military had better accept that fact and adapt accordingly.

"We're in a civil war now; it's just that not everybody's joined in," said retired Army Maj. Gen. William L. Nash, a former military commander in Bosnia-Herzegovina. "The failure to understand that the civil war is already taking place, just not necessarily at the maximum level, means that our counter measures are inadequate and therefore dangerous to our long-term interest.

"It's our failure to understand reality that has caused us to be late throughout this experience of the last three years in Iraq," added Nash, who is an ABC News consultant.

Anthony Cordesman, the Arleigh A. Burke chair in strategy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told ABC News, "If you talk to U.S. intelligence officers and military people privately, they'd say we've been involved in low level civil war with very slowly increasing intensity since the transfer of power in June 2004."

<snip>

In an interview on Fox News Sunday, however, U.S. Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, disputed that.

...more...

[libodem]

2. Now that we've gone over there and done the watoosee on

top of a red ant pile let's get our boys outta there. And I mean now. A civil war is nothing but a never ending bloodbath and not one more American kid should die over there. It's fruitless and stupid. Give that green zone to the oil companies and let their mercenaries have the fucking war. The congress wants to be so high and mighty about what should we do ...'just pull out and run' I say hell ya ...so what if you turn your back on a useless country that is not thankful for the democracy we gave them. So who cares if we fucking lie to them and leave, we've been lied to over here about why we went over there in the first place. Why should we care more if we lie and desert the cause like we did before under big daddy...why would we care what they think we can spin it anyway we want and have 20 talking heads and 20 voices on the air waves tell us that we've done all we can and now we aren't wanted. Leave Negroponte there, don't get me wrong. Give him a special office just outside the greenzone or in a really sacred mosque. But get our boys and girls and men and women back out of harms way. Sending them into the slaughter does not justify and validate the deaths that have come before them. Pulling out our troops does not mean that the brave men and women who have given their lives, were in vain. It means admitting the war is unwinnable because there are no definitions of what it means to win. A war on terror is nebulous. It is intangible. The enemy is a bugaboo creation of concepts and words meant to scare us all into submission and fear. Oooo red alert...oooo yellow alert....ok we are on orange...oooohhh no another special message from Osama himself from deep within a cave in a big mountain somewhere I'm tired and grumpy and cynical and sorry to go on and on ..but I'm mad.

[mithnanthy]

7. I agree, libodem...

well said!

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. General: Iraq going 'very well'

March 6, 2006

WASHINGTON - The Pentagon's top general acknowledged Sunday that "anything can happen" in Iraq, but he said things aren't as bad as some say. "I wouldn't put a great big smiley face on it, but I would say they're going very, very well from everything you look at."

The comments drew criticism that Gen. Peter Pace is glossing over problems in the three-year-old U.S. campaign.

"Why would I believe him?" asked Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a critic of the Bush administration's handling of the war. "This administration, including the president, (has) mischaracterized this war for the last two years."

Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, cited political progress such as holding elections and writing a constitution as well as military progress like training Iraqi security forces. "No matter where you look - at their military, their police, their society - things are much better this year than they were last," Pace said on NBC's Meet the Press .

Murtha, responding to Pace in an appearance on CBS' Face the Nation , said that Iraq has 60 percent unemployment, oil production below prewar levels, and water service to only 30 percent of the population.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/03/06/Worldandnation/General__Iraq_going__.shtml


Is this guy an idiot or is he just delusional?

[liberal N proud]

4. It depends on your definition of going well

If total destruction and constant mayhem is what your are trying to achieve then going well may fit.
If plunging a country into civil war is your goal...
If you are trying to start a world war, I think they are well on their way of setting the course for a world war event, given the recent rhetoric against Iran and giving nuclear technology to India then I am sure they thing things are going well.

May they all rot in hell for their deeds.

[rodeodance]

5. these Generals do not want to be know as Gens who LOST--they have

a huge stake in VICTORY!!

[atreides1]

10. Pace isn't an idiot!!!!

Nor is he delusional, in my humble opinion he and the other members of the JCS are just being paid off to tow the BushCo line, along with some of the commanders on the ground in the region.

[libodem]

11. A delusional idiot!

[Voltaire99]

6. "Why would I believe him?"

The question is apposite, and I applaud it. But why start thinking critically about military matters only now? In Murtha's case, he's never had any previous problems believing the brass in his long career as a hawk, from Vietnam to the present.

This is a serious problem within the Democratic party, and with warrior liberals specifically: the gullibility, the nationalism, and the service to unchecked militarism all lead inevitably to crises like the one we find ourselves in now.

[tledford]

8. I saw Pace on MTP ...

... and he was just spouting the usual RW horsesh*t. Including the canard that runs "It is the media's fault for only showing the BAD news."

:eyes:

[saigon68]

9. WARSAW GHETTO 1943