Kan. Church to Stop Picketing Funerals

[RamboLiberal]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/08/national/a140732S18.DTL

A small Kansas church known for its anti-gay protests said Wednesday it has stopped picketing for now at soldiers' funerals in states with new laws against the practice.

"We're not going to get arrested. We obey the law," said Shirley Phelps-Roper, an attorney and member of Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, a fundamentalist congregation headed by her father, the Rev. Fred Phelps.

Westboro Baptist has outraged mourning communities across the nation by showing up at soldiers' funerals with signs that read "God Hates Fags" or "God Made IEDs," a reference to roadside bombs. Members of the congregation contend soldiers are being struck down by God for defending a nation that tolerates homosexuality.

In response, several states have passed or considered legislation restricting when and where pickets may demonstrate at funerals. Violators can be fined or jailed.

Westboro Baptist canceled demonstrations at funerals this past week in Oklahoma, Indiana, Missouri and Wisconsin, which have new laws limiting such protests.

[Bluzmann57]

1. Gee, how nice of them

Now if they would just disappear altogether...

[readmoreoften]

2. They obey the law?

Cool. How quickly can we make a "Westboro-Baptist-Church-members-have-to-kiss-gay-people's-ass-in-public" law? Ah, a girl can dream, can't she?

[Scout1071]

8. I was stunned recently while driving down a shady, average street

in Topeka, KS. There it was...a giant banner on a "church" reading "http://godhatesfags.com". I literally gasped. I was with a client and asked if that was Westboro Church. He confirmed it was and said that they also owned many or most of the houses surrounding the church. Just a few short blocks later we pulled into the cafe and noticed Fred's crazy ass followers standing on the corner with their wretched signs. (For what it's worth, my client was also repulsed).

I had to tell myself just to breath in....breath out.......client in the car.....breath in.....breath out. But really, I wanted to get out of my car and knock the living shit out of each and every one of them. They evoke so much anger and rage in people.

[Whoa_Nelly]

3. Good

But our nation has become so fucking dysfunctional that it has to be fucking legislated, and waaaay after the initial HATE act, that these sick fucks do not have the right to free speech when it's being used as an aggressive act of hate and an infringement to the privacy of those grieving.

My head explodes daily with the out-of-control dysfunctional BS that is happening within and beyond our borders. We have no democratic republic; We live under the flag of a Neocon Corporation.

[Duncan Grant]

4. It was inappropriate at the funerals of gay men, too.

These psychopaths have been protesting the funerals of men who have died of AIDS or of anti-gay violence for years...

Where was the outrage then? :grr:

[mom cat]

5. Damned good question!

[MuseRider]

9. Yep

and I am willing to bet if they get back to doing only that we will not hear about it. I do hope I am wrong.

:hi:

[Solly Mack]

10. Exactly

[readmoreoften]

12. Oh yeah, this is about soldier's funerals, huh?

I forgot that they went off on that weird "God Bless IEDs" tangent. No wonder why legislation is being passed against them now. Queers like us don't matter to politicians.

[TankLV]

34. So now everything is hunky dorey and we can go back to bashing us gay

people again.

I noticed that this all became such a "bad thing" when they started in on soldiers, but NOBODY cared when it was just gays - and now NOBODY will care again because it's just gays.

How long before the repukes legislate us into camps? I say - let them try - my serious promise to everyone is that what is happening in Iraq will look like a picnic if that should come to pass.

[Lost-in-FL]

15. I am ashamed to say that did not occurred to me before.

Great point. You are so right. :blush: :-(

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. There was rage here

I found out about it when The Matthew Shepard Story aired on television, and I have signed peitions and talked about this for a long time. Please don't think that straights only started caring when they started picketing soldier's funerals.

[TankLV]

57. It only became new and yes, straights only cared, when they began

picketing SOLDIERS funerals.

Now you all can go back to not caring anymore, or at least concentrating on something else, WHICH WAS EXACTLY THE SITUATION BEFORE THE SOLDIERS WERE TARGETED, whether you believe it or like it or not!

[davidinalameda]

24. thank you!

[saigon68]

37. You are right there-- Matthew Sheppard has taken a lot of abuse

From the Phelps Klan


Perpetual Gospel Memorial to Matthew Shepard (By the Phelps Klan)


Link http://www.godhatesfags.com/memorial.html


Phelps photo of Matthew in Hell





When Matthew Shepard died on October 12, 1998, every pervert in this country (from Bill Clinton on down) used his death as a soap box to promote so-called "gay rights." The reality is that Matthew Shepard died because he was trolling for strange flesh and meth. See The Big Laramie Project Lie. These same perverts ignored the vicious murder of 13-year-old Jesse Dirkhising by two fags. In religious protest of this, WBC picketed the funeral of Matthew Shepard, to inject a little truth and sanity into the irrational orgy of lies consuming this world. ( From the Above link)


Monument dedicated to Matthew Shepard's Entry Into Hell, which WBC intends to erect in Casper City Park as a solemn Memorial that God Hates Fags & Fag-Enablers

[BR_Parkway]

38. Exactly - Thank you for stating the obvious

[jberryhill]

46. Nobody liked them then either

....and the laws are not specific to military funerals.

Wisconsin last month enacted a law, scheduled to go into effect today, that bans any loud protest or any poster conveying so-called "fighting words" within 500 feet of a funeral or memorial service.

This of course means that the Repukes will shut down anything resembling Coretta Scott King's funeral in the future.

[Up2Late]

6. I wonder if this has more to do with the Secret Service having a "chat"...

...with them here in Atlanta? Remember how they said they would picket Coretta Scott King's Funeral? I don't recall hearing much about how that turned out, or any news about them since.

I don't know for sure that the Secret Service had a "chat" with them, but with several Presidents and Senators in attendance, I suspect they did.

[Fountain79]

7. I'm sorry

but I don't agree with this law. No matter how offensive this man is, he has the right to protest in his vile manner. I can't imagine the self-restraint one must go through in watching these protest but it is their right.

[Dogmudgeon]

11. Good point

Fred Phelps and his whole vile clan were giving the religious-sociopath community such a bad name that they were a positive force for good. Without them, we will have one less reminder of how much intolerance still exists.

As they say, every silver cloud has its dark lining ...

:evilgrin:

--p!

[readmoreoften]

13. that's all well and good

but when I bury my partner or she buries me, neither of us need Fred Phelps chanting behind us in the graveyard as the coffin is lowered.

Maybe the entire world should just be eligible for levying a restraining order against Phelps upon death.

[Fountain79]

14. You don't need it...

but that is the burden of living in a free society.

[readmoreoften]

26. Funny how some of us shoulder the burden more than others, though.

Somehow I bet if gays started picketing churches, we'd be arrested pronto.

[xmas74]

32. Hopefully there will be just as many good people there

to shove people like Phelps back and away from the area.

I offer my services to any funerals in my area that Phelps wants to picket. I'm short but I used to work as a jailer. And my brother would probably offer his too-former Army, 6'3", over 200 lbs and solid muscle.

Just to get the chance to "accidently" elbow him in his sack would be worth the money spent on gas.

[Voltaire99]

16. Me, too.

While I sympathize with those hurt by these hate-mongers, I agree with you. The constitution does not protect merely that political speech with which we agree. If freedom of speech is to mean anything, it must also mean that assholes can enjoy it.

[readmoreoften]

28. I'm perfectly fine with that.

I just don't know why corporations and elected officials get a "free speech zone" sanctuary where dissenters are loaded into corrals city blocks away from the object of protest, while some child has to listen to his father be referred to as an "anally-infected fag with gerbils stuffed in his rectum" while the coffin is being lowered into the ground.

[Voltaire99]

31. I agree strongly with you.

Our rights as dissenters are little more than theoretical, sharply curtailed whenever elites feel like doing so. What a pathetic and disgusting situation!

I also think it's clear that in the case of these hateful cretins, the recent state legislation has only been passed because they're now (bizarrely at that, see my other post in this thread) spoiling military funerals. Their earlier hate speech seems to have been perfectly fine in the eyes of authorities as long as the homophobia had no military or nationalist context.

[Orsino]

18. Sure, but why not simply separate them...

...from the funeral? We put up barriers all the time, as a precaution against violence. A law mandating a safe distance seems right to me.

[kestrel91316]

29. Sorry. In those states where they have passed laws restricting

this type of protest, he DOESN'T have the right. Get used to it.

Just like shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, some speech can and should be restricted.

If he really thinks he has the right, there is nothing stopping him from filing a lawsuit and taking it all the way to the SC. He ans his clan are all attorneys.

[Fountain79]

30. Shouting fire in a theater is based...

On the idea that it can cause physical harm to those in the theater if in fact the claim is untrue. He is aruging his opinion based on his interpretation of the bible, that's hardly the same thing.

[xmas74]

33. I wonder if his protests became violent,

if family members and friends at these funerals began to attack, would it make a difference?

Sure, some of the family and friends might get arrested for simple assault but could his group be repeatedly arrested for inciting violence? If he or his brethern were assaulted before and they began to spew their hate speech again in a large crowd(at least 50) could it be viewed as inciting a riot?

Probably not but just thinking about this right now.

[jberryhill]

47. Nonetheless

The state can regulate the time, place, and manner of speech.

Speaking and creating a nuisance are two entirely different things. Nobody is saying that Phelps is not entitled to his ideas. Nor is anybody saying that he does not have right to express his ideas.

What he does not have a right to do is to force anyone to listen to his ideas as an incident to their attendance at a funeral.

You like the Constitution? Great. I will be standing on a public street nearest your house tonight at 2AM shouting it at your bedroom window. That's not going to physically harm anyone, so it's fine by you.

These laws are a balance of competing interests. Some would like to freely exercise their religious and spiritual beliefs at a funeral in which they are participating.

Phelps can protest at the cemetary when there is no ceremony going on. He can quit 15 minutes before they show up, and start again an hour later when the cemetary service is over. He can protest elsewhere in town, and he can protest five hundred and one feet away, if he brings his tape measure.

It is precisely because nobody wants to hear his message that he gloms onto other people's events, which those other people have organized, to exercise THEIR First Amendment rights. The types of laws which have been passed, or are under discussion, do not deprive Phelps of his right to speak, but are time, place, and manner restrictions wholly appropriate to balance the competing interests of parties seeking to exercise their rights in the same time and place.

[Fountain79]

49. sure...

"You like the Constitution? Great. I will be standing on a public street nearest your house tonight at 2AM shouting it at your bedroom window. That's not going to physically harm anyone, so it's fine by you."

Mind the drunks and panhandlers...

[DinahMoeHum]

19. An organization called Patriot Guard Riders has been shielding

families at soldiers' funerals:

www.patriotguard.org

(snip)
MISSION STATEMENT

The Patriot Guard Riders is a diverse amalgamation of riders from across the nation. We have one thing in common besides motorcycles. We have an unwavering respect for those who risk their very lives for America’s freedom and security. If you share this respect, please join us.

We don’t care what you ride, what your political views are, or whether you’re a "hawk" or a "dove". It is not a requirement that you be a veteran. It doesn't matter where you’re from or what your income is. You don’t even have to ride. The only prerequisite is Respect.

Our main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen American heroes as invited guests of the family. Each mission we undertake has two basic objectives.

1. Show our sincere respect for our fallen heroes, their families, and their communities.

2. Shield the mourning family and friends from interruptions created by any protestor or group of protestors.

We accomplish the latter through strictly legal and non-violent means.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Directly above is the Patriot Guard Riders’ Mission Statement.

Please read it. If you don’t agree with it, please don’t join. If you’re looking for a group that protests, counter-protests or confronts any organization, you’re in the wrong place.

The PGR is not a protest group.
(snip)

:bounce:

[niyad]

21. I was going to say--I would bet the PGR has a LOT more to do with their

decision than any laws (none of which those hate-mongers have cared about in the past)

[DinahMoeHum]

22. Heh heh heh, yes!

:evilgrin:

[Voltaire99]

20. The ironies of 21st century Christian hatred.

While the anti-gay sloganeering is nothing new, I'm intrigued by one odd ripple here: these Kansan cretins have attached their sexual hatreds to the worsening US campaign in Iraq.

Usually in Christianity, God is invoked to bless military endeavor or celebrate military triumph. God inevitably is "on our side" (no matter how bloodily--a handy psychological escape valve). These Kansans have it backwards. Perhaps they've been encouraged by other prominent Christians' linkages of homosexuality to natural disasters.

This has to remind us of European Christianity's campaign against witchcraft. As Candace Savage tells us in her splendid short book, "Witch: The Wild Ride From Wicked to Wicca" (British Museum Press, 2000), religious leaders used the witch narrative in part to bring sexual passions under control, in other part to strengthen hierarchical order, and encouraged the folk to see their innocent targets as the root of popular misfortune.

In Kansas, it looks like the time machine works pretty well.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

23. Just a question

For anyone who can answer this for me, How is it that these jackasses can protest funerals? I mean it's not like these funeral homes or cemeteries aren't private property, why don't the owners of these places say get the Fuck out of here and call the cops? Isn't it that simple, I can't go hold a war protest at in Arby's parking lot or something of that nature since it's private property so how do these jackasses get away with doing this stuff at funerals? Their not exercising free speech their breaking the law intruding on private property why don't the police arrest them?

[superconnected]

25. their logic is so flawed.

What do they say when something bad happens to their loved one or themselves, "God Hates Biggots"?

[genieroze]

27. These people are seriously disturbed.

Why would they do something so disrespectful as to protest a soldiers funeral because of homosexuality? That's like saying you are pro life while blowing up a building or assaulting someone. Same thought process.

[brentspeak]

35. The head Phelps is definitely disturbed

He's clearly mentally ill. It's his brood that worries me -- what's their excuse?

[Ignacio Upton]

36. Doesn't he also claim that he's a Democrat?

I'm not sure if this is true, but if it is then he's about as much a "Democrat" as Lyndon LaRouche.

[crankybubba]

40. unfortunately

he has run for public office as a democrat. in the 80's Al gore made an appearance at his so called "church" I hope he has distanced himself from this nut job.



the "good reverend" on the left.

[AnneD]

48. Inbreeding?

eom

[BiggJawn]

39. They intend to challenge Indiana's law, though...

We'll see how a Law crafted by grocers and car dealers stands up to a bunch of sick fucks with law degrees, I guess...

[crankybubba]

41. they were supposed to show up

in guymon on tues to protest. The Pgr was there and law enforcement was there. No westboro baptist though. The Pge lined the street with flags. pics at www.kkbs.com

they said they would come to challenge the new law in Oklahoma. But I guess they had more important things to do. Ok's law applies to ALL funerals not just military. So they would be under the same restrictions during a gay funeral. The Sheriff here said there is nothing that could be done about them excercising rights to burn flags(Free speech) but they would be arrested for violation of the county wide burn ban (;))

[wordpix2]

42. how DISGUSTINGly un-American this Baptist group is. YUCK

[jberryhill]

58. They are consistent, though, in one respect

I understand these people's way of thinking better than I understand many mainstream evangelicals.

On the one hand, the evangelicals rant on about how awful it is that the US condones abortion, condones homosexuality, doesn't force kids to pray in school, etc., and that God will judge the US, send us hurricanes, spread disease, and so forth.

And then they turn around and support a crusade to make other countries just like the US.

I mean, do any of these people GET that Israel is about the only country in the mid-east with legal abortion? And that's the ONE country the evangelicals like? WTF?

Phelps, however, has the consistent Calvinist political view figured out - the evangelical God SHOULD hate the US.

[warrens]

43. Where the hell do they get their money?

It's just one big family. The only reason they have law degrees is to sue anyone who tries to stop their horrific behavior. Where are they getting that money?

[jberryhill]

50. You answered your own question

They get their money by suing anyone who tries to stop their horrific behavior.

That's the entire point of the operation, btw.

[trogdor]

44. Bullshit.

They didn't cancel the protests because of any silly law or restraining order. They cancelled them because gangs of bikers were out providing security for these funerals, and they didn't want to get their asses kicked. No jury in the world would give those Phelps assholes a cent in a lawsuit if the bikers were to unleash their fists of fury. Why do you think they won't take their travelling sideshow to Provincetown, MA? Or San Francisco? Or any other gay mecca? BECAUSE THEY'D GET THEIR ASSES KICKED INTO NEXT MONTH, and justly so.

[Miss Chybil]

45. Where do they get their money? How can they afford all this travel? nt

[jberryhill]

51. They have recovered damage awards...

...and settlements from people who violated their rights.

That's precisely why they act the way they do. It's a scam disguised as a religious crusade.

[Miss Chybil]

54. Oooooooohhhh! Now I get it. Wow. Seems like they could be

charged for some kind of crime.

[jberryhill]

56. Not at all

It is perfectly acceptable to "set up" a situation where you are going to be able to bring a civil rights claim.

How on earth do you think that cases like Roe v. Wade or Brown v. Board of Education get started?

A lot of civil rights litigation is based on circumstances intentionally calculated to provide the case itself.

Outside of some intellectual property claims, it is one of the few areas where the winner can be awarded attorney's fees as part of the judgment.

Not only are they the plaintiffs, but they are their own attorneys, so when they win, they can double-dip.

But there's nothing illegal about prevailing on a meritorious civil rights claim.

[tuvor]

52. Phelps! You hypocrite!

Do you obey the laws of God, or do you obey the laws of men?

[buckettgirl]

53. i'm becoming more and more sorry that I'm from Kansas

I thought I had heard something the other day about Fred Phelps protesting a funeral... I had no clue what was going on.
That guy is a fucking fruitloop (to say the least).

I am a born and raised Kansas native (from one of the few blue counties in the state). I am proud of my cultural heritage (Volga - German); and I do think that most of my neighbors and friends are generally good people who would be appalled by Fred Phelps and his antics. (I hope, anyway).

But Good God! When I finish college, my hubby and I are packing our bags and getting the hell out of here!

On edit: I hope there is one hell of a protest at his funeral condemning him of the shameful life he has lived!

[geniph]

55. I have a biker friend, a Vietnam vet

who goes, along with his veterans' bikers group, to stand between these maroons and the funerals. They form a line to block the sight of these idiot protesters from the mourners. The evil WBC dipshits are lucky beyond belief that none of them have had the bejesus beaten out of them yet. Then again, I'm sure that's what they're hoping for, a martyr.

[jberryhill]

59. Not "Martyr"..... "Plaintiff"

They would welcome the opportunity to sue the bejeezus out of anyone who so much as touched them.