As 'Da Vinci Code' film looms, Opus Dei tries to explain itself

[DoYouEverWonder]

March 13, 2006

Opus Dei spokesman Brian Finnerty used to shrug off all the unwelcome attention:

The gaggles of teenagers who peered into Opus Dei's U.S. headquarters at 34th Street and Lexington inquiring after Silas, the albino monk assassin of Da Vinci Code fame.

The letters addressed to Bishop Aringarosa, the fictional head of Opus Dei in Dan Brown's bestselling novel, seeking more information about the Holy Grail.

<snip>

"There are no monks in Opus Dei, albino or otherwise," he repeats almost like a mantra. "Nobody here dresses in robes -- not even on Halloween. This is fiction."

But the days of mild-mannered refutation are over. With Ron Howard's multimillion-dollar film adaptation of the novel set to debut this spring and 40 million copies of the novel in print, Finnerty and his organization -- the Code's arch-villains -- fear a tsunami is headed their way.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-licode0313,0,7679282.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork&track=mostemailedlink

[UTUSN]

1. "tries" to explain itself, or "rises" to explain itself n/t

[no_hypocrisy]

2. To quote Ralph Kramden: Haminahaminahamina . . . . .

[SpiralHawk]

23. Hardy har har

One of these day, pow, right to the moon,,,

[Javaman]

36. You're a blabber mouth! a Blabber mouth! nt

[CatholicEdHead]

3. Many ultra-conservative Catholics are bashing this movie already

as very "anti-Catholic".

This goes agains the offical stance, which is a teachable moment. (from the link above)

"And so they are adopting a new strategy: There will be no calls for boycotts. No angry denunciations. Instead of fighting against popular culture, Opus Dei -- along with the U.S. Conference of Catholic bishops and many leading Protestant evangelicals -- will attempt to ride the giant wave created by Sony Pictures Entertainment, exploiting it as a "teachable moment" with their own films, books, Web sites and discussion groups."

There will probably be some isolated protests, but not large scale. I know that this is all FICTION, though not everyone thinks the same.

[valerief]

4. Oh, boycott the stupid movie and ignore those privileged wackos.

It's like arguing over Batman movies. The whore press will give them as much airtime as they want, of course, but that doesn't make it interesting or relevant.

*edit to add*
BTW, I'm not interested in protecting Catholicism or anything like that. To me, all the fuss over TDVC is much ado about nothing.

[MADem]

5. They sure as hell are nitwits when it comes to PR

From a purely public relations viewpoint, they should have done THIS from the git-go:

And so they are adopting a new strategy: There will be no calls for boycotts. No angry denunciations. Instead of fighting against popular culture, Opus Dei -- along with the U.S. Conference of Catholic bishops and many leading Protestant evangelicals -- will attempt to ride the giant wave created by Sony Pictures Entertainment, exploiting it as a "teachable moment" with their own films, books, Web sites and discussion groups.

"For a long time we've been trying to get out there and explain who we are," Finnerty said. "Now with the 'Da Vinci Code,' we have a much bigger platform than we had before. So we're using it."

And so chatty emissaries from Opus Dei have begun to appear on ABC's Good Morning America, CBS News and NBC's Today Show, talking about Opus Dei's mission to pursue holiness in everyday life, while the U.S. bishops' group put up a slick Web site on Friday, www.Jesusdecoded.com. But that's just the start: The bishops plan to release an hourlong TV documentary in May, timed to coincide with the Code, exploring some of its more sensational assertions, such as the idea that Jesus really married Mary Magdalene and sired a line of progeny. (Absolutely untrue, the bishops say.)....

Now, the horse is already out of the barn. But the old saying "Any publicity is good publicity" should have been the tack they took from the start. Instead, they were outraged and spitting, which sort of makes this latest effort a bit insincere.

In any event, they're making a bundle for the film, just by responding....

[Bozita]

31. Karl Rove has a part-time job? -- Is this why the ports deal was a fiasco?

[MADem]

49. HA!!

:rofl:

[TrogL]

47. They should have done this when 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail' came out

It's great reading, if you're a student of logical fallacies. It's chock full of them.

[MADem]

50. Not enough of a blockbuster to suit them

This film will go worldwide, millions have read the book, and millions more who just don't read will see the film...but they should have anticipated that the book, which has a gripping tale and memorable characters, would be sold posthaste for the movie rights!

But that said, you are correct--they should have gone on a QUIET PR campaign after that first book, instead of getting all huffy...but they seem to have "huffy" down to a science. It's followed quickly by "strong offense" and brought up in the rear by "vein-popping outrage." They know no other path....

[rfranklin]

6. Right wing nuts to the tenth power...

Isn't Scalia one of their prominent adherents?

[DBoon]

30. and Louis Freeh and Robet Hanssen (notorious spy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen

[warrens]

43. AND Robert Novak. Yes, that Novak...

He converted many years ago.

[Bridget Burke]

45. Novak converted to Catholicism in 1998. "Many years ago"?

Yes, he's on the list of possible members of Opus Dei. (Nobody has any real evidence.)

I seem to remember that Novak was a creep long before his conversion.

[gatorboy]

7. I just goes to show that Repugs can't read.

The book's been out for a few years now and there hasn't been the strong protest I expected. But when a big dumb movie comes out on the subject, they're all up in arms.

Just goes to prove the right wing stereotype that they are literary challenged

[AX10]

8. Opus Dei is a cult.

There are twelve apostles. Each one wrote a book, yet we only see six book in the bible. The Davinci code tries to explain what were in those other six books

[Nostradammit]

14. I wonder what Judas wrote

Bet it was a quick read.

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. The translation of the Gospel of Judas is due out this month

and it is 62 pages long, which is not that quick a read for a gospel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

[Nostradammit]

22. "questionable provenance." Hmmm...

Sounds a little fishy. And only $3 Million for it.

I'll sell you the "Gospel According to Fred", the little-known 13th disciple for $300.


;)

[ret5hd]

26. you dufus...everyone knows the 13th disciple was Rufus! ...

[Nostradammit]

28. Oh yeah...

But a beautiful, naked woman doesn't just fall from the sky, you know?!

(gratuitous shot of Salma)

[Mandate My Ass]

37. lol

Best.Movie.Ever. :thumbsup:

Loki: holding gun to woman's head, "you're a pure soul...but you didn't say 'god bless you.'"

Bartleby: "Lokiiii{/i]"

Loki: lowering gun "you're getting off easy."

[Ex Lion Tamer]

15. What?

You need to re-read (or perhaps read for the first time) both the Bible and the DaVinci code.

[IndianaGreen]

17. That was not in the DaVinci Code

Opus Dei was founded by a pro-Nazi Spanish priest and it is a cult.

None of the apostles wrote a book!

Paul never met Jesus.

The four Gospels were written long after Jesus death by followers of the either Paul (Luke) or the original disciples.

[Critters2]

57. Ummm...no

Paul didn't write a gospel. He wrote a bunch of letters to churches and individuals, most of which are in the canon. The gospel of Matthew is reputed to have been written by Matthew, Jesus' former tax collector disciple, but that's not certain. Luke was a co-worker with Paul, but not a disciple. Mark was also a co-worker with Paul, not a disciple. The gospel of John was almost certainly written by a student of John "the beloved disciple".

Mark is the earliest of the gospels, probably written around 50 CE, John is the latest of the gospels, written between 90-100 CE.

Paul is generally considered an apostle (though not a disciple--you're right, he never met Jesus but in a vision). His books all predate the gospels.

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. I like Matthew the best. He's the good apostle.

[Critters2]

58. Well, if we're pickin' favorites,

I like Luke's emphasis on social justice, and the gospel of John is beautifully, poetically written. And I like JOhn's mysticism.

[mmonk]

40. The DaVinci code is fiction

and only has a cult following because it, like other religious books in the west, exploits fear of Catholicism or making everything Catholic a "cult". This is not a defense on Opus Dei by me, just an observation of this phenomena in America concerning religious fiction.

[Bridget Burke]

44. Non-Catholics find the Church weird & exotic....

And mistrust of Catholicism is an old US tradition--dating back to the Pilgrim fathers & running through the Know Nothings. The Church has ancient roots, going back to paganism in some cases. Some of us think that's the best part of the Church--but it scares the neo-Puritans.

Opus Dei is a secret society. With a website. Which powerful Americans are REALLY members? How has their membership truly affected their public acts? (Bob Novak is supposedly a member. But he converted to Catholicism fairly recently. Wasn't he already a douchebag?) Yes, some members of the group "punish" themselves--how many good liberals uphold the rights of leatherboys, etc., to do whatever--in private, with other consenting adults?

Odd that a 20th century group is supposedly guarding such an ancient "secret."

[mmonk]

52. Yeah, many find it weird and exotic

and that's why they write the books and movies which make it akin to devil worship because of the Mass. Of course, the Mass was taken from Temple Judaism (before today's modern Judaism) and is ancient and thus is why it is strange to people unfamiliar with it. The Church in order to gain converts beyond it's Jewish followers adapted pagan influences as well (in order to be for the Greek as well as the Jew).

[genieroze]

54. The Unofficial Opus Dei FAQ

http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/opus.dei.uo.faq.html

updated to add this link, similar comparisons?
http://www.theocracywatch.org/

[Bridget Burke]

55. The Unofficial Opus Dei FAQ criticizes it as a "cult"....

But it says nothing about the political influence supposedly held by Opus Dei.

I'm quite familiar with the work done by Theocracy Watch. However, their targets include Dominionism the Christian Reconstructists. Those movements sprung out of regressed versions of Protestantism especially known for their virulent anti-Catholicism. No--no similarity at all.

[genieroze]

68. really?

read the whole thing. They are different sides of the same coin. They are both anti anything that goes against their agendas. They are both extreme right wing. The site in question gives many examples of their political influence. Links that mysteriously don't work anymore even gave names.

[Bridget Burke]

74. Yes, really.

You are the one who is has made that great logical leap.

Gosh, mysterious links that don't work anymore.... It must be a fiendish PLOT!

[genieroze]

78. Then go to the site and try clicking on them.

They don't work anymore. I never said anything about a fiendish plot. Maybe I'll e-mail them and tell them their links don't work. My aunt was a Opus Dei numerary assistant. Many of the people who are involved are unaware of the hierarchy and are very kindhearted people who really feel they are doing good for mankind.

[mondo joe]

51. Where did you get that each apostle wrote a book?

Even the 4 gospels of what is called the Bible were scattered remnant attributed to those 4 authors decades later.

[Stuckinthebush]

62. Oh you and your high falutin facts!

:D

[auagroach]

69. A Cult in a Cult

The Roman Catholic Church is a cult. All religions are nothing but cults. It's only social acceptance that seperates a cult from a religion but a rose is a rose is a rose, white, red or otherwise

[davhill]

9. Whats next

A movie version of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

25. An Egyptian channel turned it into a TV series in 2002

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/10/31/MN207347.DTL

[xultar]

10. I love it. Makes Muslims look not so abnormal to Christians.

Christians knowing that there are other Christians that beat themselves about the back just like Muslims puts all of them on the same block.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

11. For more on this subject:

Just go out there and google "Rennes le Chateau" and read your guts out. I have, and it is some of the most incomprehensible stuff on the planet. I read the book "Holy Blood and The Holy Grail" way back when dirt was in beta testing and have followed things since then. Admittedly, it makes for a ripping yarn, but OH MYRTLE! it gets deep and piled high.

I am just surprised that no one has worked alien anal probes into the narrative, or if they have, I have missed it.

[bobbieinok]

71. Holy Blood, Holy Grail...a 'fun' read......but, GRIEF, if I checked the

footnote to see what the source was for a given statement, the footnote nearly always was to an obscure book that would be extremely difficult for the average person to get ahold of OR was something on the order of 'This was in a letter from X to Y in the archives of Z library. When we went back for a further check, the letter had been misplaced and the library could not locate it.' (Such mysterious disappearances were supposedly further 'proof' that a secret organization was working very hard to conceal the 'truth.')

I wish someone would pay me lots of $$ for a work with this type of documentationl

[Malva Zebrina]

12. I like the idea that mythology is incorporated into fiction

after all, all that is portrayed in religious pictures is nothing more than artistic and imaginary art. It has to be that way because absolutely no one knows the real story and absolutely NO artist knows that what he is portraying is the way that the man Jesus really looked like. Yet we see hundreds of thousands of holy pictures depicting the image of Jesus the Jew, complete with western features and near blond hair!

One cannot rely upon the bible to tell us the true story. It is too full of contradictions.

So, imo, any imaginary depiction as we have seen over the years depicticted in holy card, marble statues and the like, is the same as this work of fiction called the DaVinci code.

The opus dei needs to be revealed as the fascist arm of Christianity, along with others such as the dispensationalists. It is a cult, no doubt about that. It consists of members, mostly male, who are wealthy and who have some political or monetary clout and who are interested in promoting that fascist cult because in the end they will benefit. In their greed, they see this fascistic cult as giving them power and more power. More power in the government and more power over women, who have been, under their bleiefs, relegated to a lesser status.

Yeah

[lovuian]

13. Heres what they have to explain why was Opus dei so secret???

Now thats it been revealed lets see its member list???

They have decided the Genie is out of the jar and need to show lookie we are harmless just a place to pray at...

and yet the questions have gone unanswered on why did the church make the error that Mary Magdelene one of the star players in the Ressurection get named a prostitute??? When there is NO SUCH PROOF,,,

The proof is that one of the Popes decreed it himself and then it was taught in schools over and over again till even recently ... until Dan Brown's book came out

One has to ask themselves WHY did the church make a concerted effort to demean one of the greatest women next to Mary the Mother... in fact its a push to put women in the background of a patriarchal
system...

Its a very touchy subject that no one wants to talk about because actions speak louder than words

The Church's actions are suspect and they found out people were asking questions and researching themselves and then all you have to do is open the Bible and read...

[meow2u3]

41. I want to know how Opus Dei had its founder canonized

Did they bribe or blackmail the Pope? Or did they keep their dark side so well-hidden their con fooled even His Holiness?

[auagroach]

70. Rhetorical or Sincere?

I can't tell if your being facitious or really want to know but the book touches on the point early on and it has been speculated in other places that when the Vatican bank was going belly up and people were hanging themselves off of bridges in London Opus Dei ponied up a cool billion to save the pope's bank and that's how Escriva acquired the fastest Catholic cannonization in church history. Money doesn't talk, doesn't even swear but it does whisper sweet nothings in the ears of the influential,heh?

[meow2u3]

77. I'm dead serious

Those who argued against Escriva's canonization were summarily silenced, ignored, and/or discredited. The anti-Escriva group, some who are ex-Opus Dei members who had their eyes open to the truth, had valid complaints questioning his so-called sainthood which were dismissed offhand as paranoid or worse, especially his victims.

Several ex-members wrote about his wanting to be worshipped as a god, which, without OD's undue pressure on the Pope, would render Escriva ineligible for sainthood, because he was too self-important to be a saint.

I think this canonization is a fraud. I wonder if there is a way to decanonize a person erroneously named a saint.

[redqueen]

56. Why was Mary called a prostitute?

We need to get an answer to that question.

[xchrom]

16. i want them to explain why they want to influence u.s. politics.

the rest -- not so much.

[IndianaGreen]

19. What is Opus Dei? From Opus Dei Awareness Network

Despite its seemingly noble intentions, Opus Dei has stirred up controversy in countries all over the world. Families of Opus Dei members are almost never involved in the vocation process, (in fact Opus Dei itself often discourages its new members from even telling their families about their decision!) Also questionable are Opus Dei's recruiting tactics, which are comparable to the tactics used by cultic groups.

Perhaps most controversial is the effort to canonize Opus Dei's founder, Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer, who died in 1975 and was beatified amidst substantial controversy in 1992, and was canonized on October 6, 2002 in Rome, Italy. See ODAN's opposition to the canonization.

Also controversial in the early 1980's was the granting of Opus Dei to be a "personal prelature" within the Church. A personal prelature is an entity within the Catholic Church that is headed by a "prelate" (currently Javier Echevarria) and defined by persons rather than by geographical area (such as dioceses). Therefore, local bishops have little control over Opus Dei's membership, activities or practices.

Opus Dei has stated that there are approximately 80,000 Opus Dei members worldwide. Opus Dei is located in many countries, including England, Spain, Italy, Ireland, Canada, Mexico, Japan, Australia, the Philippines, countries in Central and South America, and many others, including the United States. Opus Dei generally locates in or near major cities, often near prestigious universities, where they hope to attract recruits.

Since its inception in 1991, ODAN has been in contact with people from all over the world who have experienced the questionable practices of Opus Dei. Many are former members; others who have contacted ODAN include parents, siblings and friends of current or former Opus Dei members; priests and religious, including bishops and campus ministers; news reporters from both the Catholic and secular press, and many more. From the contacts ODAN has made, it has become apparent that wherever Opus Dei is, there is controversy.

http://www.odan.org/what_is_opus_dei.htm

[Divernan]

24. Fact that Rick Santorum & Justices Clarence Thomas & Scalia are members

tells you a lot about what kind of a group this is and what kind of values are promoted.

[PaDem]

33. I believe the honorable Senator Brownback is as well

could be wrong though.

[Bridget Burke]

42. Where's a reliable source of Opus Dei membership?

"I heard that" is not enough...

[PaDem]

64. Brownback is in........

converted to Catholicism under the guidance of the "father" of the Opus Dei movement.

[SharonAnn]

65. Bob Novak, Peggy Noonan are big supporters.

[VegasWolf]

20. Good! Wake the sheep up and make them think seriously about their

religious beliefs and not just what was brainwashed into their heads from their earliest memories.

[DemoTex]

27. I have a second cuz who is an Episcopalian convert to the RCC.

Within three years or so of converting to Catholicism, he was in Opus Dei. His dad (my cuz) and mom (a famous general's daughter, her father linked to Dien Bien Phu - as an American adviser, probably CIA) are still Episcopalians, and right wing nuts too (she especially!). Dad (my cuz) is a former Exxon, USA, VP, and a former Major General in the Texas Army Guard.

We bare-boated the Aegean a few years ago with my cuz, the general, and his wife (in a 50-ft sloop he rented on the cheap). It was a "Rush." Almost two weeks of Rush Limbaugh quotes. But when they tried to find Rush on the Marine SSB, I always jumped in. As a Ham Radio Operator and SWL-er I was the radio op. Rush isn't on short-wave, or at least I couldn't find him in the copy of Monitoring Times that I was carrying. I did manage to get strong signals from Radio Habana. Know what I mean, Vern?

[bleedingheart]

46. converted Roman Catholics are typically the more crazy ones

I was born and raised in the church and I have found the more zealous ones are those who "found" our church....

they are the ones that turn me off...

[Critters2]

59. That's true of any church

Even my own very mainline, very liberal Protestant denomination. If one of my new members talks about "the still speaking God" one more time, I'm likely to start screaming "it's just a stupid marketing slogan! Give it a rest!"

Ooh, sorry.

[undergroundpanther]

29. Look up the

"Cicile"(sp) The barbed self torture device they wrap around a thigh and wear under thier clothes.Thier sick founder said it iss GOOD to be a victim.

http://www.odan.org/tw_nightmarish_experience.htm
.

[Mithras61]

38. Actually, it's "celice" and here's a photo...

[mmonk]

53. Never mind. Looked it up.

[Mithras61]

39. Delete... double post...

Delete... double post...

[Peace Patriot]

32. It's a pretty thin bit of fiction, TDVC. "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"

is much better. So is "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade." And "The Fifth Element" (Bruce Willis movie)--wow! (Bruce encounters God the Woman--it's truly great!) None of these directly takes on the theme of what-all was going on, way back then (1-33 A.D.-ish) between the Goddess people and the God people--as TDVC does--but their aesthetic is more Goddess-like. Really smart humor, outlandish adventure, a highly intelligent but also whacky sense of fun, brought to bear upon old dusty beliefs and controversies. TDVC is more 'Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys Discover the Secret of Yonic Crypt.' Youthful, vacuous main characters, who are just not up to the theme.

TDVC (the book) is once over lightly. It seems a bit ironical that it was written by a man. I don't mind when it's Shakespeare, or the Monty Pythons, or the Beatles, or somebody with wit--true Goddess lovers. But I don't think Dan Brown is (a true Goddess lover). He strikes me as just another exploiter. (Don't know about Ron Howard, though. He's made some pretty good flicks.)

One basic text everybody should know about is to be found in The Nag Hammadi Library. It's called the Gospel of Mary. It's the oldest Gospel, written very close to the time of Jesus. Only three and half pages have survived (long story), but, in them, Mary Magdalen is clearly deferred to, by the other Apostles, as the person who most understood Jesus' teachings and was most beloved of him.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel-magdalene.htm
http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_03.htm
http://wch.utep.edu/Wrenjohnson/WCH3302/Magdalene.htm

I have never thought it was a marriage, though. I could be wrong. But I think Jesus was into esoteric eastern teaching, in which sexual energies are channeled into higher consciousness. (But there were also eastern teachings that include sexual union.)

You'll find a good discussion of the Gnostic Gospels (of which the Gospel of Mary forms a part) in Elaine Pagels' book "The Gnostic Gospels", a gloss on the Nag Hammadi Library--a large cache of ancient (1,500 year old) mss. found sealed in jars in the desert near Alexandria in 1945, from the era when the orthodox "patriarchs" of the 4th-5th centuries were burning all copies of the OTHER gospels; somebody obviously was trying to preserve these from the book-burners who founded the Church we know today, in all its repressiveness and secretiveness and fascist connections.

The Christian religion was in great flux for about four centuries after Jesus--with a wide variety of interpretations, Gnosticism being very likely closest to what Jesus himself taught--undogmatic, communal living, high respect for individual conscience and experience, balance of male/female principles.

The cementing of church and state, and narrowing of the Christian message to one, powermongering, patriarchal sect, whose views were thereafter enforced by the sword, occurred at the Council of Chalcedon in 451 A.D.--following a terrible event some years prior, in 415 AD--the dreadful death of the beloved neoplatonic philosopher Hypatia, who was skinned alive by Christian monks under the orders of Bishop Cyril, "patriarch" of Alexandria (later to be made a "saint"), combined with the final destruction of the Alexandria Library. Cyril--whose guilt for Hypatia's death was commonly known, but who was never punished for it--was a big influence at Council of Chalcedon.

Hypatia--a scientist, mathematician and philosopher--was a teacher of bishops and very likely a pivotal figure in the religious movements of that pivotal era, who could bring together Greek and Roman learning, Jewish scholarship (big at Alexandria), the Mithraic religion (big among the Romans), the Goddess religions (very alive at that time), and the Gnostic Christian inspiration of individual revelation and rebirth. Patriarchal dogmatism would have seemed weird and dangerous to the tolerant, learned Alexandrians. (How we know about Hypatia is partly through the letters of Bishop Synesius of Ptolemais, who was her pupil and friend--a Catholic bishop of a far different kind than Cyril. Synesius revered PAGAN philosopher Hypatia.)

The trend of violence against the freethinkers and real Christians of the day was set in concrete at Chalcedon, with the imposition of the "Nicene Creed" (basically, the "Our Father" prayer) and the banning of all other religious ideas, along with the permanent incorporation of bigotry against Jews and Pagans within the heart and soul of this perverse form of 'christianity' --all to be enforced by the state.

The name Chalcedon revisits us today, with the Chalcedon Foundation, an extremist 'christian' group which, among other things, touts the death penalty for homosexuals. This Foundation was funded (one million bucks) by Howard Ahmanson, who also was the initial funder of the electronic voting firm, ES&S, spinoff of Diebold. Diebold and ES&S (which are run by two brothers) together 'counted' 80% of our nation's votes in 2004, using 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it--with virtually no audit/recount controls. This electronic voting scam was brought to us by the two biggest Bushite crooks in Congress, Tom Delay and Bob Ney.

The most profound and evil developments in the early Christian church--this very deliberate destruction of the feminine principle and the equality of women in the Christian religion--is only superficially connected to whether Jesus and Mary Magdalen had a sexual relationship and/or children. The latter is an easy, sensationalist theme. It is arguable, for sure. The orthodox gospels--called the Synoptic gospels--were censored and rewritten by the male cabal that took over the early church. The marriage feast at Cana, for instance, could have been (in reality) Jesus' marriage to Mary Magdalen, or possibly a ritual of enactment of male/female reunion. But the far more important fact (in my opinion) of the violent foundations of the institutional church--the death of Hypatia, the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon, the establishment of "patriarchal" bishops (Cyril was the first to call himself "patriarch"), and the horrible repression of the human spirit that followed for ONE THOUSAND YEARS--is the heart of the matter.

Witch-hunts, witch-burnings, book-burnings, inquisitions, pogroms, plagues, the death of learning, the loss of accumulated knowledge (in science, medicine, hygiene, astronomy, engineering, navigation, architecture, mathematics, philosophy, agriculture, the arts), the loss of literacy, and the loss of individual freedom, lasted THAT long. One thousand years.

The awesomeness of this horror is hard to fathom--but fathom it we should. We are looking right into its horrible face once again--with the Bush junta. And this little detective story romp, TDVC, although it does try to touch upon the violence of the suppression of the feminine, is just not up to the task. The writer is not a deep thinker, and is not particularly good with the language. I found the novel very disappointing, to say the least. We'll see what Ron Howard makes of it as a film.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

48. "King Jesus" by Robert Graves has an interesting take on The Story.

The White Goddess is in the background, but the story shows Graves' thorough knowledge of the Classical World.

Most recent Magdalene scholarship emphasizes her role as an important disciple of Christ. Depicting her as Mrs. Jesus is almost as much a denial of her role as making her a prostitute.

How odd that the Roman Catholic Church--despite its "patriarchy"--still encourages respect of the Feminine Principal? The reforming Protestants discarded veneration of Mary as "Mariolatry." And they are upset because She has Pagan roots.
www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0040/0040_01.asp

[Retrograde]

61. I fail to see how TDVC is feminist, let alone a decent thriller

"TDVC (the book) is once over lightly. It seems a bit ironical that it was written by a man. I don't mind when it's Shakespeare, or the Monty Pythons, or the Beatles, or somebody with wit--true Goddess lovers. But I don't think Dan Brown is (a true Goddess lover). He strikes me as just another exploiter. (Don't know about Ron Howard, though. He's made some pretty good flicks.)"

The book lost me when the hero tosses a vital clue concealed in a bar of soap out a window of the Louvre, whereupon it lands on a conveniently passing "18-wheeler" (IIRC - an 18-wheeler that fits on the streets of Paris strained my suspension of disbelief). For someone who claims to have researched the novel intensively, Brown didn't seem to realize that the Louvre is BIG! Really really big! You may think it's a long walk down the street to the chemist but that's just peanuts compared to the Louvre (sorry, I can't help channeling Douglas Adams). That's when he lost me and I started looking for nits - or behemoths - to pick.

For a supposedly feminist book, the one major female character is, to put it mildly, somewhat dense and ineffectual ("The key word you're looking for is your own name, you ninny!" *Thunk* as the book hits the wall again). Not that the male ones are any great minds either.

"Witch-hunts, witch-burnings, book-burnings, inquisitions, pogroms, plagues, the death of learning, the loss of accumulated knowledge (in science, medicine, hygiene, astronomy, engineering, navigation, architecture, mathematics, philosophy, agriculture, the arts), the loss of literacy, and the loss of individual freedom, lasted THAT long. One thousand years."

It's a very complicated subject, and not all of it can be blamed on the rise of Christianity. Attitudes and reactions varied widely from time to time and place to place.

[tanyev]

34. A "tsunami headed their way"? Maybe God is punishing them.

[lovuian]

60. Lets face it Women have been suppressed by everybody

in history... Protestant and Catholic and most religions. Dan Brown book just reminded us of it and I think he brought to light secret societies like Opus Dei Freemasons Priory of Sion... just a few.......Yes its fiction but the Last Supper by DaVinci is not... I have looked at that picture many times and saw a man sitting next to Jesus but after Dan Brown's book I saw a woman...

Its amazing to learn that what we have been taught effects our eyesight...

Incredible mindcontrol and psychological stuff...millions have read it and been awaken and now even more will see it in the movies.......

[VegasWolf]

66. True, but the Catholic Church has EXCELLED at the suppression of women

and heretics( you know, wiccans ), and scientists, and .... There should be a special award just for the Catholic Church alone.

[Bridget Burke]

75. Please, show me some examples of Women of the Reformation....

Those given active roles in the new Protestant Churches. As far as "Science" goes--the Church got over that in the Renaissance. Roman Catholic schools have no problem teching Evolution--look elsewhere for proponents of "Intelligent Design."

Yes, the Church executed heretics. Look into history & you'll find plenty of Protestants killing for their faith, too.

"Wicca" is a recent invention. But Civil Courts killed more "witches" then religious ones--both Catholic & Protestant civil courts. The Church did not regard the old practices as a threat.

[Bridget Burke]

76. There is no such thing as the Priory of Sion.

It was a surrealist joke that fooled the writers of Holy Blood, Holy Grail. They have admitted their gullibility.

The Freemasons don't accept women, but it sounds as though you are confusing them with the Bavarian Illuminati. At least the Freemasons actually exist. And they do some good works.

How can Opus Dei be guilty of age-old persecution? It was founded in the 20th century.

Anyone who's read myth, religion, history, comparative religion & anthropology knows more about "gender politics" than those who get their knowledge from E! News. Perhaps Dan Brown's book & film will persuade a few people with IQ's in the 3-figure range to do some actual research.

[pschoeb]

63. He can't even make accurate statements

"There are no monks in Opus Dei, albino or otherwise," he repeats almost like a mantra. "Nobody here dresses in robes -- not even on Halloween. This is fiction."

The position of Numeraries in Opus Dei is not substantially different from a monastic brother/sisters as the term is generically used, so I would say that in reality their are "monks" of Opus Dei. It is pure semantics to say they are not. Opus Dei is not solely monastic, but the Numeraries are for all intents and purposes monks, and they make up 20% of Opus Dei members. Numeraries work, but give their salary to Opus Dei, which then gives them a stipend. Since many monks work outside of the monastery, this is not substantially different from monastic life. And Monks don't have to wear robes at all times, and non-monastic priests can were robes at all times if they so desire, so his statement about robes seems silly.

As an example, one could claim using semantics again, that there are no Franciscan monks, but most people would be confused. They are not technically termed monks, but mendicant friars, and their role is slightly different than say Benedictine orders that are monastic, but from a generic standpoint one would consider them "monks". Also to use Franciscans again as an example, one can be a Franciscan and not be a friar or nun, by being in the Secular Franciscan Order. I would think though that if one wrote a book that called Franciscans "monks" no one would say you were being inaccurate, despite the fact that the group is substantially similarly organized to Opus Dei.

[martymar64]

67. Maybe Opus Dei can educate us

on why they burned people alive as heretics and witches and backed slavery and genocide of indigenous people around the world. Answer that you Papist idol worshipping choirboy buggering fuckers!

[genieroze]

79. Huh, they were founded in 1928. Are you thinking of the Spanish

Inquisition which was in place from the late 1400s to the early 1800s? Do you feel that they are a offshoot? I guess anything is possible.

[cap]

72. mainstream Catholics find Opus Dei to be a weird cult

the Jesuits -- bastions of liberal rationality -- have been fighting Opus Dei.

You ask a Catholic person that you know personally about beatings and torture devices, subjugation of women and all the hyper control devices used by Opus Dei and s/he will tell you that it's bizarre and that, of course, nobody s/he knows does anything of the sort.

[cap]

73. mainstream Catholics find Opus Dei to be a weird cult

the Jesuits -- bastions of liberal rationality -- have been fighting Opus Dei.

You ask a Catholic person that you know personally about beatings and torture devices, subjugation of women and all the hyper control devices used by Opus Dei and s/he will tell you that it's bizarre and that, of course, nobody s/he knows does anything of the sort.