Climate change 'irreversible' as Arctic sea ice fails to re-form

[highplainsdem]

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article351135.ece

Climate change 'irreversible' as Arctic sea ice fails to re-form
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Published: 14 March 2006

Sea ice in the Arctic has failed to re-form for the second consecutive winter, raising fears that global warming may have tipped the polar regions in to irreversible climate change far sooner than predicted.

Satellite measurements of the area of the Arctic covered by sea ice show that for every month this winter, the ice failed to return even to its long-term average rate of decline. It is the second consecutive winter that the sea ice has not managed to re-form enough to compensate for the unprecedented melting seen during the past few summers.

Scientists are now convinced that Arctic sea ice is showing signs of both a winter and a summer decline that could indicate a major acceleration in its long-term rate of disappearance. The greatest fear is that an environmental "positive feedback" has kicked in, where global warming melts ice which in itself causes the seas to warm still further as more sunlight is absorbed by a dark ocean rather than being reflected by white ice.

-snip-

Professor Peter Wadhams, of Cambridge University, who was the first Briton to monitor Arctic sea ice from nuclear submarines, said: "One of the big changes this winter is that a large area of the Barents Sea has remained ice-free for the first time. This is part of Europe's 'back yard'. Climate models did predict a retreat of sea ice in the Barents Sea but not for a few decades yet, so it is a sign that the changes that were predicted are indeed happening, but much faster than predicted."

[lovuian]

1. The Pros predicted wrong and now North Pole is melting

way faster than these bozo's thought!!!

Now lets get a reality check here World what are we going to do here???

[opihimoimoi]

2. Better get the beach umbrellas and lounge chairs to higher ground

cause the sea level is gonna rise.

There is only one way to stem the tide....dig channels into areas below sea level.

The Deas Sea, Death Valley, etc...

[Tesha]

62. I'm not so sure the predictions were "wrong" as much as they were...

I'm not so sure the predictions were "wrong". I think it's more
likely that the scientists tended to speak more about the more
conservative models (that said global climate change was
happening, but slowly) rather than a lot of the more-likely
models that had it happening moderately fast. And they
especially didn't discuss the extremely pessimistic models
that had the climate "toggling" quickly from the okay to
the awful.

And even as it was, with their predctions toned way down,
the scientists were mocked as alarmists.

As it turns out, the alarming models look like they were the
more-accurate models.

'Guess the Bush-style faith-based science works about as
well as faith-based anything and no matter what, the
real world works according to real physical laws, not
the wishes and prayers of Republican politicians.

Tesha

[soothsayer]

3. Melting sea ice won't raise the ocean levels, just as melting ice

in yer scotch and club doesn't make the glass overflow.

[tom_paine]

7. If you had actually READ the story, you'd have noticed this

Although sea levels are not affected by melting sea ice - which floats on the ocean - the Arctic ice cover is thought to be a key moderator of the northern hemisphere's climate. It helps to stabilise the massive land glaciers and ice sheets of Greenland which have the capacity to raise sea levels dramatically

Which makes your comment...absolutely brilliant.

:sarcasm:

[Dogmudgeon]

13. When the boss yells at you, kick the cat.

THAT will teach her!

--p!

[progressoid]

27. Don't buy that Rush Limbaugh BS

The ice in the ocean is a minor symptom of a much bigger disease.

If all the ice in the world melts. the oceans might rise a few inches. We could cope with that (probably). BUT...this also means the warming of the oceans causes the water to expand...not just a few inches but a few feet. Most of the globe lives on coastal areas and waterways. Say goodbye to Norway. Say goodbye to Venice. Say goodbye to most islands. Say goodbye to New Orleans (again) & Florida & Manhattan & .....

[Doctor_J]

29. Actually, if the Antarctic ice melts,

the sea level will rise a hundred feet or more.

[mom cat]

57. You can see what diferent sea level changes with this tool here:

http://atlas.geo.cornell.edu/education/quest/

Select "Menu" (bottom left), click map area
On map area selector, chose area you want to see. Click "OK"
Select "Menu" again
Select "Data" Sets
Click selector arrow in top box (the one that says Earthquakes)
Select "Topography"
Click "Show sea level change"
Then click "Change in sea level" and put in the number of meters
Click "OK"
Ckick "Get Map"
It might take a little time, but then your map appears.

If the Antargtic melts, that would cause a water rise of around 60 meters. If thermal expansion of the oceans due to temperature rise and the melting of other ice is included, the level would be more like 80 meters.

[muriel_volestrangler]

71. Cool page (no pun intended) - thanks for that! (n/t)

[mom cat]

72. It is a great quickie to show people who think that global warmint is

just a soft summer breeze.

[FSogol]

32. Goodbye to Florida? So there is an upside?

;-)

[mzmolly]

67. LOL - only if Jeb is still governor.

And at the rate we're going, that might just be so!

[kestrel91316]

78. LOL, Norway will be just fine. Those steep-walled fjords will still be

steep-walled fjords. Buildings in their towns that sit right at sea level will have to be moved up the hillsides to sit with the rest of the buildings.

It's FLAT areas that have the most to lose - the entire Gulf Coast, much of the Eastern seaboard, Bangladesh, much of Polynesia/Pacific island states, Netherlands, etc.

[0007]

34. An analogy that isn't true, because most of the ice caps are on

land and not in the ocean.

[Norquist Nemesis]

40. Oh yes it does!!!!

If you take a piece of ice that goes from the bottom of the glass to above the rim and the scotch and club are at the rim.

[eppur_se_muova]

54. Melting ice on land WILL. Antarctica, Greenland icecaps both melting. nt

[lakeguy]

61. sure it will, along with increasing temperatures.

try letting that ice cube drip into yer full glass of scotch. then heat the whole thing up.

[strangemedicine]

73. James Hansen worries sea levels will rise 80 feet

RapidCityJournal.com
A couple of really smart scientist guys disagree with you.


Sam Hurst, 2-26: It's already too late
By Sam Hurst, Journal columnist

"Pat Zimmerman is a conservative fellow. I'm not talking about politics. I have no idea what his politics are ... or his religion. I'm talking about science. He's no Cassandra. He makes no exaggerated speculations.

Pat is a professor of atmospheric science at South Dakota School of Mines & Technology. We meet about every six months so that he can teach me about global warming. He's patient with me. He starts out slow. But invariably he forgets who he's talking to and by the time our main course arrives, I am lost in the chemistry of the greenhouse effect, the calculus of ocean currents and the elaborate ecological feedbacks of this complex problem. We had lunch last Tuesday, and Pat Zimmerman was different than I had ever seen him before. At first glance, he was the same old frumpy, spectacled professor. But he kept tapping his foot against the floor - faster and faster. The pitch of his voice was higher, more frantic. People at nearby tables began to listen to the tension in his voice. He seemed stressed out. Why?"

snip "Then there was the congressional testimony from James Hansen at NASA. When I first started reporting on global warming 15 years ago, Hansen was arguing that sea levels would rise 3 to 5 feet over a few hundred years. That was bad news for the Everglades and Bangladesh and Cape Cod, but there was time to do something about it.

Now Hansen is worried that sea levels will rise 80 feet! Eighty feet takes out the east coast. Zimmerman's descriptions of what is going on are laced with the word "exponential."" snip

The article goes on to describe how the glacial runoff disrupts the ocean currents, acting like a pump, adding to the ferocity of hurricanes here .... like Katrina. We've reached the tipping point --devastating tornados, fires brought on by drought that are destroying miles of our country.

At the end of the article, Sam Hurst asks Dr. Zimmerman what we can do for our children, who must live in this world we have helped create.

"Teach our children to think critically. They are going to need to know how to think."

To read this article in its entirety, go to http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2006/02/26/news/opinion/opin820.txt

[strangemedicine]

74. James Hansen worries sea levels will rise 80 feet

A couple of really smart scientist guys disagree with you.
From the Rapids City Journal

"Sam Hurst, 2-26: It's already too late
By Sam Hurst, Journal columnist"

"Pat Zimmerman is a conservative fellow. I'm not talking about politics. I have no idea what his politics are ... or his religion. I'm talking about science. He's no Cassandra. He makes no exaggerated speculations.

Pat is a professor of atmospheric science at South Dakota School of Mines & Technology. We meet about every six months so that he can teach me about global warming. He's patient with me. He starts out slow. But invariably he forgets who he's talking to and by the time our main course arrives, I am lost in the chemistry of the greenhouse effect, the calculus of ocean currents and the elaborate ecological feedbacks of this complex problem. We had lunch last Tuesday, and Pat Zimmerman was different than I had ever seen him before. At first glance, he was the same old frumpy, spectacled professor. But he kept tapping his foot against the floor - faster and faster. The pitch of his voice was higher, more frantic. People at nearby tables began to listen to the tension in his voice. He seemed stressed out. Why?"

snip "Then there was the congressional testimony from James Hansen at NASA. When I first started reporting on global warming 15 years ago, Hansen was arguing that sea levels would rise 3 to 5 feet over a few hundred years. That was bad news for the Everglades and Bangladesh and Cape Cod, but there was time to do something about it.

Now Hansen is worried that sea levels will rise 80 feet! Eighty feet takes out the east coast. Zimmerman's descriptions of what is going on are laced with the word "exponential."" snip

The article goes on to describe how the glacial runoff disrupts the ocean currents, acting like a pump, adding to the ferocity of hurricanes here .... like Katrina. We've reached the tipping point --devastating tornados, fires brought on by drought that are destroying miles of our country.

At the end of the article, Sam Hurst asks Dr. Zimmerman what we can do for our children, who must live in this world we have helped create.

"Teach our children to think critically. They are going to need to know how to think."

To read this article in its entirety, go to http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2006/02/26/news/opinion/opin820.txt

[gauguin57]

4. Crap! Now, what do I do with the tuna and powdered milk

under my bed? It'll get all soggy!

[soothsayer]

5. here, kitty kitty

[Dover]

6. Let's all paint our rooftops white. And the roads and the hills and ....

That or start painting cave art.

[SoCalDem]

8. Some europeans DID "paint" rocks on a mountain white

to try and preserve what snow they had..and to try and salvage the skiing.. Might be the Matterhorn.. It's been a while, but I do remember reading about it.. They used white plastic sheeting too.. That's sad in so many ways..

[Raine]

9. We have nothing to worry about

chimp says there is no such thing so we're sitting pretty. :sarcasm:

[saigon68]

15. YOU MEAN THIS SUB-HUMANOID TYPE?

[ixion]

16. that's from one of his press conferences

lol... great pic... very accurate. :evilgrin:

[saigon68]

38. This one too

[Raine]

66. Oh Gawd

ROFLMAO!!! :rofl:

[bobbieinok]

10. which will get us first with the most hurt bushco destruction of US

or the destruction of the environment???

[jwirr]

42. Countries in empires tend to survive at a lower level with

the fall of the empire but environmental destruction has an altogether worse ending.

[leftchick]

11. okay, this is the scariest fucking thing I have read yet!

:cry:

[earth mom]

51. Me too and I'm getting sick of being afraid and sick

of the lies and criminal deeds all for the sake of the almighty dollar! Our poor earth! :cry:

[Dogmudgeon]

12. Oh shit.

I didn't think that this would happen for another five to ten years or so.

And they call ME an apocalyptic!

--p!
"Hello, Katie?
It's me, Pigsy.
Bar the door, will ya, dear?"

[Joanne98]

14. thankyou rush limpballs

[Nothing Without Hope]

17. ***See also this related story on the record & sharply rising CO2 level:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2165302
thread title (3-14-06 LBN): Sharp rise in CO2 levels recorded
BBC. Excerpt: “US climate scientists have recorded a significant rise in the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, pushing it to a new record level. BBC News has learned the latest data shows CO2 levels now stand at 381 parts per million (ppm) - 100ppm above the pre-industrial average. The research indicates that 2005 saw one of the largest increases on record - a rise of 2.6ppm.”

K & R

[bikebloke]

43. The Weather Makers by Tim Flannery

I started reading it last night. He mentions the CO2 levels rising form the advent of the Industrial Age. Explains carbon's role in climate. I'm waiting for lunch time so I can delve back into it.

[niallmac]

18. "Nature Always Bats Last"

Saw that bumper sticker a few years ago and I found it strangely comforting.
I know what comes our way won't be comfortable at all. I'm just a big nature fan.

[AndyA]

19. I read a report once

That said the Earth has always had colder periods and hotter periods throughout its history, and they can last for varying amounts of time. It suggested that we're just in a hotter period right now, and that things would eventually cool off again. This was substantiated by rock formations that indicated the temperature cycle differences throughout history.

It's been a while since I read it, but it suggested that even with the ozone issue, this cycle was necessary for the Earth to survive, and that it would repair itself and cool off again, as it has done many times before. These cycles can last hundreds of years, and evolve slowly.

I have no idea how credible it was, seems a professor wrote it, but it made sense to me at the time.

:o You don't suppose it was Republican propaganda and I bought it do you?!?!?!?!?!

[Bridget Burke]

20. Yes, there have been climate cycles throughout history.

But many scientists believe that human industry has contributed to the latest warming trend.

Even a totally "natural" change would be cause for concern. Yes, the Earth will be OK in the long run. But we humans will suffer in the short term. Too bad we don't have a government that gives a shit about people.

[WinkyDink]

21. The PLANET will "survive"; after all, we DO have Mars, Jupiter, etc.

It's the various LIFE FORMS that might not. Duh.

So your professor's paper is completely pointless, regarding the future of humanity.

[Teaser]

22. "Ozone issue"???

You do realize that "ozone depletion" is not the samething as "global climate change", right?

[NickB79]

56. Climatic swings are common throughout Earth's history

But if you look at a graph showing the peaks and valleys over the past few million years, you would see that our current peak is going up much faster and higher than all previous peaks we've been able to weed out of the fossil record.

We may be in a natural peak, but we are accelerating it unnaturally fast and pushing it unnaturally high with the CO2 we are dumping into the air.

[killbotfactory]

70. The ozone issues was helped by the fact that we DID SOMETHING

Countries started banning chemicals that caused the ozone to degrade, which allowed the ozone layter to replenish itself, not because it wasn't really ever a problem.

People have a tendancy to not realize that a lot of the problems of the past were solved because we actually made the effort to fix it, and not because nature is magical and will always find a way.

[kestrel91316]

79. Oh, the earth will survive. But what matters most to your average

sports fan is whether "intelligent" life will survive.

I happen to think we have screwed the pooch and now our days are numbered. Oh, but lots of folks made a short-term killing in the stock market, so it's ok.

[Minnesota Libra]

23. BUT, BUT Bush said there was ........

......no global warming. We're forgetting that if Bush said it isn't so then it just isn't so.:sarcasm:

[hatrack]

24. Gazing into my crystal ball, I can see . . . Studies! Yes that's it!

More studies! That's the kind of bold, decisive leadership we've come to expect from this administration, and we're going to see even more of it now!!

On edit: Another fearless prediction! I boldly predict that Bush will, in about a month either (A) hold a pruning saw and stand next to some trees in order to be photographed or (B) roll up his sleeves and stand next to a river, potentially with trees in the background in order to be photographed.

Don't you feel more confident knowing that these kinds of daring initiatives are on the way?

:puke:

[madmom]

25. No ice on the great lakes this year...

first time in history.

[stop the bleeding]

26. People just do not get it...

:cry:

We are gonna see dramatic changes in the next few years

:cry:

:cry:

:cry:

:cry:

[hatrack]

28. There were 113 tornadoes on Sunday, according to preliminary reports

In one day, we got about one-third of all the tornadoes that are normally reported nationally for an entire year.

Three times last summer we had tropical storms turn into Cat-5 hurricanes in 30 hours or less - and one of those storms was the strongest ever recorded in the Western Hemisphere.

Am I positing a direct correlation between these events and the topic of the original story posted here? No, because that kind of one-to-one causality is too simplistic.

However, I will be so bold as to advance the fairly unremarkable idea that things are really and truly meteorologically fucked up thanks to the general climate breakdown trends we've already seen to date.

I will also take a stab at saying that we are going to be seeing many more of these kinds of remarkable events in the very near future - for instance, late this summer and into the fall in the Gulf of Mexico.

And if you read this story, please vote it up.

[KansDem]

33. One ripped through Lawrence, Kansas on Sunday...

Damaged 70% of the buildings on the University of Kansas campus. The KU campus was closed on Monday, which I believe was the first weather-related closing other than ice or snow in its history.

But Bush still insists on "sound science"--or the kind of "science" that "sounds" good to him.

[daleo]

47. If tornadoes destroy universities

Then there will be none of those nasty scientists left to say unpleasant things. Bush won't mind, as long as the weapons labs are ok.

[file83]

50. If you haven't read "The Coming Global Superstorm" yet, you should...

...Amazon link

When I read it back in 2001 I thought it was just a fun piece of fiction based on faux science. But as the years have progressed, the climate has been doing EXACTLY what the book has predicted so far. Not good.

[skip fox]

30. The saddest day in any of our lives?

Couldn't it be a day, like today, when our worst fear was confirmed: that our world is doomed to catastrophic violent weather and climate change and our species headed toward extinction?

[ramapo]

39. Extinction? Probably not....

Mass upheaval is far more likely. End-of-society-as-we-know-it, possibly.

Many species will be driven to extinction because they do not have as much flexibility to cope. Some will adapt.

The planet will be fine. Mom Earth has been through many changes, some most catastrophic to the primary species of the times. The fact that we've brought this upon ourselves, first through ignorance, then through denial and ignorance, makes the coming ecological changes somewhat tragic.

In the end, Mom Earth will clean up much of our mess...

[toopers]

31. How does anyone know this?

The earth has gone through periods of heating and cooling. Just because the caps are melting does not mean we will never enter into another ice age.

[Bridget Burke]

35. The planet will continue to go through periods of heating & cooling...

But not all species will survive. Including ours.

[QuettaKid]

44. SOME of this species will survive

those of us with access to underground bunkers and lots and lots of ammo, food, water, etc.

[skip fox]

49. Boy, I hope so. But I really hope it's reversible and that the leaders

of the nations decide to put aside whatever brought us to this point, find the best solutions, and spare no expense in applying them. And I hope it works. (But I also hope to win the lottery.)

[file83]

53. You have obviously not been introduced to the theory that...

...says, basically, ice ages are born from global warming. (Take it with a "grain of salt", but this theory is beginning to win more and more supporters because it's predictions are beginning to prove accurate.)

You see, "in between" ice ages the climate is stable, but due to natural fluctuations in green house gases and heat (volcanoes, bio mass, solar variations), the Earth will start to warm up. There is also a new factor of green house gas: Fossil Fuel Emissions. What's happening with the human factor is that global warming is occuring faster than it would naturally, it's aiding and speeding up the natural cycle. This is when it starts to get ugly...

The normal global ocean currents act like a heat exchange between the equatorial regions and the polar regions. This distributes the heat of the earth more evenly. When the earth starts to warm up, the ice caps start to melt, the salinity of the oceans decrease, which causes the global ocean currents to shift (North Atlantic Current - as it is called). Now, when the ocean currents shift, the heat and cold stop mixing and the set up for a violent situation occurs. What happens is that the Northern latitudes start to rapidly (matter of months) cool off and the Equatorial regions begin heating up above normal - this creates a large variation in temperatures between the middle and northern hemispheres.

With these kinds of increased variances in temperature betweem the hemispheres, as the theory goes, unusual weather patterns will begin to occur, regular storm patterns will increase in size and strength, and then something called a "Superstorm" will arise from these conditions. As the climate's "self balancing" mechanism, it will mix the humid atmosphere from the equatorial regions with the super cold air from the upper troposphere (and northern latitudes). This results in a storm that will blanket the entire northern hemisphere in snow and ice. Hence, a new ice age.

The movie "The Day After Tomorrow" greatly distorted this theory (for dramatic reasons) but was loosely based on it. The book "The Coming Global Superstorm" explains the process in much better detail.

[arwalden]

36. Is Limbaugh Still Calling This "Junk Science"?

[Ishoutandscream2]

37. Oh, this is just liberal hogwash

Now, get back to your Bibles. God will take care of everything. I mean, the earth has survived for 10,000 years. It will surely last another 10,000, unless our Lord and Savior decides to suck us up to his Kingdom before then. Hallelujah!!!:silly:

[wickerwoman]

84. He sure does seem pissed about those gays though.

If all them homer-sexuals would just cut it out, I'm sure God would stop tinkering with the climate.

[jwirr]

41. In the continental drift theory the poles shift positions.

Does this idea play into the climate change ideas of today?

[iconoclastNYC]

45. Ahh more liberal commie scheming to destroy the american economy.

Excuse me while I gas up my Hummer and lament the size of my small penis. :sarcasm:

[henslee]

46. No fair! I dont want to live during this time of fucked-up-ness. God,

I demand a do-over.

[Khaotic]

48. Al Gore Called This One ...

but this isn't a game of I told you so.

I don't think his movie can come out quick enough.

If you didn't catch his PowerPoint on Global Warming on Link TV a couple of weeks ago, then check it out on the 'Net. Here's a good link: http://www.archive.org/details/molemedia20040115_gore

He's been giving the fucking speech and presentation for years now. People continue to ask him why he didn't talk about this in 2000. His response ... "I did, the media didn't cover it."

You know what, he's right, they didn't.

If you disagree you're head is in the fucking sand. The '96 Telecommunications Act fucked us all when it came to giving a free pass to media consolidation. By 2000 the media was already sterile and bought.

Shit ... it started happening much before '96 actually, but to get into the timeline is pretty lengthy ... check out Bill Moyers speech in St. Louis from last year if you need to educate yourself.

Bottomline, the info is out there, people aren't getting the message because the media doesn't want to talk about it. It's on the same popularity level as rigged voting machines. Bring it up and they break out the tinfoil hats and chill the Kool Aid.

Fuck 'em!

This is it ... unless we want to live in deep caves and wait it out until nature heals the earth (some 15 million years or so), we're fucked if the ice caps melt.

We'll be faced with turning over all the economies of the world to crazy ideas to save the world. Shit right out of the movie Armagedon or The Core. Instead we'll be creating giant freezing rods to try and pull off refreezing the Artic like a hockey rink. Sounds like some kind of crazy Howard Hughes idea, but it might be the only fucking thing left after the North Pole melts.

I really hope Al Gore's movie can spark debate and wake some fuckin' people the FUCK up!

Here's the one sheet:



I think it opens May 26. Not soon enough if you ask me. Another good link: http://www.climatecrisis.net/index.html

Doom 'n Gloom my ass, this is dismal shit people. Nothing religous about it, pure science and it all points to we're fucked.

[mzmolly]

68. Not only did he talk about it, he had written books on the subject -

still Nader managed to equate Gore to Bush on the environment, among other things. :eyes:

[glitch]

77. That was when I lost all respect for Ralph Nader. nt

[mzmolly]

81. Me as well,

biiiig let down.

[skip fox]

52. To advance the rhetoric to match the situation: "global heating"???

On revision: Or maybe "global burning"???

I hope not, but . . .

[eppur_se_muova]

55. Toast ? I hope not. nt

[stanwyck]

58. Meanwhile, the freepers are reading Crichton's

latest drivel which they'll believe instead of the scientists. Why believe scientific facts when you've got a rightwing hack fiction writer who will feed you the Bush Kool-Aid?
Do rightwingers even take science classes?
We know their math is poor.

[nolabels]

59. My math is poor too.

I sometimes even come out ranting about nonsense. There is much irony in freeper think but mostly it's their hypocrisy that gets them there. At 47 years of age I have lived 17 years longer than I thought I might so with no offspring everything after this is just gravy for me anyway. Hell some organisms may like or benefit from what is happening

Source: University Of Georgia

Posted: November 17, 1998
The Fire Down Below -- Extreme Heat-Loving Organisms May Be Keys To Molecular Evolution And Origin Of Life, New Book Argues

ATHENS, Ga. -- Poet Robert Frost famously wrote that "some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice." Though scientists can make educated guesses at the final convulsions of the planet, they are far more comfortable searching for its origins. New evidence, discovered in the past decade, now indicates that life on Earth may have originated close to the fire down below.

Indeed, hyperthermophiles -- the extreme heat-loving microorganisms that flourish at and above the boiling point of water -- could be a key to unlocking both evolution and the origin of life itself.
(snip)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981117080705.htm

btw I know this is real old stuff but there is chance some freeper might read it and figure out who or what his maker really is :shrug:

[Blue_Tires]

60. and yet, so many people i know

refuse to even believe it, much less modify their views or behaviors

[Delphinus]

63. I'm glad this is in LBN ...

too often, stories wind up in the Environment forum with not enough people seeing them.

[hatrack]

64. I'll second that emotion - with a kick, of course!

:toast: to your sentiments, Delphinus!

[truth2power]

65. What I can't fathom

is how ANY other country in the world even talks to us anymore. This affects them, too, and yet far too many are willing to suck Bush's dick. Ugh!! Are they going to let us destroy the entire planet? We must be promising them some heavy-duty shit, paid for with worthless paper.

I am just so damn outraged tonight - between those Abu Ghraib pictures, starring the ho' Lyndie and her main squeeze, Graner, and this....we have no hope of pulling ourselves out of this pit of filth. When is it ever going to stop? :cry:

[killbotfactory]

69. This is a REAL threat to our "american way of life"

The republicans are letting it happen, because they'd rather listen to lobbyists than scientists. We can do things to slow/stop this, but these fuckers won't lift a finger.

[gristy]

75. Tonight, it is raining in the US. It is snowing absolutely nowhere

[Up2Late]

76. Then there's this: Global warming gases at highest levels ever: UN

Global warming gases at highest levels ever: UN

Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:25 AM ET14

By Robert Evans

GENEVA (Reuters) - Greenhouse gases blamed for global warming and climate change have reached their highest ever levels in the atmosphere, the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) said on Tuesday. A bulletin from the United Nations agency said the gases -- the main warming culprit carbon dioxide (CO2), methane and nitrous oxide -- "all reached new highs in 2004."

WMO officials also indicated that a near record year-on-year rise in CO2 levels for 2005 recorded by U.S. monitors -- well above the average for the past 10 years -- would not come as a major surprise. "Global observations coordinated by WMO show that levels of carbon dioxide, the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, continue to increase steadily and show no signs of leveling off," said WMO Secretary-General Michel Jarraud.

Carbon dioxide, which the WMO says accounts for 90 percent of warming over the past decade, is largely generated by human activity involving the burning of fossil fuels -- including in industry, transport and domestic heating.

Scientists warn emissions must be slowed and reduced if the earth is to avoid climatic havoc with devastating heat waves, droughts, floods and rising sea-levels sinking low-lying island states and hitting seaboard cities like New York and London. The U.N.'s 1992 Kyoto Protocol, which came into force last year after a decade of wrangling, obliges major industrial nations to cut emissions while granting exemptions to developing countries like India and China.

(more at link below)

<http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-03-14T152536Z_01_L14557931_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENVIRONMENT-GREENHOUSE.xml&archived=False>

[Psephos]

80. They mean, "ever since we started measuring them"

That's a very misleading headline.

Greenhouse gases have been massively higher in earlier epochs - and massively lower. Google "Snowball Earth" for an example.

Earth couldn't care less about preserving its current climate. There have been millions of years during which the planet was a giant iceball, with glaciers reaching almost down to the equator, and equal periods of insufferable heat and high oceans drowning the continents. The most interesting thing is to see how each extreme sowed the seeds for the coming of its opposite. Some of the same buffering effects are already in place during the current rise in CO2 levels. A number of these have to do with increased absorption of CO2 from the air by thriving plants. When they die, these plants bury their carbon load underground, or in the case of ocean algae, as detritus on the seafloor. Visit the coal seams of West Virginia for an example of how CO2 was purged from the air during the Carboniferous Age 300 million years ago. The CO2 levels in those days were triple or quadruple current levels. A few million years later Earth underwent a global extinction as CO2 levels plummeted. And then back again....

We have lived in a particularly mild climate for the last 10,000 years, since the retreat of the last glaciers. Clear geological evidence has shown that this pleasant little intermission is an anomoly, and that we've been due for a change because of factors far beyond our control. Due to interplay between orbital and rotation-wobbling cycles in Earth's movements, and rhythmic changes in the output of the Sun, the next ice age is near. Not in a century or two, but within a few thousand years at most.

Greenhouse gases of human origin are contributing to cycles already long in place, but even with no humans, the climate would be doing what it has done relentlessly since Earth formed. Change.

We can and should limit our impact on the atmosphere, but even if every country on Earth adopted Kyoto tomorrow, the total effect would be somewhere between small and unmeasurable on CO2 levels in the coming century. Kyoto as a political issue is red hot, but as science, it solves nothing, not even close. I support global conformity to Kyoto, but mostly as a tool to get us thinking about pollution.

The best practical approach is to do what humans have always done, adapt to change. It was such adaptation during the genetically stressful advance of the glaciers in the last ice age that gave humanity its final evolutionary push. Not such a bad thing, after all. We are Earth's most adaptable, general purpose animals. Change is what we're good at.

Peace.

[Up2Late]

82. I think most of us figured that out.

Headline are limited by length.

[Psephos]

83. Heh heh - point taken n/t

[PaulaFarrell]

85. Actually, they mean for the last 30 million years

Carbon dioxide in atmosphere 'at record high' after huge increase

THE amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere is at a record high after a massive rise.

New data from America shows that CO2 levels are now at 381 parts per million (ppm) - 100ppm above the pre-industrial average.

The US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa) analysis of air samples from around the world also shows that 2005 saw a rise of 2.6ppm, one of the largest increases on record.

Dr Pieter Tans, the chief carbon dioxide analyst for Noaa, said the latest data confirmed that average increases in recent years stand at double the rate of those only 30 years ago. "We don't see any sign of a decrease; in fact, we're seeing the opposite, the rate of increase is accelerating," he said.

Professor Sir David King, the British government's chief scientific adviser, said the figures showed urgent action was necessary to reduce carbon emissions, with CO2 levels at their highest for 30 million years . "Mankind is changing the climate," he said.

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=382082006

[Kailassa]

86. kicking

[Matilda]

87. And still the neanderthals that run your country and mine

refuse to listen.

Why? Because putting in climate control measures would hamper the big corporations from making
huge profits. And there will always be trolls in the scientific community who will back their
stand if enough bucks are waved at them.

But their grandchildren will suffer for it as will ours. The difference is that they don't care.