Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Icy "super-Earth" found around faraway star (Reuters)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 01:48 AM
Original message
Icy "super-Earth" found around faraway star (Reuters)
(Don't tell *, he'll start planning the mission to "Super-Earth.")

Icy "super-Earth" found around faraway star



Mon Mar 13, 2006 08:09 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A cold, heavy "super-Earth" has been found orbiting a distant star, using a method that holds promise for detecting faraway planets that closely resemble our own, astronomers said on Monday. The planet weighs 13 times as much as Earth and is orbiting a star about 9,000 light-years away. But instead of circling close to its star, as Earth does, this "super-Earth" is about as distant from its star as Jupiter and Saturn are from the Sun.

An international team of scientists figured the new planet probably has a temperature of minus 330 degrees F (minus 201 C), making it one of the coldest planets detected outside our solar system. The discovery is billed as a super-Earth because it is thought to be a rocky, terrestrial planet like Earth, even though it is much more massive.

The planet was detected by astronomers using a project called OGLE -- short for Optical Gravitational Lensing Experiment -- which looks for changes in light coming from distant stars. If another star passes between the faraway star and a telescope on Earth, the gravity of the intervening star acts like a lens and magnifies the incoming light.

When a planet is orbiting the closer star, the planet's gravity can add its own distinctive signature to the light. This phenomenon is known as gravitational microlensing, and it has the potential to detect less massive planets than other methods of searching for planets around other stars.

(more at link below)

<http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=11517952&src=rss/topNews>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. What's with the silly "super-earth" label?
This planet sounds about as UN-earthlike as can be,
so why are they using that silly name?

OK, nitpicking over. It's cool that they are getting better at finding planets;
and they seem to be finding them EVERYWHERE they decide to look.

What with finding planets everywhere, and WATER in some very unexpected places,
how long till we finally find absolute PROOF of life out there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. It has a surface, for one thing.
How many planets in our solar system have an earth-like surface?

"What with finding planets everywhere, and WATER in some very unexpected places,
how long till we finally find absolute PROOF of life out there?"

I don't have a fuckin clue. But I'm sure it will be awesome beyond belief. ;)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. It's double-plus-good!
;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. They just mean a big rocky planet
It sounds like it has about 2 times the diameter of the earth, but is composed of terrestrial material - thus "super-Earth".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Yeah, I have finally 'caught on', after following this thread (+ links)
I can see the reasons they are using that type
of description; there's a certain logic to it.

Just doesn't seem very scientific to me;
more like 'TV headline' logic.

But I get it now, so I'll be 'up to speed'
as they discover the next few hundred of them!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Here's hoping they find a regular earth someday
With signs of life (I think spectral lines of oxygen would indicate life). That would certainly shake things up, back here.

I agree it is headline vocabulary. Astronomers usually use the term "terrestrial planets" for the earth-like rocky ones.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh god let's go there and get away from Bush.
Let's get outta here before the republicans take us down the toilet!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. Impossible, of course.....
Since the Universe is only 6,000 years old, nothing more distant than 6,000 light years could be visible.

:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
life_long_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I agree, because scientist's don't know anything.
Edited on Tue Mar-14-06 03:00 AM by life_long_dem
How could they possibly make such an assumption? (obvious sarcasm)
What is it with these YEC idiots? Oh yeah, I forgot, satan is trying to deceive us.(banging head against desk).
P.S. Welcome to sanity, (DU).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. "moratorium on creationist jokes"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
life_long_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. I understand what Norton is saying, but if my post is a reply to
someone then Norton doesn't have to read it. She/he needs to scan the subject lines if their not interested in reading every post.
Thanks for the link....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I was only playing around.
Plus, my reply wasn't directed at you. Your reply showed some ingenuity. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
life_long_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I rarely post anything lately. Wait till the 2006 elections and I'll have
over 1000 posts in no time. I didn't mean to sound annoyed, it's late and I'm tired. Have a great night...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. About a decade ago, orthodox scientists were pooh-poohing the chances
for life elsewhere in the universe, because they hadn't discovered any planets--they thought planet formation might be rare--and no indications of water (the medium of life as we know it), etc., etc. Now they're finding planets all over the place--some thirty of them found with telescopes, recently, mostly gaseous giants like Saturn (because the smaller orbs are still hard to see), and now this rock/ice 'giant earth,' found by gravitational lensing; AND, we now have FIVE, count 'em (Earth, Mars, Titan, Europa and, recently discovered, Enceladus--a moon of Saturn) probable sources of WATER in this solar system alone (a tiny speck in the big picture.) FIVE!

The odds for life--and for sentient, civilized life--have gone up, well, astronomically, in the last few years. In fact, given the above, both life and sentient life are likely ABUNDANT in the universe.

Another contributing factor--to the abundance of life--is the discovery on earth of life forms that can exist in extreme temperatures of hot and cold, and some undersea plants that are not even oxygen-based.

If you're depressed and demoralized by what's happening on this tiny piece (the U.S.) of this speck of dust (earth)--the Bush junta and all--think about LIFE EVERYWHERE, some of it more advanced than ours, some not, some familiar forms of life, some very strange, and, surely, some forms of life, and even conscious life, that we can't even conceive of. We are such little specks of dust ourselves, but with BIG EYES and also big hearts, I think, and yearning minds.

Life on earth developed by Mother Nature creating a huge variety of forms out of the primeval soup--a staggering plethora of life, a cornucopia--of which only a few forms survived various planetary disasters and evolutionary processes, to become the forms we see today. Why would it work any differently in the universe as a whole? Why think of the universe as cold and empty? In may in fact be a feast of life. And speculative science, and current theories of physics, most certainly do present the PROBABILITY that the vast distances that we perceive are not the obstacles that they appear to be, as to travel. I think we are right at the cusp of discovering OTHER forms of travel that shorten those distances.

Bush aside, it is a tremendously exciting time to be alive--to see the universe with the eyes of Hubble, as no human beings have ever seen it before, and to be part of a civilization that is making these INCREDIBLE, MIND-BOGGLING discoveries.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Woah!
"About a decade orthodox scientists were skeptical that life existed elsewhere in the universe"?

Where the heck did you get that idea? It's been scientists saying "the universe is a big complex place - let's look closer while looking beyond".

"...and now they're finding planets all over the place"

That's what prevailing scientists have expected to find for at least a few hundred years now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. I didn't save the articles/books. I wish I had. But I remember reading
this in all sorts of science articles--life rare, planets rare, planetary systems rare, planetary systems like ours extremely rare, water rare, and the conditions for the development of life--just the right size planet, just so far from its sun, etc., etc.--might even be unique.

Maybe I have the era wrong--possibly 15 to 20 years ago (not ten). (I'm getting old, and the decades start to meld together.)

I remember being amazed--with the numbers in the universe so vast. Even with no discoveries of planets yet, and no evidence of water in our solar system (except on earth), the numbers of stars and galaxies are just so staggering, you'd think they'd be more cautious in making generalizations, and in presuming so much from our extremely limited knowledge and experience--was my thought at the time.

And I am so glad that these more conservative scientists are being proved wrong. I've often thought that modern science (or some trends of thought within it) is too linear--not taking into consideration that Mother Nature sometimes just goes nuts, and creates and creates and creates. Chaos theory, particle physics and cosmology edge more toward the truth of things, that, at bottom, everything is nothing--matter is self-annihilating--and in the biggest perspective, everything is MORE than everything. And there are no rules. Or, rather, what we THINK are the rules keep becoming not the rules.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Did you ever see this Hubble Ultra Deep Field photo's from 2004?
Edited on Tue Mar-14-06 03:46 AM by Up2Late
This photo is all the proof I need to know that we are not unique in such a massive Universe.

Most-Distant Galaxy Candidates in the Hubble Ultra Deep Field



If you go to the bottom of the page at this link: <http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/entire_collection/pr2004028b/>,

you can view or download a much larger version (13.86 MB jpeg, or 141.26 MB TIFF) which show a lot more detail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Perspective, indeed. :)
You've probably seen the Astronomy Picture of the Day site?


Credit: C. R. O'Dell and S. K. Wong (Rice U.), WFPC2, HST, NASA,

Explanation: How do planets form? Astronomers are finding out by studying one of the most interesting of all astronomical nebulae known, the Great Nebula in Orion. Insets to above mosaic show several planetary systems in formation. The bottom left insert shows the relative size of our own Solar System. The Orion Nebula contains many stellar nurseries. These nurseries contain hydrogen gas, hot young stars, proplyds, and stellar jets spewing material at high speeds. Much of the filamentary structure visible in this image are actually shock waves - fronts where fast moving material encounters slow moving gas. Some shock waves are visible near one of the bright stars in the lower left of the picture. The Orion Nebula is located in the same spiral arm of our Galaxy as is our Sun.

Planetary Systems Now Forming in Orion

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Wah.


There's really quite a lot of galaxies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Yes, and that is just a very tiny part of the universe that before Hubble.
...it had been thought to be empty, or at least so dark that none of the pre-Hubble telescopes could see anything in that part of the universe.

If you look at the high-res photo, you'll see that almost everything visible in that photo is a Galaxy in one for or another.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. If I recall correctly, there has been speculation
about water on Europa for some time now, but otherwise, you're completely right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FVZA_Colonel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. I know this is going to sound really silly,
but why not name it Hoth?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. Moab, from Halo Jones, I suggest, according to it's high gravity

Although it should be bigger, really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. But is it an M-class planet?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Right. No. :) nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. Sounds Demon-class
maybe the homeworld of the Bree.

I'm officially the biggest geek in the universe now. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quetzal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. The Bree
Never turn your back on the Bree

-Cardassian saying

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. So Bree is the Cardassian word for everybody?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. "'Super Earth' Discovered at Nearby Star" - Aug 25 2004
Edited on Tue Mar-14-06 03:24 AM by greyl


'Super Earth' Discovered at Nearby Star
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer
posted: 25 August 2004
10:06 am ET

In a discovery that has left one expert stunned, European astronomers have found one of the smallest planets known outside our solar system, a world about 14 times the mass of our own around a star much like the Sun.

It could be a rocky planet with a thin atmosphere, a sort of "super Earth," the researchers said today.

But this is no typical Earth. It completes its tight orbit in less than 10 days, compared to the 365 required for our year. Its daytime face would be scorched.

The planet's surface conditions aren't known, said Portuguese researcher Nuno Santos, who led the discovery. "However, we can expect it to be quite hot, given the proximity to the star."

Hot as in around 1,160 degrees Fahrenheit (900 Kelvin), Santos told SPACE.com.

Still, the discovery is a significant advance in technology: No planet so small has ever been detected around a normal star. And the finding reveals a solar system more similar to our own than anything found so far.

Terrestrial in nature

The star is like our Sun and just 50 light-years away. A light-year is the distance light travels in a year, about 6 trillion miles (10 trillion kilometers). Most of the known extrasolar planets are hundreds or thousands of light-years distant.


http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/super_earth_040825.html
http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2004/pr-22-04.html


Super-Earth has no nebulous meaning among astronomical researchers, but I'd bet the "discoverers" aren't immune to some salesmanship toward the media outlets now and again. You know, with public funding of science being as religiously frugal as it is...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yes, "Super-earth" makes a better headline, as opposed to...
..."Massive distant frozen Rocky planet."

Plus, maybe it's were "Super Man" is from, I mean, who can spell Krypton?:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yep, here's a different Super-Earth from last month. :)

Getting to the Cores of Jupiter, Saturn and Exoplanets
02.27.06
(Source: University of Minnesota)

This work builds on the authors' recent work on Earth's inner layers and represents a step toward understanding how all planets, including Earth, come to acquire their individual characteristics. The research is published in the Feb. 17 issue of Science.

In the previous work, Wentzcovitch and her colleagues studied the D" (Dee double prime) layer deep in the Earth. D" runs from zero to 186 miles thick and surrounds the iron core of our planet. It lies just below Earth's mantle, which is largely composed of a mineral called perovskite, consisting of magnesium, silicon and oxygen. Wentzcovitch and her team calculated that in D" the great temperatures and pressures changed the structure of perovskite crystals, transforming the mineral into one called 'post-perovskite.'

In the new work, the researchers turned their attention to the cores of the giant planets of our solar system--Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune--and two recently discovered extrasolar planets, or exoplanets, found elsewhere in the Milky Way. One, referred to as Super-Earth, is about seven times the mass of Earth and orbits a star 15 light-years away in the constellation Aquarius.

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/display.cfm?News_ID=13916
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. It's because it's rock and ice, and not a gaseous giant, like the distant
planets that have been discovered by other methods. It's the first SOLID planet discovered outside our solar system.

An absolutely momentous discovery, really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. No, it not the first apparently, greyl posted two other reports above...
...that talk about 3 others (Post #7 and #12)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. Oh dear...
I've gone all head-explodey trying to figure out if I should make

a) an obnoxious Stallone reference,

b) an obnoxious Bullwinkle reference, or

c) an obnoxious Frankenfurter reference.

<sigh>

It's hard work being obnoxious...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. Let me guess....it's inhabited by Super-Men?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
27. That's cool and all.
In fact, it's really very interesting. But no planet out there can ever be a satisfactory replacement for this:



We had better try to save this jewel. It is, after all, our home.

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Well, we're NOT saving it, and that's a fact. Sometimes I think we're...
...genetically wired to live unsustainably. It's not new with us. We've been wiping out forests, and fertile lands, and hunting species to extinction, for many millennia, probably from the onset of short-term thinking. Then we move on. I think this explains the extraordinary migration of the human race out of Africa, all over the planet, on foot. We use up one ecosystem, we move to the next. Sometimes the ecosystem we leave behind recovers (or somewhat recovers); more often it does not. Virtually every civilization we've created--at least the ones with cities, armies and ships--has been built on deforestation, and has risen and fallen on the abundance and then depletion of wood, used both for energy (vast forests lost to metallurgy and glass-making, as well as heat) and construction. And when forests are felled, the fertile topsoil of the lowlands washes out to sea and is lost. North Africa, the Middle East, Greece, large parts of Asia (all of China)--the same story. Coal mining is very, very recent, as a basic energy source--and gas and nukes even more recent, all big polluters. We are still destroying forests--at a phenomenal rate--while now we're filling the air with pollutants that forests could absorb (some of it anyway), if we left forests alone.

It is the consensus of all the big E groups that, at the current rate of consumption/destruction of earth's natural resources, we have 50 years to the death of the planet.

We are showing very little sign of recognizing how dire our circumstances are, or doing anything about it. About 25% of this consumption/destruction is caused by the U.S. alone, and, with the Bush junta, we're not going to reverse course any time soon. We're going to do resource wars instead--creating even more consumption/destruction.

It's probable that even with massive, worldwide efforts to stabilize the climate, restore forest biomass and restore soils and related biodiversity, we cannot reverse the dramatic decline of our planetary environment. The decline has occurred extremely fast--over the last 100 years alone, due to the massive growth of earth-altering technology and industrial development. Prior environmental destruction was localized and limited. Now it's global. We can't cut forests down fast enough--in Canada, Siberia, Asia and the Amazon--all the remaining remote places--to feed our gigantic, global industrial machine, which is STILL using wood to build ordinary housing projects (at an incredible rate), and other construction. In Brazil, the problem is the population's need for ag land--they are cutting down and burning off huge swaths of irreplaceable tropical rainforest, converting them to farms for one generation of farming (because of the nature of the fragile soil) and then ranches. Those forests--like those of North Africa, the Middle East, Greece, and China--will never grow back. Other deforested areas--middle Europe, England, the eastern U.S., the Pacific northwest--will never be the same. The thick protective canopies are gone; species diversity has been wiped out. The story is the same everywhere that human civilization has gotten--or is now getting--highly organized, industrial and into global free piracy.

Environmentalists and the wise elders of certain indigenous tribes say that we must learn to respect and revere the earth and live in harmony. But we are NOT learning. Well, we ARE becoming more educated and aware. Poll Americans and 80% to 90% say they want strong environmental regulation, but we have been unable to control the economic system of maximum exploitation for short-term profit. And that system has now even taken away our right to vote--with the new electronic voting systems run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled largely by two Bushite corporations, Diebold and ES&S, and, if you think they're not using this capability--achieved in the 2001-2004 period--to rig our elections to favor resource wars, resource extraction and global corporate profiteering, then you are very naive.

They've had to take special measures to disempower and disenfranchise Americans, because we have so much potential power to regulate and even de-charter and dismantle US-based global corporate predators. So much of the problem is US-based, and, with our democratic institutions and traditions, and our theoretical sovereignty as a people, we were actually making headway on the environmental front. Many grass roots civil groups were also beginning to rebel--against global environmental destruction and anti-human sweatshops and other manifestations of fascist economics (that's what the Seattle 1999 protests were about--50,000 people in the streets, shutting down the World Trade Organization meeting). So they had to find better mechanisms to control us--thus the new voting machines (brought to you by the two biggest crooks in Congress, Tom Delay and Bob Ney).*

But the story of planetary decline is worldwide. In Venezuela and Brazil, for instance, where they now have representative, democratic, leftist governments (via TRANSPARENT elections), those governments are in an economic vise with regard to natural resources and environmental destruction. They have vast poor populations--impoverished by the rich elite and desperately oppressed by past U.S.-supported dictatorships--who want food, housing, land, education, infrastructure, public works, energy and water systems, and all the supports of modern industrial development to improve their lives--and they have natural resources in abundance, the coin of development. Venezuela is giving land back to indigenous tribes, for instance, but not the mineral rights. The conflict between saving the planet and improving the lives of vast poor populations is acute (or seems so--new thinking is needed, regarding what wealth really is).

Then you have scams like the Forest Stewardship Council--which has basically been taken over by the banks and timber interests--putting a phony "green label" on the destruction of the last virgin forests, FOOLING people that, with 80% of the world's forests damaged or entirely destroyed over the last 100 years, we can log the last of it "sustainably."

Bottom-line, we either migrate into the solar system and beyond--and learn terraforming--or our species itself will die out, for having trashed its own home.

-----------------

*Throw Diebold, ES&S and all election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. Probably the best way to save it is to leave it...
OK, hear me out before you get defensive, but, if you think about it, we humans end up destroying the natural habitats all over the planet, we threaten the very existence of the entire biosphere just for existing within it. I imagine a future where people will abandon the planet, leave it alone, for all intents and purposes, and it will return to a more "natural" state. There are more resources we can exploit off planet than on it, and we don't have to worry too much about disrupting other biospheres for a long time. If we discover other biospheres either under the surface of Mars or in the Oceans of Europa or other moons, we could simply leave them alone. Besides that, its doubtful that, let's say Mars' biosphere consists of anything more complicated that oceanic krill on Earth, Europa's may actually be more complicated. Even odder, just for your information, we actually now have the technology to economically leave the planet, or we will within the decade at least(We invented the materials, they are EXPENSIVE right now), and we had the technology to LIVE off planet for at least 20 years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
28. "Corresponding Super-USA's President at 34% Approval Rating."
And dropping like a super rock!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Brooklyn Michael Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
29. "Astronomers OGLE Heavenly Bodies"
....that's what the headline should've said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skip fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. It's sadly ironic that we are just now actually discovering new worlds
while we might be heading toward (or stepping over?) the ecological point-of-no-return of our own. Will we be waving our extra-solar planetary neighbors good-bye before we have a chance to even get to know the neighborhood well? I hope not, but perhaps it will be so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
plasticsundance Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
36. If you're impressed with the Hubble telescope
Check out the Spitzer Space Telescope.

http://search.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_101_sirtf.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/3332537.stm

http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/Media/releases/ssc2003-06/visuals.shtml

I remember reading somewhere that earth like planets would be found on the same perimeter as Earth is located in the Milky Way, because the way a galaxy distributes material as a galaxy develops the process of star creation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC