Northwest bets you'll pay for legroom

[shugah]

Northwest bets you'll pay for legroom
For $15, travelers can get once-free aisle, exit choices
March 14, 2006

If you're willing to stretch your wallet a little bit, Northwest Airlines will let you stretch your legs.

Today, Detroit Metro Airport's dominant carrier will start asking passengers whether they'd pay $15 to secure a coach seat in a handful of seats -- in an exit row or on an aisle -- on most of its domestic flights. As Northwest tests reaction to the program, it could consider raising the premium on certain routes or expand it to more seats.

~snip~

When a passenger checks in, the traveler will be given the option to pay an extra $15 for an assigned seat on an aisle or in an exit row, keep their assigned seat or choose another seat without a fee.

The airline will put about 5% of seats on most of its domestic flights up for sale. The rest will remain as free seat assignments.

Exit row seats on Northwest's planes can offer as much as 10 inches of extra legroom. Leaders at Northwest who designed the seat-payment program say it's difficult to determine what to charge passengers for -- and how they'll react.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006603140365

[saigon68]

1. They can kiss my ass

I hope they go bankrupt

OOPS THEY ALREADY DID THAT

[DuaneBidoux]

23. twice?

[saigon68]

24. Once for each Cheek

[Puglover]

2. Yeah...what a creative bunch of execs...

:eyes:

[DRoseDARs]

3. Northwest bets wrong as far as this passenger is concerned... n/t

[wakeme2008]

4. I know United's Ted already has

a couple rows at the front of their planes with expanded legroom they charge like $35 for. They do not have First Class, so the seats are the same as coach.

I tried it once but probably will not do it again.

[Gormy Cuss]

17. United has effectively done same by calling it 'Economy Plus.'

The Economy Plus section usually begins at the entry door and ends after the exit row on 757s. And they wonder why they're losing business.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. Actually, I like Economy Plus

It kept me sane on the 13-hour flight from O'Hare to Kansai International in Japan.

I've always said that I'd pay extra for more leg room, and I have. I bought a year's worth of Economy Plus privileges last August. I'll be flying to Japan again in June, and then to England in August, so I'll get my money's worth.

I don't understand Northwest's plan, though. What if all the aisle seats have already been reserved by people who reserved early? That's what usually happens. I know the bulkhead and exit row seats are usually reserved for high-level frequent flyers, and on their forums, they're upset that just any old body can walk up and get those seats for $25.

[Gormy Cuss]

50. I like the idea of more leg room in coach, but I'd prefer they reset the

seats to a pre-deregulation configuration --- imagine seats that aligned to windows and that's the way it used to be back in the 1970s when I first flew. Economy Plus is a dog for Untied (sic) and they keep trying to find ways to make it work rather than just giving up. I can see the advantage for very long prices but on the transcon flights that I take regularly the seats have been occupied by people who had free upgrades for the most part (I've had a few myself.)

This dog-eat-dog approach to coach has got to be backfiring. Why not simply narrow the band of prices charged? The old load alogorithms for pricing just don't make sense in today's airline world. I just lost elite status and doubt that I'll get it back this year because I'm not flying United if there's a cheaper or even equivalent pricing with better scheduling. They've worn me down. I give up.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. Yes, the whole pricing system is ridiculous. Imagine if city buses

operated like that:

"The bus is 50 cents if you decide you're going to ride three weeks in advance, and $2.00 if you decide 3 days in advance, but if you decide to ride at the last minute, it's $5.00. On the other hand, if you pay $5.00, there's an off-chance that you'll get to sit up in the cushy seats just behind the driver, which ordinarily cost $20.00. Otherwise, your $5.00 seat will be exactly like the 50 cent seats. Now sometimes we'll keep the prepaid price at $2.00 or $3.00 if you try to ride the bus on Thanksgiving. If you ride 100 times, you get a free 50 cent ride, unless the bus is already full of other 50 cent riders."

That IS how airlines work, isn't it?

[matcom]

5. I bet I won't

i also bet i'll never fly Northwest again

[0007]

48. I'll avoid Northwest like the plague

But how long will until the other airlines follow suit?

[meegbear]

6. Then I'll take the window seat, thanks

[0007]

7. Me too! Is the leg room for the CEO's retirement fund?

[Richard D]

8. Personally . . .

. . . at 6'2", I'd gladly pay 15.00 or even a bit more for a guaranteed exit row or bulkhead seat.

[pitohui]

34. but it isn't $15, the reporter got it wrong

it's $15 per leg, so it's $60 on most round-trips

and your seat is still not guaranteed, the FA always has final word over whether you are allowed to remain in an exit row

[patcox2]

9. Once you go first class, it spoils you forever.

Its enough to make this slacker ambitious, just to make sure I can always fly first class.

If you work at it, if you watch for specials, you can sometimes get first class tickets for reasonable prices. I have done that a few times. Otherwise, I would never be able to do it except that my wife flys for business so much we are almost always able to use her miles for upgrades.

[Tracer]

10. Oh, I agree!

Once, while flying back from Florida, there was some kind of ticket mixup. The stewardess came down the aisle and INSISTED that me and my two children go up front to first class.

I said, "No, no, we're fine here" (since I certainly hadn't purchased first-class seats!). But she wouldn't take no for an answer.

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, we marched up front -- and enjoyed the wide leather seats, the lunch, and the attention.

My one and only time.

[cyr330]

26. Tell me about it

I travelled cross country first class from San Francisco last summer, courtesy of my brother's frequent flier miles. My one and only time, and probably my last, as I don't want to be the one paying for it myself! It DID spoil me to be able to stretch my legs and sleep comfortably for once.

[tammywammy]

53. I agree

I flew business class round trip from DFW to London a few years ago. I won't do another long flight in coach. Coach wasn't bad from DFW to San Francisco, but then again we were both sleeping on the flight out and had an exit row on the way back.

[Sabriel]

11. What's next? $20 for fabric covers for the metal seat frames?

How much more can they nickel and dime flyers? It's no wonder I quit flying.

[KansDem]

14. And $5 more for clean glasses and unopened peanut bags. (eom)

[MadMaddie]

25. Don't forget our hard earned Tax Payer money went to the

airlines to bail them out after 9/11.

The reason I say this is because they had the opportunity and choice to strengthen the cockpit doors for 20 years prior to 9/11. They went on the cheap and look what the result was...

[Eurobabe]

12. Exit row seat are HORRIBLE you can't recline

Airlines can kiss my ass. Keep the peanuts too!

[llmart]

19. You don't get peanuts any more on Northworst Airlines......

unless you want to pay a dollar for a bag of them.

[Beausoir]

37. Yep. Just flew NWA on a 4 hour flight.

They want a buck for a bag of peanuts. No way. Everyone has started to bring their own meals on board. Hope NWA likes paying for the extra man hours needed to dispose of all the extra trash left onboard.
Terrible airline...really. They are just awful.

[Bill McBlueState]

47. oh, but they renamed it!

Now it's a "trail-mix like snack," so you feel better about forking over a buck for a little bag of nuts.

I hope someone gets hungry and starts eating the seat upholstery. NWA deserves it.

[jayfish]

21. Exit Row Passengers Should...

be paid $15. Not the other way around. Exit row passengers are in effect 1st responders in the event of a mishap.

Jay

[pitohui]

35. they aren't charging for the ones that don't recline

they are charging for the best exit row seats that do recline, it is a scam, they are then holding back the lousy exit row seats and using this to claim that elites still have access to "some" exit row seats for free

this is an insult to the intelligence of the frequent flyer, they must think we're stupid

[primavera]

13. Damn, the headline had me there for a second...

For a minute, I thought they might actually be reducing the number of total seats in order to provide passengers with a more comfortable flight, not just find a way to charge people extra for what they already get without additional charge. Sheesh, am I naive or what!

[Hawkeye-X]

15. I fly Jetblue

Plenty of legroom. CEO is a true-blue Dem! (Just wish they'd start offering more flights)

[Mithras61]

16. Legroom? How about...

enough hip/shoulder room? I haven't flown in any airline that had adequate space for me (I'm a bit bigger than normal - I'm 320# and wear a 56 jacket) in coach or business class (I usually refer to it as "cattle" class). I can't even sit up straight in a seat in coach if there's an adult next to me (and although I admit I'm fat, the same held true 20+ years ago when I weighed in at 185# and wore a 52 jacket). First Class is as close to comfortable as it gets for me on an airplane, but there are times when even THAT luxury seems a bit snug (try putting two guys like me side-by-side... it leaves no shoulder room for either of us). I ALWAYS opt for a row with three seats & 2 passengers if possible, and if not, I put my 5-yo daughter next to me.

[BiggJawn]

18. Next? $10 to go piss. $20 if you want the pot empty.

"Flying cattle cars"

[IdaBriggs]

20. My husband and I will pay it for him. He's 6'3". Sigh.

Doesn't sound like we'll get to sit next to each other anymore. sniff.

[pitohui]

36. you'll pay $60 more for him not $15

i suggest you not encourage this, or else be prepared to pay $60 extra on every round-trip flight forevermore

we can all make this go away if we simply refuse to buy into it

[northzax]

22. best part is, I get it for free

at 6'5", I cannot put my feet on the floor in a middle or window seat on most planes (United is ok for the middle and window) and there is a little known FAA regulation that states you have to have your feet on the floor (otherwise, in case of an accident, people can't get past you). It's a safety issue.

[pnwmom]

27. How do you put your feet on the floor in the aisle seat? n/t

[pnwmom]

28. Just a reminder to everyone to wiggle your legs and walk around as

much as possible. On a recent coast to coast flight, I didn't move around as much as I should (took a nap) -- and, sure enough, ended up with deep vein thrombosis. Otherwise known as "economy class syndrome." Spent a week in the hospital, which is a big deal these days. No fun at all.

[northzax]

29. I can spread my knees

putting one in the aisle. and, of course, spread my legs into the aisle if need be.

[taught_me_patience]

30. This is symbolic

of the economic classification of America in general. Soon, half the plane will be for 10 first class passengers and the rest of us will be herded like sheep into the back of the plane.

[onager]

31. Just flew Untied coast-to-coast, First Class...

I was not overly impressed. The seats were bigger and more comfortable, and I had more legroom. Other than that, nothing special.

Flying Lufthansa Business Class to/from Egypt has probably spoiled me. Lufthansa BC has the big Recaro seats that not only lie down to make a bed, but even include a built-in "Magic Fingers" massage thingy. (Virgin Atlantic trumps that, or at least they used to, by having an actual human masseuse on board the plane.)

OTOH, when you're spending about 16 hours flying, you need all the comfort you can get. (4-5 hrs. from Cairo to Frankfurt, 10-11 hrs. from Frankfurt to the US.)

On my last flight a couple weeks ago, I started out with a window seat and a seatmate. But the nice flight attendant in Frankfurt asked if I wanted a row to myself, in the middle. Received a few dirty looks from people who didn't get the same offer, but I can live with that.

This Friday I'm flying back to Egypt again, from LAX.

[IdaBriggs]

32. I love Egypt. We were just there in November for vacation.

May I ask what you go back and forth for? I want to go back again very much! :)

[onager]

41. Work

I spent most of the past year in Egypt, mostly living in Alexandria with occasional trips to Cairo. I love Alexandria. It's right on the Mediterranean. Mostly small enough to get around in easily, except in summer when the population of 3.5 million increases by a million or so local tourists most days.

I'm a History Geek and Alexandria has plenty of it--from Alexander The Great, to the Ptolemies, Caesar/Antony/Cleopatra, right on thru to the 20th century with E.M. Forster's and Lawrence Durrell's writings on the place. Durrell's favorite restaurant, Pastroudis, is still open for business every day! The Elite Pastry Shop downtown is still managed by a 90-yr-old Greek lady who knew many of the local writers and poets personally during Alexandria's heyday.

It also helps that Alexandria, being an outward-looking city on the Med, is the most liberal and tolerant city in Egypt. Though certainly not as liberal as in Forster's day, when Rue de Soeurs featured a parade of female prostitutes on one side of the street and male prostitutes on the other. And when the poet Constantine Cavafy lived in Rue Lepsius above a famous local brothel, earning the street the nickname "Rue Clapsius."

OK, I've ranted enough. Sorry, I get carried away!

I'm glad you loved the place, and hope you return. My job has taken me all over the world, and I believe Egyptians are the most hospitable folks I've ever met. It's a shock when a poor highway worker tries to give you half his lunch, or a little girl rips her orange in half and tries to give it to you. Things like that happen to me ALL the time.

[IdaBriggs]

43. We visited Alexandria for a day to see the Catacombs, etc.

We had lunch in a wonderful restaurant overlooking the Med right near the fortress. It was one of the few times we ended up in a public political discussion -- my husband was off taking pictures, and my mother and I were enjoying the view (at the fortress). A small horde of school children overheard us speaking English, and we were immediately surrounded as they all began "practicing" their English on us. ("Hello. How are you? How old are you?" They didn't understand the answers, but they were so proud to be asking the questions!) My mother and I spent a delightful time with them; their teachers asked the same question ALL Egyptians were asking us that trip:

"How are Muslims treated in America?"

We assured them Muslims are our brothers and sisters, and are treated well, and one of the teachers made it clear that "they love America and Americans". Another man overheard this, and said "NO! We hate America! Bush is Evil!" The teacher immediately corrected him ("Americans good -- Bush EVIL!") and of course I jumped right on board with that one. Once everyone was in agreement that Bush is EVIL, we socialized with the children some more, and then left for lunch.

I envy you your time over there; I'm also a history geek (as are my husband and mother), and there simply wasn't time to see and do everything (but we tried). Cairo was incredible, the Nile was breathtaking, the pyramids beyond amazing, and the people --- the PEOPLE WERE THE BEST!!! Our guides and our driver and the gentleman who was in charge of our tour quite simply spoiled us for anything less than Egyptian hospitality!!!

I want to go back soon....:)

[onager]

49. I bet you ate at the Fish Market!

i.e., the restaurant on the water near Quitbay Fort. Some Alexandrians swear it's the best seafood restaurant in the city. I'm still trying to eat at all of them so I have a basis for comparison. :-)

It's also a lot of fun to walk around that part of the city and buy a fresh fish from the street vendors. They will cook up it up for you on the spot, and toss it in a big cardboard cone with fries (and falafel, if you want).

Your encounter with the school kids is pretty typical of my experiences.

One time I went thru Quitbay Fort with a great tour guide, a Muslim woman. A gaggle of little girls stopped us and asked those same questions you described. They also wanted me to take their picture.

A few minutes later we came up on the girls and some parental units. One of the kids was chattering away in Arabic, and my tour guide started cracking up. She said the girl was saying, "Mom! We met an American!" In sort of the same terms you would use to describe meeting a Martian.

I spent 2 years in Saudi Arabia, where I could get arrested for taking pictures of Muslim females. So Egypt is a real nice difference, in that respect. Groups of teen girls in Alexandria will often stop me and ask me to take their picture. And they are definitely Muslim. They're wearing the hijab (head-covering).

You're absolutely right about their feelings toward Americans, too. They love us, but hate the idiots in the mAdministration. I get an earful about Dim-son every day from my Egyptian co-workers.

[Atmashine]

51. Wow that's really neat

The world would be really nice if we all acted like that.

[rocktivity]

45. A flight attendant rescued me from sitting between TWO people with babies

I honestly didn't mind because they were both behaving themselves. But I accepted the offer of a seat change in deference to the eleventh commandment: "Thou shalt not push thy luck."

:headbang:
rocknation

[pitohui]

33. for $60 you mean

read the article, the reporter apparently is incapable of simple mathematics

it is $15 per leg, since northwest has a hub system, unless you live in a hub, you have to make a connection, that is $30 extra each way

this is a way to get around truth in advertising laws and also to get around the search engines, there is a fraudulent appearance made that you'll pay one price, then you actually try to buy the ticket and find out that food and even snacks are extra, exit rows are extra, and so on

they are even charging extra for middle seats in the exit row

can you imagine?

$60 to be stuck in the middle between two other large people who have to buy the exit row seats?

it's a deal-breaker for me and my 50,000-plus (well, way more than that this year) miles of travel and business ea. year will be going to another airline, i'm still going over my options but the two i'm looking at both have better schedules for central/south american anyways and prob. would suit me better, you can't take away a major elite benefit like first pick orf the good seats and not expect your frequent flyers to explore other options -- and in the process of protesting plenty of us are going to find out that a competitor might serve us better

northwest has done some stupid things but this one takes the cake! they are shit-canning repeat business to make a one-time "gotcha" of the larger or taller infrequent flyer

[DancingBear]

38. This is why I no longer fly much

I'm old enough to remember stewardesses (yep, that's what they were back then) in high heels, full meal service, smoking(!) sections and seats that humans could actually fit in.

Now, it's a Greyhound Bus with wings. I no longer fly for business anymore (thank goodness) and when we fly long distances we always make it a series of smaller flights, as my back and legs cramp up in what passes for seats these days. When we go really long distances (like overseas) we usually use the credit card miles to bump to First Class - not so much for the "clientele" (believe me, I wouldn't throw a life jacket to most people I've met up there) but rather for the extra room.

BTW, don't most of you immediately check for the OCB (Obligatory Crying Baby) while you're waiting to board?

'Fess up - I know you do.

[LibDemAlways]

57. That baby is always seated either directly in front

of or behind me. When I flew to Hawaii last summer I listened to crying babies in stereo - in front and behind.

I hadn't flown any long distance in several years and was surprised by how crappy the entire experience was. No food, two passes with the drink cart tended to by a surly woman who treated every passenger as though he or she was a royal pain in the ass, "entertainment" that consisted of an old Seinfeld episode and a grade z movie about a teenaged ice skater, and absolutely no legroom. I'm 5'3 and felt like a sardine. I can't even imagine the agony a tall person goes through.

All this after suffering the humiliation of being treated like a terror suspect by the TSA. All a far cry from the much more pleasant, humane air travel of decades ago.

[RebelOne]

39. I much prefer a window seat.

I like to see the plane take off and land.

[Sgent]

40. This is kinda weird

It will take some time to see how (or if) this impacts NWA's FF flyer program.

To those who are not really familiar with NW, they have (probably) the worst first class service of any of the old line carriers. However, they have a LOT of them since the airplane configurations they use provide a greater than normal amount of fc seats / economy seats. They are still much better seats than any economy seat on aother airline. This means 2 things:

1) Free FC upgrades on NW are fairly easy to get. If you fly more than 25k miles / year (or 20 legs), you will probably get upgraded for free on 60+% of your flights. Depends on route.

2) Their FC seats are comparitively cheap. They have a "Biz First Rate" which means that anyone buying a full fare coach ticket automatically gets upgraded.

3) You can often upgrade at the gate for $25-$50. For the trip.

*All of the above applies to Domestic flights only -- international is a completely different.

[pitohui]

46. west coast elite are talking en masse defections

upgrades are easy for some of us, and some of us almost always fly in first class anyway

however, elite on the west coast, even plats, say that they rarely get upgraded because there are so many of them

therefore the primary benefit of elite status -- the best coach seats, such as row 27 on the 757-300 have been blocked off for sale

they will lose the west coast elites who will no longer bother w. elite status and who will shop strictly on the low price

stupid stupid stupid

[Initech]

44. Further reason why I dont like Northwest that much

I'd much rather go with the far superior Continental. Or maybe Delta.

[TankLV]

52. They lose.

Pay more when they don't even give out meals anymore - just a third of a stale subway turkey sandwich?

I don't think so.

They can kiss my ass.

[confludemocrat]

54. I need my aisle seat. so a weak bladder costs ya $15? That sucks.

Luckily I'm Elite for another year at least.

[Tight_rope]

56. I bet I won't...Never flew Northwest and now I never will! Thanks!