Doctor: Teen didn't die because of sickle cell (FL Youth Boot Camp)

[soup]

After observing the second autopsy of the youth who died after a boot camp beating, he contradicts the initial finding.

By KEVIN GRAHAM
Published March 14, 2006

TAMPA - A high-profile doctor hired to observe the second autopsy of 14-year-old Martin Lee Anderson went on national television Monday night and said the teen did not die of sickle cell trait, contradicting the first medical examiner's findings.

Dr. Michael Baden gave Fox News' host Greta Van Susteren the only public statement that emerged after the 12-hour autopsy of the teen who died after a beating by guards at a Panama City boot camp.

Hillsborough County Medical Examiner Vernard Adams, who conducted the autopsy, released no information about what he found Monday.

Shortly after the autopsy ended at 9:30 p.m., attorneys for the boy's family said results would remain secret until an 8 a.m. news conference today.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/03/14/Tampabay/Doctor__Teen_didn_t_d.shtml

[bullimiami]

1. no shit.

[soup]

2. I know, I know.

:(

But it's going to take some doing to find any justice, and this is the start.

>> "My baby was beaten, tortured and killed in a boot camp," the teen's mother, Gina Jones, said before the autopsy. "All I want is justice for the ones that are responsible."

She said the guards who beat her son should be punished. So, Jones said, should the nurse, who appeared to be standing by and doing nothing.

"She could have stopped it," Jones said.<<


Press conference just ended.

No specifics determined yet. Dr. opinion is - 'what you saw on those tapes were the cause of death'.


personal note: and I'm with you..... "no shit".

[hang a left]

41. The coverup of this is almost as dispicable as the act. nt

[laruemtt]

3. what the hell

is a 14-year-old doing in boot camp?!! and how does beating to death translate to death from sickle cell? what am i missing here?!

[soup]

4. The simple one word answer is 'Florida'.

If you'd like, I can post some of the original articles I have saved.

That's a bad headline -

It was a juvenile detention boot camp.

My apologies. headline corrected for clarity.

[laylah]

27. They have bootcamps in Iowa

also. I know, I just quit one. While I have never seen the kind of treatment that boy encountered in FloriDUH, I have seen things I did not like and spoke up about them. Needless to say, I was not a real "popular" kinda gal.

Jenn

[vptpt]

5. It wasn't an actual boot camp

It was one of those places where they send teens to scare them straight or whatever.

[laruemtt]

7. well what kind of idiots

would beat a 14-year-old to try to "scare him straight"? when it doesn't kill, like it did this time, it just teaches more violence. i am so sick of stupid people having control over anybody, especially young helpless ones!

[soup]

12. The kind who say things like this

"If I can't make a kid puke or piss in his pants on his first day, I'm not doing my job." - A youth trainer at a juvenile facility
http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm

--

and it doesn't work.

Boot camp grads often arrested again

Of the 740 youths who went through the Pinellas County camp between late 1993 and late 2005, 666 were arrested later and 607 were convicted of a crime.

By ABHI RAGHUNATHAN
Published March 10, 2006

Nine of every 10 youths who have gone through the Pinellas County boot camp were arrested again later, a new study by the Sheriff's Office says.

The Sheriff's Office, which runs the boot camp, tracked the criminal record of the 740 youths who went through the camp between late 1993 and late 2005. The Sheriff's Office found that 666 were arrested again, and that 607 of them were convicted of some type of crime.

Sheriff Jim Coats said he was disappointed by those figures, but he has not given up on the boot camp. He is considering asking the Pinellas County Commission for money to set up a new residential facility that could house some boot camp graduates after they finish the program, so they don't go back to the neighborhoods where they first committed crimes.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/03/10/Tampabay/Boot_camp_grads_often.shtml

--

They murdered this child. pure and simple. Then tried to cover their asses with the lame 'sickle cell trait' as the cause of death, not the brutality.

[saigon68]

45. Like the dog Handlers at Abu Ghraib who motivated the inmates to

SHIT AND PISS THEMSELVES

FORT MEADE, Md. Mar 14, 2006 (AP)— An Army dog handler charged with abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib said he was competing with another canine team to frighten detainees into soiling themselves, another soldier testified at the man's court-martial Tuesday.

The testimony on the second day of the trial was the most damaging evidence the government has presented against Sgt. Michael J. Smith.

Sgt. John H. Ketzer, who worked as an interrogator at the prison, testified that he followed the sounds of screaming to a cell where Smith's black Belgian shepherd was straining against its leash and barking at two cowering teenagers in a part of the prison reserved for juveniles and women.

Ketzer said Smith laughed as he told Ketzer shortly thereafter, "My buddy and I are having a contest to see if we can get them to (defecate on) themselves because we've already had some (urinate on) themselves."
(snip/...)


"SUPPORT THE TROOPS-- THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM" the chimp

[noonwitch]

10. Not all of these programs are bad

We have a good one in Michigan, in the thumb area. The kids get individualized counseling and educational services, in addition to the boot camp aspect, which is about building up their bodies and minds, not just about teaching them to obey the rules. Nobody gets beat up, and it is run by a private, non-profit agency, not the police. The kids learn some building skills, too, and spend time camping in the woods near the end of their stay. They also get to play basketball and other sports.

In this case, these guards beat that kid to death. I saw that video, it's pretty obvious.

Florida doesn't have the same standards as other states in a lot of ways-elections, children's services, schools, prisons, etc.

[vptpt]

14. You're right, there are some good ones

One of my friends in high school was sent to one. They mainly camped and learned to work together as a team. I would say it was successful and made a good change in him. There needs to be a way to evaluate these programs, poor information has to be the way these "boot camps" stay afloat. I'm sure no parent says, "Maybe we should send our child to that camp, the one where kids are beaten all the time."

[Sgent]

28. This was a public camp -- not a private one

Its my understanding that this was a diversion program setup by the Juvenille Detention program in Flordia -- and run by the state (or a state hired contractor). The kid was sentanced (or took a pretrial diversion) to the program -- his parents didn't select it.

[vptpt]

35. Florida sucks

No offense to people who live in Florida, but I lived there myself. There are so many things about that state that are all screwed up. Did Noelle Bush ever have to go to a camp like that, or any of the other Bush kids down in Florida? Didn't think so.

[saigon68]

48. A criminal governor runs Florida

Like a plantation

[jwirr]

37. I agree, all social programs, even prisons are only as good as

the people who administer and work in it. If Florida is hiring thugs for these programs then they will not work. Michigan obviously understands that. Before we put thumbs down on all boot camps we should realize that the alternative was once prisons with older offenders.

[saigon68]

31. ITS LAW & ORDER NEOCON STYLE

Those Pesky Black and Brown Minorities better shut up OR DIE </SARCASM>

[GOPFighter]

6. Anyone who saw the footage of the beating...

...will not be surprised.

I cannot get this incident out of my mind. I boil with anger every time I think about this poor kid being beaten by adults with a nurse passively standing by.

Why do we send young black kids who have done relatively minor crimes to boot camps like this and send white collar criminals like Ken Lay, who have screwed literally thousands of people out of their pensions and savings, to "country club" prisons? I just want to know why we never see or hear of rich white guys getting beaten to the point of death in prison? Actually, I'm just pissed at how we treat poor people in this country.

We will never stop the torturing of prisoners in Iraq until we first solve the torture of prisoners in our own prisons!

[theHandpuppet]

13. It's because in this money-worshipping society...

... poverty is considered to be a moral failing. Truly, I've seen this attitude reflected even here on DU. How many times do you see posts ridiculing poor people -- the way they dress, talk, the houses they live in? In one of the most recent examples, among the threads on the Alabama arson case, I saw many a post assuming the perps were poor white trash, even some mocking cartoons of "deliverance" type hillbillies. As it turned out the perps were young college jerks from privileged families. It was their victims who were poor.

This is the kind of mindset that painted victims of Katrina, the majority of whom were black and poor, as to blame for their own victimization according to too many in this country. We paid the 9-11 victims' families millions in compensation, call them heroes and build memorials in their honor, and yet Katrina victims still have no place to live. Months later, their dead are still being retreived from the ruins of their homes, their families still separated or missing.

When you look around at the difference in the way rich and poor are treated in this country, there's little wonder why there is such a disparity in justice for rich and poor. THAT is the moral disgrace.

[vptpt]

15. Thank you handpuppet

My feelings exactly.

[saigon68]

40. ITS A MONEY WORSHIPPING SOCIETY

Kozlowski had become a symbol of corporate excess, with the tabloid press revelling in the details of his misuse of company funds, such as spending 15,000 dollars on a "dog umbrella stand" and 6,000 dollars on a shower curtain.

The first trial jury was also shown a video of a two-million-dollar toga party -- half of it funded by Tyco -- that Kozlowski threw for his wife on the Italian island of Sardinia.

[enlightenment]

26. You might want to read the Partridge essay on the

DU home page today (the Crisis Papers). He does a pretty good job of answering your question.

[donkeyotay]

29. Our nation's sadistic tendencies have gained renewed legitimacy

since the "everything's changed, whatever it takes, dead-or-alive" commander in chief stole office. Whether beating prisoners here or performing frat pranks there, it's part of the same GOP philosophy finally unleashed from bleeding heart liberalism.

Power corrupts. There was a famous study done on a campus that showed regular students turning sadistic after they took on the role of guards. Our whole nation is developing the same syndrome.

[jwirr]

38. I think the were "nurses" standby in Hitler death camps also.

[hang a left]

42. Yeah and people like Cunningham get to select their

"Club-Fed"

[wickerwoman]

44. A tiny nitpick...

"we" didn't send him there- his parents did. Voluntarily. So I don't think Ken Lay really comes into the picture.

On the other hand, I think that it's sad that our country has lost so much persective and become so punative and out of control. Places like this "teen boot camp" shouldn't exist in the first place. They don't in many civilized nations. I'll never forget the scene in Bowling for Columbine where they interview the sherriff in the town where the six year old boy shot a classmate. He said he was getting mail from people who wanted to try a *six year old* as an adult. People out there thought the death penalty was appropriate.

We just seemed trapped in this whirlwind of escalating violence and fewer and fewer people seem able to step back and take a deep breath.

[RebelOne]

8. It is now 8:40 am.

What about the news conference at 8 a.m.? Does anyone have any info?

[soup]

9. only caught a bit of it.

Here's my really sketchy notes-

LYINGSACKOFSHITSONOFABITCH seibert (original ME) considering changing his results.

new autopsy took 13 hours to complete - NO sickle celling.

no third autopsy expected.

No specifics determined yet. Dr opinion is 'what you saw on tapes were the cause of death'.

'Nobody is above the law. difficult to hold police accountable.' family's attorney says 'we will stay the course to find justice for this child'.


Should be up here soon:
http://www.baynews9.com/Home.html

[entanglement]

11. It was MURDER plain and simple

Massive attempt at cover-up by fascist thug FL cops. Murderers.

[keopeli]

16. Autopsy Results Revealed (FL bootcamp beating death)

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2006/3/14/148393.html

A news conference held Tuesday morning in Tampa confirmed that 14-year-old Martin Anderson did not die as a result of sickle cell trait or from natural causes.

The announcement first came from forensic pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden, Monday night on national television. Anderson's family requested Baden take part in the 12 hour autopsy. Baden did observe the autopsy, but because he is not licensed in the state of Florida, he could only watch the examination and offer input, not physically perform it.

"Martin did not die of natural causes," Baden said. "What you see on the tape is what happened. That kind of take down, that kind of boot camp interaction has to be carefully looked at."

"I'm glad the truth finally came out," Anderson's mother said. "I knew what the truth was. I'm glad I made the right decision to pull my baby up, which I didn't want to, just to get the truth out. Now that the truth is out, I want justice. I want the guards and the nurse to be arrested. It's time now."

[bullimiami]

17. its called manslaughter and a coverup.

but in jeb world these monsters will probably not be prosecuted.

[jojo54]

18. The woman in that video was a nurse???? WTF???

I guess she was there to let the guards know when enough was enough?!?!

And I don't want to hear anything about how the boy "threatened" or "fought back" or "mouthed off" or anything of the sort. I hope they all (the guards and nurse) rot in hell.

[0007]

20. Could you direct me to the video?

[jojo54]

23. Here's another link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Scroll down almost half way and on the left are the video's. Watch the whole video and see how the boy is sagging under his own weight after being beaten, and how very, very unconscious he is when placed on the gurney.

[soup]

25. Thank you, jojo54.

Keep 'timing out' here. darn dial-up connection.

I remember there were two versions.

The murder of this child took about 1 and 1/2 hours. One tape that was released was about 20 minutes long, and the other was about 6 minutes.

--

A gut-wrenching description of the contents of the tape here:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13826621.htm

--

Finally got one to open -

20 minute video available here - WARNING - this is Brutal:
http://www1.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI15818/

[RT_Fanatic]

47. I just watched this MSNBC video

and Matt Lauer is such a friggin' DOUCHEBAG!

[keopeli]

19. Is this video available? Does anyone have a link?

[soup]

22. video link

Not sure if this is the shortened version, or the full length video. I'm temporarily on an impossibly slow dial-up connection, and it's buffering buffering buffering...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/16/national/main1325807.shtml

[madrchsod]

21. it`s florida

down and outers are not worth much in florida.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. Of course he didn't die from sickle cell

It's a completely preposterous claim, contrary to everything known about sickle cell. He was beaten, and died as a result of the beating. The following people should be charged:

1) Each of the boot camp instructors who participated in the beating (manslaughter, at the very least)

2) The camp "nurse" who stood by and watched this take place (manslaughter)

3) The original coroner, who provided cover for the beating (obstruction of justice, at the very least)

This is an outrageous case.

[donkeyotay]

30. 2 crimes - the murder and the cover up

What is this, "shoot, shovel, and shut-up?" The group killing was shameful, but the group cover up is even worse. All the people involved... are these the GOP values we heard so much about? Return of morality. Adults in charge, etc. No wonder Abu Ghraib happened.

[Judi Lynn]

32. Although it didn't help bring this young man needed help, I'm very glad

Michael Baden got involved.

From the S.P. Times:

Early in the day Monday, she walked with trepidation toward the television cameras outside the medical examiner's office, then turned toward one of her attorneys. "Can I show them the pictures?" Jones asked him.

She pulled two photographs from a blue folder and held them up, side by side. The one in her left hand showed Martin, halfway smiling and posing for his mother, the day before she dropped him off at boot camp. The second picture showed how Jones said Martin ended up after just two hours there: lying in a casket.
(snip/...)

So a young man is lost forever. These idiots couldn't care less.

They should have NEVER tried to lie their ways out of this. For SHAME. Monsters.

This isn't the first vicious news we've heard from Florida, either, during _Jeb's evil reign.

[boobooday]

33. If you've seen the videotape

You know this kid died of abuse. A bunch of grown men beating on him while a NURSE stood by and just watched.

It turned my stomach. I can't believe children are being treated this way.

[pnwmom]

34. Coroner/prosecutor say sickle cell didn't kill Martin Lee Anderson

TAMPA, Florida (CNN) -- A second autopsy of Martin Lee Anderson, who died after workers at a Florida boot camp restrained and hit him, has determined that natural disease did not cause the teenager's death, a coroner announced Tuesday.

"I think we all agree he did not die of sickle trait," said Dr. Michael Baden, who was asked by Anderson's family to take part in the second autopsy, which lasted 12 hours.

The results were in contrast to the initial autopsy, which determined that the 14-year-old died of complications from sickle cell trait, which previously had not been diagnosed in the teen athlete.

Confirming the autopsy results was a spokeswoman for Hillsborough County state attorney Mark Ober, who is leading the state's investigation into Anderson's death and ordered the second autopsy.

"The preliminary findings indicate the boy did not die from sickle cell trait, nor did he die from natural causes," Pam Bondi said in the statement.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/14/bootcamp.death/

[Mithras61]

36. Doesn't "did not die from natural causes" mean either...

murder or manslaughter (it could normally be accidental death - as in misadventure, but I don't see how THAT could apply here)?

[pnwmom]

39. Certainly sounds like that to me. n/t

[Algorem]

43. Jeb Bush Jeb Bush Jeb Bush Jeb Bush Jeb Bush Jeb Bush Jeb Bush

[KayLaw]

46. Can you believe it?

He was there for only two hours. The first doctor said he just happened to die of sickle cell trait during that time. . . it's just the darndest thing!

Also, I'd like to ponder what the kid did to end up there in the first place. From what I've read, he took his grandma's car for a joyride and shoplifted some CD's. Is that accurate? If so, compared to Jeb Bush's kids, especially Noelle, Martin was a choir boy. The whole situation is maddening and sickening.